Men or Women, who has a harder life?

Surreptitious

Beyondgone wrote: »

From experience, bad move. Restaurants = Hard. You don't know what hard is till you've been backstage in a restaurant. I dipped in, saw, and left, rapido. That's manly sh1t right there. Too manly for me. I prefer just averagely manly hard. Like welding.

It was a great move, I got paid twice than what I got before and nobody gave me grief. Best thing I ever did. It might not be for the faint hearted though as smaller space and worse temperaments.

Pac1Man

Surreptitious wrote: »

I worked in a completely male dominated industry and got paid less then men for the same work.

Bullsh1t

Surreptitious

Pac1Man wrote: »

Bullsh1t

So I'm making it up am I?

pumpkin4life

Surreptitious wrote: »

So I'm making it up am I?

If you are then you should sue them for every penny they have.

Otherwise you're talking crap.

pangbang

Murrisk wrote: »

Cleaning, being a care assistant, catering - all tough jobs mostly filled by women. There are many more, I'm sure.

I did a few cleaning jobs while studying for my postgrad dip. It was full-on tiring work. Doing it full-time for a living would not be easy.

Why is it only thought that only men do tough, thankless jobs?



What a blindingly original response. You should bottle whatever it is you have going on there.

Oh I know what you mean. Like when you bothered to post in the thread topic to let everyone know you were bored of the thread topic. Yeah, never saw that anywhere before either.

Pac1Man

Surreptitious wrote: »

So I'm making it up am I?

Same role, same qualification, same experience, same hours etc. and you got payed less?

Tell me how

pangbang wrote:

See? Its not hard to come up with realistic situations.

A few things.

How is that a realistic situation?

Do you think that at odds of 46 to one that your gender is going to give you an advantage?

Do you think that the likelihood of persevering in a physical confrontation is a suitable reference point in determining which gender has it easier?


My view is that individual circumstances play a much greater point in determining life hardships than the gender of the person.

Surreptitious

Pac1Man wrote: »

Same role, same qualification, same experience, same hours etc. and you got payed less?

I got paid less then the kitchen porter in that place. So that will give you an idea.

Pac1Man

Surreptitious wrote: »

I got paid less then the kitchen porter in that place. So that will give you an idea.

That didn't answer my question though.

koumi

SGSM wrote: »

Tbh ridiculous thread and will only cause a fight between a lot of men and women.

A man is goal oriented, a woman is need oriented. Men are motivated by competition, hence the competing title of the thread. I mean it could be an educational discussion and all if it opened up healthy dialogue which helped the sexes understand each other better but there's no atari jaguar option, no poll for both have it equally difficult, or none of the above so I fail to see what it sets out to achieve other than satiating the drive to pit one against the other.

SGSM

koumi wrote:

A man is goal oriented, a woman is need oriented. Men are motivated by competition, hence the competing title of the thread. I mean it could be an educational discussion and all if it opened up healthy dialogue which helped the sexes understand each other better but there's no atari jaguar option, no poll for both have it equally difficult, or none of the above so I fail to see what it sets out to achieve other than satiating the drive to pit one against the other.

Exactly, just gonna cause arguments cos there is no answer.

dd972

Women seem to have a lot more agency over their lives in certain ways, there's a particular type of woman who sits it all out then marries or finds a long term partner in their late 30's, plus this side of life, generally speaking is a choice or an option to them not a chore.

Surreptitious

Pac1Man wrote: »

That didn't answer my question though.

I did the same hours, had the same experience as two of them and got paid less. I was doing the same job.

pangbang

Tell me how wrote: »

And few things.

How is that a realistic situation?

Do you think that at odds of 46 to one that your gender is going to give you an advantage?

Do you think that the likelihood of persevering in a physical confrontation is a suitable reference point in determining which gender has it easier?


My view is that individual circumstances play a much greater point in determining life hardships than the gender of the person.

I may have been joking with that post, even I cant tell.

Okay, a serious situation: Walking down the quays at 1am in the morning on your own, say at halpenny bridge, good few people about. Up ahead are a bunch of drunken twats acting the maggot.

Now, in my opinion, going by life experience, they aren't going to attack a woman, but there is a serious chance they'll go for a bloke on their own. Sure, the woman may get a bunch of drunken cat-calls, worst case scenario you might have an eejit try to grope her. But if they did try to grope her, you know there'll be an army of other blokes ready to come to her assistance.

And the groping part is unlikely, attacking someone else is not all that unlikely.

So yeah, I reckon in that situation I'd rather be a woman because theres practically zero chance I'll end up in the hospital.

I'm not trying to be biased, there are lots of situations where it would be best to be a man.

But whats so hard about having an unbiased opinion, measured against a range of typical scenarios, and coming to an educated guess?

As I said a few times already, being a man or woman is a HUGE factor in determining the START of a situation, an individuals response comes into play AFTER the situation has already started.

If someone else posts "well, errhh, it depends on the man or woman" I'm going to personally dynamite the posters house.

Arghus

pangbang wrote: »

Agree with the after hours. But its not difficult, surely, to at least IMAGINE situations that are completely different for men and women, even if you have no life experiences. And it cant be too difficult to run a bunch through your head and come to a conclusion that "yeah, those situations would be harder for a woman" or vice versa. I'll do it for you....

Sure, you can imagine situations, but I don't think it'll bring you any closer to the truth.

Pac1Man

Surreptitious wrote: »

I did the same hours, had the same experience as two of them and got paid less. I was doing the same job.

wonderfullife

The question is very abstract and subjective.

In general, women face far more hurdles than men globally.

Women are more likely to be assaulted.
Women are more likely to be robbed.
Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted.
Women are more likely to live in poverty.
Women are more likely to be trafficked.

Globally, and in general, pay inequality is very real. Anybody saying otherwise is talking out of their arse. The World Economic Forum said only this year it will take 170 years to try fix the problem of pay inequality and that the gender pay gap is widening globally.

wonderfullife

pangbang wrote: »

Now, in my opinion, going by life experience, they aren't going to attack a woman, but there is a serious chance they'll go for a bloke on their own. Sure, the woman may get a bunch of drunken cat-calls, worst case scenario you might have an eejit try to grope her. But if they did try to grope her, you know there'll be an army of other blokes ready to come to her assistance.

Are you seriously trying to argue that it's far worse for a man to be punched by a "bunch of drunken twats" than it is for a woman to be sexually assaulted by them?

Also the implication men will rush to her assistance and save the day and it'll all be grand.

Honestly, the 'sexism' accusation gets thrown around way too often but you win the prize.

I lived in globally for a while twas a grand spot but in the end the fact that it's an imaginary place that is totally irrelevant to the life of any one individual grated on me and I moved back home #generationrepatriation

LETHAL LADY

Janey Mack! If the men don't have it harder then us ladies lose too. Am I right sisters?

Outlaw Pete

Surreptitious wrote: »

I know a female welder.

Don't we all.

pangbang

wonderfullife wrote: »

The question is very abstract and subjective.

In general, women face far more hurdles than men globally.

Women are more likely to be assaulted.
Women are more likely to be robbed.
Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted.
Women are more likely to live in poverty.
Women are more likely to be trafficked.

Globally, and in general, pay inequality is very real. Anybody saying otherwise is talking out of their arse. The World Economic Forum said only this year it will take 170 years to try fix the problem of pay inequality and that the gender pay gap is widening globally.

Women are more likely to be assaulted: Absolutely no way I believe anything like that. Just thinking of personal experience, I don't know how many fights I have been in (defending myself, I might add). Not one single time have I ever gone to gardai about it. Same goes for every other male I know, and I'm not exaggerating. Vice versa, of the women I know, I don't think any of them have ever been assaulted (cant be 100% sure of course, but I'm talking an entire lifetime here)

Women are more likely to be robbed. I can believe that in the context of bag snatching, sure, but the above assault is far more likely to happen to a man AND be robbed, AND not reported.

Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted. Definitely believe that.

Women are more likely to live in poverty. No, without any research on the spot, again I can think of plenty of lonely poor buggers out on the streets, and very few of them are women. Same goes for men living alone in poor conditions. Have seen that plenty of times, but not once have I seen a woman living in poverty. Not saying it doesn't happen of course, but this whole thing is about averages. Whats your immediate image when you think of a homeless shelter, or even seen them on tv? 50/50 men and women?

Women are more likely to be trafficked. Agree with that.


So to balance things out, what do you have to say about

1) War
2) Isolation
3) Suicide (no doubt linked to isolation)
4) "be a man" attitude across nearly all societies
5) Male versus male competition to the extreme in practically every facet of life
6) The crippling pressure to be a success from age 0, or be deemed failure
7) To be held responsible for practically everything, good and bad
8) To show emotion is to be weak

I'll make one last point about pay inequality. I have worked in many different places, many different situations. Not one time have I ever encountered pay inequality. Not to say it doesn't exist, its probably heavily skewed by countries that don't even allow women to work. Never seen it in Ireland, Europe, America, Asia, Africa, South America. Not one single acquaintance has ever mentioned seeing it to me either.

Be careful of global statistics, its like adding a drop of black paint to a swimming pool of white paint sometimes, and then expecting some crazy difference in colour.

pangbang

wonderfullife wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to argue that it's far worse for a man to be punched by a "bunch of drunken twats" than it is for a woman to be sexually assaulted by them?

Also the implication men will rush to her assistance and save the day and it'll all be grand.

Honestly, the 'sexism' accusation gets thrown around way too often but you win the prize.

Yeah, I am saying that its worse to get be attacked by a group of men that could put you in hospital, AND have the emotional damage of being attacked.......versus having my arse felt up and the emotional damage that goes with that.

Yes, that is what I'm saying in that hypothetical situation.

And yes, I'd be very surprised to see a bunch of men NOT stepping in to assist a woman being hassled. And yes I would be very surprised to see a man get involved in a fight between other men.

I don't need to guess about a lot of these things, I have seen variations of them many, many, many times.

Call me sexist then, you eejit. Maybe one day you'll venture outside and see what life is actually like. Opening your eyes helps too.

pickarooney

January wrote: »

Women.

On periods and childbirth alone, let's not get into the inequalities in the workplace etc.

Women have it harder.

Many women I know describe pregnancy and childbirth as the absolute best moments in their lives. Periods - not so much.

timthumbni

I think imo that men can have it tougher simply because it's the normal train of thought that we go out and work all day whilst in many cases the lady of the house stays at home with the kids.

I would love to spend more time with the kids. It sickens me that the Monday to Friday working attitude still exists here. We are only here for a short time ffs.

Galwayguy35

RayM wrote: »

On balance, I prefer being a man. For example, if a woman goes on a date with a man she doesn't know very well, her biggest worry is that she might get raped. If I go on a date with a woman I don't know very well, the worst thing that could happen (hypothetically) is that she somehow might not fancy me (probably a lesbian).

FFS man get a grip.

That post is completely off the wall.

Galwayguy35

I often wonder did this "women and children first" rule really exist if a ship was sinking?

Don't think my life is less valuable than a woman's or a kids TBH.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I often wonder did this "women and children first" rule really exist if a ship was sinking?

Don't think my life is less valuable than a woman's or a kids TBH.

i dont think that's a rule,I think that's an instinct that a lot of humans are born with. But a lot of people have an instinct to save others in general. Look at the heros in London a few weeks ago

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

i dont think that's a rule. I think that's an instinct that a lot of humans are born with. But a lot of people have an instinct to save others in general. Look at the heros in London a few weeks ago

Yeah that's a good point, but in the scenario I mention is it selfish for a man to want to save himself from certain death by going ahead of women and children or letting them take his place?

Wibbs

wonderfullife wrote: »

The question is very abstract and subjective.

Not really. Not when applied to a group as a whole.

In general, women face far more hurdles than men globally.

Globally. That's the important bit. In the west, in Ireland, today, women are nigh on a "protected species" and in your list in every case but sexual assault women are far less at risk.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I often wonder did this "women and children first" rule really exist if a ship was sinking?

As a general rule kinda, but IIRC it's a 19th century European code for shipping. It's not a legal definition though. These days it would be more along the lines of vulnerable first. In hostage negotiations it's nearly always the women and kids that get released first. Though if I was a hostage taker on say an airliner, I'd release all the men first. Makes far more sense. Keeping just men is dangerous as men are far more a threat and having hostages made up of women and kids the negotiators are going to be more on the back foot and less likely to storm the plane for fear of killing innocent bystanders. A few innocent men die in a storming? Terrible tragedy but so brave. A few innocent women and kids?

We see a similar attitude in war throughout the ages. "Civilian" casualties almost always mean women and kids(and the elderly). Men were expected to be in the firing line and be bullet stoppers, women were not. Though women were often seen as war booty and captured, enslaved, raped. Male captives unless obviously useful were usually just killed.

Don't think my life is less valuable than a woman's or a kids TBH.

Nature wouldn't agree. Men are the more disposable sex(women the more perishable). Basically a fertile woman with kids is more valuable to the continuance of the group. These days with the human population at gigantic levels it makes no difference, but go back to when our instincts were being forged when human groups were made up of forty people or less and women were far more important. Imagine in such a group of forty people all but two of the women died. That group is now on the clock to extinction. If all but two of the men died it wouldn't be. Look at the earliest human art(and art of current hunter gatherers). Outside the animals they hunted it's all about female fertility. This is reflected in our DNA. There are many more female lines that have survived than male.

Mister Vain

I would say overall men have it slightly harder. Disparaging the male gender has become a socially acceptable prejudice in western culture. Sexism against men is fun and light-hearted, while sexism against women is condemned for been politically incorrect. Then there's the suicide rates. However there is extreme pressure on women today to fulfill and maintain standards of beauty set forth by the media and technological and surgical advances. This has created unrealistic standards of beauty for women compared to men. Women are constantly bombarded by the media to attain a standard of beauty that is unattainable. This unrealistic standard of beauty is resulting in a number of mental and physical health problems for young girls and women.

myshirt

Rape of a woman is appalling, but rape of a man seems to be funny to some people. Despite men being the ones who are raped the most worldwide. Yet still we have all these feminists pushing this fantasy of a Western rape culture firstly, and that secondly where rape actually does happen that it is only a female problem.

This is dangerous rhetoric. Good men get chopped down, look at Ched Evans. Young man. Career ruined. This is not funny.

You won't see these feminists protesting in the parts of the world where there actually is rape and where women and men are actually sexually persecuted. They just stays here shouting about jobs in air conditioned offices and more pay for less hours less qualifications less competence less results, while men just get on with it. I know last for one I never looked through a CV and thought this person is very qualified and a good fit, but oh wait, she's a woman. No. I hire on competence. But the feminists push to be hired and pay more based on having a vagina.

Men definitely have it harder.

Carry

Some complementary thoughts about men and women:

women-are-stronger-than-men

Hannibal_Smith

I think men have it worse in this day and age.

I remember watching some English fundraiser thing like red nose day or something. There were two cancer conversations, one was a video of a mother and it was all very poignant and sad. The next segment was aboutique testicular cancer and these massive comical balls dropped from the studio ceiling and it was all great laughs and giggles. If they'd made a laugh and a joke about breast cancer, how well would that have been received?

I also absolutely HATE the comments 'any potential boyfriend comes near my daughter they'll have to face me first'. How sexist is that??!! And it's usually from men! Guess what, me son probably is looking at your daughter as a potential ride. But your precious little princess is looking for the ride herself.

It's like there's a mentality out there that men have no feelings, and if they do and they dare to express them, they're less of a man. I'm probably guilty myself of saying things like 'man up' without thinking.

fando

Women have it harder - they have to grow potatoes.

red ears

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I often wonder did this "women and children first" rule really exist if a ship was sinking?

Don't think my life is less valuable than a woman's or a kids TBH.

I think it's for the movies. In a real life or death situation it's a scramble for survival. My motivation would be to get home alive and safely to my family. That would be my priority not putting the life of a woman or child I don't even know ahead of me.

D0NNELLY

January wrote: »

Women.

On periods and childbirth alone, let's not get into the inequalities in the workplace etc.

Women have it harder.

All temporary. Suicide is permanent.

Loon E. Tick

A more interesting poll would be to break the respondents down by gender as Boards has a predominantly male usership.

Men have it harder, I'm a man.
Men have it harder, I'm a woman.
Women have it harder, I'm a woman.
Women have it harder, I'm a man.

Men do seem to have a greater propensity towards using violence and aggression, and if they feel aggrieved are more likely to use that violence and aggression to make the lives of others harder for both women and themselves. The one category where women experience higher rates of violence and assault than men was found to be women who are blind or have a vision impairment according to a recent U.S. Department of Justice report.

osarusan

F**k sake, talk about the victimhood olympics.

whoopsadoodles

D0NNELLY wrote: »

All temporary. Suicide is permanent.

Yes because suicide only affects men.

I'm not on either side here btw. But if you're going to make an argument for one side, at least make it an intelligent one.

It's all a load of cock tbh (or fanny, lest I be called sexist).

There are things that are far harder generally for men, and some things women will never experience and there are things that are far harder generally for women and some things men will never experience.

I don't understand why there needs to be big divide of the sexes. If everyone treated everyone else as individuals then none of this nonsense would exist. Saying men or women have it harder doesn't in any way shape or form give solace to a PERSON going through hell. They don't give a **** what gender they are, they just know for them life is hard.

LadyMacBeth_

Well it depends if you mean globally or here in the West. If you're talking about here then there are advantages and disadvantages to being male or female. On the whole in this day and age I think that they mostly balance each other out. I think the circumstances that you're born into are far more important to be honest.

wakka12

wonderfullife wrote: »

The question is very abstract and subjective.

In general, women face far more hurdles than men globally.

Women are more likely to be assaulted.
Women are more likely to be robbed.
Women are more likely to be sexually assaulted.
Women are more likely to live in poverty.
Women are more likely to be trafficked.

Globally, and in general, pay inequality is very real. Anybody saying otherwise is talking out of their arse. The World Economic Forum said only this year it will take 170 years to try fix the problem of pay inequality and that the gender pay gap is widening globally.

The question is about life in ireland. I think you'd have to be blind to say women dont have harder lives than men in developing countries and many other cultures

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

The average Irish woman of today can expect to live longer, be better educated, be better paid(before children), have more societal safety nets, more medical research aimed at her, be less likely to be physically assaulted or murdered, less likely to be homeless, far less likely to die in accidents in work(or outside) and far less likely to die by her own hand. These are statistical facts for the average. Individuals differ widely, but take from all that what you will.

Any sources to back this up?

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

Any sources to back this up?

Im not sure on a few of them such as social safety nets or more medical research aimed at women but a few of them are widely known with statistics regularly reported on them such as higher life expectancy in women , higher suicide in men, and higher numbers of women entering and graduating 3rd level than men recently and women being involved in much less crime (hence less likely to be murdered and assaulted)
Id say those 4 facts are verging on common knowledge actually.

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

Im not sure on a few of them such as social safety nets or more medical research aimed at women but a few of them are widely known with statistics regularly reported on them such as higher life expectancy in women , higher suicide in men, and higher numbers of women entering and graduating 3rd level than men recently and women being involved in much less crime (hence less likely to be murdered and assaulted)
Id say those 4 facts are verging on common knowledge actually.

I agree with all of this. You hear it quite often backed up with statistics. The one I'm most interested in is "be better paid(before children)". I can't find anything to back this up.

wakka12

Theres also a lot of physical differences between genders that are often not talked about maybe because theres no real way to help change those but imo they have huge effects on the quality of life of both genders..

Men have higher metabolism and can enjoy eating a lot more food than women and gain less weight for it
Even if women work out a lot to get strong they'll very often still be weaker than even a weak man.
Men are ridiculed for being short while women arent.
Women generally dont go bald while most men do. And women who do can wear wigs, men are ridiculed for doing the same thing.
Men generally look younger than women of the same age when theyre older and imo women expereicne a lot more prejudice for physically ageing than men.
Women can use makeup to enhance their physical appearance.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with all of this. You hear it quite often backed up with statistics. The one I'm most interested in is "be better paid(before children)". I can't find anything to back this up.

Not sure if thejournel.ie is a reliable source: http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-pay-gap-ireland-statistics-facts-3133536-Dec2016/

It doesn't say much about childless women

Hannibal_Smith

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

Yes because suicide only affects men.

I'm not on either side here btw. But if you're going to make an argument for one side, at least make it an intelligent one.

It's all a load of cock tbh (or fanny, lest I be called sexist).

There are things that are far harder generally for men, and some things women will never experience and there are things that are far harder generally for women and some things men will never experience.

I don't understand why there needs to be big divide of the sexes. If everyone treated everyone else as individuals then none of this nonsense would exist. Saying men or women have it harder doesn't in any way shape or form give solace to a PERSON going through hell. They don't give a **** what gender they are, they just know for them life is hard.

I think its good to discuss it. Its good to hear another point of view on things. Its interesting to read that most of the issues people are discussing are people made.

There are things that are made harder because of your gender. Like parking (joke)

I also think it's good to keep an eye on how men are finding the situation to make sure that everything is fair and the scales and tipped too far in favour of women.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure if thejournel.ie is a reliable source: http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-pay-gap-ireland-statistics-facts-3133536-Dec2016/

It doesn't say much about childless women

Found these which are all interlinked and based on the same study:

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/study-finds-gender-gap-in-irish-pay-women-without-children-earn-more-than-male-counterparts-184084061-237553991

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/12/the-4-rich-countries-where-women-out-earn-men-with-1-huge-caveat/266343/

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-women-motherhood-pay-gap-720729-Dec2012/

http://www.oecd.org/newsroom/lackofsupportformotherhoodhurtingwomenscareerprospectsdespitegainsineducationandemploymentsaysoecd.htm


Then there's this stating the opposite 17% figure:

http://www.shemazing.net/clocked-out-irish-women-take-to-twitter-to-mark-gender-pay-gap/

sai.mathur

In the first world, men have it bad. In the third world, women have it much worse.