Lions vs Highlanders

The real mccoy 91

Tigerandahalf wrote:

The Lions are light on the wings. Very dependent on L Wiilliams and North staying fit.

Watson has been the best winger on tour so far

irishman86

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The tempo that he brings. Murray spends an age getting the ball away from the ruck allowing the defensive line to reset.

Webb made some lovely breaks down the blindside.

If it is a wet game it is Murray all day for the control he gives.

Some big calls to be made now. Do they start with concussion prone Sexton and North and risk them going off very early.

Halfpenny is nailed on for 15 for his kicking.

The Lions are light on the wings. Very dependent on L Wiilliams and North staying fit.

I wonder will they start Farrell and Teo at 10/12 now.

What has Williams done to deserve a place on the wing, he has played horrific

awec

irishman86 wrote: »

Anybody else really enjoying the rugby but really lethargic about the Lions winning.

Have to admit I didn't really mind seeing the Highlanders win. They play great rugby and I like to see teams who play like that rewarded. It's much more entertaining to watch.

sydthebeat

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Disappointed with the Highlanders backline. Were they missing many?

Disappointed how?
They seemed to have the lions stressed anytime they went s wide. Hands were good and wingers made ground quite often.

They were missing Aaron and Ben Smith and Rob Thompson.

stephen_n

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The tempo that he brings. Murray spends an age getting the ball away from the ruck allowing the defensive line to reset.

Webb made some lovely breaks down the blindside.

If it is a wet game it is Murray all day for the control he gives.

Some big calls to be made now. Do they start with concussion prone Sexton and North and risk them going off very early.

Halfpenny is nailed on for 15 for his kicking.

The Lions are light on the wings. Very dependent on L Wiilliams and North staying fit.

I wonder will they start Farrell and Teo at 10/12 now.

Murray is more than capeable of making breaks, Webb definitely plays a higher tempo game, but that can also affect decision making. Murray is quick enough getting the ball away at times, but definitely goes for accuracy more often. Overall though Murray is the better SH by a considerable distance.

wp_rathead

Back 3 very close to picking itself - Halfpenny, Watson and AN Other

Webbs

wp_rathead wrote: »

Back 3 very close to picking itself - Halfpenny, Watson and AN Other

If he stays fit, North is nailed on to start

pickarooney

Does anyone know what the average number of players used over a three test series is? I'd imagine close to 30 players will feature.

wp_rathead

Webbs wrote: »

If he stays fit, North is nailed on to start

Which is kinda scandalous - he is lucky to even be on the tour going on his form this season
Would like to see Daly given more gametime to show what he can do

Buer

pickarooney wrote: »

Does anyone know what the average number of players used over a three test series is? I'd imagine close to 30 players will feature.

Was 30 in the last tour, I believe. But that was increased significantly due to several guys who had no apearance before that getting a run out off the bench in the final test when the series was won. Farrell, Gray, Tipuric and Tuilagi all got 15-25 minutes as a token gesture.

dregin

.ak wrote: »

I thought best, CJ, Warbs, Hendo, McGrath, Webb, Biggar, Henshaw all looked massive improved.

Seymour, Joseph looked better than last showings; just!

Joseph really mixed the sublime with the poor, so many missed tackles from a 13 is poor form.

Cole was a liability, pretty much gifted them the game.

I'd question this. The first scrum penalty against him was on the opposite side from the ref, but the touch judge didn't call it against their LH. The second - there was no way their LH was driving forward right in front of the ref. Very dodgy calls, imo.

Sangre

dregin wrote: »

I'd question this. The first scrum penalty against him was on the opposite side from the ref, but the touch judge didn't call it against their LH. The second - there was no way their LH was driving forward right in front of the ref. Very dodgy calls, imo.

That one really stumped me. Open to correction but while it looked like Highlanders got the initial nudge they then proceeded to bore in illegally.

I wonder if the ref just took at the initial nudge and took the view that the Lions weren't taking the pressure.

pickarooney

Buer wrote: »

Was 30 in the last tour, I believe. But that was increased significantly due to several guys who had no apearance before that getting a run out off the bench in the final test when the series was won. Farrell, Gray, Tipuric and Tuilagi all got 15-25 minutes as a token gesture.

Given this year's options at centre, Tuilagi would play every minute at 13 if he was ever fit I reckon.

bluedex

Buer wrote: »

Was 30 in the last tour, I believe. But that was increased significantly due to several guys who had no apearance before that getting a run out off the bench in the final test when the series was won. Farrell, Gray, Tipuric and Tuilagi all got 15-25 minutes as a token gesture.

Wasn't it 1-1 going into the final test last time?

Podge_irl

bluedex wrote: »

Wasn't it 1-1 going into the final test last time?

Game was well won I guess. Though the fact they were on the bench means they weren't exactly unlikely to get on the pitch.

Mebuntu

The Lions were well set and reasonably comfortable to win this game at 22-13 following Warburton's try and Biggar's conversion.

Unfortunately and crucially for what happened next, Jared Payne then (unchallenged) immediately dropped the restart (as easy a ball to catch as can be) right in front of his posts. Coming so quickly after conceding that gave the Highlanders all the momentum they needed at that juncture and a try followed within 6/7 minutes.

There were plenty of mistakes by others but, for me, that was the one that really counted against the Lions today.

awec

Mebuntu wrote: »

The Lions were well set and reasonably comfortable to win this game at 22-13 following Warburton's try and Biggar's conversion.

Unfortunately and crucially for what happened next, Jared Payne then (unchallenged) immediately dropped the restart (as easy a ball to catch as can be) right in front of his posts. Coming so quickly after conceding that gave the Highlanders all the momentum they needed at that juncture and a try followed within 6/7 minutes.

There were plenty of mistakes by others but, for me, that was the one that really counted against the Lions today.

Actually I think a bigger factor was Alun Wyn Jones giving away the offside penalty that led directly to the lineout from which they scored their try. This came right after a fantastic counter ruck by Henderson and the Lions clearing their lines.

The real mccoy 91

After watching it again the first try was definitely crossing on henshaw surely? Completely taken out of it

Yeah_Right

dregin wrote: »

I'd question this. The first scrum penalty against him was on the opposite side from the ref, but the touch judge didn't call it against their LH. The second - there was no way their LH was driving forward right in front of the ref. Very dodgy calls, imo.

Cole starts both scrums with his hips angling out so he can bore in on the hooker. The Highlanders go forward which then twists him in even further and causes him to pop up or collapse.

Buer

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

After watching it again the first try was definitely crossing on henshaw surely? Completely taken out of it

100% obstruction. Not to be a sook (I really do like that word), Ainley sees Henshaw coming up to make the tackle and jumps in front of him to block his path to Naholo. It's as clear as day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zZ6VM6yyzk&t=1m9s

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Cole starts both scrums with his hips angling out so he can bore in on the hooker. The Highlanders go forward which then twists him in even further and causes him to pop up or collapse.

Totally agreed. Cole was badly beaten

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

100% obstruction. Not to be a sook (I really do like that word), Ainley sees Henshaw coming up to make the tackle and jumps in front of him to block his path to Naholo. It's as clear as day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zZ6VM6yyzk&t=1m9s

Don't think Henshaw was going to make the tackle, but it was obstruction and clearly deliberate. Highlanders could not have objected if that was whistled as a penalty.

CurryFlavoured

Not a good result obviously but the starting team for the big games is starting to shape itself. This looked like a second team on paper and this result only builds on that idea. Other than Warburton, Stander, Henshaw, Joseph and Webb, none of which are nailed on starters either, the team looked like definite backup players.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Don't think Henshaw was going to make the tackle, but it was obstruction and clearly deliberate. Highlanders could not have objected if that was whistled as a penalty.

Why wouldn't he make the tackle?

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

Why wouldn't he make the tackle?

I don't think he was massively impeded despite the clear intention to do so and I don't think he would have managed the tackle regardless. It's entirely supposition though.

.ak

I thought he wouldn't make the tackle too until I saw the replay. He absolutely would've got hands to him, he had to run into another channel cuz of the block. Can't believe it wasn't looked at.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

I thought he wouldn't make the tackle too until I saw the replay. He absolutely would've got hands to him, he had to run into another channel cuz of the block. Can't believe it wasn't looked at.

I'm still not sure.

I also think there is a slight distinction between where the Highlander player was running his line and where the deliberately moved to block Henshaw (which he clearly did). Either way he was partly blocking Henshaw's line but I think it would have been harsh to blow it without the step into his path.

Buer

To be honest, Podge, the only way he doesn't at least get hands on Naholo is if he falls before he gets there. He's running straight at him and Naholo takes the ball stationary.

Even with the block, he comes within about a yard of him.

EDIT: Just on the above, Ainley's original position wasn't blocking Henshaw. He was standing still and takes a big sidestep across to get to Henshaw.

bluedex

Podge_irl wrote: »

Game was well won I guess. Though the fact they were on the bench means they weren't exactly unlikely to get on the pitch.

Ah I get you now, sorry, see what you mean.

And as for Cole, he consistently scrums illegally and gets away with it a lot of the time IMO, a bit like Kilcoyne.

bluedex

Buer wrote: »

To be honest, Podge, the only way he doesn't at least get hands on Naholo is if he falls before he gets there. He's running straight at him and Naholo takes the ball stationary.

Even with the block, he comes within about a yard of him.

Yes, an obvious block and normally a clear pen, bad miss by the officials.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

To be honest, Podge, the only way he doesn't at least get hands on Naholo is if he falls before he gets there. He's running straight at him and Naholo takes the ball stationary.

Even with the block, he comes within about a yard of him.

EDIT: Just on the above, Ainley's original position wasn't blocking Henshaw. He was standing still and takes a big sidestep across to get to Henshaw.

Okay, I've looked back on it and you're actually right. I thought when I first saw it that he was forcing Henshaw to arc anyway (legally) but then stepped into his line further. Camera angles play funny tricks - missed some of the replays while pretending to work.

Ludikrus

Mebuntu wrote: »

The Lions were well set and reasonably comfortable to win this game at 22-13 following Warburton's try and Biggar's conversion.

Unfortunately and crucially for what happened next, Jared Payne then (unchallenged) immediately dropped the restart (as easy a ball to catch as can be) right in front of his posts. Coming so quickly after conceding that gave the Highlanders all the momentum they needed at that juncture and a try followed within 6/7 minutes.

There were plenty of mistakes by others but, for me, that was the one that really counted against the Lions today.

Spot on. And this is the incident Gatland was referring to afterwards when he was asked about where the game turned and mentioned players who were "normally safe under a high ball". Payne has had a few of those this year. I remember a couple against England in the 6N.

kilns

Love to get a bit of NZ perspective on the game.  According to the NZ Herald, the two worst players on the pitch were Stander and Henderson, both getting 5 ratings.  Its amazing what scoring a try does for perception too, if Warburton or JJ didnt get theirs, they would have been slated by all for a poor performance

Erik Shin

stephen_n wrote: »

What would that be?

A Welsh accent

irishbucsfan

I do think Webb offers something Murray doesn't have, which is a little bit more pace and a bit more of a threat on the fringes. But the rest of Murray's game surely makes him a likely starter.

I was really impressed by Webb at times this morning. He could be a great replacement, especially if we need someone to come in and push the tempo.

Yeah_Right

kilns wrote: »

Love to get a bit of NZ perspective on the game.  According to the NZ Herald, the two worst players on the pitch were Stander and Henderson, both getting 5 ratings.  Its amazing what scoring a try does for perception too, if Warburton or JJ didnt get theirs, they would have been slated by all for a poor performance

Just read those ratings. What a lot of bs. JJ gets an 8 and has shoulders of steel in defence?!? WTF!
Warburton was alright (better than Haskell) but not great.
Stander stood out more as the game went on but he is quite one dimensional.
Fair rating for Henderson I think. I know I'm going to get vilified on here for saying this but I don't think Henderson is living up to his potential. He can do great things but also stupid, lazy things. Often in the same game. He should be the Irish answer to Itoje but he just isn't at the level consistently.
The author was too lazy to rate the Lions front row replacements

irishbucsfan

The New Zealand Herald is the worst herald since the Evening one.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Stander stood out more as the game went on but he is quite one dimensional.

I find Stander frustrating. He has it all but limits himself with his style. I believe he has the hands to play a more linked up style when there's an opportunity but his mindset is just to run straight at the nearest defender when he gets the ball. He's bloody good at getting over the gain line but there's times when the ball has to go. Two such occasions today when there was a real line break on the cards and he sought contact.

The set play that led to JJ's try showed that he can move the ball and do so well but he needs to do it in open play and that's where Faletau has a significant advantage over him.

I still reckon he might get the 20 jersey given the amount of impact and physicality he can bring but the sort of pass that POM gave on Saturday on the blindside in tight space is something that has to have POM in the team ahead of him, for me.

irishbucsfan

It was at least a 5 on 2 overlap when Stander ran straight into the defender in front of him. He must have had momentary blindness, it'd be the only acceptable excuse. If the Lions ever gave a kiwi side that kind of overlap it'd be 5 points on the board.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It was at least a 5 on 2 overlap when Stander ran straight into the defender in front of him. He must have had momentary blindness, it'd be the only acceptable excuse. If the Lions ever gave a kiwi side that kind of overlap it'd be 5 points on the board.

I think it was closer to 4 on 2 and near enough the touchline. It was still pretty bad. Losing the ball to a penalty for holding on when you have that much support is pretty bad also.

awec

I don't think Stander is in contention for the tests any more.

Boscoirl

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think it was closer to 4 on 2 and near enough the touchline. It was still pretty bad. Losing the ball to a penalty for holding on when you have that much support is pretty bad also.

The clear out from Henshaw and Lawes(?) was pretty weak

Del.Monte

Highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykIT9hUbzJs

CatFromHue

It's great how quick the official high lights are put up, it helps keep people interested too. If you had to wait a few days to see them you'd just not bother.

Neil3030

Erik Shin wrote: »

A Welsh accent

So should Rhys Ruddock be sitting by the phone?

swiwi_

The Lions vs Highlanders in a series of rhetorical Qs

• What has happened to Dan Biggar's macarena?
• Has Sam Warburton done enough?
• Did Jared Payne really grow up playing rugby in NZ?
• Will Jackson Hemopo wear black one day?
• Could Ulster do worse than offer Luke Whitelock a contract?
• Who kicked the ball more in open play?
• How dominant was the Lions scrum?
• Did Iain Henderson actually play? And what about Jack Nowell?
• Is Marty Banks still heading to Treviso?
• Malakai Fekitoa is a bit wooden on attack, isn't he?
• Why does CJ Stander always avoid contact?
• Did this game have more than a passing resemblance to Super Rugby?
• Should all news stadiums be covered? Or do we like rain & mud sometimes?
• Is the tour still on track?

swiwi_

kilns wrote: »

Love to get a bit of NZ perspective on the game.  According to the NZ Herald, the two worst players on the pitch were Stander and Henderson, both getting 5 ratings.  Its amazing what scoring a try does for perception too, if Warburton or JJ didnt get theirs, they would have been slated by all for a poor performance

IMHO, the best Lions players were probably Webb & Joseph. The Irish Lions generally had poor games: Henderson and poor old Henshaw were anonymous, Payne had the dropsies, Best was OK, Stander was well-contained, McGrath was OKish in limited time.

The best Highlanders were Luke Whitelock and the lock I had never seen play before Jackson Hemopo. Naholo & Li were a constant threat, and Marty Banks was nice and calm.

The Highlanders played like I expected the Crusaders would, but this was a poorer Lions team and a better Highlanders effort.

.ak

Thought Best and Hendo had good games. Both coming up with big plays at pivotal times, Hendo finally used his size and bullied a lot of people at the breakdown and carried well.

swiwi_

.ak wrote: »

Thought Best and Hendo had good games. Both coming up with big plays at pivotal times, Hendo finally used his size and bullied a lot of people at the breakdown and carried well.

It's weird. You are not alone in saying Henderson was a standout for the Lions.

My optometrist appt is at 10 tomorrow in case you were wondering.

irishbucsfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

It's weird. You are not alone in saying Henderson was a standout for the Lions.

My optometrist appt is at 10 tomorrow in case you were wondering.

He mixed the quite good with the very poor. I thought he showed enough to put himself in contention, but only if Lawes is out.