Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Billy86

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Eh, obviously he hinted at tapes so Comey would have to tell the truth during his testimony. How was he caught out exactly?

Yeah because we know Comey is a renowned habitual liar whereas Trump is aaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll about the truth. Try something different.

Hank Scorpio

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah because we know Comey is a renowned habitual liar whereas Trump is aaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll about the truth. Try something different.

Trump lies, I don't think Comey is squeaky clean. One can believe both.

Leroy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah because we know Comey is a renowned habitual liar whereas Trump is aaaaaalllllllllllllllllllllllll about the truth. Try something different.

Trump lies, I don't think Comey is squeaky clean. One can believe both.

Well one can believe Trump if one disregards all the previous evidence.

One can disbelieve Comey because being skepical is always good.

But one cant really, honestly, choose both

Hank Scorpio

Off topic but, is there anyone in Washington not under investigation?

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/878613695315812353

Water John

In the real world, let Trump, Ryan and McConnell tell 3 year old Ethan that, he is not eligible for health insurance.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/this-little-boys-hospital-bill-has-gone-viral-online-and-shone-a-spotlight-on-us-healthcare-795001.html

Oafley Jones

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well one can believe Trump if one disregards all the previous evidence.

One can disbelieve Comey because being skepical is always good.

But one cant really, honestly, choose both

To be fair to Trump, there was a day in March that he didn't come out with some piece of BS. A compete list of Trumps lies....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html?_r=0

I've no idea why people bother engaging with people that aren't capable of seeing reality.

InTheTrees

Water John wrote: »

In the real world, let Trump, Ryan and McConnell tell 3 year old Ethan that, he is not eligible for health insurance.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/this-little-boys-hospital-bill-has-gone-viral-online-and-shone-a-spotlight-on-us-healthcare-795001.html

Trump, Ryan and McConnell know full well people will die from their "reforms" and they really honestly do not care.
The tax cut for the 1% is more important.

eagle eye

I don't normally post here but just gotta say that I think the American media and the European media have set themselves back a long way in my opinion with their treatment of Trump and their attempts to convince the public of how bad he is.

This quest to have him investigated over any little thing they can come up with has shown just how ugly and hungry for power they have become.

What makes it worse is that if they actually succeeded we'd then have Mike Pence as President which would be a really bad thing imo.

Captain Obvious

Ipse dixit wrote: »

Of course it is but the media don't want to pick up on the 'interference' form both sides. US intelligence are losing their minds over the Russians and Iran but it's making them look like complete hypocrites. You have people on here actually supporting this hypocrital stance the US takes on interference in elections and other countries sovereignty.

It's embarrassing reading Irish people cheerleading this witchhunt. The lack of balance is incredible.

What's embarrassing is the mental gymnastics and deflection tactics that Trump fanatics engage in to ignore criticism of their "God Emperor". Even if you dismiss the whole idea of Russian interference, the man is a proven liar and a complete incompetent and his policies are reverting the US back decades in all areas. He is a danger to humanity in his current position. How anyone can defend him or want him in that office is truly baffling.

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Eh, obviously he hinted at tapes so Comey would have to tell the truth during his testimony. How was he caught out exactly?

So trying to influence a witness before they gave testimony. Harmless really. :rolleyes:

Water John wrote: »

In the real world, let Trump, Ryan and McConnell tell 3 year old Ethan that, he is not eligible for health insurance.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/this-little-boys-hospital-bill-has-gone-viral-online-and-shone-a-spotlight-on-us-healthcare-795001.html

If anyone thinks this kind of story would bother a republican politician they haven't being paying attention. They don't care about the little people.

Water John

When they go home to their town hall meetings. They find the little people let them know. As people realise what the cheap GOP slogan 'repeal Obamacare', really means.

The reality is, a lot of States, incl ones governed by republicans, expanded Medicaid, under Obamacare.

Igotadose

In other Trump news, no Iftar dinner. Didn't know that the tradition started with Jefferson, went on for awhile then revived under Clinton:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/eid-al-fitr-donald-trump-white-house-stops-tradition-muslim-american-ramadan-fast-religious-freedom-a7806836.html

Just in case there were any doubts about Trump's demonization of Muslims. As he's admitted he'll lie about pretty much anything, the truth's in the behaviors, and he must hate Muslims to be this petty.

Water John

It isn't that Trump hates Muslims. It's just he is playing to his base.

All the GOP must take ownership of the Health Bill. And keep reminding them, ad nauseam.

PropJoe10

InTheTrees wrote: »

Trump, Ryan and McConnell know full well people will die from their "reforms" and they really honestly do not care.
The tax cut for the 1% is more important.

It's a poor time in American history, for sure. Pulling health insurance away from people that really need it is pretty much the lowest of the low. You might not agree with everything that Bernie Sanders says, but at least he genuinely cares about people.

Call me Al

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't normally post here but just gotta say that I think the American media and the European media have set themselves back a long way in my opinion with their treatment of Trump and their attempts to convince the public of how bad he is.

This quest to have him investigated over any little thing they can come up with has shown just how ugly and hungry for power they have become.

What makes it worse is that if they actually succeeded we'd then have Mike Pence as President which would be a really bad thing imo.

What do you think he personally is being investigated for? Do you really think it's "any little thing"?
Do you think the idea that his campaign colluded with Russian interests has not had implications for America? Is it a far fetched idea that there has been collusion and should be investigated?

I think we in Europe should be very wary of Russia's long-term plans wrt Europe and the EU. They attempted to influence the French election. They do not have our best interests at heart.

BabyCheeses

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't normally post here but just gotta say that I think the American media and the European media have set themselves back a long way in my opinion with their treatment of Trump and their attempts to convince the public of how bad he is.

This quest to have him investigated over any little thing they can come up with has shown just how ugly and hungry for power they have become.

What makes it worse is that if they actually succeeded we'd then have Mike Pence as President which would be a really bad thing imo.

Oh this again, Trump doesn't need the media, he has twitter remember? I can just listen to the man himself and his followers to come to my own conclusion.

It's always the same point repeated over and over. Where's the proofs? What makes it so unbelievable that people could not like Trump?

aloyisious

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Oh this again, Trump doesn't need the media, he has twitter remember? I can just listen to the man himself and his followers to come to my own conclusion.

It's always the same point repeated over and over. Where's the proofs? What makes it so unbelievable that people could not like Trump?

The reality is that those who choose to read what Don says in his tweets are doing the same as people who choose to read newspapers, they come to conclusions based on what others write. The unfunny thing is that Don is doing the same himself, reacting to media reports via twitter. If he wasn't, then his tweets would be weird, based on his own musings about nothing.

A Little Pony

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't normally post here but just gotta say that I think the American media and the European media have set themselves back a long way in my opinion with their treatment of Trump and their attempts to convince the public of how bad he is.

This quest to have him investigated over any little thing they can come up with has shown just how ugly and hungry for power they have become.

What makes it worse is that if they actually succeeded we'd then have Mike Pence as President which would be a really bad thing imo.

It wouldn't matter to some of the media establishment as they just don't like Republicans/Conservatives. They want it one way and the uprising of the  fly over states is what won it for him.

Leroy42

But pretty much everything reported by the media since Trump became POTUS as been shown to be materially true.

Flynn lying to VP, Sessions lying under oath, Trump trying to interfere with FBI investigations, Kushner secret back channel communications with Russia, Russian interference with election.

So why this opinion that its a media led campaign? Whether parts of the media like him or not does not take away from the reality

Water John

(The dispute is also being fanned by rightwing billionaires investing millions of dollars in attempting to push the Republican party further in their direction. This weekend the energy tycoons Charles and David Koch held a three-day retreat at a luxury resort in the Rocky Mountains, with hundreds of wealthy donors pledging $100,000 each to an ultraconservative campaign fighting fund.

One of the topics under discussion at the Koch retreat was how to ensure that Republicans in Congress move in a more radical anti-government direction over healthcare.

A spokesman for the Koch network, James Davis, told Associated Press the brothers intended to invest up to $400m in swaying the 2018 midterm elections, and would continue to push for changes to the healthcare legislation.)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/25/trump-heart-republicans-senate-healthcare-bill-medicaid

The immorality of this, is obscene. A few wealthy people, advocating the total neglect of the less fortunate.

A Little Pony

Leroy42 wrote: »

But pretty much everything reported by the media since Trump became POTUS as been shown to be materially true.

Flynn lying to VP, Sessions lying under oath, Trump trying to interfere with FBI investigations, Kushner secret back channel communications with Russia, Russian interference with election.

So why this opinion that its a media led campaign?  Whether parts of the media like him or not does not take away from the reality

Of which none has been proven to be true under a court of law. This Russian nonsense is going nowhere and I think most people know it too.

Billy86

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of which none has been proven to be true under a court of law.

So for a start, Sessions did not admit to meeting with Russia despite saying at first that he didn't have them?

Water John

Flynn will be seeing the inside of a court alright. He probably will also see out between prison bars.

But even there he'll have better health care than the poor.

PopePalpatine

A Little Pony wrote: »

This Russian nonsense is going nowhere and I think most people know it too.

Did you miss Trump lashing out at Obama for "allowing" the Russian hacks to happen?

Water John

Don't think Trump understands the legal consequences of what he writes on twitter. It is evidence of his beliefs and mindset.

Hank Scorpio

This is interesting. It comes on the back of CNN having to retract and apologize on a story about Trump aide Scaramucci being linked to a Russian fund.

http://thehill.com/media/339293-cnn-retracts-story-linking-trump-ally-scaramucci-to-russian-fund

https://twitter.com/passantino/status/879048446287552512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Fbig-journalism%2F2017%2F06%2F25%2Fcnn-imposes-strict-new-rules-on-russia-coverage-following-retraction%2F

aloyisious

If I'm understanding the situation in Congress correctly, the version of the Trump health-care bill being debated by the GOP members in the Senate is different-to and less harmful in the immediacy to the insured public than the version being debated by the GOP members in the House. There seem's to be more mindfulness in the Senate of the consequences for people who are likely to be affected by allowing health insurance Co's lessen their guarantees as well as that caused by cutting Medicare to the same people. It'd be nice to think they were more interested in the health of the public rather than that of the healthcare business. EDIT.. either way, I wouldn't approve of it if it's basis of support by Don and his Admin is because the original healthcare bill is Obama's bill.

Looking at news [Fox] on the row between the Saudi-allied camp and Qatar, it seems the US is a hostage to fortune in the Saudi-made spat, with US military forward-bases there essential to the Isis fight, and Turkey saying it does NOT approve of the withdrawal of foreign troops from Qatar..... Hopefully Rex Tillerson can persuade the Ibn-Saud family to relax its demands to Qatar, incl those on the Al-Jazeera news agency,

Water John

The Saudis were only emboldened following their very successfull visit from, you know who. That's gratitude. Being fawning to people, comes back to bite you in the ass.

Nody

aloyisious wrote: »

If I'm understanding the situation in Congress correctly, the version of the Trump health-care bill being debated by the GOP members in the Senate is different-to and less harmful in the immediacy to the insured public than the version being debated by the GOP members in the House. There seem's to be more mindfulness in the Senate of the consequences for people who are likely to be affected by allowing health insurance Co's lessen their guarantees as well as that caused by cutting Medicare to the same people. It'd be nice to think they were more interested in the health of the public rather than that of the healthcare business. EDIT.. either way, I wouldn't approve of it if it's basis of support by Don and his Admin is because the original healthcare bill is Obama's bill.

Except there are at least 5 hold outs who think it's to generous and to similar to Obama Care who've stated they will vote against it; expect to see special carving outs to get it through and more pork to the beast.

JRant

Water John wrote: »

The Saudis were only emboldened following their very successfull visit from, you know who. That's gratitude. Being fawning to people, comes back to bite you in the ass.

The Saudis have been manoeuvring on this for a while. The king only recently changed his succession plan making his son next in line. This chap is very much a hard liner and has replaced a more "moderate" (well for a Saudi) member of the family.

It would seem that they used Trumps visit as a launch pad to go after Qatar rather than anything said by Trump. Trump will need to bring this situation off the boil as quickly as possible. unfortunately he hasn't got a handle on this yet and probably won't either, such is his incompetence.

Zubeneschamali

Water John wrote: »

Flynn will be seeing the inside of a court alright. He probably will also see out between prison bars.

No, Flynn is caught red-handed, so he will make a deal and turn over his co-conspirators.

JRant

aloyisious wrote: »

If I'm understanding the situation in Congress correctly, the version of the Trump health-care bill being debated by the GOP members in the Senate is different-to and less harmful in the immediacy to the insured public than the version being debated by the GOP members in the House. There seem's to be more mindfulness in the Senate of the consequences for people who are likely to be affected by allowing health insurance Co's lessen their guarantees as well as that caused by cutting Medicare to the same people. It'd be nice to think they were more interested in the health of the public rather than that of the healthcare business. EDIT.. either way, I wouldn't approve of it if it's basis of support by Don and his Admin is because the original healthcare bill is Obama's bill.

Looking at news [Fox] on the row between the Saudi-allied camp and Qatar, it seems the US is a hostage to fortune in the Saudi-made spat, with US military forward-bases there essential to the Isis fight, and Turkey saying it does NOT approve of the withdrawal of foreign troops from Qatar..... Hopefully Rex Tillerson can persuade the Ibn-Saud family to relax its demands to Qatar, incl those on the Al-Jazeera news agency,

Obama Care has 2 major flaws IMO. It didn't decrease premiums and in some areas led to a large hike in price while at the same time penalising people for not having a plan. I've heard that large numbers of people are just paying the fines rather than signing up for plans as they are so expensive now.

It also failed to guarantee the exchanges that Obama was heralding when it first came about. So basically Obama Care forced people to sign up and then they went to the insurance companies to get them to guarantee the exchanges and were promptly told to sod off.

With that said this new bill does nothing really to improve on the existing one.

Water John

Flynn, would want some good info, to cut a deal. If you hear it, you know there is a lot more to come.

donaghs

Igotadose wrote: »

In other Trump news, no Iftar dinner. Didn't know that the tradition started with Jefferson, went on for awhile then revived under Clinton:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/eid-al-fitr-donald-trump-white-house-stops-tradition-muslim-american-ramadan-fast-religious-freedom-a7806836.html

Just in case there were any doubts about Trump's demonization of Muslims. As he's admitted he'll lie about pretty much anything, the truth's in the behaviors, and he must hate Muslims to be this petty.

I'm no fan of Trump, but there's a bit of truth stretching in the Trump-bashing surrounding this story. e.g. "...a Muslim tradition held at the White House for more than two centuries".

As far as I understand the history, this tradition was started by Hilary Clinton in 1996, while her husband was President. And was continued by
Bush Jr and Obama.
It was "inspired" by a meeting of Thomas Jefferson with a Tunisian diplomat in 1805. A dinner meeting was arranged, and the time of the dinner was "diplomatically" pushed back to facilitate the Muslim guest during Ramadan. That's it.

If you read the history of the time, relations were not great between the US and the Muslim Barbary States. In 1786 when the US asked the Barbary states ambassador why they were attacking US shipping, they were told they were considered infidels, so they were entitled to attack them.
I suspect the 1805 dinner conversation would have been along the lines of "would mind not attack American shipping, and enslaving our crews? We are no longer prepared to pay massive protection money, and our growing navy will continue the blockade until you agree to desist".

Nonetheless, ending this "tradition", just like if he ended the bowl of shamrock thing, can only send a negative signal.

aloyisious

Nody wrote: »

Except there are at least 5 holdouts who think it's to generous and to similar to Obama Care who've stated they will vote against it; expect to see special carving outs to get it through and more pork to the beast.

The holdout is one thing to be thankful for. Hopefully the hold-outs fail to see the obvious and push their resistance beyond the point of no return. I understand the GOP are afraid that if the bill is not passed by the senate by 4th july break, the support for it will wane and the Dems will win by default of the failure. In a way the holdouts are employing a filibuster-like weapon the GOP thought they had found a way around, lol.

I agree with the O/P on the way the insurance industry damaged the Obama act. Profits and shareholders before customers.

Billy86

aloyisious wrote: »

The holdout is one thing to be thankful for. Hopefully the hold-outs push their resistance beyond the point of no return. I understand the GOP are afraid that if the bill is not passed by the senate by 4th july break, the support for it will wane and the Dems will win by default of the failure.

Which is why they will push through something, anything, to say they got it over the line. If it wouldn't upset their paymasters so much, they would pass the Swedish system at this point just to say they got it passed. Or eradicate all forms of health care full stop, just to say they got it passed.

And the millions of Americans that treat the letter (R) as the icon of a fundamentalist religious cult would cheer either with equal vigor and support. Because what they do doesn't matter to those people, just that the letter (R) is beside their name.

wes

donaghs wrote: »

Nonetheless, ending this "tradition", just like if he ended the bowl of shamrock thing, can only send a negative signal.

Trump also skipped the white house seder.

aloyisious

Billy86 wrote: »

Which is why they will push through something, anything, to say they got it over the line. If it wouldn't upset their paymasters so much, they would pass the Swedish system at this point just to say they got it passed. Or eradicate all forms of health care full stop, just to say they got it passed.

And the millions of Americans that treat the letter (R) as the icon of a fundamentalist religious cult would cheer either with equal vigor and support. Because what they do doesn't matter to those people, just that the letter (R) is beside their name.

It'd be kind'a ironical in a way, Don having to sign a swamp-deal into law, though he'd call it anything rather than admit that is what it is. Though he's signed 28 bills into law so far, It'll probably be the one he'll like to be linked to, even though it's another repeal and replacement bill, which will do more to create medical casualties than cure them.

aloyisious

wes wrote: »

Trump also skipped the white house seder.

Doesn't he know that's what having a V/P is for, deputizing to attend things he doesn't want to do?

Igotadose

aloyisious wrote: »

The holdout is one thing to be thankful for. Hopefully the hold-outs fail to see the obvious and push their resistance beyond the point of no return. I understand the GOP are afraid that if the bill is not passed by the senate by 4th july break, the support for it will wane and the Dems will win by default of the failure. In a way the holdouts are employing a filibuster-like weapon the GOP thought they had found a way around, lol.

I agree with the O/P on the way the insurance industry damaged the Obama act. Profits and shareholders before customers.

IMO they'll come around. Means too much to their advertising machine for the next round of campaigns. There'll be backroom deals to bring them along.

US really needs insurance-company-free health care. The insurers add nothing and make it insanely complicated. Having moved from US health care to Ireland health care, there's no contest which one is better for the average consumer - Ireland. US health care is run pretty much maliciously as far as I can tell.

But, this is the Trump thread, not a US Healthcare thread. I saw an article today on the UK Independent and pointed to a really good site that tracks each week of Trump's presidency, called the Weekly Limit, run by a journalist and ex-HRC campaigner. She summarizes what went on that week, with links to describe the details, in the context of watching out for the shift to authoritarianism inherent in all of Trump's actions. https://medium.com/@Amy_Siskind/week-31-experts-in-authoritarianism-advise-to-keep-a-list-of-things-subtly-changing-around-you-so-dd293e0dd49b

Igotadose

A Little Pony wrote: »

Of which none has been proven to be true under a court of law. This Russian nonsense is going nowhere and I think most people know it too.

I'd wait for the trial before making claims about courts of law. No trial - no evidence- no proof. Trials take time to get to.

As for most people, well, here's some poll results for you: "Following Comey’s blockbuster appearance before Congress, an Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll shows 68 percent of Americans are at least moderately concerned about the possibility that Trump or his campaign associates had inappropriate ties to Russia. Almost half of Americans say they’re very concerned. Only 3 in 10 say they’re not that concerned."

https://apnews.com/20a964f63cc84a01b84ed2fe6fd5cee8

Leroy42

The questions, finally, are starting into why Trump has done nothing in terms of response against Russia.

From Tweeter, it seems Trump is trying to divert attention to Obama on this issue. Whilst he may be right, it serves to highlight that Russia did play an active role in trying to infiltrate the democratic process and second that Trump has failed to do anything since his election.

This will only serve to highlight his own lack of any actions and the questions will continue.

It seems very odd that as POTUS he would have access to these reports showing Russia attempted inference and yet he has done nothing at all about it

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

The questions, finally, are starting into why Trump has done nothing in terms of response against Russia.

From Tweeter, it seems Trump is trying to divert attention to Obama on this issue. Whilst he may be right, it serves to highlight that Russia did play an active role in trying to infiltrate the democratic process and second that Trump has failed to do anything since his election.

This will only serve to highlight his own lack of any actions and the questions will continue.

It seems very odd that as POTUS he would have access to these reports showing Russia attempted inference and yet he has done nothing at all about it

And indeed attempted to roll them back. I also remember cries of Russian interference being far to premature. Now suddenly it has changed to they did not do enough once they had enough info (but had not completed the investigation). Short memories and that.

Mr.Micro

Igotadose wrote: »

I'd wait for the trial before making claims about courts of law. No trial - no evidence- no proof. Trials take time to get to.

As for most people, well, here's some poll results for you: "Following Comey’s blockbuster appearance before Congress, an Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll shows 68 percent of Americans are at least moderately concerned about the possibility that Trump or his campaign associates had inappropriate ties to Russia. Almost half of Americans say they’re very concerned. Only 3 in 10 say they’re not that concerned."

https://apnews.com/20a964f63cc84a01b84ed2fe6fd5cee8

The irony of the whole thing is the US interferes in countless nations, both politically and militarily and has done in the past. So for the Russians to be doing the same to the US is just delicious irony, and upsets 7/10 people. Don is not one of those.

Itssoeasy

The SCOTUS have ruled that some parts of trumps travel ban can be allowed. That's dissapointing.

A Little Pony

Great news. Trump will be happy.

Billy86

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The SCOTUS have ruled that some parts of trumps travel ban can be allowed. That's dissapointing.

Major, major win for ISIS and co there.

Itssoeasy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Great news. Trump will be happy.

What's great about it ?

Manic Moran

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The SCOTUS have ruled that some parts of trumps travel ban can be allowed. That's dissapointing.

Sortof. They've not really ruled on the merits of the ban, that is scheduled for later in the year. They've more left parts of it in place as the 'least damaging' outcome until they can make such a ruling. I'll try to track down the judgement in total.

Leroy42

The ruling appears to limit the enforcement of the ban to those with no previous ties to the US (work, family, education etc). So very limited. In practical terms not a significant win.

Also, the ban was always designed to give the US breathing space to come up with a comprehensive plan to tighten immigration so the actual usefulness of the ban itself is very much open to question after 5 months delay.

Its a very useful victory for Trump, as he can use it to show that he was right all along. Expect KellyAnn, Spicer etc to be on the MSN telling everyone how much safer US is now that Trump has finally got his way.

They will, of course, neglect to mention that it was only due to Trumps incompetence (and his team) that the ban caused such a problem in the 1st place. This ruling shows that a properly drafted plan would have sailed through the courts but he mucked it up, not once but twice, in such a way as to deem it almost pointless at this stage.

This was his first failure, and he has struggled to regain credibility since due to the cack handed way it was done.

Really Interested

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The irony of the whole thing is the US interferes in countless nations, both politically and militarily and has done in the past. So for the Russians to be doing the same to the US is just delicious irony, and upsets 7/10 people. Don is not one of those.

The previous poster said "68 percent of Americans are at least moderately concerned about the possibility that Trump or his campaign associates had inappropriate ties to Russia."

The important bit is "possibility that Trump or his campaign associates"