Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Samaris

Unfortunately, the ACA does need work. It was - if not gutted - severely weakened in getting it past the Republicans and it needs reforms. The basic idea is workable - it works in many other countries at least. There is an appetite to see it reformed and kept rather than thrown away or gradually whittled down until it collapses, which is Trump's aim. And then, annoyingly, he will say that it has to be gotten rid of because it is in a death spiral that he forced it into.

No regard to if people cannot get the medicine they need, or cannot have needed check-ups and continual care. Who cares if a few people die. Donnie's supporters want rid of the ACA so collateral damage is acceptable.

It is holding up surprisingly well to the brute force attacks on it so far. Much like American democratic norms. The system is battered but, so far, holding. But it's a race between whether the Trumpists get ejected or the norms (and ACA) collapse first.

Leroy42

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Trump is like a particularly nasty internet troll and he was elected by all the other trolls.
It is like every mean, nasty, vile, stupid comment on the internet has taken human form and worse is that people are cheering, clapping, whooping and hollering when he says grab 'em by the pussy, Mexicans are rapists, I could shoot someone and sh*t like that.
He is a human ********, but that is not the saddest part, the saddest part is that people in their millions are standing up, clapping and shouting "THIS is my guy! He stands for what I believe in! I want that to be the most powerful man on earth!"
Honestly, I am losing faith in humanity when a human ****** like this is admired by millions. It is my belief that you have to have some serious brain damage to see anything good about this guy.

edit: maybe it is just trolling on a global scale or maybe it says that a vast number of people are actually like that. Mean, vile, nasty and hateful. In that case I despair for humanity.

I'm afraid that I think it is the latter. People say "He tells it like it is" or such like. What they really mean is that he is saying what I think but society said I shouldn't say it.

The scary thing, that these people haven't even thought about, is that it is all fun and games when he is attacking others, like Mexicans, or HC, or Dems, but not so much fun when suddenly he starts to attack you, like the GOP are finding out.

And what happens when the NRA pee him off, or the NFL, or ICe Hockey, or Puerto Rico or whatever. Suddenly "they" are "you".

They got all high and mighty that HC called them deplorables, completely ignoring the fact they they were at rallies calling for Mexicans to be banned etc.

I can only cling to the hope that this is the last throws of a desperate part of the population who simply can't accept that things are changing. That the era of white, male, privilege is coming to an end. The last number of months is really testing that hope though

dr.fuzzenstein

I'm starting to believe it's the fact that people are tired of political correctness and all that sensitivity and environmental crap.
They just want to be meat-eating, whiskey-drinking, gun-toting, sexist, racist, homophobic, polluting, V8 driving pigs.
People whose knuckles are no doubt bleeding from being dragged along the ground, Al Bundys, dinosaurs and other assorted troglodytes.
It's a kick back against human rights advances, environmentalism, equal rights for all and anything that stands for, well, not the dark ages.

I make zero apologies for these and previous remarks, I will not back down from what I said no matter what. And that is still the polite version, believe it or not. When I call Trump a ....stain, it's not an insult, it is merely an accurate description of the man's character. He is a (brown thing) floating in a (porcelain receptible) and someone should pull the chain, because he's smelling up the place.
Humankind is like a toddler throwing a tantrum at the moment, it's ugly, it's vile, it makes me ashamed to be a part of it.

B0jangles

Did any of you hear about the attempting bombing of an American airport that occurred last week? I only heard about it today because the incident was only covered by local media - doesn't seem to have been any national coverage at all.

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2017/10/07/asheville-police-detain-man-sought-airport-explosive-incident/742795001/
https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2017/10/10/bomb-airport-ammonium-nitrate-fuel-oil-mix-suspect-make-first-appearance/749394001/
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/11/terrorist-donald-trump-airport-bomber-estes-asheville/

Apparently the bomber built his device at home and claimed he was preparing to "fight a war on U.S. soil,"

Weird how Trump is instantly tweeting about possible terrorist incidents anywhere in the world, as long as they can be linked to Islam, but has nothing whatsoever to say when it's a white american man.

Hande hoche!

http://uk.businessinsider.com/fbi-michael-estes-explosives-north-carolina-airport-2017-10?r=US&IR=T

https://apnews.com/98c8c6759127426f8abbc7e75a841053/FBI:-Man-left-explosive-jar-at-North-Carolina-airport

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-man-left-jar-filled-with-explosive-chemicals-nails-at-north-carolina-airport/

Seen it mentioned in a few places. Also conflicting information on whether he is white or Native America. Seems like a fairly poorly planned attempt.

B0jangles

Whether or not it was well-planned, it was an attempt by a terrorist to blow up an airport in America, which does not seem to have been reported anywhere outside local papers for at least 3 days. If you look, all your links are from reports from tuesday at the earliest and the incident happened on friday of last week. That's an astonishingly slow and weak media response given how on edge the U.S. is about terrorist activity at the moment.

If the attempted bomber had fitted the accepted profile of a terrorist, I think we can be in no doubt that Trump and the rest of the media would have been all over the story.

dr.fuzzenstein

And that there would be a big, shouty thread on AH about a certain group and religion.

Phonehead

It's just getting bizarre at this point, Trump refusing to sign-off on the Iran agreement. It's clear that his only policy is to undo everything Obama did.

What do other key players say?

Foreign leaders, including UK Prime Minister Theresa May and French President Emmanuel Macron, have urged Mr Trump to keep the deal.

"We also have to tell the Americans that their behaviour on the Iran issue will drive us Europeans into a common position with Russia and China against the USA," German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel warned in a newspaper interview.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that US withdrawal from the nuclear deal would "damage the atmosphere of predictability, security, stability and non-proliferation in the entire world".

Former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt said a US withdrawal from the deal would show it could not be relied upon and could have ramifications elsewhere, for example on efforts to resolve the North Korean nuclear issue.

The IAEA and Congress currently both agree Iran is complying with the terms of the nuclear agreement.

Billy86

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And that there would be a big, shouty thread on AH about a certain group and religion.

Not too different to that terror attack in Sweden, eh?

No not that one - this one - https://www.timesofisrael.com/swedish-neo-nazis-jailed-over-bomb-attacks-on-refugee-shelters/

July 7, 2017: STOCKHOLM, Sweden — A Swedish court on Friday sentenced three neo-Nazi activists for up to eight-and-a-half years in prison over bomb attacks against refugee shelters that left one person seriously injured.

“All three defendants have a common background in the Nordic Resistance Movement and have gotten to know each other through the movement’s activities,” said a district court in Sweden’s second largest city, Gothenburg.

The Nordic Resistance Movement, founded in 1997, is described as the most violent Nazi organization in Sweden by the Swedish anti-racism magazine Expo.

No no sorry, I meant this one - https://www.thelocal.se/20170614/man-with-alleged-nazi-links-admits-driving-his-car-into-refugee-demonstration-in-malmo-sweden

June 14, 2017: A 22-year-old man with suspected neo-Nazi links has confessed to driving his Volvo into an Iraqi demonstration outside the Migration Agency in Malmö. Police are investigating it as hate crime.

The man has admitted driving his car into a demonstration of around 20-30 Iraqi nationals protesting Sweden's new and stricter asylum rules outside the Migration Agency in Malmö on two occasions.

And let's be honest while we're at it, how much coverage did these two stories get in mainstream news here either?

Billy86

Phonehead wrote: »

It's just getting bizarre at this point, Trump refusing to sign-off on the Iran agreement. It's clear that his only policy is to undo everything Obama did.

Between this and actively trying to dismantle government, free speech, etc as well as causing as many divisions as he possibly can at each and every opportunity, it's almost as if he is doing the bidding of someone who absolutely hated Obama for hurting him and his' corrupt money........

Leroy42

The Iran situation is very odd. From the IAEA and Congress both saying the deal is, at the very least, buying US and the world time. Will Iran go back at some stage, IMO yes, but this deal seems to have at least parked that until (and this is based on nothing but my assumption) they get on their feet structure wise and then they will restart.

But Trump is facing a very possible show-down with NK. He also wants to cement US place as the No1 in the world. Why would he be going out of his way to create a possible second 'front', whilst at the same time creating tensions with his key allies?

It doesn't make sense. I get it that it appears that he just wants to burn anything Obama did, but surely they can all see that this is a crazy and totally unnecessary action by Trump, and thus the US?

What does he hope to gain by taking this action? When he pulled out of Paris he cited, erroneously, that the deal would cost the US billions. But he has given no indication of what tearing up this deal will give to the states. HE can argue that they will look for a better deal, but why would Iran agree to anything when the US shows themselves to be totally untrustworthy?

Phonehead

Billy86 wrote: »

Between this and actively trying to dismantle government, free speech, etc as well as causing as many divisions as he possibly can at each and every opportunity, it's almost as if he is doing the bidding of someone who absolutely hated Obama for hurting him and his' corrupt money........

Wait..... I think I know what you are getting at!!!!!!!!!!! BUT BUT BUT The E.M.A.I.L.S :P

Phonehead

I actually don't think Trump has any endgame in mind. He has no political ideals, he has no imagined perfect USA. He's just being a disruptive old man who despises everything that Obama did, I'd say Trump doesn't even no what this Iran involves, even at the basic idiots guide level. Obama signed it so it's a bad deal for 'Merica. The more this plays out the more likely we are of seeing something happen in the US internally, it's getting extremely clear that the country is getting more divided ideologically on top of economically.

For Forks Sake

If it's possible to facepalm oneself to death, it's going to be Trumps fault:

Trump: My presidency is 'substantially ahead of schedule'

These people are not human:

Tony Perkins, the evangelical president of the Family Research Council, introduced Trump at the summit and noted “we now have a president who reveres the Constitution and honors the laws of our land."

Perkins, in a statement, particularly hailed the Trump administration's move last week to roll back an Obama-era directive on birth control, allowing virtually any employer to claim a religious or moral objection to the Obamacare mandate to provide FDA-approved contraception at no cost. Perkins called the action a demonstration of Trump's commitment “to undoing the anti-faith policies of the previous administration and restoring true religious freedom."

Itssoeasy

For Forks Sake wrote: »

If it's possible to facepalm oneself to death, it's going to be Trumps fault:

Trump: My presidency is 'substantially ahead of schedule'

No. No it isn't Donald.

For Forks Sake

Itssoeasy wrote: »

No. No it isn't Donald.

I suppose you could caveat it by stating that no-one, himself included, has a damn clue what his schedule is.

Mr.Micro

Trump is trying it on with Iran, because he can't get the better of Kim. How much more damage can he do by the time he leaves office. I shudder to think.

aloyisious

It seems Don is using the treaty as a domestic bargaining chip to worry away at deals done by his predecessor and congress. It's a multinational international deal which he's certified at least once as OK since he took up office.

Re the ACA or Obama-care issue, Don used CNN news to say it was because of the Health Insurance Co's profiteering from the deal that he has cut off the Federal cash subsidy given to the Health Ins Co's, in order to get the Dem's into the W/H and hammer out a new deal on a replacement before his decision takes full effect on the people who can't afford cover without the federal subsidy. One way for him to get the Dem's to come aboard might be for him to use A.C.A whenever he mentions a new deal arrangement meeting with them. He as much as admitted that he has forgone going to the GOP for a new deal. So the Dem's should say [as a preamble] "yeah, we'll come aboard on any deal giving affordable cover if the greedy Health Ins Co's are forced to back off with their greed".

Don's opened the door on the Ins Co's charges blame angle, fleecing the taxpayer and it may be an angle he can pursue [if he wants] as being in the taxpayers interest. He got nothing to lose in such a stance, he doesn't walk from controversial stances.

everlast75

Is it safe to say objectively that even at this early stage, he is literally the worst president ever of the USA?

spacecoyote

Is it just to provoke war with someone? Everyone knows wars generally mean improved ratings & it would completely dwarf the whole Russia investigations etc...

So in a completely flawed messed up way, you could see the logic of picking a fight with a smaller nation that can't do any real direct damage to the US.

Obviously there would be massive consequences, but we've seen more than enough evidence that trump doesn't give a toss about consequences, its all about the current problem he sees for himself

Billy86

Phonehead wrote: »

Wait..... I think I know what you are getting at!!!!!!!!!!! BUT BUT BUT The E.M.A.I.L.S :P

YOU LEAVE BUSH AND KUSH OUT OF THIS!! :mad:

For Forks Sake wrote: »

If it's possible to facepalm oneself to death, it's going to be Trumps fault:

You might want to dial 9-9, and keep your finger close to 9 again then...

Trump today: "And I went to Puerto Rico, and I met with the President of the Virgin Islands..."

Trivia question, who is the President of the Virgin Islands? Well given it's part of the United States, it's Preisdent is Donald Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Virgin_Islands

Phonehead

spacecoyote wrote: »

Is it just to provoke war with someone? Everyone knows wars generally mean improved ratings & it would completely dwarf the whole Russia investigations etc...

But the problem here is that even a war won't get his approval up over 40% in fact a war could further along resistance from the Blue States in the US. The harsh reality is that the red states need the blue states to survive, just look at the household income, life expectancy and education stats in the below article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/opinion/campaign-stops/the-path-to-prosperity-is-blue.html

Arytonblue

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Trump is trying it on with Iran, because he can't get the better of Kim. How much more damage can he do by the time he leaves office. I shudder to think.

It's honestly starting to resemble a playground bully whose usual victims have told him to piss off and is now desperately looking to pick a fight with anyone that fits the bill for them to channel their insecurities into acting all tough and imposing, except this scenario is far more pathetic to look at and has far more dangerous ramifications.

ancapailldorcha

Nonsense deleted. Constructive posts only please.

BuilderPlumber

everlast75 wrote: »

Is it safe to say objectively that even at this early stage, he is literally the worst president ever of the USA?

And DELIBERATELY so. He is clearly an agent of someone else designed to make America and/or Republican Party look as bad as possible. This is what we know. But who is 00Trump working for?

Manic Moran

They just want to be meat-eating, whiskey-drinking, gun-toting, sexist, racist, homophobic, polluting, V8 driving pigs.

Hang on a second. I meet four of those eight criteria, I like to think I'm a fairly reasonable chap. Hyperbole much?

blackpearl

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is clear Donald Trump is a plant, an agent of someone placed to create havoc in America and to destroy either it or the Republican party on behalf of someone. Everything he has done is firstly as negative as possible and secondly is delegated to someone else as if to say go along with it if you are mad or evil enough. Trump wants to set up others and get them to implement evil and if they fall for it, he has either America or the Republican party where he and his employers want them. This Trump thing is deep.

I think the scrapping of the iran nucklear deal will be the bas---ds downfall.

demfad

spacecoyote wrote: »

Is it just to provoke war with someone? Everyone knows wars generally mean improved ratings & it would completely dwarf the whole Russia investigations etc...

So in a completely flawed messed up way, you could see the logic of picking a fight with a smaller nation that can't do any real direct damage to the US.

Obviously there would be massive consequences, but we've seen more than enough evidence that trump doesn't give a toss about consequences, its all about the current problem he sees for himself

Wars bring up the price of oil. This administration was a coup by corporations (with some help) who want to hold on to fossil fuels, maximum consumption and the other stuff that keeps them rich but hurts the planet.
That's why denying climate change is so big in this admin.
Fracking, extracting oil from tar sands is too expensive now. War will sort that (and distract from Russia).
Russia wants oil prices to rise also. Russian interests coincide with thsi RW capitalists. This the collaboration.
Trump is the show monkey.

A Little Pony

everlast75 wrote: »

Is it safe to say objectively that even at this early stage, he is literally the worst president ever of the USA?

Not even close. Multiple Presidents in history who are way worse than Trump who started wars, illegal wars, murdered hundreds of thousands of people. Certainly worse than someone who is just winging it as he goes along hoping to annoy his enemies.

A Little Pony

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not even close. Multiple Presidents in history who are way worse than Trump who started wars, illegal wars, murdered hundreds of thousands of people. Certainly worse than someone who is just winging it as he goes along hoping to annoy his enemies.

Well he's got another three years. Plenty of time to get around to all that yet unfortunately.

Hande hoche!

Deleted User wrote: »

Well he's got another three years. Plenty of time to get around to all that yet unfortunately.

Wouldn't even regard him as the worst president of the 21st century. That being said, as you say, three years is a long time.

dudara

everlast75 wrote: »

Is it safe to say objectively that even at this early stage, he is literally the worst president ever of the USA?

For certain the least qualified, least suited and least able.

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

Well he's got another three years. Plenty of time to get around to all that yet unfortunately.

And if his fans want to use that criteria, he's already racking up the death toll at an 'impressive' clip since ramping up drones strikes etc before we even get into any nuclear war talk (or the tens of thousands that destroying health care would kill).

MadYaker

He hasn't done as much damage yet as GWB did. But like people said it's early days. I think comparing him to any other president at a similar stage in their presidency I think he is definitely the least effective and probably the worst too. He's done f*ck all so farm in terms of actually passing legislation.

Billy86

He easily has to be the worst at this stage, by October 2001 Bush was particularly noteworthy for what he had or had not done (and ironically had possibly the highest approval ratings of any president ever at around 90%, though that was really down to 9/11).

dudara

Larry Flynn (of Hustler fame) offers $10 million for information to impeach Trump. What I find interesting is why such information hasn't already been used. Trump has been a grifter and an amoral bastard his whole life. He's no stranger to courts - accused of refusing black tenants, raping his wife, Trump University pyramid scheme etc. Why hasn't anything sunk him yet?

http://twitter.com/thehill/status/919221063443189761

Billy86

Because investigations like this are extremely careful and slow moving as a result, wasn't it over two years after the smoking gun that was Watergate that it took to get rid of Nixon?

PopePalpatine

dudara wrote: »

Larry Flynn (of Hustler fame) offers $10 million for information to impeach Trump.

I can't wait for the alt-right screeching about "leftist degeneracy"...yet at the same time thinking rape is "alpha male" behaviour.

BuilderPlumber

blackpearl wrote: »

I think the scrapping of the iran nucklear deal will be the bas---ds downfall.

Yes and let's hope the downfall of whatever lowlife Trump is a slave of as well. There is something rotten to the core here and Mr Big is not revealing his or her face and is a threat to peace. Trump is a businessman and will borrow from anyone and will deal with anyone and that's the problem. Dangerous times.

Brian?

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hang on a second. I meet four of those eight criteria, I like to think I'm a fairly reasonable chap. Hyperbole much?

You drive a V8?

Manic Moran

Brian? wrote: »

You drive a V8?

Not my daily driver (That's a VW diesel four-banger), but I've a V8 in the garage for weekends and winter trips (It's a quattro), and the wife has a V8 as well.

Nody

Remember that executive order Trump almost forgot to sign this week? Well it should turn into a real fun party for some people as 70% of the people who're impacted live in the Pro Trump states that are now going to see that funding cut to zero. That means all those people are highly likely to lose their health insurance in full impacting an estimated 4 million people in 30 pro trump states total. Now a lot of Trump voters I've seen talking have praised the healthcare act and expected Trump to act on other things and if anything make it cheaper; now that those 4 million people will suddenly lose all healthcare it will be interesting to see how those core voters will react (I got a feeling they are not going to be to happy). Could this be the final thrashing of Trump's popularity required for the Republicans to oust him as this will be core voters who're losing their healthcare which will hit home hard.

Leroy42

Nody wrote: »

Remember that executive order Trump almost forgot to sign this week? Well it should turn into a real fun party for some people as 70% of the people who're impacted live in the Pro Trump states that are now going to see that funding cut to zero. That means all those people are highly likely to lose their health insurance in full impacting an estimated 4 million people in 30 pro trump states total. Now a lot of Trump voters I've seen talking have praised the healthcare act and expected Trump to act on other things and if anything make it cheaper; now that those 4 million people will suddenly lose all healthcare it will be interesting to see how those core voters will react (I got a feeling they are not going to be to happy). Could this be the final thrashing of Trump's popularity required for the Republicans to oust him as this will be core voters who're losing their healthcare which will hit home hard.

You would like to think so but my bet is that those people that voted for Trump in those states will believe the story that this is necessary in order to kill off Obamacare and finally get the Dems to the table.

They have, so far at least, accepted when other things don't work out. For example his tax plan is clearly going to benefit the better off, at least in the short term (trickle down etc) and that seems to be fine. At a recent rally for truckers he had the crowd cheering about the plan getting rid of estate tax when a review shows only a very marginal amount of truckers would be anywhere near the limits to have been affected.

Nody

Leroy42 wrote: »

You would like to think so but my bet is that those people that voted for Trump in those states will believe the story that this is necessary in order to kill off Obamacare and finally get the Dems to the table.

They have, so far at least, accepted when other things don't work out. For example his tax plan is clearly going to benefit the better off, at least in the short term (trickle down etc) and that seems to be fine. At a recent rally for truckers he had the crowd cheering about the plan getting rid of estate tax when a review shows only a very marginal amount of truckers would be anywhere near the limits to have been affected.

But none of that really hit them directly (it will obviously hit them indirectly over time) but when you suddenly can't buy the medication or go to your doctor because your insurance is cancelled that's a whole lot more personal that some tax discounts for other people; esp. as in the coal district it's literally speaking a life or death question for miners due to the coal they breathed in. I'm talking like this guy (first time he ever voted!):

Or a guy like this who voted Republican for 35 years and was a Tea party supporter:

These are the guys who're directly impacted this and voted Trump and these are the voters I think will simply refuse Trump a second round by refusing to vote and if even 2 million voters refuse to vote because of the election it will significantly hit the Republican party.

Professor Moriarty

dudara wrote: »

Larry Flynn (of Hustler fame) offers $10 million for information to impeach Trump. What I find interesting is why such information hasn't already been used. Trump has been a grifter and an amoral bastard his whole life. He's no stranger to courts - accused of refusing black tenants, raping his wife, Trump University pyramid scheme etc. Why hasn't anything sunk him yet?

http://twitter.com/thehill/status/919221063443189761

Loads of people on this thread have a chance of winning the 10 million. I've already sent a few of my posts to Larry.

Billy86

Leroy42 wrote: »

You would like to think so but my bet is that those people that voted for Trump in those states will believe the story that this is necessary in order to kill off Obamacare and finally get the Dems to the table.

That's why I've no sympathy for them dying, they voted for it and they want it. Not that I'm celebrating it but... what else can you do? They're willing to die for their "this'll show those liberals!!" cause so, well, all we can really do is let them.

This is one of the things Trump -and- the Republicans ran on. They voted for their own deaths... welcome to democracy I guess?

recedite

You're not going to win the 10 million by regurgitating the usual CTs and fake news.
Even Putin failed to win it when he sent in everything he had on The Donald.

Billy86

recedite wrote: »

You're not going to win the 10 million by regurgitating the usual CTs and fake news.
Even Putin failed to win it when he sent in everything he had on The Donald.

What we know, they'll already know. That's the problem for Trump, it's almost all true - and where there's any lingering doubt he's got the family members to help prove it.

https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/884789418455953413?lang=en

mcmoustache

recedite wrote: »

You're not going to win the 10 million by regurgitating the usual CTs and fake news.
Even Putin failed to win it when he sent in everything he had on The Donald.

Do you know what fake news is?

Or are you just using the term to describe news that you don't like?

aloyisious

I'm left wondering, with the mention of Opioid addiction being a major issue in some of the larger Pro-Trump voting states, how the cancellation of the funding will affect his popularity? By coincidence, this HBO Docu-film ran last night on a Sky channel, https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjMsLiE0fTWAhWBXBoKHcKLCUsQtwIINTAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcO1JpHEOcSI&usg=AOvVaw0QzlqfIqktWPecW_26xhYz

OK, the film I watched last night ain't on the link but the link shows how average US families suffer from slppage into addiction and death. With the ending of funding, families are going to be hit