Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Zubeneschamali

demfad wrote: »

the likes of you will lie about your support for Donald Trump, the most infamous traitor in US history.

They'll be lying about it in a year's time!

AtomicHorror

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, they will just shift to "He wasn't a real republican anyway", bring up his D past, his friends the Clintons, show all the Tweets where he contradicted Republican policy and say how they voted for Cruz in the primaries.

Begging the questions of how the larger GOP got so broken they put up a blue-blooded Democrat as their nominee, supported him wholeheartedly through a campaign marred by scandals, defended him unfailingly through a train wreck presidency under a cloud of actual treason accusations...

I don't see how they get out of this any way they spin it- it was either on their watch or they weren't watching.

Leroy42

Palmy. do you really not have any suspicion that something is amiss here? How would you react if you learned that Leo had had secret meetings with May over the MI5 giving potential evidence on FF?

This isn't sharing of intel to combat terrorism, or getting together to formulate plans for Syria etc. Trump Hr has admitted that he met with this person with the express desire to obtain information that would be damaging to their opponent.

They will try to paint this (Trump Jr already has) as usual dirty tricks that happen in a campaign. And in the strictest sense he is right. The problem is that there is a major difference between getting info from national sources and actively encouraging a foreign agent to attack a fellow citizen.

You then have the very convenient timing of Trump Sr tweeting, for the first time, about HC and a potential missing 33k e-mails that very evening. And later asking the Russians to get those e-mails and release them.

AtomicHorror

Palmy wrote: »

No but what I do find amusing though is how you know everything being Irish and on an Irish Forum. Oh and by the way I am Irish and live in the States.

An Irishman who can't spot a cute hoor? Were you born in the US or have you just been there too long?

Billy86

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Begging the questions of how the larger GOP got so broken they put up a blue-blooded Democrat as their nominee, supported him wholeheartedly through a campaign marred by scandals, defended him unfailingly through a train wreck presidency under a cloud of actual treason accusations...

I don't see how they get out of this any way they spin it- it was either on their watch or they weren't watching.

When you have spent decades cultivating a fundamentalist base who don't vote for you, your policies, your track record, or against your opponents, their history and their track record or anything of the sort, you would be amazed how far that will go. Tens of millions in the US simply vote for the letter (R) and nothing more, as will be proven in full in 2018 given what the AHCA has shown to be, even if it means making potential martyrs of themselves in the name of a letter in the alphabet.

Billy86

Leroy42 wrote: »

Palmy. do you really not have any suspicion that something is amiss here?

Doesn't matter if he does or doesn't (with Trump supporters even if they do they won't admit it), Trump Jr, Kushner and Manafort did met with closely Kremlin connected people to discuss adoptions programs and thus US sanctions on Russia, as well as to gain damaging information on a rival candidate to help influence the election. Trump Jr has confessed as much.

Claiming otherwise is like claiming Leroy42 did not make the post I am currently responding to.

Leroy42

Yes I know it doesn't matter, any more than it matters what we think.

But it strikes me as rather an odd position to take given the evidence given by Trump Jr himself. As Billy86 pointed out, the facts are not being disputed. The meeting happened, the people that were there, the stuff that was discussed. Everything that NYT has posted has proven to be correct. So far, everything that Trump Jr responded was, at best, a limited version.

So who to believe? Do we believe the NYT which seems to have this story in full and has led Trump Jr down a path to incriminate himself, or Trump JR who has been shown to be a liar?

So once you accept the basis of the story, then one must consider if you find the story important or not. I just cannot understand how anyone, GOP or DNC, USA or not, can read this story and think that it is nothing.

I would be interested in hearing Palmy reasons.

Really Interested

seamus wrote: »

I think one of the more interesting aspects of this farce are posts like the above, on an Irish forum, where you have someone trying to say, "Nothing to see here, show's over folks, more important things to worry about".

When the Republicans finally go to ditch Trump, how will they deal with people like the above, so deeply entrenched in their support for Trump that they can't see the wood for the trees?

This could potentially result in a major fracture in the Republican party. This would cause panic in the Republicans who would demand electoral reform - having two republican parties would guarantee a democratic president.

Which in the long run, would result in a much better system in the US.

Dont worry the trump supporters will do what all supporters of despots in history do when the gig is up, use the Bart Simpson defence.

Christy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well there appears to be proof that Trump & Son are lying. From the article:

"Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email."

Surely collusion would count as compromising information? I mean we know it was made up to get the patsys to the meeting so I don't see the exact claim being collusion with the Russians reflecting badly on Hillary. It is believable as it is the sort of info the Russian insiders would know and would make a good lure to get the all to eager to collude Trump to the meeting.

Zubeneschamali

demfad wrote: »

If Trump jnr knowingly tried to get help from Russia to help his father win the election then this is treason.

That's exactly what the 3rd installment of the story in the NYT says: that Donald Jr was told before the meeting that a Russian government operation had found dirt on Clinton. That's what he went looking for at the meeting.

WASHINGTON — Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

The email to the younger Mr. Trump was sent by Rob Goldstone, a publicist and former British tabloid reporter who helped broker the June 2016 meeting. In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Trump acknowledged that he was interested in receiving damaging information about Mrs. Clinton, but gave no indication that he thought the lawyer might have been a Kremlin proxy.

Mr. Goldstone’s message, as described to The New York Times by the three people, indicates that the Russian government was the source of the potentially damaging information.

Zubeneschamali

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I don't see how they get out of this any way they spin it- it was either on their watch or they weren't watching.

It will be the same as how they mostly supported anyone-but-Trump in the Primaries, but once Trump was the candidate, they all voted for him.

As soon as Trump is out, they will never have supported him, and will be backing Kim Kardashian or whoever it is who is wheeled out with an R by their name.

Water John

Given what we know of the meeting, Kushner should immediately resign or be fired by Trump. That is what should, normally happen.

It is clear and unambigious that all 3, at least attempted to collude with a foreign power, to usurp the democratic basis of the USA, that is treason.
At least, they let Russia know, they were open for business. The cooincidence of Trump, that very day, calling for the release by Russia of Clinton's emails, would indicate a lot more was discussed.

Leroy42

Kushner really should have been fired when the previous meeting about back channels came to light.

That he survived that, no sorry in reality it was never a survival as almost no pressure was exerted over it, does not bode well for this.

Its almost of if USA has had an about face and thinks that Russia is somehow its friend. Whilst I agree that the Anti-Russia, commies under the bed was over the top, this new found feeling that HC and the DNC are a bigger threat to USA that Russia is baffling. It seems that years of hating Russia, Russia being seen as the Ant-USA has been totally forgotten.

One thing that seems to have been largely overlooked is the comments that Rex Tillerson gave at the G20. He (paraphrasing) said that maybe Russia had the right plan for Syria after all and the US are wrong! What? I mean, even if that was true, for a POTUS to allow that to be said on the world stage, basically accepting that Russia should lead the way and USA will play along.

Can you imagine if Obama had said that? In effect Trump has handed over the position of world leader to Putin within 6 months of taking over.

I am with Trump on getting closer ties with Russia (and all other nations for that matter) but this seems to be that closer ties is all that matters and Russia can basically do whatever it likes.

DaniilKharms

Leroy42 wrote: »

Kushner really should have been fired when the previous meeting about back channels came to light.

That he survived that, no sorry in reality it was never a survival as almost no pressure was exerted over it, does not bode well for this.

Its almost of if USA has had an about face and thinks that Russia is somehow its friend. Whilst I agree that the Anti-Russia, commies under the bed was over the top, this new found feeling that HC and the DNC are a bigger threat to USA that Russia is baffling. It seems that years of hating Russia, Russia being seen as the Ant-USA has been totally forgotten.

One thing that seems to have been largely overlooked is the comments that Rex Tillerson gave at the G20. He (paraphrasing) said that maybe Russia had the right plan for Syria after all and the US are wrong! What? I mean, even if that was true, for a POTUS to allow that to be said on the world stage, basically accepting that Russia should lead the way and USA will play along.

Can you imagine if Obama had said that? In effect Trump has handed over the position of world leader to Putin within 6 months of taking over.

I am with Trump on getting closer ties with Russia (and all other nations for that matter) but this seems to be that closer ties is all that matters and Russia can basically do whatever it likes.

Closer ties is great in theory, but it's also kinda ridiculous in practice.

Russia's goals and interests are mutually exclusive from the US' goals and interests, to a large degree.

While they CAN cooperate on some things, it's absurd to think Putin's Russia can be an ally of the West, while he's actively trying to undermine Western institutions.

ECO_Mental

Fox News are now saying that it looks dodgy....meeting Russians to get oppo information. Its Collusion at least if not more..... treason... working with a hostile foreign government

Id say stupidity counts for a lot here also, Trump et al didnt realise that they were now in politics and in government of sorts. They were used to dirty tricks in private industry and it didnt matter really if you got caught you just paid them of settled out of court. It was arrogance, ignorance, stupidity ego etc made them think they are above the law. Luckily ignorance and stupidity is no defense in the eyes of the law especially for the FBI and big boy politics.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/11/has-smoke-led-to-fire-donald-trump-jr-wanted-oppo-on-hillary.html

DaniilKharms

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Fox News are now saying that it looks dodgy....meeting Russians to get oppo information. Its Collusion at least if not more..... treason... working with a hostile foreign government

Id say stupidity counts for a lot here also, Trump et al didnt realise that they were now in politics and in government of sorts. They were used to dirty tricks in private industry and it didnt matter really if you got caught you just paid them of settled out of court. It was arrogance, ignorance, stupidity ego etc made them think they are above the law. Luckily ignorance and stupidity is no defense in the eyes of the law especially for the FBI and big boy politics.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/07/11/has-smoke-led-to-fire-donald-trump-jr-wanted-oppo-on-hillary.html

Manafort knew better and was in the meeting. Manafort "was previously an adviser to the U.S. presidential campaigns of Republicans Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bob Dole".

So that excuse won't work.

DaniilKharms

It's also crucial to remember that when Gore's campaign was handed the Bush team's debate playbook they didn't use it, they called the FBI. That's the standard.

The fact that someone like Manafort didn't IMMEDIATELY call the FBI is all anyone that understands this stuff really needs to know.

aloyisious

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well there appears to be proof that Trump & Son are lying. From the article:

"Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email."

Edited on seeing mention of Goldstone above... That mention of an Email is strange. I can't see Goldstone mentioning the subject matter in writing [except to cover his ass by mentioning in print in advance the subject matter - I told them of Russian Govt involvement and if they didn't heed my hint, amen] It's almost like some-one else was aware of the subject on what the lawyer's friend [presumably Goldstone] told Don Jnr the lawyer allegedly had in her possession and "advised" Don to be wary of the claim. It might explain why Paul Manafort was at the meet, seeing as he had experience in Russian matters.

Silver Lynel

demfad wrote: »

But for his supporters there will be a time in the future when other generations ask about Trump, perhaps kids and grandkids and the likes of you will lie about your support for Donald Trump, the most infamous traitor in US history.

I love this overly dramatic nonsense.

I agree with Palmy on this. The whole tinfoil hat, Russia conspiracy, stuff is actually getting in the way of dealing with any proper issues.

Hopefully Trump is still around to win the 2020 election and when other generations ask about him I will say I didn't vote for him but I did spent many a day online laughing at idiot conspiracy theories and spicy memes as The Donald defeated Crooked Hillary. Most 71 year olds can't even work a TV remote. This guy trolled his way into the White House.

I don't care who you are, that's impressive.

Leroy42

Silver Lynel wrote: »

I love this overly dramatic nonsense.

I agree with Palmy on this. The whole tinfoil hat, Russia conspiracy, stuff is actually getting in the way of dealing with any proper issues.

Hopefully Trump is still around to win the 2020 election and when other generations ask about him I will say I didn't vote for him but I did spent many a day online laughing at idiot conspiracy theories and spicy memes as The Donald defeated Crooked Hillary. Most 71 year olds can't even work a TV remote. This guy trolled his way into the White House.

I don't care who you are, that's impressive.

How can you post that when we have clear evidence of Trump Jr meeting with the Russians. not only that but he has admitted the meeting took place and even admitted what was the purpose of the meeting.

When did HC ever commit treason, because it is looking increasingly likely that Trump has.

And do you think HC would have let Putin walk all over her like Trump just did at the G20?

aloyisious

Silver Lynel wrote: »

I love this overly dramatic nonsense.

I agree with Palmy on this. The whole tinfoil hat, Russia conspiracy, stuff is actually getting in the way of dealing with any proper issues.

Hopefully Trump is still around to win the 2020 election and when other generations ask about him I will say I didn't vote for him but I did spent many a day online laughing at idiot conspiracy theories and spicy memes as The Donald defeated Crooked Hillary. Most 71 year olds can't even work a TV remote. This guy trolled his way into the White House.

I don't care who you are, that's impressive.

Does your description of the way Don entered the W/H mean you agree with most of the other posters here that Don used strange methods to get the presidency and your admiration of Don is based solely on his beating the two parties to get the Oval Office job? Part of the problem for the GOP and it's inability to get it's job done on dealing with proper issues [like an affordable healthcare act for the average voter] is contrarily caused by them having to get past the SNAFU's caused by Don.

One of the peculiar things of how things are so screwed-up in US domestic politics because of Don is that he's probably high on the anarchists love list for doing it all from the inside.

Palmy

demfad wrote: »

Palmy wrote: »

No but what I do find amusing though is how you know everything being Irish and on an Irish Forum. Oh and by the way I am Irish and live in the States.

If Trump jnr knowingly tried to get help from Russia to help his father win the election then this is treason. Yet you and many Trump supporters seem to think this is OK somehow?
I dont know if youre a genuine supporter or something else. But for his supporters there will be a time in the future when other generations ask about Trump, perhaps kids and grandkids and the likes of you will lie about your support for Donald Trump, the most infamous traitor in US history.

No what should be treason is when your the Secretary of State and sell 20 % of the U.S uranium to Russia who then gives it to Iran. Then those said people in Russia donate 100 million to the Clinton foundation and then your husband doubles his fee while doing speeches in Russia. Don't get me started on the 1000 of classified emails, 7 blackberry phones that mysteriously smashed into pieces and Benghazi.

DaniilKharms

Leroy42 wrote: »

How can you post that when we have clear evidence of Trump Jr meeting with the Russians. not only that but he has admitted the meeting took place and even admitted what was the purpose of the meeting.

When did HC ever commit treason, because it is looking increasingly likely that Trump has.

And do you think HC would have let Putin walk all over her like Trump just did at the G20?

I think he's just impressed that an elderly person can troll a nation successfully.

But of course trolling is just a subset of dishonesty. So basically, you know, if being impressed at someone's ability to lie is your thing, Trump is indeed impressive.

Palmy

You are worried about Trump Jr meeting a Russian lawyer who wasn't even working for the Russian Goverment at the time, who's previous visa was denied under Bush but somehow approved by the Obama administration. I smell a set up.

DaniilKharms

Palmy wrote: »

No what should be treason is when your the Secretary of State and sell 20 % of the U.S uranium to Russia who then gives it to Iran. Then those said people in Russia donate 100 million to the Clinton foundation and then your husband doubles his fee while doing speeches in Russia. Don't get me started on the 1000 of classified emails, 7 blackberry phones that mysteriously smashed into pieces and Benghazi.

That's NOT treason, as it was all legal.

Hillary did a LOT of shady things, and herself is no paragon of honesty or transparency, but calling that treason strains credulity. Corrupt, probably, but treasonous? Not by a mile.

And Benghazi, which was investigated multiple times by Republicans, discovered what? Nothing.

Celticfire

Palmy wrote: »

No what should be treason is when your the Secretary of State and sell 20 % of the U.S uranium to Russia who then gives it to Iran. Then those said people in Russia donate 100 million to the Clinton foundation and then your husband doubles his fee while doing speeches in Russia. Don't get me started on the 1000 of classified emails, 7 blackberry phones that mysteriously smashed into pieces and Benghazi.

Oh no.... you didn't just go there!! You do know that you're not supposed to bring up Obama or Hillary on this thread as it's of no concern to Trump bashers that there's a double standard to their outrages. Trumps is now the POTUS and only Trump bashing is allowed here.

As regards this "revelation" I believe it's just another nothingburger that will fizzle out but still form part of the conspiracy theory of Russian collusion.

Leroy42

Palmy wrote: »

No what should be treason is when your the Secretary of State and sell 20 % of the U.S uranium to Russia who then gives it to Iran. Then those said people in Russia donate 100 million to the Clinton foundation and then your husband doubles his fee while doing speeches in Russia. Don't get me started on the 1000 of classified emails, 7 blackberry phones that mysteriously smashed into pieces and Benghazi.

You are right to be sceptical of HC, but that is no what this thread is about.

But even taking your point above, all that you say is something that could be investigated to see if there was any reality beyond some claims.

Trump supporters continually ask for direct evidence, yet they are very willing to eskew that in terms of HC and have convicted her already.

I asked you previously, on what basis, given that we have direct confirmation from Trump Jr, do you reject this story?

Do you believe the story at all or simply you believe that regardless of the evidence it should be ignored?

I wonder why you are so exercised about one set of potential issues but so lax about another

DaniilKharms

Palmy wrote: »

You are worried about Trump Jr meeting a Russian lawyer who wasn't even working for the Russian Goverment at the time, who's previous visa was denied under Bush but somehow approved by the Obama administration. I smell a set up.

She CLAIMS she wasn't. Why are you so quick to believe that claim?

And the person that SET UP the meeting said the POINT of the meeting was to get oppo as part of the Russian gov's attempt to meddle in the election. Even going to that meeting is EXTREMELY dodgy.

And then not reporting the approach to the FBI, that's beyond dodgy.

And dear god, are you REALLY claiming that Obama/Clinton had a plot which involved:

- giving a Russian a visa, so that
- that Russian could approach a friend of Trump's, so that
- that friend could then tell the Trump campaign that this lawyer had oppo from the Russian gov., so that
- at some future point AFTER TRUMP WAS ELECTED WH staff could leak the email, so that
- Democrats could claim collusion?

That's TRULY insane.

Water John

The whitewash is out today, here and being sprayed everywhere.

At the very least, today, Kushner should be fired. But we'll have a drag out delay, like Flynn.

Leroy42

Celticfire wrote: »

Oh no.... you didn't just go there!! You do know that you're not supposed to bring up Obama or Hillary on this thread as it's of no concern to Trump bashers that there's a double standard to their outrages. Trumps is now the POTUS and only Trump bashing is allowed here.

As regards this "revelation" I believe it's just another nothingburger that will fizzle out but still form part of the conspiracy theory of Russian collusion.

It is no longer a theory. Trump Jr has confirmed that it is exactly what they tried to do.

Are are you really of the view that this was the only time they tried, and out of nowhere the Russians came calling? Remember, Trump claims he has nothing to do with Russia. So a Russian lawyer calls them up and claims they have stolen info and Trump Jr just goes to meet them?

And Trump bashers? You really don't see anything wrong with this picture? Even forgetting possible collusion, how can any american be happy with the rolling over of Trump to Putin? His total lack of achievement since taking office.

Its not bashing, just asking questions.

Silver Lynel

Leroy42 wrote: »

How can you post that when we have clear evidence of Trump Jr meeting with the Russians. not only that but he has admitted the meeting took place and even admitted what was the purpose of the meeting.

When did HC ever commit treason, because it is looking increasingly likely that Trump has.

And do you think HC would have let Putin walk all over her like Trump just did at the G20?

To be honest if he ends up getting done for treason or whatever then he should be punished in accordance with the law.

I won't even begrudge the people on here their day of glory and their glass of champagne or whatever. With all the time spent on this they've definitely earned it.

For now I just see a bunch of crazies spreading this wacky Russia conspiracy.

aloyisious

Palmy wrote: »

You are worried about Trump Jr meeting a Russian lawyer who wasn't even working for the Russian Goverment at the time, who's previous visa was denied under Bush but somehow approved by the Obama administration. I smell a set up.

Seriously, does that mean you think the Russian lawyer was a double-agent working for the DNC and the Clinton/Obama gang, that several branches of the Homeland Security system let her slip past their noses into the US, and the NYPD and Trump Tower security people let her privately meet Don Jnr etc there?

Palmy

So what did this so called collusion do. The only information leaked was true. They didn't change any votes. Dont get me wrong both parties are to blame and are just as bad as each other.
The truth is Trump is trying to do something better and put America first. Give the guy a chance. Obama didn't do anything in his 8 years as long as he got Obamacare in which is a disaster. I support Trump but don't support all of his ideas. Universal healthcare i for one support. It's crazy healthcare and it's costs. Corporate greed at its best.

Water John

The old defence,'Shur they are all at it'.
No, they are not. Check any previous Presedential campaign.

Just meeting the woman, knowing what she may bring to the table, is the offence.

Silver Lynel

aloyisious wrote: »

Does your description of the way Don entered the W/H mean you agree with most of the other posters here that Don used strange methods to get the presidency and your admiration of Don is based solely on his beating the two parties to get the Oval Office job? Part of the problem for the GOP and it's inability to get it's job done on dealing with proper issues [like an affordable healthcare act for the average voter] is contrarily caused by them having to get past the SNAFU's caused by Don.

One of the peculiar things of how things are so screwed-up in US domestic politics because of Don is that he's probably high on the anarchists love list for doing it all from the inside.

I'm not sure if "admiration" is the right word.

I think America has been playing with the idea of a Celebrity/Reality TV President for a while and I suppose the time was right for that.

I'm not convinced by the Russia stuff at all. Time will tell.

DaniilKharms

Palmy wrote: »

So what did this so called collusion do. The only information leaked was true. They didn't change any votes. Dont get me wrong both parties are to blame and are just as bad as each other.
The truth is Trump is trying to do something better and put America first. Give the guy a chance. Obama didn't do anything in his 8 years as long as he got Obamacare in which is a disaster. I support Trump but don't support all of his ideas. Universal healthcare i for one support. It's crazy healthcare and it's costs. Corporate greed at its best.

Let's just look at Obamacare, as that's what you've brought up.

It's broken, yes, and a big part of that is due to deliberate attempts by Republicans to sabotage it from day one.

And so what is Trump pushing?

A MASSIVE tax cut for the wealthy, paid for by removing health care from millions and millions of people.

How in the world is that making America better?

I mean, it makes a handful of rich people richer, but those aren't synonyms.

It should ALSO be noted, since you hate Obamacare so much, that Obamacare was designed by Republicans. And the prototype was passed into law by a Republican governor.

In fact the Obama folks thought that because it was a Republican plan they'd get Republican support, but instead - despite compromising on it with Republicans, and using a Republican plan - that was never going to happen.

Both parties are ATROCIOUS, but that not the same thing as saying Democrats suck, so give Trump a shot.

InTheTrees

Palmy wrote: »

So what did this so called collusion do.

Well for a start it broke the law. Its treason.

They still have the death penalty for treason.

Billy86

Palmy wrote: »

No what should be treason is when your the Secretary of State and sell 20 % of the U.S uranium to Russia who then gives it to Iran. Then those said people in Russia donate 100 million to the Clinton foundation and then your husband doubles his fee while doing speeches in Russia. Don't get me started on the 1000 of classified emails, 7 blackberry phones that mysteriously smashed into pieces and Benghazi.

Ignoring the fact that Trump has for years done tonnes of business with Russians, you can bring all of that up in the "But Hillary!" thread. You can try to find some secret meetings the Clinton campaign had with Russia where they discussed lifting sanctions and trading damaging information on Trump too if you wish, and if you can find it.

Meanwhile in the Trump thread, that is what is being discussed. Because his family, advisers and campaign had meetings in Trump's own residence and place of business with a highly Kremlin connected lawyer who has represented the Russian government in a case the same sanctions that would have been discussed when talking about adoption, and who was even married to a Russian government minister. And they went there with the express and explicit intent of getting damaging information on their election rival. That is definitive collusion for the hacked emails if that were discussed and for the adoption programs/sanctions - "An agreement between two or more people to defraud a person of his or her rights or to obtain something that is prohibited by law."

Trump Jr has unwittingly admitted to talking about sanctions along with Kushner and Manafort in Trump's own residence. That's what Flynn went down for, because it is directly against the law. I guess he should have got those lawyers to check with before going and screwing himself over like that.

DaniilKharms

BTW it's a Federal crime for a member of a campaign to solicit anything of value to the campaign from a foreign national, on top of everything else.

Billy86

Water John wrote: »

The old defence,'Shur they are all at it'.
No, they are not. Check any previous Presedential campaign.

Just meeting the woman, knowing what she may bring to the table, is the offence.

And discussing sanctions and adoption programs too:

953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

Water John

Looks like, a whole bunch of laws can be thrown at them. Just pick the most likely to succeed.

Celticfire

DaniilKharms wrote: »

And dear god, are you REALLY claiming that Obama/Clinton had a plot which involved:

- giving a Russian a visa, so that
- that Russian could approach a friend of Trump's, so that
- that friend could then tell the Trump campaign that this lawyer had oppo from the Russian gov., so that
- at some future point AFTER TRUMP WAS ELECTED WH staff could leak the email, so that
- Democrats could claim collusion?

That's TRULY insane.

What's actually insane is you claiming that is what they said, or alluded to saying.

DaniilKharms

Celticfire wrote: »

What's actually insane is you claiming that is what they said, or alluded to saying.

Sure, let's see if that passes the smell test. Here's what Palmy said:

Palmy wrote: »

You are worried about Trump Jr meeting a Russian lawyer who wasn't even working for the Russian Goverment at the time, who's previous visa was denied under Bush but somehow approved by the Obama administration. I smell a set up.

People can decide for themselves what that "set up" is supposed to be, and how it's connected to the visa Obama supposedly gave her...

LeinsterDub

Silver Lynel wrote: »

I didn't even think of this.

Can you imagine how horrifying it would be to see the Americans executing their own president?

Spence would pardon him if he had was impeached or quit

derb12

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Begging the questions of how the larger GOP got so broken they put up a blue-blooded Democrat as their nominee, supported him wholeheartedly through a campaign marred by scandals, defended him unfailingly through a train wreck presidency under a cloud of actual treason accusations...

I don't see how they get out of this any way they spin it- it was either on their watch or they weren't watching.

I think many of the GOP were very reluctant to back Trump in the early days, even post nomination. They didn't think he had any chance of winning. Practically nobody did. (Not even Putin, but imho his game was to have a hobbled scandal-ridden president Clinton and a new loudmouth adversary trump with his new trump tv platform adding to the chaos).
Once trump got elected, they were in a total quandary and probably mostly calculated that their least bad option was to go along with the trump train and shout about conservative justices on the Supreme Court when it came to reelection time. Everything since then has been like the painless death of a lobster in the pot as the heat is slowly turned up. Very few of the party seem ready to tell it like it is - Ben Sasse is one exception (I don't agree with his policies but at least he shows signs of having some balls!).
One GOP senator (link below) stated that the reason they aren't ready with a healthcare plan is that they didn't expect trump to win. The whole party has been caught off guard.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/powerpost/one-reason-the-gop-health-bill-is-such-a-mess-they-didnt-think-trump-would-win/2017/07/06/bed6a8e0-624a-11e7-8adc-fea80e32bf47_story.html

Water John

Yes Sasse, seems a true Republican conservative. Fine with me, what you see is what you get. May disagree with him, but would always respect him.
He might be the, lost soul, of the GOP.

Celticfire

DaniilKharms wrote: »

Sure, let's see if that passes the smell test. Here's what Palmy said:



People can decide for themselves what that "set up" is supposed to be, and how it's connected to the visa Obama supposedly gave her...

Perhaps the setup they were referring to was one by Trump to once again let the MSM run with a non story that will backfire. The Times has once again ran with a story without actually seeing the email. I suppose you could have asked them what they meant, but why bother when you can come up with your own version.

ancapailldorcha

Less of the one liners please.

Water John

I think the NYT have multiple verifications of what it said. They would not rely solely on one source.

aloyisious

Celticfire wrote: »

What's actually insane is you claiming that is what they said, or alluded to saying.

What set-up do you think palmy had in mind? You might be able to change my reading of palmy's post.