Inquiry into potential LC exam security breach

TheDriver

Chancer3001 wrote: »

It literally matters 0%.

It wasn't leaked in enough time for a single person to benefit from it.

How do we know? The only fact is that it was posted 30 mins after exam started but someone could have got the paper at 9:30. Either way, the rules were broken. And when it comes to SEC exams, those rules are definitely not made for breaking and anyone who does is a complete idiot

TheDriver

If a superintendent is doing anything out of the way e.g. on the phone, then you (or your parents) ring the principal or exam aide to report. They in turn will make a report to the SEC. Its a job that requires someone to keep the high standard that is expected in the operation of the exams. No discretion should be had by fellow teachers or school management when it comes to this.
In my experience, the SEC always want to hear about anything that could be perceived as undermining the process, no matter how small.

aon1998

I think I will report it, I've a few more heavy writing exams so I don't want to sit waiting around again.

r93kaey5p2izun

Report the superintendent. There's no excuse for looking at his phone. Boredom is irrelevant and absolutely not a valid excuse.

Crazyteacher

aon1998 wrote: »

I think I will report it, I've a few more heavy writing exams so I don't want to sit waiting around again.

I would get a parent to mention it to your principal but at the same time you need to dwell on it for too long , concentrate on the rest of your exams. Also don't sit for too long waiting, a quick "superintendent" call out might make him move faster. I know you don't want to disturb the others though.

evolving_doors

Erica Tangy Respirator wrote: »

Report the superintendent. There's no excuse for looking at his phone. Boredom is irrelevant and absolutely not a valid excuse.

Yup report 'em. they are supposed to be giving you their full attention... that includes keeping an eye out for cheating too... when the cats away etc.

Also it's a communication device so I don't think that'd be allowed in the rule books.

With some students the time element is down to the very second, so waiting for some numpty to get off snapchat is a bit of an insult to all the work the students have put in over the years.

Go to the principal / teacher in your school who's organising the exams and say you're not happy.
If you don't think anything is being done about it then ring up the SEC

Customer Service:
Email:customerservice.manager@examinations.ie
Phone: 090-6442851, 6442852
Fax: 090-6442896

Better off if you can get your parents/another teacher who's around to do it as you've enough to be worrying with.
You're probably at the stage where you've gaps in the timetable so it mightn't affect you that much but others will have to suffer under this ignorance, say it to some of your mates aswell if you're stressed. They might do something too.

Don't be afraid to use your voice if they're not paying attention. "Sorry could I get some paper please!!". You've spent nearly 14 years listening to teachers calling out others, it's payback time

Notorious

Erica Tangy Respirator wrote: »

Report the superintendent. There's no excuse for looking at his phone. Boredom is irrelevant and absolutely not a valid excuse.

Not picking on you Erica Tangy Respirator (yours is the shortest post to comment), but I'm surprised at the amount of posters here (I assume most of us are teachers) crying out to report the supervisor. I could give you ten supervisors who I know have used their phones during exams. I get that the SEC rule with an iron fist and do not tolerate it, but I think it's a little extreme. As long as the students have your attention I see no harm in sending a few texts to pass the time.

On a slightly different note, I know an exam secretary who has a Whatsapp group for all the supervisors/readers/scribes. Dead handy for reporting a student who hasn't turned up for an exam, or a separate centre which is missing an exam resource.

rainbowtrout

Notorious wrote: »

Not picking on you Arlessienne (yours is the shortest post to comment), but I'm surprised at the amount of posters here (I assume most of us are teachers) crying out to report the supervisor. I could give you ten supervisors who I know have used their phones during exams. I get that the SEC rule with an iron fist and do not tolerate it, but I think it's a little extreme. As long as the students have your attention I see no harm in sending a few texts to pass the time.

Because if you are texting you are not watching the students, and this could lead to cheating. It only takes a few seconds. More to the point, if a person is being paid to do the job, why can't they just be professional and do the job?

Notorious

rainbowtrout wrote: »

...if a person is being paid to do the job, why can't they just be professional and do the job?

You are doing the job. I'm not suggesting that I support ignoring students and the task at hand. We are all professional; it wouldn't be professional to get lost in your phone or fall asleep on the job. You can send a text while keeping an eye on everything going on in the room.

rainbowtrout

Notorious wrote: »

You are doing the job. I'm not suggesting that I support ignoring students and the task at hand. We are all professional; it wouldn't be professional to get lost in your phone or fall asleep on the job. You can send a text while keeping an eye on everything going on in the room.

People look at their phones when they send texts, not at everything else going on around them. Pubs and cafes are full of people texting and not looking at anything going on in their surroundings. People have car accidents because their eyes are on their phones and not on the road. Why would exam supervisors suddenly have the ability to keep an eye on everything going on in the room when their eyes are on the screen?

Notorious

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why would exam supervisors suddenly have the ability to keep an eye on everything going on in the room when their eyes are on the screen?

Type a word or two, look around. Rinse and repeat. Students cheating in an exam are pretty obvious.

red_fox

Mistakes can happen and attention will wane over the course of the exam but it's not hard to keep on top of everything as it is.

The rule serves in part as a precaution that distraction can occur and what any of us can do safely matters less than what we should be doing. I'm generally happy to argue against rules I disagree with but I see a reason for this, it cannot be permitted as a free for all, and I struggle to imagine how one could set a rule of maximum use other than a ban (no more than three seconds of screen viewing in any 10 seconds and a total not exceeding five minutes in any hour).

Crazyteacher

I honestly don't know how superintendents have time to be looking at their phones. It's non stop from the minute I get in to the centre. Even when I am sitting I'm scanning the room.

evolving_doors

Notorious wrote: »

You are doing the job. I'm not suggesting that I support ignoring students and the task at hand. We are all professional; it wouldn't be professional to get lost in your phone or fall asleep on the job. You can send a text while keeping an eye on everything going on in the exam

Can it not wait till after the exam?

If it's so urgent then get the exams officer to cover you for 5 minutes.

man_no_plan

You either have a rule or you don't.

In most schools students aren't allowed phones in class. Should we say that if its only an odd text its okay once the work is done?

This constant erosion of standards and double standards for teachers really pisses me off.

CWF

The reality is the SEC can't afford to sack and get new superintendents, they simply aren't there. Very few want to do it anymore, it can be a pain of a job, depending where your school is, what the kids are like etc. This year in particular they are scraping the bottom of the barrell. In my centre this year they had to call someone from the ''extended reserve panel''. They were only given 12 hours notice and didn't even receive the training!!!

rainbowtrout

CWF wrote: »

The reality is the SEC can't afford to sack and get new superintendents, they simply aren't there. Very few want to do it anymore, it can be a pain of a job, depending where your school is, what the kids are like etc. This year in particular they are scraping the bottom of the barrell. In my centre this year they had to call someone from the ''extended reserve panel''. They were only given 12 hours notice and didn't even receive the training!!!

It doesn't mean superintendents should take the piss and lower the standards.

CWF

man_no_plan wrote: »

You either have a rule or you don't.

In most schools students aren't allowed phones in class. Should we say that if its only an odd text its okay once the work is done?

This constant erosion of standards and double standards for teachers really pisses me off.

Constant erosion of standards, care to elaborate? Also many people doing superintendent are retired which kind of goes against what you're saying, superintendent does not equal teaching.

CWF

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It doesn't mean superintendents should take the piss and lower the standards.

My point is report all you want but the sad situation is that it's highly unlikely that they'll get sacked

Bananaleaf

Gebgbegb wrote: »

You've spent nearly 14 years listening to teachers calling out others, it's payback time

This (bold) is a very odd way of viewing the situation imo.

Notorious wrote: »

Type a word or two, look around. Rinse and repeat. Students cheating in an exam are pretty obvious.

I see where you are coming from with your point but ....

red_fox wrote: »

I struggle to imagine how one could set a rule of maximum use other than a ban (no more than three seconds of screen viewing in any 10 seconds and a total not exceeding five minutes in any hour).

this is the issue really. It's not allowed yet there are many who do it anyway. Allow 'the odd text' and they'll be catching up on Netflix next.

CWF wrote: »

The reality is the SEC can't afford to sack and get new superintendents, they simply aren't there. Very few want to do it anymore, it can be a pain of a job

I'm sorry (and this isn't aimed at you) but anyone who says superintending is a "pain of a job" must do nothing all year round. It is the easiest money I earn all year.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It doesn't mean superintendents should take the piss and lower the standards.

There is more lowering of standards going on within the schools than there is by the superintendents. We are doing the best job out of anyone. I won't get into it, but see this craic of 'toilet breaks' 'separate centre superintendents' and the attendants outside the doors - there are SO MANY holes in the system, the superintendents (even the ones on their phones) are the reason that there is any integrity left!

rainbowtrout

I think you need to read my post in the context of the preceding posts rather than on its own bananaleaf. I'm not in favour of superintendents using phones at all

Bananaleaf

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think you need to read my post in the context of the preceding posts rather than on its own bananaleaf. I'm not in favour of superintendents using phones at all

No I get that, and I appreciate that. I am not in favour of it either. But the point I was wishing to make is that a superintendent being on his or her phone is a very mild issue in comparison to some of the things I have witnessed in my time as (a) teacher, (b) superintendent and (c) separate centre superintendent.

Apologies if the post sounded like a dig at you, it's not. I get where you are coming from. My post is a passive-agressive attack on the system because I'm too apathetic to raise my issues with the SEC to be totally honest, but it still bothers me immensely all the same.

rainbowtrout

Bananaleaf wrote: »

No I get that, and I appreciate that. I am not in favour of it either. But the point I was wishing to make is that a superintendent being on his or her phone is a very mild issue in comparison to some of the things I have witnessed in my time as (a) teacher, (b) superintendent and (c) separate centre superintendent.

Apologies if the post sounded like a dig at you, it's not. I get where you are coming from. My post is a passive-agressive attack on the system because I'm too apathetic to raise my issues with the SEC to be totally honest, but it still bothers me immensely all the same.

Things can't improve if issues aren't reported.

TheDriver

Bananaleaf wrote: »

No I get that, and I appreciate that. I am not in favour of it either. But the point I was wishing to make is that a superintendent being on his or her phone is a very mild issue in comparison to some of the things I have witnessed in my time as (a) teacher, (b) superintendent and (c) separate centre superintendent.

Apologies if the post sounded like a dig at you, it's not. I get where you are coming from. My post is a passive-agressive attack on the system because I'm too apathetic to raise my issues with the SEC to be totally honest, but it still bothers me immensely all the same.

Unfortunately a small crime is still a crime and undermines the integrity. Could you give us some examples of that you witnessed (without giving any identity of yourself/school/student away? I am all for reporting things to the SEC and the Principal (if I wasn't one). I get a fair few reports every year from students/parents/other supervisors etc etc. All of which get reported to the SEC which my colleagues in all other schools also do.

doc_17

I have no evidence at all to back this up, but I'd say the amount of cheating that goes on is increasing on a yearly basis. All those students heading to the toilet with access a device that can store every single page of their text books?

Am I alone in thinking that? Am I being unfair to our students?

evolving_doors

doc_17 wrote: »

I have no evidence at all to back this up, but I'd say the amount of cheating that goes on is increasing on a yearly basis. All those students heading to the toilet with access a device that can store every single page of their text books?

Am I alone in thinking that? Am I being unfair to our students?

That's always going to be a hot zone. Although Just from invigilation I didn't notice any mass exits to the jacks on a large scale. That could have changed in the last few years since I did it.

I think though if you don't know material that well and are relying on cheating, you're going to forget a lot by the time you get back to your seat... it might be enough to give an edge though , maybe with maths you could get the crucial steps from symbolab or wolfram app.
If it's any consolation phones aren't allowed into the exam hall so it might be too risky trying to get one on the way or in the toilets. Maybe if they upped the penalty and stressed the ban a bit more to students.

It would be interesting if the SEC kept tabs on toilet breaks and stuck that into a bell curve to look for trends :pac:

Teachers not paying attention just encourages cheating IMO. If I were of that disposition and I knew that the invigilator was always tapping on their phone down the back I'd be tempted to exploit the gap in the fence for the next exam. It'd also annoy the heck out of me if I saw another student consistently exploiting this while I was trying to go on my own steam.

Don't forget that all those grades for that centre's pile contribute to the correctors bell curve. So could that cheating fiend who's getting extra marks be pushing another student down?.. consider if the corrector is getting too many high grades and their advisor wants to 'review the borderline grades'.

We tell the students just to focus on their own exam, but really in some very competitive environments students know they may be competing with their classmates for the same course. Hence why it can add to stress.

doc_17

Yeah I know that the phones are banned from the hall. But if they have them turned off it's most likely that the superintendent won't see/find them or even go looking for them. Walk to the toilet, turn it on and check 3/4 things. I'm not saying it'll turn a C into an A, but......

mirrorwall14

What are the actual penalties for cheating?

Bananaleaf

TheDriver wrote: »

Could you give us some examples of that you witnessed (without giving any identity of yourself/school/student away?

I don't really want to give examples, I feel uncomfortable even bringing this up. But I will. I'm keeping it very vague though.

1. Attendants at the doors are useless. Most of the time (in all cases in my experience) they are 5th yr students in the school. Peers of the candidates and quite possibly friends (could they even be siblings? I don't know how stringently the appointment of attendants is monitored.) I was under the impression they were supposed to accompany the candidates who leave the centre to the toilets. That isn't happening in all centres.

2. Attendants at the doors are useless. I once had to open the door to shush candidates who had left an exam early and were discussing their answers right outside my door. You could hear what they were discussing plain as day. What was the attendant at? Watching stuff on their iphone/ipod.

3. One year two students from two different centres met eachother en route to toilet....

4. Some students having up to 7 different 'readers' for their 7 exams in their separate centre. DO NOT tell me that this doesn't happen, although I accept that it is probably an extremely rare occurrence.

5. This one I have no proof of, but you'll never convince me that there isn't a load of cheating going on every year. Toilet breaks not supervised, with some kids going up to 4 times in the one exam. It's an absolute joke.

Not saying this happens in all centres or schools. I know it doesn't. But it is happening in some places.

Have had the argument with colleagues about the whole "Well you can't stop them going to the toilet" Yes you can. Shorten exams to 2.5hrs max and have 3 papers if needs be. No toilet break. If you want to go, fine, but you don't come back.

In fairness to the SEC, they're doing all they can at their end. Provisions put in place for storage and transportation of exams and stationery is brilliant. But it all just goes to sh1t within the schools.

*runs off to double-check profile to make sure he's not identifiable*

CWF

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I don't really want to give examples, I feel uncomfortable even bringing this up. But I will. I'm keeping it very vague though.

1. Attendants at the doors are useless. Most of the time (in all cases in my experience) they are 5th yr students in the school. Peers of the candidates and quite possibly friends (could they even be siblings? I don't know how stringently the appointment of attendants is monitored.) I was under the impression they were supposed to accompany the candidates who leave the centre to the toilets. That isn't happening in all centres.

2. Attendants at the doors are useless. I once had to open the door to shush candidates who had left an exam early and were discussing their answers right outside my door. You could hear what they were discussing plain as day. What was the attendant at? Watching stuff on their iphone/ipod.

3. One year two students from two different centres met eachother en route to toilet....

4. Some students having up to 7 different 'readers' for their 7 exams in their separate centre. DO NOT tell me that this doesn't happen, although I accept that it is probably an extremely rare occurrence.

5. This one I have no proof of, but you'll never convince me that there isn't a load of cheating going on every year. Toilet breaks not supervised, with some kids going up to 4 times in the one exam. It's an absolute joke.

Not saying this happens in all centres or schools. I know it doesn't. But it is happening in some places.

Have had the argument with colleagues about the whole "Well you can't stop them going to the toilet" Yes you can. Shorten exams to 2.5hrs max and have 3 papers if needs be. No toilet break. If you want to go, fine, but you don't come back.

In fairness to the SEC, they're doing all they can at their end. Provisions put in place for storage and transportation of exams and stationery is brilliant. But it all just goes to sh1t within the schools.

*runs off to double-check profile to make sure he's not identifiable*

That's bull crap saying to have a 2.5 hour exam with no toilet break
1.
B.How dare you say attendants at the door are useless. You haven't seen all of the attendants so you can't comment on this.
4. Your attendant is your responsibility. If they are on their phone/tablet/reading then you're liable.
(V) . Get a life.