Cleaning deposit for rented properties

shivral

Hi folks,

just wanted to get some opinions about the cleaning deposit that some letting agents request on top of the standard one month's deposit + one month's rent in advance. I thought that the standard deposit was designed to cover any issues regarding cleaning and unreasonable wear and tear - no?; since when the rented properties must be deep cleaned by the cleaning companies out of the tenants pocket (also meaning that the cleaning deposit is unlikely to be returned at the end of tenancy)? This is frustrating. It's hard to find anything reasonable in Dublin as it is and now this cleaning deposit trend seems to be creeping in but I can's see anything about it legislation wise.
Thanks in advance.

Baby01032012

Never heard of a cleaning deposit...id suggest to stay clear of those
Security deposit plus months rent in advance is normal...however higher security deposit is becoming more of the norm. Security would cover anything above normal wear and tear. Cleaning wise you should certainly return it in the condition you received the accomodation in.

pilly

I've never heard of it either. Sounds to me like agents trying to rip people off there. How much is it OP? As high as a month's rent?

shivral

The cleaning deposit was 200 euros on top of 1200 rent and 1200 security deposit. We were asked to bring the total amount of 2600 to the viewing and present it if we were accepted as tenants. On top of that they asked for our 3 most recent payslips with all the other standard documents. And just for the records it is a professional letting agent, not a private person potential scam.
I was pretty shocked to be asked for all that but it's been a while since I had to look for a place so I thought I ask here. I've no intention of going to see this place after their email with all these requests but it seems to me that if I try to protect my privacy and my money I might not be able to find anything decent.

cruizer101

Only heard of cleaning deposit when there was pets involved and so an extra deposit was given to potentially cover extra cleaning due to the pets

Claw Hammer

It is all a deposit. If they try to keep it at the end for cleaning you can complain to the RTB. The deposit can only be used to cover damage beyond normal wear and tear and lost rent.

Browney7

Well, if you are given the property deep cleaned and LL has pics and receipts to this effect wouldn't and shouldn't you have to give it back in a deep cleaned state?

Claw Hammer

Browney7 wrote: »

Well, if you are given the property deep cleaned and LL has pics and receipts to this effect wouldn't and shouldn't you have to give it back in a deep cleaned state?

No. If normal wear and tear makes it less clean, tough on the landlord.

jamesthepeach

Claw Hammer wrote: »

No. If normal wear and tear makes it less clean, tough on the landlord.

Dirt isn't normal wear and tear.
But if it's as clean as you got it then no reason that you would lose that portion of the deposit.
I thought everyone we charging 1 month in advance plus 2 months deposit now anyway.

When I rented in new York we had to pay a decoration fee.
It was $500 on top of first and last months rent plus deposit.
You didn't get the 500 back. That was just for cleaning and redecorating after you moved out to put the place back into the same state of repair you rented it in.

Ms Doubtfire1

You should return the property in the same state it was in. Anything else is unacceptable in my view. You don't return a clean property dirty. Normal wear and tear does not include leaving dirt behind...>yuk>

Claw Hammer

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Dirt isn't normal wear and tear.
But if it's as clean as you got it then no reason that you would lose that portion of the deposit.
I thought everyone we charging 1 month in advance plus 2 months deposit now anyway.

When I rented in new York we had to pay a decoration fee.
It was $500 on top of first and last months rent plus deposit.
You didn't get the 500 back. That was just for cleaning and redecorating after you moved out to put the place back into the same state of repair you rented it in.

This is not New York, things are different here. The RTB does not enfoce a give back what you got standard. A carpet may have been professionally cleaned before being given to a teant. At the end of the letting the tenant does not have to have it professionally cleaned again. Carpets in the normal cours suffer wear and collect some dirt. That is normal wear and tear. Unless items are destroyed and are beyond repair will the RTB hold the tenant responsible.

jamesthepeach

Claw Hammer wrote: »

This is not New York, things are different here. The RTB does not enfoce a give back what you got standard. A carpet may have been professionally cleaned before being given to a teant. At the end of the letting the tenant does not have to have it professionally cleaned again. Carpets in the normal cours suffer wear and collect some dirt. That is normal wear and tear. Unless items are destroyed and are beyond repair will the RTB hold the tenant responsible.

Well we all know we aren't in new York and that the RTB is totally on a "fvuk the landlord" mission.

I'm just telling you how things are done in a place where it is done properly.

wordofwarning

I imagine the agent is protecting the landlord from the usual Irish tenant, who seems to the think the deposit is to 'cover for the last month rent'. If the tenant does that, landlord has no protection for getting a potential cleaning paid for.

IMO I think tenants should be made pay for a deep cleaning from a professional. Even giving a tenant, a blow by blow account of what they are to clean eg dust above skirting, remove scuff marks with Cif, vacuum under bed etc. I have yet to see a 4 bedroom house, where I haven't had to spent 3/4 hours cleaning it after the tenant 'cleaned it'. Some tenants think emptying the bins and washing the floor is a sufficient cleaning

_Kaiser_

wordofwarning wrote: »

I imagine the agent is protecting the landlord from the usual Irish tenant, who seems to the think the deposit is to 'cover for the last month rent'. If the tenant does that, landlord has no protection for getting a potential cleaning paid for.

IMO I think tenants should be made pay for a deep cleaning from a professional. Even giving a tenant, a blow by blow account of what they are to clean eg dust above skirting, remove scuff marks with Cif, vacuum under bed etc. I have yet to see a 4 bedroom house, where I haven't had to spent 3/4 hours cleaning it after the tenant 'cleaned it'. Some tenants think emptying the bins and washing the floor is a sufficient cleaning

And for balance, there's many "professional agents" who don't bother with such things before letting to a new tenant/customer either.

When I moved into my current place it certainly hadn't been "deep cleaned" or really cleaned at all, the kettle had to be thrown out and replaced straight away due to the amount of limescale damage, and the bathrooms needed a good scrub as well.

I don't mind so much as I did all these things without making an issue of it, but I certainly won't be paying for "professional cleaning" or listening to similar excuses when it comes to getting my deposit back. The place will in fact be in better shape than I got it as indeed it is already now.

jamesthepeach

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And for balance, there's many "professional agents" who don't bother with such things before letting to a new tenant/customer either.

When I moved into my current place it certainly hadn't been "deep cleaned" or really cleaned at all, the kettle had to be thrown out and replaced straight away due to the amount of limescale damage, and the bathrooms needed a good scrub as well.

I don't mind so much as I did all these things without making an issue of it, but I certainly won't be paying for "professional cleaning" or listening to similar excuses when it comes to getting my deposit back. The place will in fact be in better shape than I got it as indeed it is already now.

I would have loved a tenant like you.

_Kaiser_

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I would have loved a tenant like you.

I'll give you a shout when I'm on the lookout again

But seriously, I have always done the same. I treat it as a professional service with a blt of cop on and accommodation (no pun intended ) when needed. I don't bother them unnecessarily and vice versa, and the rent is always paid first come pay-day.

I completely get that there are a lot of tenants out there who treat it as a "who cares" necessary evil on the glorious road to ownership, but there are a lot of professional, mature people (like myself) out there too who just want to rent a decent place with a decent landlord, and without all the drama you read about on this forum.

jamesthepeach

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'll give you a shout when I'm on the lookout again

But seriously, I have always done the same. I treat it as a professional service with a blt of cop on and accommodation (no pun intended ) when needed. I don't bother them unnecessarily and vice versa, and the rent is always paid first come pay-day.

I completely get that there are a lot of tenants out there who treat it as a "who cares" necessary evil on the glorious road to ownership, but there are a lot of professional, mature people (like myself) out there too who just want to rent a decent place with a decent landlord, and without all the drama you read about on this forum.

I once had a tenant who gave me back.the place better than I gave it to her. I didn't think it was possible. She was fantastic. Few and far between though.

_Kaiser_

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I once had a tenant who gave me back.the place better than I gave it to her. I didn't think it was possible. She was fantastic. Few and far between though.

Well the way I look at it is that it's the LL's property, but my home while I'm there - and I like a clean, tidy place. To me it's just about me being comfortable.

mrslancaster

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well the way I look at it is that it's the LL's property, but my home while I'm there - and I like a clean, tidy place. To me it's just about me being comfortable.

just curious about 'routine inspections' & if they would be the normal way a LL & tenant covered the question of reasonable wear and tear? how often would be typical for inspections?

never heard of a cleaning deposit before,,is this a new charge on tenants

crossmolinalad

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And for balance, there's many "professional agents" who don't bother with such things before letting to a new tenant/customer either.

When I moved into my current place it certainly hadn't been "deep cleaned" or really cleaned at all, the kettle had to be thrown out and replaced straight away due to the amount of limescale damage, and the bathrooms needed a good scrub as well.

I don't mind so much as I did all these things without making an issue of it, but I certainly won't be paying for "professional cleaning" or listening to similar excuses when it comes to getting my deposit back. The place will in fact be in better shape than I got it as indeed it is already now.

Wish that the houses you renting were empty
Al the stuff in it are most of the time rubbish tasteless stuff nobody wants
Every house I ever rented we used one bedroom to put in all the furniture carpets kitchen stuff and "decorations" in owned by the landlord
Repainting and decorating the house in decent colors and putting in normal looking floorings
Putting in our own white goods (wont use rubbish from others) and our own furniture
loads of landlords don't have any taste of color schemes they have all of them the magnolia sickness ,seen furniture they don't want them their self so dump it in the house we letting out Carpets are left overs or cheap stuff nobody wants
Same in the kitchen cutlery plates mugs whatever its something from everything coming from their own kitchen or a recycling/charity shop
Don't understand the system here , most of the EU countries you renting an empty house The tenant has to bring his/her own stuff in and has when they leaving ,left the house empty again

jamesthepeach

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Wish that the houses you renting were empty
Al the stuff in it are most of the time rubbish tasteless stuff nobody wants
Every house I ever rented we used one bedroom to put in all the furniture carpets kitchen stuff and "decorations" in owned by the landlord
Repainting and decorating the house in decent colors and putting in normal looking floorings
Putting in our own white goods (wont use rubbish from others) and our own furniture
loads of landlords don't have any taste of color schemes they have all of them the magnolia sickness ,seen furniture they don't want them their self so dump it in the house we letting out Carpets are left overs or cheap stuff nobody wants
Same in the kitchen cutlery plates mugs whatever its something from everything coming from their own kitchen or a recycling/charity shop
Don't understand the system here , most of the EU countries you renting an empty house The tenant has to bring his/her own stuff in and has when they leaving ,left the house empty again

It's the law to have the white goods.

crossmolinalad

jamesthepeach wrote: »

It's the law to have the white goods.

Stupid law it is
I don't like used rubbish from someone else
It will be time they gonna change that law

Pkiernan

Clean tenants have nothing to fear from cleaning deposits. Only dirty tenants do.

_Kaiser_

Pkiernan wrote: »

Clean tenants have nothing to fear from cleaning deposits. Only dirty tenants do.

That's not the point.. it's an eventuality that is supposed to be covered by the security deposit, not an excuse by some chancer agency/LL to try and squeeze a few hundred more from a tenant.

I wouldn't be entertaining it anyway and, as above, I've left most places I've rented better than I found them.

Pkiernan

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That's not the point.. it's an eventuality that is supposed to be covered by the security deposit, not an excuse by some chancer agency/LL to try and squeeze a few hundred more from a tenant.

I wouldn't be entertaining it anyway and, as above, I've left most places I've rented better than I found them.

No silly...it's a cleaning deposit to ensure the dwelling is returned clean.

A security deposit is for damage.
Decent people will get their cleaning deposit back.
Why should a LL be on the hook when some filthy pigs leave his/her property dirty?

wordofwarning

jamesthepeach wrote: »

It's the law to have the white goods.

IMO the most bizarre is a 4 ring hob rule. It is probably a half baked attempt to outlaw tenements, but when is a single person in a studio apartment likely to use the 4 ring collectively? Even with a massive spread at Xmas, I use 3 rings at most and one of them is for a few mins.

You can will see incredible apartments in Germany, Italy and Spain with only 2 rings as that is all most people need. But Irish people still need 4 rings under the law

I think the funniest is when tenants first move in and you get calls about the broken oven or the washing machine not draining. You call the former tenants only to discover either they never used the washing machine in 2 years or they only used the oven twice, so they don't know if it is broken. Yet you have to supply appliances to tenants who will never use them

jamesthepeach

wordofwarning wrote: »

IMO the most bizarre is a 4 ring hob rule. It is probably a half baked attempt to outlaw tenements, but when is a single person in a studio apartment likely to use the 4 ring collectively? Even with a massive spread at Xmas, I use 3 rings at most and one of them is for a few mins.

You can will see incredible apartments in Germany, Italy and Spain with only 2 rings as that is all most people need. But Irish people still need 4 rings under the law

I think the funniest is when tenants first move in and you get calls about the broken oven or the washing machine not draining. You call the former tenants only to discover either they never used the washing machine in 2 years or they only used the oven twice, so they don't know if it is broken. Yet you have to supply appliances to tenants who will never use them

Im sure most landlords who are rent locked below market rate would love to go unfurnished.
Less rent available for the property soul mean less on it to cost you money in the long run. I'm sure many tenants would be happy with this residually if they are getting on cheap

Claw Hammer

jamesthepeach wrote: »

It's the law to have the white goods.

They don't have to be white. I had a yellow fridge freezer once. The environmental inspector didn't complain about it.

jamesthepeach

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They don't have to be white. I had a yellow fridge freezer once. The environmental inspector didn't complain about it.

I bet the RTB would find against you though