Long runs

Louise40

I did a half marathon at the weekend. Struggled from about mile 7 on. In my training I ve been doing 30-34 miles a week. Sat lomg run 11-13 miles aver pace 820 ( these are probably too fast? I feel fine doing them though ), sun 4 easy 915 pace grass, tues club track session, wedn 4-5 miles 920 aver, thur tempo 5 miles average 7:50 pace. My training doesn't match my races. Can anyone see what I am doing wrong

HigginsJ

That looks solid training, what sort of pace are you running the HM in?

ariana`

Louise40 wrote: »

I did a half marathon at the weekend. Struggled from about mile 7 on. In my training I ve been doing 30-34 miles a week. Sat lomg run 11-13 miles aver pace 820 ( these are probably too fast? I feel fine doing them though ), sun 4 easy 915 pace grass, tues club track session, wedn 4-5 miles 920 aver, thur tempo 5 miles average 7:50 pace. My training doesn't match my races. Can anyone see what I am doing wrong

Was it the weather conditions at the weekend? What was your effort levels like, do you wear a HRM? Had you tapered for the HM? Is there a chance you left your race on a training run?

You're doing 3 hard sessions a week - long run, tempo and track. I'm no expert but this seems like a lot of hard stuff for the mileage you're doing.

Supercell

Are you tapering properly before the race and eating right in the last couple of days? If I did a 5 miler tempo during the week of a half I'd feel it for sure
I did the Limerick half at 7'55" pace but on a regular week there is no way I could do half distance at that pace without being destroyed or ending up walking parts. My weekly mileage is about the same and am doing my LSR's at 8'30" (which is about 30 seconds to fast tbh but just don't like running much slower).

average_runner

Louise40 wrote: »

I did a half marathon at the weekend. Struggled from about mile 7 on. In my training I ve been doing 30-34 miles a week. Sat lomg run 11-13 miles aver pace 820 ( these are probably too fast? I feel fine doing them though ), sun 4 easy 915 pace grass, tues club track session, wedn 4-5 miles 920 aver, thur tempo 5 miles average 7:50 pace. My training doesn't match my races. Can anyone see what I am doing wrong

Your long run looks too fast. Your long run should not make you tired, if it does your going too fast unless its a MP sesssion and still shouldn't have you wrecked

Louise40

HigginsJ wrote: »

That looks solid training, what sort of pace are you running the HM in?

Thanks for reply. I did half in 1:47. It felt very tough though. I think my long run is too fast? I ve been doing them at 820 pace and felt fine but in reality that is my race pace. I thought I d be nearer 145

Louise40

Supercell wrote: »

Are you tapering properly before the race and eating right in the last couple of days? If I did a 5 miler tempo during the week of a half I'd feel it for sure
I did the Limerick half at 7'55" pace but on a regular week there is no way I could do half distance at that pace without being destroyed or ending up walking parts. My weekly mileage is about the same and am doing my LSR's at 8'30" (which is about 30 seconds to fast tbh but just don't like running much slower).

Thanks for your reply. I did very little last wk before the race. Did 8 on the saturday at 820 pace. 4 on grass on Sunday. Track session Tuesday and 3 on grass at 920 pace thur.

Ate well. Drank lots of water all week.

I asked a friend of mine who is running a while and he reckoned it is the pace of my long runs that is wrong?

HigginsJ

Louise40 wrote: »

Thanks for reply. I did half in 1:47. It felt very tough though. I think my long run is too fast? I ve been doing them at 820 pace and felt fine but in reality that is my race pace. I thought I d be nearer 145

That is really fast for training runs on your long slow run. We wouldn't be a million miles apart in terms of HM pace and I'd do my LSR's about 9:30 to 10:00.

What is your 10k PB out of interest?

The advice I have gotten (repeatedly) from much better runners than me is that it is time on your feet that counts in your LSR. You are only running your long slow runs about 10-15 seconds per mile off of your actual HM pace, you might simply be worn out by the end of a training block if that is what you are doing constantly.

Louise40

HigginsJ wrote: »

That is really fast for training runs on your long slow run. We wouldn't be a million miles apart in terms of HM pace and I'd do my LSR's about 9:30 to 10:00.

What is your 10k PB out of interest?

The advice I have gotten (repeatedly) from much better runners than me is that it is time on your feet that counts in your LSR. You are only running your long slow runs about 10-15 seconds per mile off of your actual HM pace, you might simply be worn out by the end of a training block if that is what you are doing constantly.

Thanks for your reply. I have a 10k in 5 July so I ll let you know how that goes. Haven't done one in ages.

I thought I was going great in training but I must have been going too well in hind sight.

I wasn't exhausted after the long runs. I often did the last 2-3 miles at 8 min:mile pace and felt good. I had nothing on Saturday for the actual race.


Something similar happened in mallow 10 mile. I put that down to going out too fast but in reality I think it was too many fast long runs caught up with me.

I seem to have the good times in training. 4 weeks ago I did 13 miles at 815 pace. I thought I d be around 145 on Saturday. Started slow and did all that ok but nothing In the tank on the day.

Stupid really but I m fierce disappointed'

HigginsJ

I can understand the disappointment but it is still a good time. I reckon some changes to your training and taking the advice of the best runners on here would help.

Maybe look at something like a Hal Higdon intermediate/advanced plan for the HM to see if that would help (this will sound very hypocritical to anyone who read my log this morning!! :P )

Time wise how long are your long runs?

Louise40

HigginsJ wrote: »

I can understand the disappointment but it is still a good time. I reckon some changes to your training and taking the advice of the best runners on here would help.

Maybe look at something like a Hal Higdon intermediate/advanced plan for the HM to see if that would help (this will sound very hypocritical to anyone who read my log this morning!! :P )

Time wise how long are your long runs?

The effort for the 1:47 was unreal compared to how I ve felt doing the long runs. Normally my long runs in training take about 146-150

HigginsJ

Louise40 wrote: »

The effort for the 1:47 was unreal compared to how I ve felt doing the long runs. Normally my long runs in training take about 146-150

There are lots and lots of articles out there about why it is important to run slow, most of them back up this saying 45 seconds to 90 seconds per mile slower than goal pace on your long runs.

https://runnersconnect.net/wrong-long-run-pace/

http://womensrunning.competitor.com/2016/09/training-tips/slow-running-benefits_64145#id0aoc50VEXjOwK0.97

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/the-marathon-long-run/

http://running.competitor.com/2014/01/training/how-fast-should-your-easy-long-runs-be_60984

Itziger

I'd try to get in one other 'longish' run at some stage. Those easy 4 milers aren't going to do you much good other than as recovery runs. Try to do a 12 to 16k run at some stage. The track session is probably a short mileage day as well.

I'd throw in a bit of faster stuff into one of the two longer runs. Say you do 15k, you could do the last 5 (then later 6, 7, 8) at target pace. Do the other long run easy.

With the tempo run, you should do a decent warm up, then the T section and a decent c/d. That could be the 'longish' run. Also, chop and change a bit. Another week you might do the following: W/u, 10 mins Tempo, 3x1k @ 10k pace, 10 mins Tempo, c/d. But you couldn't just jump into that workout, build up to it.

Good luck.

Louise40

Itziger wrote: »

I'd try to get in one other 'longish' run at some stage. Those easy 4 milers aren't going to do you much good other than as recovery runs. Try to do a 12 to 16k run at some stage. The track session is probably a short mileage day as well.

I'd throw in a bit of faster stuff into one of the two longer runs. Say you do 15k, you could do the last 5 (then later 6, 7, 8) at target pace. Do the other long run easy.

With the tempo run, you should do a decent warm up, then the T section and a decent c/d. That could be the 'longish' run. Also, chop and change a bit. Another week you might do the following: W/u, 10 mins Tempo, 3x1k @ 10k pace, 10 mins Tempo, c/d. But you couldn't just jump into that workout, build up to it.

Good luck.

Thanks for this. I did 14 mile long run yesterday. Slowed the pace right down to 9.30 aver per mile.

I will definitely take on board your advice.

I m going to sign up for charleville half at the end of September so hopefully will have improved a bit by then!

Louise40

Just to updat on this week, I did
Saturday 14 miles 9.30 pace
Sunday 4 easy 9.30 pace on grass
Tues track session 4 x6 min 1 min recovery
Wedn 4.5 miles easy 9.30 pace
Today 7 miles including 5 mile tempo 7.50 aver pace

I am hoping to break 1:45 in charleville half in sept.

How does this weeks training look?

Itziger

Louise40 wrote: »

Just to updat on this week, I did
Saturday 14 miles 9.30 pace
Sunday 4 easy 9.30 pace on grass
Tues track session 4 x6 min 1 min recovery
Wedn 4.5 miles easy 9.30 pace
Today 7 miles including 5 mile tempo 7.50 aver pace

I am hoping to break 1:45 in charleville half in sept.

How does this weeks training look?

It is good. (Ok that's the positive bit out of my system, phew!)

However, a question or two. What speed are you doing the track session reps at? I would add a bit of 'stuff' - the technical term for race pace or 'speed' - to some, not all, of the Long Runs and the weeks that you do that, I'd knock either the track or the Tempo session on the head. Also, 6 minutes is a bit short for the track reps, no? A session I did before my Half PB was something like W/U, 1k say 10 seconds faster than HM pace, 2k at 5 secs per km faster, 3k at HM pace and then back down. That's a tough session. I think I mentioned the other one with Tempo/Threshold with 3 or 4 x 1km @ 10k pace + T again. You could build that up starting with 10 mins at T pace and 2 or 3 of the single 10k pace kms in the sandwich.......

Keep us posted. You're going well I'd say.

noelearly

Louise40 wrote: »

Just to updat on this week, I did
Saturday 14 miles 9.30 pace
Sunday 4 easy 9.30 pace on grass
Tues track session 4 x6 min 1 min recovery
Wedn 4.5 miles easy 9.30 pace
Today 7 miles including 5 mile tempo 7.50 aver pace

I am hoping to break 1:45 in charleville half in sept.

How does this weeks training look?

That's perfect, reading back your average 8.20 pace was too quick for long run. I used to make that mistake regularly, by spending more time on your feet everything improves. 9.30 for long run but just be careful I notice you have 9.30 for an easy run on the Sun/Wed. Don't get used to this pace for every run, do your recovery on Sunday slower and the midweek run at say 8.30/45 pace.