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Text Message - Please Vacate

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    #62
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    reading this thread with great interest.

    friends daughter has a 3 bed house & house shared by renting the two empty bedrooms. her job transferred her to the uk for 6 months & while she was in uk a third person (student) moved in. everyone in the house knew it was while she was temporarily away in the uk.

    the students course is now finished & she is moving out. friends daughter is back in dublin since may & intends moving back into her home as soon as the room is vacant.

    is this a licence arrangement for the two house sharers?

    No technically not a license agreement anymore, as soon as she moved out, the renters became tenants. After 6 months they have part 4 rights.....that is the gist of it.

    But look sometimes the law is what will be relevant, if no issues are expected to arise, move back in. It is not a criminal act and its up to the tenants to enforce their tenancies rights. But she probably should just issue notice of termination of any tenancy that has arisen to be safe using the template for own use. The older landlord and tenant acts had intent of the parties provisions, the RTB act does not.

    But this represents a situation different to the above, no party can claim they were unjustly treated, if the landlord never lived in the property for the time of the current tenants and they moved in expecting part 4 rights, it is likely that they would take a case.


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    #63
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    So the case I listed could be summed up so.

    Women lived in flat with another women.
    While there, the landlord/cleaners/workmen etc would have to ask permission to enter the property.
    When the second tenant left, landlord asked person in case to agree to new potential flatmate.
    Landlord stored some stuff in the other room.
    She lived there for 16 months on her own as the landlord didn't bother getting a second tenant.
    During that time, she had evidence that to even enter the flat he requested her permission including storing the stuff.
    He decided he wanted to sell, moved himself into the second room and then booted her out.(looking at you Nox)

    RTB found against the landlords claim that she was a licensee based on those facts, . High court judge agreed. I agree, while she had non-exlusive use of the common areas for a while(everybody who cohabits does), she had exclusive use of the flat.

    The HC judgement you linked is another that comes up a lot, dude lived in a B&B.

    Yes I would agree mostly.

    But what I took from the case notes was that even where the LL retains access of the common areas, that is still exclusive use according to the RTB, for what that is worth to the case.


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    #64
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,328 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Colby Careful Pretzel wrote: »
    I was referring to a collective group of unconnected people, paying separate rent for their room only as opposed to the examples above where it makes sense as the collective are really one unit in reality rather than a number of random people.
    .

    You clearly didn't read the examples as the third was precisely the situation of random people on individual terms. Did you look at the law or are you posing responses based on your attitude of what it should be?


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    #65
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    reading this thread with great interest.

    friends daughter has a 3 bed house & house shared by renting the two empty bedrooms. her job transferred her to the uk for 6 months & while she was in uk a third person (student) moved in. everyone in the house knew it was while she was temporarily away in the uk.

    the students course is now finished & she is moving out. friends daughter is back in dublin since may & intends moving back into her home as soon as the room is vacant.

    is this a licence arrangement for the two house sharers?

    It turns on the meaning of the phrase, a dwelling in which the landlord also resides.
    There is an argument that since the owner was away temporarily , that the status of the dwelling did not change. The case could be made that the 2 licencees moved in with the landlord and can't take advantage of the temporary absence of the landlord to exclude the landlord. There is the contrary argument that once the landlord moved out, a tenancy started and can't be terminated in another way that the methods prescribed in the Act and the landlord can move in and terminate that way. It would be an interesting RTB case if it ever gets going.


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