Men or Women, who has a harder life?

Widdershins

Have we decided yet?

koumi

Widdershins wrote: »

Have we decided yet?

results are due in tomorrow (maybe) but going by the polls the men wins it by a landslide majority. Then it will be prize giving day and we shall drink beer and celebrate.

Beyondgone

Widdershins wrote: »

Weld the eaves? Do you have a lead roof?

In fairness, men might get some training from their fathers,as boys, but girls usually grow up without that. So we all fall into the kinds of things we already have a knack for and a bit of experience with.

I do agree it can't be all equality until it's time for the unpleasant jobs but I wouldn't be built for some of the physical work that men do for me at times. Although I'd usually at least have a go. And I am sure a woman with a pair of weather beaten hands like mine wouldn't hold as much appeal as one with pretty 'office' hands, for a lot of men.

Welcome to 2017, where there are weldable PVC membranes - you use hot air guns. It's dull.

Mister Vain

koumi wrote: »

results are due in tomorrow (maybe) but going by the polls the men wins it by a landslide majority.

Only because the polls were hacked by MGTOW.

koumi

Mister Vain wrote: »

Only because the polls were hacked by MGTOW.

I shouldn't have mentioned I can use a drill. (I'm a bad girl)

Dirty Dingus McGee

Man.

My father didn't have the option to only work part time and then quit work and stay at home.He had to work his balls off while my mother had a much easier time as a housewife which is nowhere near as demanding as having a proper full time job outside of the home.

pwurple

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Man.

My father didn't have the option to only work part time and then quit work and stay at home.He had to work his balls off while my mother had a much easier time as a housewife which is nowhere near as demanding as having a proper full time job outside of the home.

You know what, come back and talk to me when you've experienced both? I have a full time proper job outside the home (engineer). I work my "balls" off at it, and come home to two kids. So does my husband. I did the maternity leave mind-the-kids thing. Out to work is still WAY easier. Being wholly responsible for the lives of a set of people who have zero sense of danger and are trying to kill themselves or eachother constantly is the most exhausting role I've ever had.

GingerLily

The poll would be a lot more informative if it broke it down between the respondents gender! Would be interested to know how many people don't think their own gender has it worse......

optogirl

pwurple wrote: »

You know what, come back and talk to me when you've experienced both? I have a full time proper job outside the home (engineer). I work my "balls" off at it, and come home to two kids. So does my husband. I did the maternity leave mind-the-kids thing. Out to work is still WAY easier. Being wholly responsible for the lives of a set of people who have zero sense of danger and are trying to kill themselves or eachother constantly is the most exhausting role I've ever had.

Totally agree- some mornings it's a damn relief to be leaving the house to go to work

Widdershins

In my experience, I won't say ''men'' but ''people who aren't used to doing regular housework'' don't seem to realise how much goes into it. They don't see all the corners, crevices, under and behind things that need to be cleaned, the amount of hauling involved in the laundry process (it helps if you have a tumble dryer but it still has to be sorted for a second time (first is for washing), folded, carried upstairs (or wherever) and put away. Things like ceiling light shades and windows and rugs and curtains and mirrors need to be wiped and polished, the kitchen appliances need to be de-greased or wiped down, the dusting of the top of units and shelves, all kinds of less obvious things that have to be done as well as the obvious floor cleaning and bathroom cleaning. That's just off the top of my head.
And yes there might be some maintenance work or gardening work that the other partner does but that's not so urgent and much less frequent. And a lot of people seem to pay someone to come in and take care of that kind of thing. On the other hand, I think any survey should refer to ''interior and outdoor maintenance as well as cleaning and tidying'' for the sake of fairness.

So I'm not weighing in on ''who's the most hard done by?'', but I agree that more recognition for homemaking would be good!

the_pen_turner

Widdershins wrote: »

In my experience, I won't say ''men'' but ''people who aren't used to doing regular housework'' don't seem to realise how much goes into it. They don't see all the corners, crevices, under and behind things that need to be cleaned, the amount of hauling involved in the laundry process (it helps if you have a tumble dryer but it still has to be sorted for a second time (first is for washing), folded, carried upstairs (or wherever) and put away. Things like ceiling light shades and windows and rugs and curtains and mirrors need to be wiped and polished, the kitchen appliances need to be de-greased or wiped down, the dusting of the top of units and shelves, all kinds of less obvious things that have to be done as well as the obvious floor cleaning and bathroom cleaning. That's just off the top of my head.
And yes there might be some maintenance work or gardening work that the other partner does but that's not so urgent and much less frequent. And a lot of people seem to pay someone to come in and take care of that kind of thing. On the other hand, I think any survey should refer to ''interior and outdoor maintenance as well as cleaning and tidying'' for the sake of fairness.

So I'm not weighing in on ''who's the most hard done by?'', but I agree that more recognition for homemaking would be good!

Most of those jobs are once a month jobs.
What about saving firewood or turf , lifting the fires and tending to them. Cutting hedges and grass etc can be a big job.

Doing the laundry is a big job but is made bigger my all the clothes we seem to go through in the last few years. No need for all that washing

Sleepy

Surely any of those housework surveys are going to be massively distorted by stay at home mums or the extremely common scenario where the wife works shorter or part-time hours?

freshpopcorn

Widdershins wrote: »

In my experience, I won't say ''men'' but ''people who aren't used to doing regular housework'' don't seem to realise how much goes into it. They don't see all the corners, crevices, under and behind things that need to be cleaned, the amount of hauling involved in the laundry process (it helps if you have a tumble dryer but it still has to be sorted for a second time (first is for washing), folded, carried upstairs (or wherever) and put away. !

You should hand wash your clothes for a few weeks and then you'll relies how much of a doddle it is in compared to your machine.
I know a woman(with a family) and she hadn't a washing machine until the mid 2000's(Very long story) She never understands how people who have washing machines find it difficult and how they complain about doing the washing.

super_furry

There's been an explosion of red-pill type new accounts over here recently.

optogirl

freshpopcorn wrote: »

You should hand wash your clothes for a few weeks

No I shouldn't, that would be crazy.

freshpopcorn

optogirl wrote: »

No I shouldn't, that would be crazy.

Seriously I did it for about a week and you do relies how good the washing machine is! It will really show you that doing the laundry isn't that hard.

Widdershins

freshpopcorn wrote: »

You should hand wash your clothes for a few weeks and then you'll relies how much of a doddle it is in compared to your machine.
I know a woman(with a family) and she hadn't a washing machine until the mid 2000's(Very long story) She never understands how people who have washing machines find it difficult and how they complain about doing the washing.

Yes, It's true that it was and for some people still is a lot harder, but that doesn't mean it isn't a time consuming job. If it was one of only a few jobs it wouldn't be too bad but when you add it all up. I do handwash quite a few things but to be fair that's because I chose to have clothing that are too delicate for machine washing, it's not pure necessity like it was for that lady.

Homemakers I think are more likely to be the ones doing the errands as well.
I'm at home now and looking around and more jobs are coming to mind. E.g, I need to wash the walls down and ideally should be doing it twice as often, in between painting them.

Widdershins

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Most of those jobs are once a month jobs.
What about saving firewood or turf , lifting the fires and tending to them. Cutting hedges and grass etc can be a big job.

Doing the laundry is a big job but is made bigger my all the clothes we seem to go through in the last few years. No need for all that washing

Good points. Well I do the cleaning out and lighting fires and help with getting the turf off the trailer and into the sheds, and bring in firewood at times (housemate would bring in a bigger load of it maybe once a week or two weeks. He does the obtaining of firewood, and the splitting and stacking).

There's also satisfaction to jobs like that that is missing from cleaning the toilet

freshpopcorn

Widdershins wrote: »

Yes, It's true that it was and for some people still is a lot harder, but that doesn't mean it isn't a time consuming job. If it was one of only a few jobs it wouldn't be too bad but when you add it all up. I do handwash quite a few things but to be fair that's because I chose to have clothing that are too delicate for machine washing, it's not pure necessity like it was for that lady.

It's just one of these things we'd have to disagree on to be honest. I find doing laundry/the washing a doddle!

Widdershins

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's just one of these things we'd have to disagree on to be honest. I find doing laundry/the washing a doddle!

I don't think it's a hard job as such, just that it has to be done every however often, so it's repetitive, the it all needs to be done all over again so it all takes up time...although I don't much like putting it all away

Glenster

If a man absolutely messes up his life that's it. He'll be a manual labourer living in digs with a hotplate until he dies of heart disease at 50.

A woman can just glom onto some pathetic farmer and chill out as a housewife.

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pwurple

Glenster wrote: »

If a man absolutely messes up his life that's it. He'll be a manual labourer living in digs with a hotplate until he dies of heart disease at 50.

A woman can just glom onto some pathetic farmer and chill out as a housewife.

lol. Farmer's wives are the most hardworking of all. The day never ends for those women. But yeah, some women can certainly be bone idle if they find some eejit willing to support them lolling about looking pretty.

Likewise, the lazy man can fart about on the dole, have a few scoops down the pub, watch TV, play his playstation, and live off his mammy's cooking services for all his days.

Neither gender has an inherently harder life in the west. Individual circumstances apply.

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tiger55

January wrote: »

Women.

On periods and childbirth alone, let's not get into the inequalities in the workplace etc.

Women have it harder.

I have encountered ZERO discrimination in the workplace against women, this is simply some media myth.
There is massive discrimination against men in the workplace, for example you always get the bimbo who has sex with a male manager to get promoted ahead of qualified men.  I have seen this loads of times.

Glenster

tiger55 wrote: »

I have encountered ZERO discrimination in the workplace against women, this is simply some media myth.
There is massive discrimination against men in the workplace, for example you always get the bimbo who has sex with a male manager to get promoted ahead of qualified men. I have seen this loads of times.

I thought that too when I was a child.

It was only when I entered the workplace at 22 that I actually saw real discrimination.

whoopsadoodles

tiger55 wrote: »

I have encountered ZERO discrimination in the workplace against women, this is simply some media myth.
There is massive discrimination against men in the workplace, for example you always get the bimbo who has sex with a male manager to get promoted ahead of qualified men.  I have seen this loads of times.

Jesus that's awful that the only way the women you've worked with could get a promotion was to sleep with the boss. Loads of times you say?Terrible.

Funny what a change in perspective can do.

tiger55

kunst nugget wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Then there's this stating the opposite 17% figure:

http://www.shemazing.net/clocked-out-irish-women-take-to-twitter-to-mark-gender-pay-gap/

That's because women don't understand how statistics work because they're too busy with their periods. Women! Know your place!

I actually think the confusion comes from how the Women's Council presented the information. IIRC, rather than saying that women earn 17% more than men before childbirth, they said the gender pay gap between men and women was -17% which was obviously very easily misread as this article attests.

I have never seen a woman getting paid less, and i have worked in dozens of companies.  They easily fake the stats.

tiger55

Glenster wrote: »

I thought that too when I was a child.

It was only when I entered the workplace at 22 that I actually saw real discrimination.

It happens all the time, seen it first hand.  When do you ever see a female boss dating the guy on the shopfloor?

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Sleepy

Even then, you'd need access to every HR system and personal knowledge of each person.

Outside of union controlled environments where people are paid for length of service rather than performance or perhaps for some very, very tightly defined roles, it's extremely difficult to determine whether any two people are being paid equitably imo. You could have two employees with identical qualifications and lengths of service that bring wildly different levels of value to their employer.

Widdershins

....... wrote: »

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Ha..exactly..and presumably you have to sleep with the eejit.

Honestly though, people understimate how trying it is to have to sit around drinking gin and painting ones nails all day A woman's work is never done!

whoopsadoodles wrote: »

Jesus that's awful that the only way the women you've worked with could get a promotion was to sleep with the boss. Loads of times you say?Terrible.

Funny what a change in perspective can do.

Yes. As much of a reflection on the male bosses imo. Not only unfair to the female employee in question but the others the boss is probably choosing to pass over in favour of getting a ride. And indicative of a problem, if a woman has to whore herself to be promoted!

tiger55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz4cUatYeFk

Here is an interesting video about it.

optogirl

tiger55 wrote: »

I have encountered ZERO discrimination in the workplace against women, this is simply some media myth.

Based on your survey of one

tiger55

Glenster wrote: »

tiger55 wrote: »

I have encountered ZERO discrimination in the workplace against women, this is simply some media myth.
There is massive discrimination against men in the workplace, for example you always get the bimbo who has sex with a male manager to get promoted ahead of qualified men.  I have seen this loads of times.

I thought that too when I was a child.

It was only when I entered the workplace at 22 that I actually saw real discrimination.

By the time i was 22 I had worked all over the world, and had about 12 jobs on and off.  So, yes i know what i am talking about.

Glenster

tiger55 wrote: »

It happens all the time, seen it first hand. When do you ever see a female boss dating the guy on the shopfloor?

Doesn't that just mean that women aren't predators?

Glenster

tiger55 wrote: »

By the time i was 22 I had worked all over the world, and had about 12 jobs on and off. So, yes i know what i am talking about.

Maybe we have different experiences.

I'm a professional and I see sexism all the time in the workplace.

koumi

medals, medals for everyone.

Wibbs

Glenster wrote: »

Doesn't that just mean that women aren't predators?

Wut? Eh so, a man going out with any women in the workplace that's below his level in the company hierarchy is automatically a predator? That's an utterly moronic statement.

Women would rarely enough date "down" compared to men and this has been the case in pretty much every society and throughout time for all sorts of reasons(inc gender inequality). Sod all to do with "predators". :rolleyes:

Allinall

My conclusion after not reading the thread at all-

The population of boards is represented by 59% men and 41% women.

Glenster

Wibbs wrote: »

Wut? Eh so, a man going out with any women in the workplace that's below his level in the company hierarchy is automatically a predator? That's an utterly moronic statement.

Women would rarely enough date "down" compared to men and this has been the case in pretty much every society and throughout time for all sorts of reasons(inc gender inequality). Sod all to do with "predators". :rolleyes:

I don't think it is.

That's why there are rules.

Wibbs

Glenster wrote: »

I don't think it is.

You can think it is all you like, it is still an utterly retarded statement to state that any man going out with a women in the workplace that's below him in the hierarchy is a predator.

Permabear

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Christian Troy

Women are nearly twice as likely to get dementia. If you don't have to justify your existence, you won't be challenged so you're more likely to get dementia!

Widdershins

I'm almost certain they advise doing cryptic crosswords and learning a new skill to ward of Dementia, not having to justify your existence. But sure no point doing things by halves

Christian Troy

Widdershins wrote: »

no point doing things by halves

I googled that saying and still do not understand what it means!

koumi

Christian Troy wrote: »

I googled that saying and still do not understand what it means!

good for you, at least now you know you won't get dementia

Christian Troy

koumi wrote: »

good for you, at least now you know you won't get dementia

I'm 90 actually. Why don't you explain it instead of gloating.

Widdershins

Christian Troy wrote: »

I'm 90 actually. Why don't you explain it instead of gloating.

It means doing things unenthusiastically, by ''half measures'', or making a half-hearted effort at something.

Christian Troy

GingerLily wrote: »

Until Ireland gives women the right to bodily automony then I have to say women have to harder.

And what would the obvious counter argument to that be?

That's it's the child's body, not the woman's!