Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Apparently, yes.

Everyone is saying that the stuff which is required is getting to PR. The problem is getting it from the ports and airports to the rest of the island. For that, they are dependent on the island's internal distribution system, which is still broken until all those roads get opened, presumably one roadblock at a time. See the military interview I just linked to above, or http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/us/puerto-rico-aid-problem/index.html

So what is Trump talking about saying that its an island etc etc. Are you just dismissing what he himself is actually saying?

You also must know, that it is FEMA;s job to get over the difficulties. In effect what you are saying is that Trump managed to do well in Texas and Florida because things were easier and now its more difficult he struggles?

MadYaker

backspin. wrote: »

The people at that event would be everything from working class pay as you play golfers right up to rich exclusive club golfers. Yes it was a fairly white crowd. But there were no boos at all. Plenty of cheering. I expected him to be snubbed by players and booed by the crowd. He wasn't. He is not as hated as the media would like you to believe.

Working class people at a golf course in New York? Get real. I just checked the website. The cheapest tickets I could find were $140. http://www.ticketmaster.com/presidents-cup-jersey-city-new-jersey-10-01-2017/event/000050F9762210D4?artistid=1333236&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=30#efeat4211

Even if it wasn't blatantly obvious that it's an event for rich white men you're taking a small amount of people at a golf course as a genuine representative of the entirety of the 300 million+ people that live in the US. Do I need to explain to you how illogical that is?

I have yet to see any media outlets going on about how hated Trump is, at least no reputable ones anyway. He does however have very low approval ratings, the lowest I think, for any president at this stage of his first term http://www.ticketmaster.com/presidents-cup-jersey-city-new-jersey-10-01-2017/event/000050F9762210D4?artistid=1333236&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=30#efeat4211

That website combines poll results, both conservative and liberal. he isn't popular.

backspin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadYaker View Post
Working class people at a golf course in New York? Get real. I just checked the website. The cheapest tickets I could find were $140. http://www.ticketmaster.com/presiden...d=30#efeat4211

Even if it wasn't blatantly obvious that it's an event for rich white men you're taking a small amount of people at a golf course as a genuine representative of the entirety of the 300 million+ people that live in the US. Do I need to explain to you how illogical that is?

I have yet to see any media outlets going on about how hated Trump is, at least no reputable ones anyway. He does however have very low approval ratings, the lowest I think, for any president at this stage of his first term http://www.ticketmaster.com/presiden...d=30#efeat4211

That website combines poll results, both conservative and liberal. he isn't popular.
Would he be less or more popular among white working class Americans. Aren't those the people who are supposed to have got him elected?

How would he be received at a NASCAR race in the mid west or the south?

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

Are you just dismissing what he himself is actually saying?

Well... yes. Doesn't everyone?

You also must know, that it is FEMA;s job to get over the difficulties. In effect what you are saying is that Trump managed to do well in Texas and Florida because things were easier and now its more difficult he struggles?

I'm not saying anything about Trump. I'm saying that FEMA and the military has apparently gotten supplies to the island, and that the supplies are not yet getting to where they need to go because the road network is a mess. Since nobody is complaining about a lack of road clearing equipment or personnel, and everyone is saying 'This will simply take however long it takes', this whole business about Trump and Cruz is, frankly, a red herring.

Wife's cousin just asked us to send her a generator to keep her fridge running. She's a nurse, her hospital is operating, but power hasn't been restored to her village yet. "Maybe you had better let us know how you expect this thing to get to you, because everything we're hearing indicates that the electricity is more likely to get restored than for Fed Ex to deliver one of those things"

Roanmore

backspin. wrote: »

The people at that event would be everything from working class pay as you play golfers right up to rich exclusive club golfers. Yes it was a fairly white crowd. But there were no boos at all. Plenty of cheering. I expected him to be snubbed by players and booed by the crowd. He wasn't. He is not as hated as the media would like you to believe.

I think there was a graph a few pages back which showed golf to be the most Republican leaning sport, no reason for the players to snub him, they are his constituency.
At the height of the bailout here Brian Cowen was still being cheered by FF supporters wherever he went, how did the election work out for him?

Zubeneschamali

Roanmore wrote: »

I think there was a graph a few pages back which showed golf to be the most Republican leaning sport

Also overwhelmingly white.

Billy86

Celticfire wrote: »

So it seems that when San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz has been busy spending her time getting t shirts and hats printed up (a remarkable feat considering the lack of power on the island) she hasn't bothered participating in any meeting with FEMA or other federal agencies.

If anyone is curious where this story is from as a link wasn't given, it is Tucker Carlon's Daily Caller.

rossie1977

Roanmore wrote: »

I think there was a graph a few pages back which showed golf to be the most Republican leaning sport, no reason for the players to snub him, they are his constituency.
At the height of the bailout here Brian Cowen was still being cheered by FF supporters wherever he went, how did the election work out for him?

That's the graph I posted. Golf fans are the most leaning Republican and the most likely to vote

Samaris

Billy86 wrote: »

If anyone is curious where this story is from as a link wasn't given, it is Tucker Carlon's Daily Caller.

Doesn't surprise me. Trump will use anything he can to have a go at someone who dared call him out, that is to be expected. Unfortunately, his supporters will also turn on whoever he calls out and to hell if the person is coping with a natural disaster (and a national disaster too).

It's disgusting, petty, pathetic...but it keeps happening.

But hey, Trump dedicated a golf tournament cup he was awarding to the victims of Puerto Rico, so that solves everything.

The response was poorly handled. Started off well, faltered badly because there was no follow-through from the administration. Trump's main contribution was stumbling over why the Jones Act wasn't waived ("there were many ..uh..in shipping that didn't want it lifted" - mild paraphrasing for memory) and making digs at the state of PR before the storm hit. Oh, and now having a go at the mayor for making him look bad by begging for help for her people.

Some leader. Some followers.

Zubeneschamali

Charts on income and ethnicity of fans here.

The only fans more likely than a golf crowd to cheer Trump are Hockey fans, who are even whiter and wealthier. i wonder how much Tiger affected these numbers?

Hande hoche!

Samaris wrote: »

Doesn't surprise me. Trump will use anything he can to have a go at someone who dared call him out, that is to be expected. Unfortunately, his supporters will also turn on whoever he calls out and to hell if the person is coping with a natural disaster (and a national disaster too).

It's disgusting, petty, pathetic...but it keeps happening.

But hey, Trump dedicated a golf tournament cup he was awarding to the victims of Puerto Rico, so that solves everything.

The response was poorly handled. Started off well, faltered badly because there was no follow-through from the administration. Trump's main contribution was stumbling over why the Jones Act wasn't waived ("there were many ..uh..in shipping that didn't want it lifted" - mild paraphrasing for memory) and making digs at the state of PR before the storm hit. Oh, and now having a go at the mayor for making him look bad by begging for help for her people.

Some leader. Some followers.

It's particularly jarring given his reasonable (by low standards) response to Florida and Texas.

MadYaker

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Charts on income and ethnicity of fans here.

The only fans more likely than a golf crowd to cheer Trump are Hockey fans, who are even whiter and wealthier. i wonder how much Tiger affected these numbers?

That's interesting. I would have thought hockey would be a bit more working class. But I suppose the white working class voted for him in large numbers too.

Captain_Crash

MadYaker wrote: »

That's interesting. I would have thought hockey would be a bit more working class. But I suppose the white working class voted for him in large numbers too.

I often find there is a correlation of class vs cost of equipment in sport...

not many public schools play rugby here, due to the cost of the equipment... hence generally only people who attend private school grow up playing/supporting it, same with golf. Clubs and membership aren't cheap so generally the people who play frequently are of well means and so on.

Again, this is just something I've noticed over the years and I could be way way off the mark. But looking at Hockey and Golf both being expensive sports to play, where as Basketball is cheap and has a large population of "less well off" people playing. Football (American kind) and Nascar seem to be the exceptions

VinLieger

Captain_Crash wrote: »

not many public schools play rugby here, due to the cost of the equipment...

Sorry this is completely offtopic but i had to ask this

Ehh what cost of what equipment is there in Rugby compared to soccer and GAA? There's 1 piece of optional padding and a gumshield required that's not required for soccer or GAA, id hardly call it an economic blocker for people to get involved...... sure a hurl and a helmet probably cost about the same

alchemist33

Trump's reaction to the Las Vegas massacre will be interesting. So far he's just made one tweet, giving his "warmest condolences", which is a novel turn of phrase.

Igotadose

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I often find there is a correlation of class vs cost of equipment in sport...

not many public schools play rugby here, due to the cost of the equipment... hence generally only people who attend private school grow up playing/supporting it, same with golf. Clubs and membership aren't cheap so generally the people who play frequently are of well means and so on.

Again, this is just something I've noticed over the years and I could be way way off the mark. But looking at Hockey and Golf both being expensive sports to play, where as Basketball is cheap and has a large population of "less well off" people playing. Football (American kind) and Nascar seem to be the exceptions

I recall golf teams at the HS level 40+ years ago when I attended, so not quite 'only private schools.' More likely there, though, and likely that the players will have had more training and better opportunities due to wealthier upbringings.

As for rugby, I think the issue there with US sports is the insurance. Hockey is amazingly expensive for kids, chatted with a lad once who showed me a picture of his early-teenaged son who was mad for hockey and played goalie. Typical "good" equipment for a goalie at that age was like $3000. This was probably 10 years ago, too.

Water John

Very sad at that awful massacare. The guy had 12 rifles!!!

Captain_Crash

VinLieger wrote: »

Sorry this is completely offtopic but i had to ask this

Ehh what cost of what equipment is there in Rugby compared to soccer and GAA? There's 1 piece of optional padding and a gumshield required that's not required for soccer or GAA, id hardly call it an economic blocker for people to get involved...... sure a hurl and a helmet probably cost about the same

As you said, lets not get too off topic, but its not so much the gear you wear when playing, its training equipment that the school/club has to provide. The cost of all the tackle bags that need regular replacing, pads on the posts, scrum machines (which run into the 1000's), grounds keeping which needs more attention plus insurance which is higher. Like I said, I have no data to back it up, its just something I've noticed and mused at in the past (and have seen the amount of money my club has spent in the past 5 years, and consider by subs to be cheap in comparison).

Manic Moran

Can't say Trump's speech was the best one I've ever heard. That said, given the utter absence of any information to give, there also wasn't much he could say other than "Federal departments are helping out". Two things did strike me. One was all the praying he's apparently doing, which I'm sure is useful, and also that the wounded and bereaved have our support. What level of tangible support this will be, I am curious to see.

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can't say Trump's speech was the best one I've ever heard. That said, given the utter absence of any information to give, there also wasn't much he could say other than "Federal departments are helping out". Two things did strike me. One was all the praying he's apparently doing, which I'm sure is useful, and also that the wounded and bereaved have our support. What level of tangible support this will be, I am curious to see.

To be fair - he has no problem giving speeches with no information when it suits his narrative.

The reason he is careful this time is because the suspect was white and the focus will be on the NRA.

recedite

Seems to have been quite a few off duty police killed. Was it some kind of policemans ball, or is it just that a lot of them have a fondness for the 'ol country and western?

recedite

recedite wrote: »

Seems to have been quite a few off duty police killed. Was it some kind of policemans ball, or is it just that a lot of them have a fondness for the 'ol country and western?

What's "quite a few"?

Pelvis

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can't say Trump's speech was the best one I've ever heard. That said, given the utter absence of any information to give, there also wasn't much he could say other than "Federal departments are helping out". Two things did strike me. One was all the praying he's apparently doing, which I'm sure is useful, and also that the wounded and bereaved have our support. What level of tangible support this will be, I am curious to see.

I'd rather the bloke who wrote the speech read it out instead. The words are well meaning, but completely insincere when they leave Trumps mouth.

I mean, Trump referring to "Scripture" is just laughable. He just can't be taken seriously in any capacity.

20Cent

"Warmest condolences" said like someone with no idea how to express empathy or speak english.

recedite

Deleted User wrote: »

What's "quite a few"?

Not sure, but the local Sheriff mentioned one of his own that was off duty, plus some from out of town.

MadYaker

I think 2 off duty police were killed?

The silence from prominent right wingers in the US is fairly deafening when the perp is an old white guy...

looksee

Even if Trump were to go tomorrow, how long will it take the US to recover from the experience of having him in charge? He is creating a sense of insecurity and confusion that, along with the minute by minute reporting of such things as the hurricanes and now the Vagas shooting, is going to continue to create waves of upset so that society is likely to become even more disfunctional that it already is.

He has divided the country and proved what was already suspected, that there is a core of really dumb people who have no idea what the role of an effective president is. At this stage all of government seems to be conducted on twitter - and since the main man cannot string a coherent sentence together, how can anyone guess what is actually happening - especially since he contradicts pretty much every other statement, including his own, every time he speaks.

Will anyone have the strength and charisma to keep the reality show voters on side, while cutting back the twittering and making rational, presidential and effective decisions for the good of the country, or is it too far gone?

Professor Moriarty

20Cent wrote: »

"Warmest condolences" said like someone with no idea how to express empathy or speak english.

I think his staff are just happy that it wasn't 'Warmest congratulations'.

demfad

looksee wrote: »

Even if Trump were to go tomorrow, how long will it take the US to recover from the experience of having him in charge? He is creating a sense of insecurity and confusion that, along with the minute by minute reporting of such things as the hurricanes and now the Vagas shooting, is going to continue to create waves of upset so that society is likely to become even more disfunctional that it already is.

He has divided the country and proved what was already suspected, that there is a core of really dumb people who have no idea what the role of an effective president is. At this stage all of government seems to be conducted on twitter - and since the main man cannot string a coherent sentence together, how can anyone guess what is actually happening - especially since he contradicts pretty much every other statement, including his own, every time he speaks.

Will anyone have the strength and charisma to keep the reality show voters on side, while cutting back the twittering and making rational, presidential and effective decisions for the good of the country, or is it too far gone?

The US can't recover without great change. Trump is the symtom of the issue NOT the issue.

This author chronicles all the changes under Trump, week by week.
https://medium.com/@Amy_Siskind

It will only get worse:

The US capitalist 'producers' don't actually produce anything anymore. They are hollow brand companies like Trumps who outsource production. There was never going to be a big return to manufacturing in the US. To hide that lie Trump will double down and hold his base by creating more racism and division.

People were already disillusioned about politics: what will they be like after Trump?

That's before we go to the planetary disaster of global warming and his deletion of this from the US Govt and defunding research and pre-emtion.

Itssoeasy

The Donald is using his usual charm in Puerto Rico. He's said that the island has "thrown our budget out of whack" and ignored the mayor of San Juan after meeting when she said "it's not about politics"

It's like an evil twin of trigger from only fools and horses. Trigger was a warm hearted eijit while trump is a nasty narsisitic bully.

Itssoeasy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

"Warmest condolences" said like someone with no idea how to express empathy or speak english.

I think his staff are just happy that it wasn't 'Warmest congratulations'.

It's like getting a kick in the head or the balls whenever trump speaks. Both aren't nice but one is less nasty then the other but not by much.

Professor Moriarty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Donald is using his usual charm in Puerto Rico. He's said that the island has "thrown our budget out of whack" and ignored the mayor of San Juan after meeting when she said "it's not about politics"

It's like an evil twin of trigger from only fools and horses. Trigger was a warm hearted eijit while trump is a nasty narsisitic bully.

Very clever comparison! And very true.

looksee

'Only 16 people dead...not a real catastrophe like Katrina...you can be very proud, only 16 people, not hundreds and hundreds'...is there anything anyone can say - even his wife was looking doubtful about his ramblings.

Itssoeasy

looksee wrote: »

'Only 16 people dead...not a real catastrophe like Katrina...you can be very proud, only 16 people, not hundreds and hundreds'...is there anything anyone can say - even his wife was looking doubtful about his ramblings.

"real catastrophe" ? Was Hurricane Maria a TV hurricane ? 1 is too many regardless of what it is. And no there really isn't.

Kermit.de.frog

Videoed throwing paper towels to victims. What a jackass.

Manic Moran

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Videoed throwing paper towels to victims. What a jackass.

Utterly cringeworthy clip. I have no idea what genius decided that was going to be a good idea.

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

Utterly cringeworthy clip. I have no idea what genius decided that was going to be a good idea.

I'm pretty sure he had orange complexion, a shítty haircut and tiny hands...

Samaris

That was even worse than expected. The script lasted all of five minutes before he freestyled off into a ball of flames.

It's like he gets up on stage, mentally replaces any crowd present with the most adoring rally crowd he had during the campaign - and then lets rip. Nixon took a hammer to American norms every so often (mostly in terms of trying to protect himself, but also a few goes at the media), but Trump just rumbles through any norms that happen to be in the way with a tank. And it is dangerous.

Not to mention deeply insulting. He was watching Fox News (or a station that reported that hoax about the trucker's union) before he went. There was a rumour that started in the bowels of the internet (I think it was traced back to an anonymous youtube video) that took quotes from statement made by someone on the ground that included reference to "only 20% [of truck drivers] getting to work". It was phrased badly, and taken out of context it started off a wild story that the truck unions went on strike in PR after the hurricane. Listening to the rest of the statement (the next damn paragraph), it's made very clear that the drivers (or unions) are not at fault - the truck drivers simply could not get -to- work, some of them had their own houses destroyed and needed to look after family, the internal road network was badly damaged and there was little to no gas on the island.

Trump referred to the damn story at least three times (that the mayor couldn't get workers to help, another dig just before he left that specified the trucks, and then that "we need more local assistance" while he was there. And it was complete, malevolent, rubbish.

This is pig-ignorant stupidity, to encourage or spread rumours about people in a disaster-zone trying to get their lives back on track. But what can you expect, his clowns were fabricating stories about the mayor as well and he hasn't the sense to check if everything (anything) he sees on F&F is accurate.

ECO_Mental

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politics/trump-puerto-rico/index.html


Here is an article about his trip and sums up how crazy it was. If there was any further proof that he is certified Narcissistic Psychopath then it was this shambles:mad:



Five of the following are to be met to be determined to be cray cray

• A grandiose sense of self-importance Tick
• A preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love Tick
• A belief that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions Tick
• A need for excessive admiration Tick
• A sense of entitlement Tick
• Interpersonally exploitive behavior Tick
• A lack of empathy Tick
• Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her Tick
• A demonstration of arrogant and haughty behaviors or attitudes Tick

https://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/the-narcissistic-psychopath-are-narcissists-psychopaths/



Didn't think he would get all of them This fool has to be re-leaved of duty ASAP for medical reasons. I don't know how anybody can work for him, imagine standing next to him in PR yesterday and cheering this **** on saying how great he is Shameless stuff


Only for Las Vegas this shameless disgusting display in PR would be all over the news

Wanderer78

ECO_Mental wrote:

Here is an article about his trip and sums up how crazy it was. If there was any further proof that he is certified Narcissistic Psychopath then it was this shambles

I think I'm settling on narcissistic sociopath, not a whole lot of difference though

alchemist33

That performance is absolutely staggering. Even by his own standards, telling disaster victims they don't have it so bad and that everyone's saying what a good job he's doing is beyond parody - those are the exact same words a comedian would use if they were doing an impression of Trump. It's hard to imagine how the US went from Obama, who might have had his faults but was intelligent and statesmanlike, to the arrogance currently being displayed.

Wanderer78

alchemist33 wrote: »

That performance is absolutely staggering. Even by his own standards, telling disaster victims they don't have it so bad and that everyone's saying what a good job he's doing is beyond parody - those are the exact same words a comedian would use if they were doing an impression of Trump. It's hard to imagine how the US went from Obama, who might have had his faults but was intelligent and statesmanlike, to the arrogance currently being displayed.

its showing a very broken society unfortunately, this administration is potentially very dangerous for all

VinLieger

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I think I'm settling on narcissistic sociopath, not a whole lot of difference though

Im going with Grandiose Narcissist myself, I also still actually believe there's a good chance he has an advanced form a syphilis that is slowly eating his brain similar to what happened to Al Capone

Kermit.de.frog

TYT I know but we are that desperate for some sense of adequate discription of Trump at this stage!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2RfWtnF0-s

everlast75

Samaris wrote: »

But what can you expect, his clowns were fabricating stories about the mayor as well and he hasn't the sense to check if everything (anything) he sees on F&F is accurate.

Excellent post.

Just on that F&F and how much he watches it, I have no doubt considering the type of person he is, that the first time he is called bigly on some such rubbish, he will have no hesitation whatsoever in throwing them under the bus.

"you know, I watch Fox News, and I love Fox News, I watch it every day... but you know what? they got it wrong this time... and it is sad that they mislead me on this story.

I listen to them, I watch them, and they are much better than the other Fake News stations out there, but.. what can I say. They got it wrong"

There won't be one ounce of accountability on his part.

Tony EH

How can anyone keep supporting this clown? It must be embarrassing on a daily basis to be a Trump supporter.

I know a few Republican supporters in the US that are seriously thinking of switching the next time around, if a "decent" Republican candidate is not forthcoming.

VinLieger

Tony EH wrote: »

How can anyone keep supporting this clown? It must be embarrassing on a daily basis to be a Trump supporter.

I know a few Republican supporters in the US that are seriously thinking of switching the next time around, if a "decent" Republican candidate is not forthcoming.

Because they agree with him, when anyone says "he tells it like it is" they are basically saying yeah he says things I agree with. They don't notice his actions and how pathetic his overall behaviour is because they think he's speaking for them because they truly believe their voices are not being heard anymore.

That's obviously not the case at all, their voices are being heard its just they aren't the loudest anymore and in their minds that's not fair.

DickSwiveller

Tony EH wrote: »

How can anyone keep supporting this clown? It must be embarrassing on a daily basis to be a Trump supporter.

I know a few Republican supporters in the US that are seriously thinking of switching the next time around, if a "decent" Republican candidate is not forthcoming.

You, like many here, miss the point about Trump. It wasn't that people necessarily loved him - it's clear he has many character flaws; it was a combination of Trump facing the worst candidate in the history of presidential elections, and b) a big up yours to the metropolitan elite who have ignored ordinary Americans for decades. I'll give Trump one thing: He does wind up some of the most irritating people in the world aka. journalists, boards.ie posters, narcissistic celebrities, social media airheads, most of academia etc etc.

Surely that is worth something.

Tony EH

I am WELL aware of what got Trump into power.

But, that DOESN'T excuse ongoing support for this putrid fool.

And no, winding up people isn't worth anything, except to the simple minded.

DickSwiveller

Tony EH wrote: »

I am WELL aware of what got Trump into power.

But, that DOESN'T excuse ongoing support for this putrid fool.

And no, winding up people isn't worth anything, except to the simple minded.

It is very funny, though.