Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

So a meme calling for say rape is ok sure it's a meme. It's like the defences I was only joking. Taking the piss is not a magic shield against being rightly called a dick.

You either allow free speech or you don't, look at the problems conservatives face speaking at US campuses.

Maximus Alexander

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You either allow free speech or you don't, look at the problems conservatives face speaking at US campuses.

Free speech cuts both ways. It includes the right to tell people you think that they are dickheads and you don't want them to speak on your campus.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You either allow free speech or you don't, look at the problems conservatives face speaking at US campuses.

Where did I say he could not say what he wants I simply said if you say something dickish don't be surprised when you are called a Dick.

Also is it not free speech to say btw the guy who made a meme is xyz, somepeople forget free speech goes both ways.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You either allow free speech or you don't, look at the problems conservatives face speaking at US campuses.

Well speaking to a crowd is not free speech. You are no owed a crowd under free speech. I have no right to go to MIT and give a talk (well I can stand on campus and talk but that is something else). The university is not required to let me give a talk and the students can protest against that decision in either direction (peacefully).

Secondly there is no country that really guarantees free speech. Certain things like encouraging violence can get you in jail. Finally this person's right to free speech has not been impinged upon near as I can see even if CNN have said they would release his info as he is still free to say what he has been saying. There may be consequences but that is life. Note that I have been pretty clear that I do not agree with CNN in this instance but I have rarely seen the cry of free speech being blocked being used where free speech has in fact been blocked.

Free speech means I am allowed stand around saying things but no one is required to give me a soapbox.

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

Well speaking to a crowd is not free speech. You are no owed a crowd under free speech. I have no right to go to MIT and give a talk (well I can stand on campus and talk but that is something else). The university is not required to let me give a talk and the students can protest against that decision in either direction (peacefully).

That's not what I'm saying. Invited speakers get shut down all the time over there. Anyway that is neither here nor there.

Not you specifically, but I do have the feeling if Fox or even Trump singled out a private individual for photo-shopping a wrestling gif and telling that person publicly they'll be outed if they do it again certain posters would be singing a different tune. His posting history and the fact Trump tweeted it has nothing to do with it. Hyper partisanship has no room for morals.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying. Invited speakers get shut down all the time over there. Anyway that is neither here nor there.

Not you specifically, but I do have the feeling if Fox or even Trump singled out a private individual for photo-shopping a wrestling gif and telling that person publicly they'll be outed if they do it again certain posters would be singing a different tune. His posting history and the fact Trump tweeted it has nothing to do with it. Hyper partisanship has no room for morals.

Which is it free speech or partisanship please make up your mind. So we can at least not have to deal with shifting goal posts.

wes

Nicking my own post from AH, and changing it a bit for here.

One of the other meme's from the Reddit user (not using his username) was identifying Jewish employees of CNN:

Reddit User Behind Trump's anti-CNN Video Has History of anti-Semitism, Islamophobia


This alt-right anti-semite Reddit poster was singling out Jewish employees of CNN. Now considering that Pizza gate which originated on Donald Trump fan boy parts of Reddit, resulted in a shooting in Washington DC, such singling out could be seen as being dangerous.

ThisRegard

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You either allow free speech or you don't, look at the problems conservatives face speaking at US campuses.

Free speech allows you to be antisemitic and the likes? In the AH thread it was pointed out to you there are laws around this.

He could be in real trouble if the ADL, and they have been like dogs with bones on things like this in the past, push it further.

Sonics2k

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

This is uh, interesting behaviour from CNN. The guy is just a random reddit user

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-user-trump-tweet/index.html

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/882419812189835264

Lmao I love the poll

Is CNN worse than ISIS?

Get a grip.

Christy42

I am little curious how this will play out for Trump.

It is bad for cnn who has very much said he is an enemy of. That could work out and gives a nice rally round the flag soundbite for followers. I doubt it will win him any followers. It says nothing about the man himself (cnn's actions, not his own tweet).

However it has thrown the light on a specific Trump supporter who will be attached in people's minds as representative and the supporter is an absolute piece of scum. I mean I don't think one person should be held up as an example of the entire community but it does not help the Trump supporter image. There is obviously an issue of racism within the ranks of Trunp's supporters given the reddit forum (and the places other posters from r/Donald post) and this could highlight it more than is wanted.

Hank Scorpio

4chan has started doxxing CNN employees

Billy86

There's an interesting ripple in this story that hasn't been mentioned yet, which is that it wasn't actually CNN that unmasked him initially, it was a journalist/Georgia Southern University assistant over his own Twitter account - who subsequently received various death threats (not necessarily surprising among a certain, fairly large subsection of Trump fans).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jared-sexton-trump-cnn-tweet_us_595a6656e4b0da2c7324d3d6?qbpe&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Jared Yates Sexton, a New York Times contributor and assistant professor of creative writing at Georgia Southern University, shared with HuffPost several threatening messages directed at him since he unmasked the troll Sunday. In one, a Reddit user warns of a looming “journocaust” — presumably a holocaust for journalists. In another, a Twitter user says there’s “a civil war coming” and that memes — specifically, the antisemitic one by the creator of the video that Trump shared — are “the least” of Sexton’s problems.

It's not the first time he has received death threats from Trump fans:

https://newrepublic.com/article/134534/told-truth-donald-trump-rally-trolls-threatened-life

This is how, last Tuesday, I found myself driving five hours to Greensboro, North Carolina, to report on a Donald Trump rally and live-tweet the proceedings to all 1,400 of my followers.

...

The self-identified Men’s Rights Advocates just seemed eager to lay into someone they perceived as a liberal “value-signaler.” They targeted my masculinity and sexual orientation, labeling me a “cuck” and a “libfag.” Before I knew it, I was receiving multiple email notices that I’d been signed up for a variety of hardcore gay pornography services.

By Saturday, the new cause online was a concentrated effort to try and cost me my job at Georgia Southern. The trolls planned a deluge of calls and emails to my college’s dean and Georgia’s Board of Regents. Though they were obviously unaware of the protections of academic freedom, and that a few complaints couldn’t strip me of my professorship, they said to “make things up” because “there are no rules with the left.”

Trailing not far behind were the white supremacists.

...

Twitter user named “Warrior Queen,” whose handle is @SupaGoy88 and avatar is a meme of a small girl sporting a goat’s head. “National Socialist,” the bio read. “One more cuck for the tree,” this person tweeted, and because I was still trying to learn about these subcultures, I asked SupaGoy88 what “the tree” meant, and received the answer: ["the tree you will hang from"]"

Over the next hour there were two more, including an assessment from “Marijan,” a “European culture & heritage enthusiast” who had added me to his list “Traitorous whites (purge).” He wrote that I was “a real oven-worthy ******.” Minutes later, @Khazer_Soze (whose Twitter page has since been deleted), told me how fun it would be when “we finally get our boots on your neck.”

...

Just last night, sitting at my desk and working on a draft of this very essay, I watched an unfamiliar car circle my house a half dozen times, stopping each lap to idle at the edge of my driveway, before u-turning down the street and pulling into neighbors’ driveways and doing it all over again.

I called the police and installed a top-of-the-line security system. A week ago this would’ve seemed absurd.

And as to the question of how much of this is done due to feeling empowered by the likes of Trump's carry on, and by online anonymity, from that same article:

Make no mistake, the people behind these harassments, particularly the violent and especially ugly ones, are vile. But just as I had gone to Greensboro to empathize with Trump’s base, I attempted to engage my trolls to glean their motivations. To my surprise, some of them abandoned their attacks and met me halfway.

Since then I’ve been trading messages with people who, only days ago, aggressively questioned my motives and my integrity. They tell me about their children, their jobs, their favorite movies. Chances are we’ll never agree politically, but we can at least have a conversation.

Maybe that’s the antidote to all of this anxiety and fear. Seeing past the names on the screen. Staring into the divide and finding the person on the other side of the machine.

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

4chan has started doxxing CNN employees

Is that legal?

Maximus Alexander

Let's help the president become an authoritarian by trying to destroy the free press! Yay!

People are such utter imbeciles.

Hank Scorpio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Is that legal?

I doubt it.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I doubt it.

Can you make up your mind are you for or against free speech or do you accept there are legitimate restraints on speech for any society to impose?

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

4chan has started doxxing CNN employees

This is a big escalation in my mind. I mean it just seems to be encouraging violent behaviour.

Depending on how they got the info it may or may not be legal but it is certainly a large escalation in this situation and the worst that has been done in the sorry saga.

Captain Obvious

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Is that legal?

I'm sure they'll stop if CNN promise to not coerce members of the public for making a stupid gif.

wes

Christy42 wrote: »

This is a big escalation in my mind. I mean it just seems to be encouraging violent behaviour.

Depending on how they got the info it may or may not be legal but it is certainly a large escalation in this situation and the worst that has been done in the sorry saga.

Will probably see the Reddit poster get doxed by other people online (or the same people, some of these guys just do it for the lulz). We will probably see the Internet trolls, now start flinging death threats, and some of the crazier elements may even act on them, as per the Pizza gate shooting.

LeinsterDub

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'm sure they'll stop if CNN promise to not coerce members of the public for making a stupid gif.

Being tracked down isn't coercion. Have I missed an element of this story?

Captain Obvious

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Being tracked down isn't coercion. Have I missed an element of this story?

They have said they may release his information if he offends them again.

CNN is not publishing "HanA**holeSolo's" name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he has taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again. In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.

CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change

Hank Scorpio

wes wrote: »

We will probably see the Internet trolls, now start flinging death threats, and some of the crazier elements may even act on them, as per the Pizza gate shooting.

Those trolls should practise harmony and take lessons from the left.

PopePalpatine

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Let's help the president become an authoritarian by trying to destroy the free press! Yay!

People are such utter imbeciles.

Nah, those neckbeards know what they're doing, and think they're being "alpha".

LeinsterDub

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They have said they may release his information if he offends them again.

Pretty standard legalese. You'll often hear x has refused to take action at this time but reserve the right to do so in the future.

The guy is in the center of a world wide news story , he is of the public interest.

Captain Obvious

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Pretty standard legalese. You'll often hear x has refused to take action at this time but reserve the right to do so in the future.

The guy is in the center of a world wide news story , he is of the public interest.

Nonsense. He made a stupid gif and they didn't like it so they are threatening to release his information to the world if he does anything they don't like. It's disgraceful and if it was Fox doing it to someone on the left many people here would be rightly outraged. It really damages the position of anti-Trump posters when they cannot accept when CNN do something that is clearly wrong.

LeinsterDub

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Nonsense. He made a stupid gif and they didn't like it so they are threatening to release his information to the world if he does anything they don't like. It's disgraceful and if it was Fox doing it to someone on the left many people here would be rightly outraged. It really damages the position of anti-Trump posters when they cannot accept when CNN do something that is clearly wrong.

Imagine a case where someone called in a bomb scare hoax that ended up causing the All Ireland being delayed? Would RTÉ be entitled to track them person down or was it just a prank?

Billy86

Now up to 44 states refusing to comply with Trump's demand for voter info - https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/07/04/now-44-states-have-refused-trump-commissions-demand-for-voter-info/#15b0066a4458

Captain Obvious

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Imagine a case where someone called in a bomb scare hoax that ended up causing the All Ireland being delayed? Would RTÉ be entitled to track them person down or was it just a prank?

Hoax bomb threat is a crime though. This guy made a stupid gif.

Really Interested

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Nonsense. He made a stupid gif and they didn't like it so they are threatening to release his information to the world if he does anything they don't like. It's disgraceful and if it was Fox doing it to someone on the left many people here would be rightly outraged. It really damages the position of anti-Trump posters when they cannot accept when CNN do something that is clearly wrong.

He is entitled to make any gif on CNN or his racist thoughts, but if he does then people who know his ID also under free speech can say who he is. Free speech goes both ways.

Christy42

Billy86 wrote: »

Now up to 44 states refusing to comply with Trump's demand for voter info - https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/07/04/now-44-states-have-refused-trump-commissions-demand-for-voter-info/#15b0066a4458

I am loving some of the replies. Stuff like please make a request for public info from our website, it is 20 bucks. Just some beautiful ways of telling them where to shove it.

LeinsterDub

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Hoax bomb threat is a crime though. This guy made a stupid gif.

An action that wasn't a crime then . And the gif has become of world wide interest.

Leroy42

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Nonsense. He made a stupid gif and they didn't like it so they are threatening to release his information to the world if he does anything they don't like. It's disgraceful and if it was Fox doing it to someone on the left many people here would be rightly outraged. It really damages the position of anti-Trump posters when they cannot accept when CNN do something that is clearly wrong.

But the guy accepts he did it, accepts that he made those postings and accepts they are wrong. They are not calling to out him for anything he hasn't actually done, or something that he doesn't think is wrong.

They are saying that if he is happy to stand behind it they will let the world know who he is. If, as is the case, he now regrets them, they are willing to allow him to continue on as normal, lesson learned.

Its not about whether they like the gif or not. When they dug around a bit they found lots of pretty terrible postings.

Nobody is taking away his free speech, only himself.

PopePalpatine

And here was I thinking that the right loved personal responsibility.

Celticfire

PopePalpatine wrote: »

And here was I thinking that the right loved personal responsibility.

And here was I thinking that the left loved taking the moral high ground.

InTheTrees

PopePalpatine wrote: »

And here was I thinking that the right loved personal responsibility.

Here's a fun example of trump supporters level of discourse;

National Public Radio is government funded commercial free radio. Every Independence day NPR they broadcast a reading of the Declaration Of Independence. They've done it for thirty years.

The Declaration Of Independence is a hallowed document in America. Every citizen has heard it recited a thousand times. it is imprinted on their psyche. Or so you would suppose...

This year in addition to the broadcast NPR also decided to tweet it.

And it wasnt long before the trumpers were enraged and coming down on Npr for making fun of the president and inciting violence, etc etc...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/npr-declaration-of-independence_us_595c6525e4b0da2c7325bd50

wes

InTheTrees wrote: »

And it wasnt long before the trumpers were enraged and coming down on Npr for making fun of the president and inciting violence, etc etc...

Oh god that is amazing . How could they not know there own declaration of independence, or even if you didn't know surely the archaic language would be a dead give away.

InTheTrees

From Time Magazine yesterday:

More people trust CNN than the President of the USA:

"While Donald Trump has recently bashed CNN on Twitter, a new poll has found that more Americans actually trust the network more than the President."

http://time.com/4844498/americans-trust-cnn-donald-trump-poll/

PopePalpatine

Celticfire wrote: »

And here was I thinking that the left loved taking the moral high ground.

It's not hard when you're up against racist trolls.

Billy86

wes wrote: »

Oh god that is amazing . How could they not know there own declaration of independence, or even if you didn't know surely the archaic language would be a dead give away.

Probably has something to do with the addictive nature of seeing yourself as an oppressed victim...

Captain Obvious

Leroy42 wrote: »

But the guy accepts he did it, accepts that he made those postings and accepts they are wrong. They are not calling to out him for anything he hasn't actually done, or something that he doesn't think is wrong.

They are saying that if he is happy to stand behind it they will let the world know who he is. If, as is the case, he now regrets them, they are willing to allow him to continue on as normal, lesson learned.

Its not about whether they like the gif or not. When they dug around a bit they found lots of pretty terrible postings.

Nobody is taking away his free speech, only himself.

It's absolutely about them not liking his gif. There's not one person here who would be happy for their internet life and public identity to be made public to everyone from family to fanatics who oppose their view. That's why almost everyone on this site doesn't use their full name as their username.

listermint

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's absolutely about them not liking his gif. There's not one person here who would be happy for their internet life and public identity to be made public to everyone from family to fanatics who oppose their view. That's why almost everyone on this site doesn't use their full name as their username.

Surely family and friends would know your views if they are indeed family or friends or do people hold their deepest racist views to themselves ?

Leroy42

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's absolutely about them not liking his gif. There's not one person here who would be happy for their internet life and public identity to be made public to everyone from family to fanatics who oppose their view. That's why almost everyone on this site doesn't use their full name as their username.

Its not about being happy with it. He wrote that stuff, and CNN found out he he was. It would appear they offered him the option to stick by his postings or retract them.

He chose to retract them. They took that as enough to warrant not outing his real person. Should teach him, and others, that a made up name on boards etc does not remove your responsibility. You might think its an alter ego, but it is you. People need to get that into their heads. Same with cyber bullying etc.

The GIF was just the bit that drew attention to him. His argument is with Trump in that case.

Billy86

In other news, Mike Pence pulled a few small strings and got the Indiana GOP to ask on their Facebook paged "What's your Obamacare horror story? Let us know." What followed was... probably not what they were expecting - https://www.facebook.com/indgop/photos/a.10150239544016875.315511.54312801874/10154523183266875/?type=3&theater

Overheal

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You either allow free speech or you don't, look at the problems conservatives face speaking at US campuses.

You mean the other people there who are using free speech and a right to assemble? Aside from Berkley I'm not hearing too many cases where they were chased off with torches and pitchforks.

Overheal

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Nonsense. He made a stupid gif and they didn't like it so they are threatening to release his information to the world if he does anything they don't like. It's disgraceful and if it was Fox doing it to someone on the left many people here would be rightly outraged. It really damages the position of anti-Trump posters when they cannot accept when CNN do something that is clearly wrong.

How is it clearly wrong?

I had people arguing today that it was blackmail if they reveal his name. He was being doxed, etc.

Mind you we were talking on Facebook, where everyone knows your full name, where you live, where you work, who your spouse is...

B_Wayne

Overheal wrote: »

How is it clearly wrong?

I had people arguing today that it was blackmail if they reveal his name. He was being doxed, etc.

Mind you we were talking on Facebook, where everyone knows your full name, where you live, where you work, who your spouse is...

If a person is basically spending their time engaging in hate speech online and it comes out who they are. I'm not in any way sympathetic....

phater phagan

There are many Americans who call the U.S. Passport Office to ask if they need a passport for New Mexico - so anything they do doesn't surprise me. Of course there are many Americans who are extremely intelligent and fair-minded - we mustn't forget that three million more of them voted for Clinton than for Trump.

Overheal

Does anyone here take the stance that these cuts to medicaid are not cuts? I'm still looking for someone to explain that position to me in a way that doesn't seem ridiculous. If you cut the rate at which dollars are added to the program in the future, it is still a cut.

PopePalpatine

Sure, just wait for /r/The_Donald to move on from doxxing journalists, maybe then they'll come up with an excuse argument.

Captain Obvious

listermint wrote: »

Surely family and friends would know your views if they are indeed family or friends or do people hold their deepest racist views to themselves ?

You should be able to keep any part of you a secret if that's what you want. Would you be ok with a person being outed by the news? Surely it's nothing to be ashamed of and their family and friends should know?

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its not about being happy with it. He wrote that stuff, and CNN found out he he was. It would appear they offered him the option to stick by his postings or retract them.

He chose to retract them. They took that as enough to warrant not outing his real person. Should teach him, and others, that a made up name on boards etc does not remove your responsibility. You might think its an alter ego, but it is you. People need to get that into their heads. Same with cyber bullying etc.

The GIF was just the bit that drew attention to him. His argument is with Trump in that case.

People are still entitled to privacy. You are only defending CNN because the person they coerced into deleting everything is someone you dislike. If it truly is in the public interest they would have simply published it. Instead they played the role of some kind of internet police.

Overheal wrote: »

How is it clearly wrong?

I had people arguing today that it was blackmail if they reveal his name. He was being doxed, etc.

Mind you we were talking on Facebook, where everyone knows your full name, where you live, where you work, who your spouse is...

It's not blackmail, it's coercion. Tell me, why is your Boards name Overheal and not your actual name?