Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Professor Moriarty

mayo.mick wrote: »

What was that Kellyanne phrase again???

Alternative facts. They'd want to be very alternative this time around.

DaniilKharms

hollypink wrote: »

Yes, that's what's puzzling about it - surely it only helps him to get ahead of the story if it can be spun in some way to look less damaging?

Some of the mail trail doesn't seem real - who would state something so explicitly in an email? Would you not want to keep it very confidential?

The NYTs were literally about to publish. It was coming out no matter what.

Professor Moriarty

hollypink wrote: »

Yes, that's what's puzzling about it - surely it only helps him to get ahead of the story if it can be spun in some way to look less damaging?

Some of the mail trail doesn't seem real - who would state something so explicitly in an email? Would you not want to keep it very confidential?

If you're so insulated from the real world, as Junior has been all his life, you don't need to think of the consequences of what you say and do. Those emails would have been just another day at the office for Junior.

Leroy42

I too dont see any advantage to releasing those e-mails.
The only thing could be that they are partially redacted or there are other emails on top of these.

He has basically just admitted to attempted treason. No ifs, buts, whats the source, source is a democrat etc.

Perhaps NYT have emails from Jr to Sr?

If it an attempt to get ahead of the story it seems a very risky way of doing it

super_furry

DaniilKharms wrote: »

The NYTs were literally about to publish. It was coming out no matter what.

Yes but this way Trump and his brood are going to spin it like it's no big deal. It'll be a case of 'hey I've nothing to hide, I gave you the emails and they don't matter'. The Republican party will get behind this tactic, blame the 'fake news' media for bringing it up and treating it with the gravity is deserves and try to ignore the whole thing.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

And to think all those excuses about tgem not knowing who they were meeting, what was going to be discussed, this woman had no Kremlin connections.

Its all totally false. Nothing but lies. And Trumo has the audacity to call out Fake News!

This one seems different and is very fast getting out of control.

I'm thinking about how nasty Trump was to Clinton during the debates. He truly is a person of no character.

Professor Moriarty

super_furry wrote: »

Yes but this way Trump and his brood are going to spin it like it's no big deal. It'll be a case of 'hey I've nothing to hide, I gave you the emails and they don't matter'. The Republican party will get behind this tactic, blame the 'fake news' media for bringing it up and treating it with the gravity is deserves and try to ignore the whole thing.

Yes, but legally they matter a great deal.

DaniilKharms

super_furry wrote: »

Yes but this way Trump and his brood are going to spin it like it's no big deal. It'll be a case of 'hey I've nothing to hide, I gave you the emails and they don't matter'. The Republican party will get behind this tactic, blame the 'fake news' media for bringing it up and treating it with the gravity is deserves and try to ignore the whole thing.

Yep, and the same 30%+ that supported Trump yesterday will support him in a month.

DaniilKharms

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yes, but legally they matter a great deal.

Democrats on a witch hunt... Just like Muller.

DT Jr is a good guy like Mike Flynn... Everyine was so unfair to him...


Etc etc.

Lol, like father like son

Itssoeasy

I'm actually a little stunned. I mean for months everyone in the trump campaign/administration have been saying that there was no connection to Russia or the Russian government. I mean you couldn't get away from it,and now Donald trump Jr realeses emails that include the words Russia and Russian government in them.

Jesus wept Donald trump jr is going to have some explaining to do tonight. Also wolf blitzer is never going to be leaving the CNN building at this rate.

Professor Moriarty

DaniilKharms wrote: »

Democrats on a witch hunt... Just like Muller.

DT Jr is a good guy like Mike Flynn... Everyine was so unfair to him...


Etc etc.

I think this is beyond the pale. Spin only takes you so far before moderate Republicans begin to turn. Junior has admitted to a serious crime.

DaniilKharms

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Lol, like father like son

Same goes for JK.

Harry Palmr

When is the arrest of jnr and the impeachment of snr?

DaniilKharms

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think this is beyond the pale. Spin only takes you so far before moderate Republicans begin to turn. Junior has admitted to a serious crime.

I hope you're truly not that naive... These are people that have literally played politics with 30k gun deaths a year, stealing Healthcare from untold millions, etc. etc.

They'll do what they always do - whatever is best for them politically.

DaniilKharms

Harry Palmr wrote: »

When is the arrest of jnr and the impeachment of snr?

Probably never.

DaniilKharms

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm actually a little stunned. I mean for months everyone in the trump campaign/administration have been saying that there was no connection to Russia or the Russian government. I mean you couldn't get away from it,and now Donald trump Jr realeses emails that include the words Russia and Russian government in them.

Jesus wept Donald trump jr is going to have some explaining to do tonight. Also wolf blitzer is never going to be leaving the CNN building at this rate.

Wellllll...

Remember these are the same people that have lied untold numbers of times about anything to do with Russia.

So... This is just the latest greatest example.

Professor Moriarty

DaniilKharms wrote: »

I hope you're truly not that naive... These are people that have literally played politics with 30k gun deaths a year, stealing Healthcare from untold millions, etc. etc.

They'll do what they always do - whatever is best for them politically.

Nope, not naïve but thanks for the good wishes... I'm thinking about Republicans who are up for election next year and need some middle ground/swing voters to be re-elected. Not many will want to be seen to be propping up a dynasty that has admitted to colluding with Russian government representatives in order to interfere with an American election.

super_furry

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yes, but legally they matter a great deal.

Yeah but who's actually going to take him on? It will still need the Republican party in congress to actually impeach Trump himself and they've already shown that they don't care what he does as long as he's not a Democrat. Trump will never be impeached as long as the Republicans control congress - he could murder someone and they'd look the other way.

Junior might conceivably be in trouble, but again who's going to actually go after him and what are they going to charge him with?

I just don't think there's any appetite to really go after them legally and again, they're going to walk away from it all. John McCain will probably come out, say it's 'troubling' and then do nothing - that'll be the extent of this.

Billy86

DaniilKharms wrote: »

hollypink wrote: »

Yes, that's what's puzzling about it - surely it only helps him to get ahead of the story if it can be spun in some way to look less damaging?

Some of the mail trail doesn't seem real - who would state something so explicitly in an email? Would you not want to keep it very confidential?

The NYTs were literally about to publish. It was coming out no matter what.

And I would say they're delighted ir went this way instead, or should be. If they won that race it would be a lot more clicks, but trump Jr posting it himself eradicates the "fake news" line even Trump fans were struggling to push in this one already. It means the whole story has been validated, as has Manafort, Kushner and Trump Jr's role, and Russia's role, by Trump Jr himself.

seamus

I'm stunned that he's posted this.

Did he go and re-read it? Does he understand the magnitude?

"Hi Donald, A Russian contact of mine has information that incrimates Hilary Clinton and might be of use to your father's campaign"

"Great! We'd love to use this later on in the year"


So, rather than contacting the authorities about a presidential candidate potentially colluding with Russians, he jumps at the opportunity to use it to influence an election campaign. It's right there in black-and-white.

That's even before you get to the line which states that the Russian government is supporting Trump Snr's election bid. Since Trump Jr. makes no reference to this, he's clearly not at all surprised about it - i.e. he's fully aware of it.

Later emails also confirm that they knew the attorney wasn't just Russian, but a Russian Government agent.

This is kind of like releasing mobile phone footage of you stabbing a guy as proof that you're not guilty. WTF.

DaniilKharms

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nope, not naïve but thanks for the good wishes... I'm thinking about Republicans who are up for election next year and need some middle ground/swing voters to be re-elected. Not many will want to be seen to be propping up a dynasty that has admitted to colluding with Russian government representatives in order to interfere with an American election.

Those republicans, even the moderates, are scared to death of the GOP base. As long as the base is with Trump, Trump is safe.

And of course a huge percentage of Republicans think that the media is pushing fake news to attack Trump, because the media is liberal and want to destroy America. Etc.

demfad

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm actually a little stunned. I mean for months everyone in the trump campaign/administration have been saying that there was no connection to Russia or the Russian government. I mean you couldn't get away from it,and now Donald trump Jr realeses emails that include the words Russia and Russian government in them.

Jesus wept Donald trump jr is going to have some explaining to do tonight. Also wolf blitzer is never going to be leaving the CNN building at this rate.

The NY Times may have a fuller thread of emails. Don Jr has released this under legal advice. That means that legally this was his BEST option. If that's his BEST option then it's bad.

Really Interested

demfad wrote: »

The NY Times may have a fuller thread of emails. Don Jr has released this under legal advice. That means that legally this was his BEST option. If that's his BEST option then it's bad.

How do you know he released after legal advice. If released after legal advice why do so through Twitter.

super_furry

Really Interested wrote: »

How do you know he released after legal advice.

Come on, you've got to believe he's not THAT stupid. I mean even if he is, he'll be surrounded by people who make these decision for him, there's no way he did this without the nod from his family's legal team.

Really Interested

super_furry wrote: »

Come on, you've got to believe he's not THAT stupid. I mean even if he is, he'll be surrounded by people who make these decision for him, there's no way he did this without the nod from his family's legal team.

I do believe he is that stupid.

Attached is the Don Jr. statement released with the e-mails read it read the emails and tell me a lawyer was consulted. I'll tell you why not the statement contradicts the e-mails it was clear who and what he was dealing with in the emails. If a lawyer checked those emails and the statement I would not be happy.

demfad

Really Interested wrote: »

How do you know he released after legal advice. If released after legal advice why do so through Twitter.

Because of whatever is coming in the NYTimes it is clearly vital to get the info to a large audience quickly. Twitter is the vehicle for this. The Whitehouse team has long abandoned any care about what is true or not (when possible). They care about what they can make their base believe.

Enzokk

In a few years time there will be a movie made of this whole debacle. It will be so outrageous will seem to outlandish that people will think it is some sort of fiction. Then you will see the real clips from news shows showing that its all true and you will just shake your head wondering how this was allowed to happen.

Really Interested

demfad wrote: »

Because of whatever is coming in the NYTimes it is clearly vital to get the info to a large audience quickly. Twitter is the vehicle for this. The Whitehouse team has long abandoned any care about what is true or not (when possible). They care about what they can make their base believe.

That explains why twitter it does not explain the statement and the email from 3rd June. No lawyer worth a crap degree would say the statement was ok.

Really Interested

Enzokk wrote: »

In a few years time there will be a movie made of this whole debacle. It will be so outrageous will seem to outlandish that people will think it is some sort of fiction. Then you will see the real clips from news shows showing that its all true and you will just shake your head wondering how this was allowed to happen.

What will be more fun is the people I know who promoted Trump who will in a few years swear they never fell for his bull.

super_furry

Really Interested wrote: »

I do believe he is that stupid.

Attached is the Don Jr. statement released with the e-mails read it read the emails and tell me a lawyer was consulted. I'll tell you why not the statement contradicts the e-mails it was clear who and what he was dealing with in the emails. If a lawyer checked those emails and the statement I would not be happy.

Jesus, hadn't seen that statement. "The entire email chain of my emails about the meeting" - it's like a child wrote it and like you say it totally contradicts the emails. I'm honestly confused after reading that.

Really Interested

super_furry wrote: »

Jesus, hadn't seen that statement. "The entire email chain of my emails about the meeting" - it's like a child wrote it and like you say it totally contradicts the emails. I'm honestly confused after reading that.

The statement when read with the emails proves one thing the Don Jr. is actully stupid. If you going to release the emails do so but he had to also make the statement which does not tally. No one looked at both statement and email before posting if they had they would have said wait a bit your statement does not support what's in the email either the Don Jr is thick or he thinks there are enough people out in the world who are.

Professor Moriarty

Tim Kaine thinks Junior has committed treason.

DaniilKharms

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Tim Kaine thinks Junior has committed treason.

Even Jeffrey Toobin thinks that is absurd. Dont forget both sides are playing politics with this.

super_furry

I still don't think anything meaningful will come from this because of the Republican party's desire to just ignore everything the Trumps do, but Christ, it's mental stuff.

mcmoustache

Celticfire wrote: »

As regards this "revelation" I believe it's just another nothingburger that will fizzle out but still form part of the conspiracy theory of Russian collusion.

Still think Russian collusion is a nothingburger?

Anyway, since I'm a nice guy, I'll let you know that the Trump talking point has moved from "No Collusion" to "Collusion isn't illegal". In fact, it's been like that for the past 2 weeks or more.

The only people thinking that this is a nothingburger are getting their information from Hannity and the breitbart comments section.

super_furry

mcmoustache wrote: »

The only people thinking that this is a nothingburger are getting their information from Hannity and the breitbart comments section.

But who's actually going to raise their head above the parapet and make it into something? I'd love to think you're right, but I just can't see that anyone's going to come after them and try to make something stick.

Rjd2

super_furry wrote: »

I still don't think anything meaningful will come from this because of the Republican party's desire to just ignore everything the Trumps do, but Christ, it's mental stuff.

The problem is the constant stories, and as today has proven the Trump camp keeps handling them awfully.Its not even six months into his reign ffs:pac:

I try to look at all these things fairly, as plenty on the left and right have an agenda, but the fairest thing I can say about young Donald is he an incredibly stupid young man.:)

Professor Moriarty

DaniilKharms wrote: »

Even Jeffrey Toobin thinks that is absurd. Dont forget both sides are playing politics with this.

Of course they are. However, the Trumps are hopelessly compromised. It''s just that the dirt is being released very slowly. It's what happens when you dump all over intel agencies who have been monitorin you for decades. And the media of course. Trump and his past will continue to provide ammunition to his opponents for as long as he lasts. And, slowly but surely, that will also erode Republican support.

aloyisious

Really Interested wrote: »

That explains why twitter it does not explain the statement and the email from 3rd June. No lawyer worth a crap degree would say the statement was ok.

It reads strange but, to his mind at the moment, might seem some sort of exculpatory evidence to explain his actions, like: I only went along with the meet & agenda of the lawyer to hear what she had to say and left soon after. I even took witnesses with me to the meeting.........

The fact that disbelief will be strong in the reader doesn't matter to him. I'm not doing devil's advocate, just left the debate for a while and then saw David Badash had posted ref to release of Don Jnr's emails on F/B, read it and facepalmed WTF.

It's not just the NYT.... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi8yOH82YHVAhWHIsAKHf4sD5UQFghjMAs&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fjournalsentinel%2Fposts%2F10155701995803816&usg=AFQjCNHDY7G7uDS1LWPlFwCkcBj1fHuobQ

Really Interested

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/document-Donaldtrumpjr.html

Easier to read.

strandroad

If you look closely, he forwarded the meeting email to Kushner and Malafort as "FW: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential".

This is Benny Hill territory.

Really Interested

mhge wrote: »

If you look closely, he forwarded the meeting email to Kushner and Malafort as "FW: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential".

This is Benny Hill territory.

But they knew nothing lol.

UsedToWait

I wonder how the people, particularly the late of this parish Hank Scorpio feel about the hours and weeks they have put in defending the Trump swamp.

(Hi Hank, I'm sure you're enjoying your reincarnation)

Really Interested

UsedToWait wrote: »

I wonder how the people, particularly the late of this parish Hank Scorpio feel about the hours and weeks they have put in defending the Trump swamp.

(Hi Hank, I'm sure you're enjoying your reincarnation)

I'm convinced he knew this was coming and set up a new account rather than face the music.

DaniilKharms

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Of course they are. However, the Trumps are hopelessly compromised. It''s just that the dirt is being released very slowly. It's what happens when you dump all over intel agencies who have been monitorin you for decades. And the media of course. Trump and his past will continue to provide ammunition to his opponents for as long as he lasts. And, slowly but surely, that will also erode Republican support.

We'll just agree to disagree.

swampgas

Have Pence or Ryan made any statements yet?

Just how many other senior republicans are compromised, that they are prepared to put up with blatantly treasonous behaviour going on right under their noses?

The US government is seriously compromised by this. Putin must laughing his socks off.

Itssoeasy

I'd say Putin is baffled how easy this has been.

Ludo

When even Fox are saying "What did Trump Snr know and when did he know it?" is a valid question which must be answered then you know it is serious. That is an admission that something seriously "wrong" has taken place.

I have been watching Fox and CNN for the last 90 mins (switching back and forth) and I honestly think Fox are in a state of shock and not quite sure how to cover it yet. They are struggling to spin it but not even doing it wholeheartedly yet. I'm sure they are having editorial meetings to come up with a strategy though.

PropJoe10

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'd say Putin is baffled how easy this has been.

Absolutely, I'm sure that even he underestimated how stupid the Trump family is. Surely the clock is ticking on Trump's presidency. You'd have to wonder what the next revelation will be. It seems to be a slow dripping tap that will gradually get faster.