Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Inquiry into potential LC exam security breach

Options
«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    CWF
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭CWF


    clunked wrote: »
    Somebody is in trouble. I'd be suprised if it is an experienced supervisor.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2017/0613/882439-leaving-cert/

    Doesn't seem to be many of them this year!


  • Options
    #3
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    What a stupid thing to do. Perhaps they thought it would be ok since candidates could leave after 10 and no new candidates could enter after that time. Either way, incredibly foolish.


  • Options
    #4
    CWF
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭CWF


    Erica Tangy Respirator wrote: »
    What a stupid thing to do. Perhaps they thought it would be ok since candidates could leave after 10 and no new candidates could enter after that time. Either way, incredibly foolish.

    After 30 you mean


  • Options
    #5
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    CWF wrote: »
    After 30 you mean

    I mean after 10am. Since the exam started at 9.30 and the photo was apparently uploaded after 10am.


  • Options
    #6
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,517 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    It makes you realise that when a teacher is at the door wanting a peek at the exam and you're being genuine giving it out. So easy for something to make the news regarding the LC or JC


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    TheDriver wrote: »
    It makes you realise that when a teacher is at the door wanting a peek at the exam and you're being genuine giving it out. So easy for something to make the news regarding the LC or JC

    Jeez couldn't they at least wait till after the exam.
    Happened in a closed page on Facebook though. I wonder will they get a whipping boy out for public sacrifice.


  • Options
    #8
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    Jeez couldn't they at least wait till after the exam.
    Happened in a closed page on Facebook though. I wonder will they get a whipping boy out for public sacrifice.

    Just shows you they are monitoring online closeky


  • Options
    #9
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Just shows you they are monitoring online closeky

    I'd say someone from the page dobbed them in.


  • Options
    #10
    Bean Scoile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Bean Scoile


    My guess is that it was someone who was doing reader and their candidate left at 10. I can't imagine how else it could have happened.


  • Options
    #11
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,581 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Could anyone really have benifeted from it though ??


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Bean Scoile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Bean Scoile


    _Brian wrote: »
    Could anyone really have benifeted from it though ??

    Only teachers who were dying to find out what came up!


  • Options
    #13
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    "It said the exam would not have been compromised for students sitting it."


    Until one of the students have one of these and someone on the outside with access to the closed facebook group :


    tiny earpiece 101

    2jxRAkw.jpg


  • Options
    #14
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Bean Scoile wrote: »
    My guess is that it was someone who was doing reader and their candidate left at 10. I can't imagine how else it could have happened.

    Or they were just brazen enough to bring a phone into the special centre with them, take photos and upload. Nothing would surprise me these days.


  • Options
    #15
    Bean Scoile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Bean Scoile


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Or they were just brazen enough to bring a phone into the special centre with them, take photos and upload. Nothing would surprise me these days.

    Well that would be particularly naive, but wouldn't surprise me either.

    I'm sure whoever reported them screenshot it so the sec will know exactly who it was.


  • Options
    #16
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    I know they are saying this wasn't a superintendent who leaked the paper, but in my experience, new superintendents are not given enough training for the position and superintendents of separate centres are given none at all unless they are lucky enough to have a decent SNA coordinator, but still, nothing from the department at all. I would bet that the person who did this had no idea that they were doing anything wrong.


  • Options
    #17
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    I know they are saying this wasn't a superintendent who leaked the paper, but in my experience, new superintendents are not given enough training for the position and superintendents of separate centres are given none at all unless they are lucky enough to have a decent SNA coordinator, but still, nothing from the department at all. I would bet that the person who did this had no idea that they were doing anything wrong.

    Presumably if they are a member of an Irish teachers group, and also in a school with access to an exam paper on the morning of the exam, they are a qualified Irish teacher. You'd have to be living under a rock to not be aware of the security surrounding the LC exams every year and anyone who is teaching will be old enough to remember the debacle with the English paper in 2009.

    Any teacher with more than two brain cells should have enough cop not to post a paper online during an exam, whether they are a superintendent of an exam, a teacher who got the paper from a superintendent, or a teacher who was supervising in a special centre. In two of those cases they would have most likely been in the centre with their phone. I don't think lack of training is an excuse for being an utter tool.


  • Options
    #18
    Bananaleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Presumably if they are a member of an Irish teachers group, and also in a school with access to an exam paper on the morning of the exam, they are a qualified Irish teacher. You'd have to be living under a rock to not be aware of the security surrounding the LC exams every year and anyone who is teaching will be old enough to remember the debacle with the English paper in 2009.

    Any teacher with more than two brain cells should have enough cop not to post a paper online during an exam, whether they are a superintendent of an exam, a teacher who got the paper from a superintendent, or a teacher who was supervising in a special centre. In two of those cases they would have most likely been in the centre with their phone. I don't think lack of training is an excuse for being an utter tool.

    They shouldn't post it up online, no. But my point is that anyone can act as superintendent in a separate centre, including a college student. Also, it was a resource share group for Irish teachers. Wouldn't say every member of a facebook group is asked for a copy of their transcripts. If it was Irish teachers association then maybe.

    Also, you say that anyone with two brain cells should know not to post a paper online during an exam. I agree with you 100%. Yet this person did it. This same person was given custody of the papers by SEC. That shouldn't happen. It's a tough one for the SEC because they need to take those who apply as there aren't enough numbers for them to have a set of criteria to meet. They can't interview us all and reference letters from principals wouldn't be worth the paper they're written on, so I think the very least they could do is up the training. It might not be an excuse for being a tool, but what else can one expect if they don't train people sufficiently?

    What is the 2009 debacle? Is this where the incorrect envelope of papers were opened and paper 2 had to be sat on a Saturday? If so, that is an entirely different situation and has nothing in common with what happened today.


  • Options
    #19
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    They shouldn't post it up online, no. But my point is that anyone can act as superintendent in a separate centre, including a college student. Also, it was a resource share group for Irish teachers. Wouldn't say every member of a facebook group is asked for a copy of their transcripts. If it was Irish teachers association then maybe.

    Also, you say that anyone with two brain cells should know not to post a paper online during an exam. I agree with you 100%. Yet this person did it. This same person was given custody of the papers by SEC. That shouldn't happen. It's a tough one for the SEC because they need to take those who apply as there aren't enough numbers for them to have a set of criteria to meet. They can't interview us all and reference letters from principals wouldn't be worth the paper they're written on, so I think the very least they could do is up the training. It might not be an excuse for being a tool, but what else can one expect if they don't train people sufficiently?

    What is the 2009 debacle? Is this where the incorrect envelope of papers were opened and paper 2 had to be sat on a Saturday? If so, that is an entirely different situation and has nothing in common with what happened today.

    While it was a different scenario, the SEC discovered the error because the information about Paper 2 was posted on twitter by a student. The point I'm making is posting information about an exam in progress (or given out in error) is a big no-no.

    From what was reported, it was a resource group with 3000 members. Quite a large 'private' group. All of those teachers would have had access to the paper after the exam was finished, and the exams are put up online by the SEC at 7pm every evening.


    The vast majority of people working in special centres in my experience are already working in some capacity within the education system. I'm not sure how much training a person needs in this country to have to be told 'do not take photos of an exam and post them online while the exam is in progress'. There comes a point where an adult has to take personal responsibility for their actions rather than blaming everyone else. The LC gets massive coverage every year for almost the entire month of June in our national media, it's impossible not to know it's going on and the importance attached to it.


  • Options
    #20
    Red F Warrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭Red F Warrior


    _Brian wrote:
    Could anyone really have benifeted from it though ??

    No. Latecomers are only allowed in no more than 20 minutes after the exam has started and anyone leaving is only allowed to, 30 minutes after the exam has started.

    As this was released 30 minutes after the exam has started all students would have been in their centres and any that weren't would not have been allowed in.


  • Options
    #21
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    All you need is another Superintendent not sticking to the rules by (say) letting someone in after the thirty minute deadline and you have a right mess. The rules are there for a reason.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    It literally matters 0%.

    It wasn't leaked in enough time for a single person to benefit from it.


  • Options
    #23
    Spiro66
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭Spiro66


    The point is that nobody on the outside should have a copy of the exam during the duration of the exam to prevent the possibility of secret communication via a hidden electronic device. Someone on the outside could be sending answers in to an earpiece or iwatch for example. All seems unlikely but you never know.


  • Options
    #24
    aon1998
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭aon1998


    Are exam supervisors allowed to be on their phones during the exam? Mine was sitting down the back on his phone and took a fair bit of attention and time to get more paper off him.


  • Options
    #25
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    aon1998 wrote: »
    Are exam supervisors allowed to be on their phones during the exam? Mine was sitting down the back on his phone and took a fair bit of attention and time to get more paper off him.

    No they shouldn't be.
    If he was in my school I wouldn't be long reporting him. Plenty other people who will do the job properly.

    I realise it is a very boring job, having done it in the past, but people know that when they are signing up for it. You having to wait for paper is disgraceful.


  • Options
    #26
    aon1998
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭aon1998


    Would it be worth reporting it? I don't want to get him in serious trouble or anything.


  • Options
    #27
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    aon1998 wrote: »
    Would it be worth reporting it? I don't want to get him in serious trouble or anything.

    Well if you report it, he will be serious trouble. I would just let it go. You weren't half your exam waiting for paper or anything. And at the end of the day, the guidelines state that candidates should have enough paper on the exam paper and extra paper should only be issued IF the candidate has ran out of paper. You should try sitting for up to three hours with nothing to do, it's only natural that the superintendent would have had a small look at his phone but not for long periods. I know he was not meant to but put yourself in his shoes. I'm not in the least condoning it though.


  • Options
    #28
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Well if you report it, he will be serious trouble. I would just let it go. You weren't half your exam waiting for paper or anything. And at the end of the day, the guidelines state that candidates should have enough paper on the exam paper and extra paper should only be issued IF the candidate has ran out of paper. You should try sitting for up to three hours with nothing to do, it's only natural that the superintendent would have had a small look at his phone but not for long periods. I know he was not meant to but put yourself in his shoes. I'm not in the least condoning it though.


    How do you know it was only a small look. A candidate is entitled to ask for extra paper and some papers are Cert tight for time. Leaving them sitting there because the supervisor can't be arsed doing their job is not good enough.

    We don't have to put ourselves in his shoes. He shouldn't be on his phone. If he's not supervising students, it allows an opportunity for cheating to occur. It delays students getting paper. It's a very simple job and anyone who is not able to stay off their phone for three hours while they supervise an exam is an idiot


  • Options
    #29
    aon1998
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭aon1998


    He went down the back at the start of the exam and anytime I looked back he was on the phone. You're literally writing until the last second in the business exam so I was kinda annoyed at him. If he didn't want to sit there for three hours then he should not of signed up for the position.


  • Options
    #30
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    aon1998 wrote: »
    He went down the back at the start of the exam and anytime I looked back he was on the phone. You're literally writing until the last second in the business exam so I was kinda annoyed at him. If he didn't want to sit there for three hours then he should not of signed up for the position.

    He shouldn't have been at the back of the room because that wasted time if a student wanted something as he had to go to student, back to table for whatever and back to student.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    How do you know it was only a small look. A candidate is entitled to ask for extra paper and some papers are Cert tight for time. Leaving them sitting there because the supervisor can't be arsed doing their job is not good enough.

    We don't have to put ourselves in his shoes. He shouldn't be on his phone. If he's not supervising students, it allows an opportunity for cheating to occur. It delays students getting paper. It's a very simple job and anyone who is not able to stay off their phone for three hours while they supervise an exam is an idiot

    Well it was obviously more than a small look according to the annoyed poster which isn't on.


Advertisement