Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Really Interested

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Never mind if he lasts another 4 years. I don't think I'll last if this soap opera continues! It's fecking draining to watch!

This is the best show on earth at the moment.

Wanderer78

Really Interested wrote: »

This is the best show on earth at the moment.

id actually disagree there, we re watching one of the most disturbing administration in office, a world leader whos, well, is deeply unintelligent and beyond ignorant.

Water John

Sadly, it is.
If any one cannot see that Kushner is toast, I don't know what planet there on.

It's simple, they believed they were meeting a Russian State rep, who was going to give them incriminating info on their opposite number in the American Presedential Election.

It's a question of how near to treason, it gets. There is a whole list of lesser charges. Everyone of those charges is fatal to the three amigos.
These are federal prosecutions.

After which Donald Snr, is dead President walking.

Really Interested

Wanderer78 wrote: »

id actually disagree there, we re watching one of the most disturbing administration in office, a world leader whos, well, is deeply unintelligent and beyond ignorant.

Yes and hopefully the worlds latest experiment with populism will end with lots of bruised egos not bodies. Its also great fun to take the piss out of Americans no matter which side they on its like my second favourite sport taking the piss out of Brexit.

mayo.mick

On fox now, "Its Obama's fault & *Clinton corruption*..."

aloyisious

BillyBobBS wrote: »

So the president has broken eh no laws, none.

Next.

One snag with the Don Jnr email contact with the journalist about the meeting with the Russian lawyer is that if it turns out that he [or some-one else] mentioned it to Don Snr, and Don Jnr ends up facing charges in respect of breaking federal laws for making the contact, wouldn't that mean Don Snr [by failing to report that act] colluded in an act against federal law, then went on to break the oath of office he swore to "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." ? Keep in mind that it has taken well over a year for the story to break and it's been known about in the W/H & Don campaign all that time.

Wanderer78

Really Interested wrote: »

Yes and hopefully the worlds latest experiment with populism will end with lots of bruised egos not bodies. Its also great fun to take the piss out of Americans no matter which side they on its like my second favourite sport taking the piss out of Brexit.

you may need to do some research here, this administration and things such as brexit are not things to laugh at, lives and livelihoods are actually at stake including irish lives. great damage is being done here and may be irreversible

mcmoustache

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Never mind if he lasts another 4 years. I don't think I'll last if this soap opera continues! It's fecking draining to watch!

It's completely insane. We're all used to the usual corruption and lies of politicians. But this, this is off the charts. Trump, his allies and his supporters just can't stop lying. We've even seen it here with people parroting nonsense like FAKE NEWS and NOTHINGBURGER.

When you see all those lies, you can't help but wonder what's going on.

Then there's the massive stupidity. Really massive stupidity. If a smart businessman wanted help from the Russians in an effort to win an election, I've no doubt that they could pull it off. They'd just need to keep the media and the intelligence community onside while avoiding making unsubstantiated claims and behaving like a teenager on social media.

Remember why Mueller is there. Remember why the senate investigations are ongoing. These are only happening because Trump was too stupid to keep his mouth shut. These are all self-made problems and he'll keep creating more.

Professor Moriarty

There is a very serious aspect to the charade that is Trump's 'presidency'. Trump, his cronies, the GOP and the people who voted for him cast the USA in a very dysfunctional light. It says a lot about American politics and society that he could rise to power and stay in power despite being utterly unfit for office. The more he is defended by the GOP and supported by their/his base the more American society's ugly underbelly is exposed for all to see.

eagle eye

Wanderer78 wrote:

id actually disagree there, we re watching one of the most disturbing administration in office, a world leader whos, well, is deeply unintelligent and beyond ignorant.

Trump is very intelligent, you are clueless if you think otherwise.
I'm not a supporter of the man but I'm getting a great giggle out of how people are reacting to him being US President.

Wanderer78

eagle eye wrote: »

Trump is very intelligent, you are clueless if you think otherwise.
I'm not a supporter of the man but I'm getting a great giggle out of how people are reacting to him being US President.

again, we probably need to define intelligence? in my eyes, he is the opposite of it

Thepoet85

eagle eye wrote:

Trump is very intelligent, you are clueless if you think otherwise. I'm not a supporter of the man but I'm getting a great giggle out of how people are reacting to him being US President.

Very intelligent? I've yet to see any evidence of superior intellect from Donald.


Guess I'm clueless.

Oops69

Trump should tweet 'Hilary , its been eight months now , LET IT GO!'

Really Interested

Wanderer78 wrote: »

you may need to do some research here, this administration and things such as brexit are not things to laugh at, lives and livelihoods are actually at stake including irish lives. great damage is being done here and may be irreversible

I would rather these stupid ideas are shown for what they are. Since the failed experiment that was Brexit and Trump, support for the EU is at all time highs in Europe. Trump has "The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 45% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Fifty-five percent (55%) disapprove"

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_jul11

According to the right leaning Rasmussen Trump in late January had aproval of 60% now according to them its 45% been only going one way. According to Gallup its been hovering between 35 and 39% unheard of for a President in the first few moths. So I will quite happily take the fall of populism.

There are a lot of things in life that are **** thats life i prefer to take what good i can take out of any situation.

eagle eye

Wanderer78 wrote:

again, we probably need to define intelligence? in my eyes, he is the opposite of it

He was smart enough to get elected, to identify with idiots who haven't a clue.

He is destroying the US, and to some extent the world media by showing how they are trying to control things. Somebody mentioned the ugly underbelly, well we've got to see that side of the media over the last six months.

Wanderer78

Really Interested wrote: »

There are a lot of things in life that are **** thats life i prefer to take what good i can take out of any situation.

dont forget, trump et al are just the sideshow, do not take your eye off the republican party, they are not to be trusted. chomsky is right in saying, they are potentially one of the most dangerous organisations on the planet as we speak

Professor Moriarty

eagle eye wrote: »

He was smart enough to get elected, to identify with idiots who haven't a clue.

He is destroying the US, and to some extent the world media by showing how they are trying to control things. Somebody mentioned the ugly underbelly, well we've got to see that side of the media over the last six months.

Trump is just a useful idiot for Bannon, the GOP and big business. If he wasn't born into an extremely wealthy family he'd be a nobody. Anybody who believes Trump is the answer to Joe Soap's problems is a fool.

seamus

mayo.mick wrote: »

On fox now, "Its Obama's fault & *Clinton corruption*..."

What's hilarious are all the Trumpists now saying, "Yeah so what, now we need to find out what traitor leaked these emails to the press".

Apparently leaks to the press are only good when they help Trump. When they don't, they're treason.

I think what surprises me most are the amount of people who continue to support Trump because they hate Clinton. She's off the scene, moved on, but they still hate her because....reasons.
And apparently that's reason enough to back Donald.

eagle eye

Professor Moriarty wrote:

Trump is just a useful idiot for Bannon, the GOP and big business. If he wasn't born into an extremely wealthy family he'd be a nobody. Anybody who believes Trump is the answer to Joe Soap's problems is a fool.

Why are you quoting me? I never said Trump was the answer to anything. I'm just pointing out that he is a smart man.

He has gotten the media to show it's ugly side to the public. That is an impressive achievement.

ECO_Mental

Water John wrote: »

It's a question of how near to treason, it gets. There is a whole list of lesser charges. Everyone of those charges is fatal to the three amigos.
These are federal prosecutions.

After which Donald Snr, is dead President walking.

Unfortunately I think you can only be tried for treason if you in a state of war. That was mentioned on CNN tonight, that saying Trump has declared war on "Radical Islamic Terrorism" oh and poor people:)

mcmoustache

Really Interested wrote: »

Yes and hopefully the worlds latest experiment with populism will end with lots of bruised egos not bodies. Its also great fun to take the piss out of Americans no matter which side they on its like my second favourite sport taking the piss out of Brexit.

Maybe this is needed from time to time. Like having the odd epidemic to remind hippy liberals and conspiratorial right-wingers to vaccinate their kids.

listermint

eagle eye wrote: »

Why are you quoting me? I never said Trump was the answer to anything. I'm just pointing out that he is a smart man.

He has gotten the media to show it's ugly side to the public. That is an impressive achievement.

Which is what specifically

Professor Moriarty

eagle eye wrote: »

Why are you quoting me? I never said Trump was the answer to anything. I'm just pointing out that he is a smart man.

He has gotten the media to show it's ugly side to the public. That is an impressive achievement.

I'm disagreeing with you. Devious, aggressive and immoral? Yes. Smart? No.

Really Interested

Wanderer78 wrote: »

dont forget, trump et al are just the sideshow, do not take your eye off the republican party, they are not to be trusted. chomsky is right in saying, they are potentially one of the most dangerous organisations on the planet as we speak

Yes and if there is one thing we can hopefully take solace from is after recent UK election if they are pissed off enough the non voter of the past may become the voter who throws the gerrymander of the GOP out.

Really Interested

mcmoustache wrote: »

Maybe this is needed from time to time. Like having the odd epidemic to remind hippy liberals and conspiratorial right-wingers to vaccinate their kids.

I agree with you there.

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

He was smart enough to get elected, to identify with idiots who haven't a clue.

He is destroying the US, and to some extent the world media by showing how they are trying to control things. Somebody mentioned the ugly underbelly, well we've got to see that side of the media over the last six months.

Fox have been around for a lot longer than six months.

Water John

Not smart, only for the inheritance, he'd be a used car salesman.

mcmoustache

Really Interested wrote: »

I agree with you there.

We'll be able to look back and think "Remember when people were running around yelling FAKE NEWS and NOTHINGBURGER?". Or "remember that time that Alex Jones was taken seriously by a president"? Or how about "How did breitbart become state media for a while?". "Remember when the president tweeted like a hormonal teenager?".

We're living through history folks. Ní bheidh a leithid arís ann.

mcmoustache

Water John wrote: »

Not smart, only for the inheritance, he'd be a used car salesman.

He even squandered that. If he just invested in a pension fund he'd be a lot richer. This smart business myth is just that.

Professor Moriarty

mcmoustache wrote: »

He even squandered that. If he just invested in a pension fund he'd be a lot richer. This smart business myth is just that.

He was set up by Daddy with a big loan and bank guarantees. Was also subsequently bailed out by Daddy.

mcmoustache

Sarah Sanders sounds dejected and broken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjaAtLUqAqs

Her arrogant spark seems to have gone.

Billy86

Water John wrote: »

Not smart, only for the inheritance, he'd be a used car salesman.

But he is extremely at selling, to a point. One thing he is very, very good at is selling stuff. However having worked quite extensively in sales, he's also the type of salesman who will outright lie through their teeth (funny enough the used car salesman stereotype) just to get someone to sign, but were he in a standard sales job his cancellation rate would be through the roof. Worked with plenty of them, they tend to come in, blaze a trail, make everyone else look bad by comparison, and quite promptly get sacked. Trump has never really had a boss, but has been fortunate enough to have daddy's pockets to dip into (and the taxpayers before with his four bankruptcies if I recall). Basically, he is extremely good at selling stuff but not a good salesman.

He promised everything to everyone with no intention on delivering on almost any of it, and enough of America were dumb enough to buy it - it's the one thing he excels at. Lucky for him I guess, votes (including being to lazy to cast one) can't be refunded.

BabyCheeses

Whatever happened to CNN making the whole Russia thing up?

Billy86

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Whatever happened to CNN making the whole Russia thing up?

This is for you.

Water John

Well the CNN Fake News thread, went asleep today at lunchtime.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057757452

aloyisious

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/russian-lawyer-who-met-trump-jr-denies-she-had-compromising-information-797348.html

First few lines of Examiner report.......................................

Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 04:24 pm
Update 9.57pm: A Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr during the 2016 election campaign has said she had no compromising information on Hillary Clinton to offer - in contrast to what an email exchange released by the US president's eldest son suggests.

Asked if she had compromising information on the Democrat candidate, Natalia Veselnitskaya said that was "not true".

She added: "I never had compromising information and could not have had."

She insisted she "offered to meet with Trump Jr" in a "private setting not connected to the fact that he is the son of the presidential candidate".

Ms Veselnitskaya also claimed she is not sure Mr Trump had even won the Republican nomination to run for the White House at that time.

Water John

Really.

mcmoustache

Water John wrote: »

Really.

They lie. They all lie. They're always lying.

That actually works on stupid people. That's not a generalisation. It's a truism. Smart people go "Hang on a minute, that's not true.".

In an autocracy where you control the media, lying is a viable strategy. In a country with enshrined freedom of speech and a diverse media, it's a dumb move.

This is why shouting lugenpresse has only gone so far for this fool. Despite years of FOX, the number of stupid people in the US is just about too small to keep him afloat.

Billy86

"Why, I've never even heard of Donald Trump! What is it, do tell?"

mcmoustache

I wonder how Fox and friends will spin this.

Raheem Kassam, editor-in-chief of Breitbart London, reacted to the story of Donald Trump Jr.'s newly-released emails in a way that wouldn't typically be expected from someone at the far-right outfit, which is a reliable supporter of President Trump.

"So like, this is straight up collusion," he wrote in the news outlet's internal Slack, according to a transcript of the conversation obtained by CNN. "Right?"

The rest of the article's a bit dull though.

dfx-

mcmoustache wrote: »

They lie. They all lie. They're always lying.

That actually works on stupid people. That's not a generalisation. It's a truism. Smart people go "Hang on a minute, that's not true.".

In an autocracy where you control the media, lying is a viable strategy. In a country with enshrined freedom of speech and a diverse media, it's a dumb move.

This is why shouting lugenpresse has only gone so far for this fool. Despite years of FOX, the number of stupid people in the US is just about too small to keep him afloat.

He was openly lying about most of his policies in public on the campaign trail - irrespective of any Russia connections - and people bought it because he told them what they wanted to hear beit repeal and replace/Iran/ISIS/coal jobs/tax/infrastructure.

And he was being praised for it 'speaking for' especially Michigan and Wisconsin by mainstream media sources in the days after he won.

He hasn't had to tell the truth at any point and he'll survive as long as he doesn't.

Overheal

what if this attempted coalition/collusion with Russia or whatever, the snide attitude toward Mexico, China, etc. is part of a broader strategy to change geopolitics from Mid-East vs Rest to North vs South?

InTheTrees

Meanwhile The Donald hasn't been seen in public in three days.

This could be be really tearing the white house apart, trump is known for not trusting anyone but his close family but now it looks like kushner is the one who has thrown Donald junior under the bus and Donald junior is making things worse every day.

Leroy42

InTheTrees wrote: »

Meanwhile The Donald hasn't been seen in public in three days.

This could be be really tearing the white house apart, trump is known for not trusting anyone but his close family but now it looks like kushner is the one who has thrown Donald junior under the bus and Donald junior is making things worse every day.

And nothing on twitter. Previously has come out very aggressively. Now nothing. What happened to 'when he get hit he hits back 10 times harder'. I mean surely this is just the fake news going after his son. I very terse, single line statement is all that they have provided. Sarah Huckerby was terrible at the press briefing yesterday. Everything was just directed at the external lawyer, even when the journalists pointed out she had talked about it yesterday.

One question asked was whether Kushner still had security clearance, which of course she failed to answer. But it is a serious point. Why would you continue to give security clearance to a person who has now been caught out twice in a number of months?

Serious questions for Pence as well. He was clearly lied to by Flynn, and not backed up by Trump. Either he lied or he was lied to in this instance as well. For a man so in touch with his christian values it appears that truth is not one of them. How can he possibly stay supporting POTUS based on this (I am giving him the benefit of the doubt to say he didn't know).

Billy86

For anyone wondering how Trump Jr could be so utterly, utterly empty headed and brainless in terms of how he and the Trump campaign have handled being caught out looking to collude with Russia:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/russia-trump.html

Ultimately, the people said, the president signed off on a statement from Donald Trump Jr. for The Times that was so incomplete that it required day after day of follow-up statements, each more revealing than the last. It culminated on Tuesday with a release of emails making clear that Mr. Trump’s son believed the Russian lawyer was seeking to meet with him to provide incriminating information about Hillary Clinton as “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

It's an undeniable fact that Trump Jr, Kushner and Manafort went there looking to commit collusion and discussed both damaging information on an election rival (whether useful or not) as well adoptions/sanctions. It's becoming more and more clear that Trump Snr was very involved in/aware of the meeting and what was to take place too (see also: his announcing a 'damaging speech' about The Clintons exactly three hours after the meeting was confirmed). If I found that on Twitter I can only imagine how much more there is that highly skilled and qualified investigators and prosecutors under Mueller have on the matter.

red ears

The media seem to be really overdoing this whole collusion thing. I'm not sure many apart from hardcore anti trump types
and the media care much about it. I still hear people talking about Trump out in the real world but nobody mentions Russia. The same handful of posters in the thread seem to be getting very excited about it though..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/07/11/the-medias-mass-hysteria-over-collusion-is-out-of-control/?utm_term=.5531d99d50ee

'For many in the media and elsewhere, the collective grievances that they have against Trump personally, the White House as a whole and Trump’s policies somehow justify their zealous promotion of the “collusion scandal.” But not because the story is valid. Rather, the media know that they are not getting to Trump with anything else. Today, much of the “news coverage” of Trump and Co. is about payback'.

Water John

Goodness me. The three amigos, thought they were meeting a Russian Govn't agent, who was going to pass on info to help DT become President of America.!!!

It's that simple.

The reality was, she was a stalking horse. It was a, 'are you open for business' invitation.
Because they accepted, they were already compromised. The Russians had them, either way.

Christy42

red ears wrote: »

The media seem to be really overdoing this whole collusion thing. I'm not sure many apart from hardcore anti trump types
and the media care much about it. I still hear people talking about Trump out in the real world but nobody mentions Russia. The same handful of posters in the thread seem to be getting very excited about it though..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/07/11/the-medias-mass-hysteria-over-collusion-is-out-of-control/?utm_term=.5531d99d50ee

'For many in the media and elsewhere, the collective grievances that they have against Trump personally, the White House as a whole and Trump’s policies somehow justify their zealous promotion of the “collusion scandal.” But not because the story is valid. Rather, the media know that they are not getting to Trump with anything else. Today, much of the “news coverage” of Trump and Co. is about payback'.

I don't know. Months were spent calling this fake news and denying it. I mean it was certainly important enough for them to hide and make excuses for right up until the point they realised the e-mails would be released. It is something we have had Congress and senate hearings about as well investigations from multiple intellegence agencies. Yet your argument is that it isn't important?

If nothing else it validates a lot of what the media have been publishing and throws away all the fake news claims. Turns out they call things fake news even if it is real news. Shocker! At a minimum his supporters should learn that they should possibly take a wait and see approach before calling every negative story about this administration fake news given how badly wrong they got this one. Not that I expect they hat to happen.

Billy86

Christy42 wrote: »

I don't know. Months were spent calling this fake news and denying it. I mean it was certainly important enough for them to hide and make excuses for right up until the point they realised the e-mails would be released. It is something we have had Congress and senate hearings about as well investigations from multiple intellegence agencies. Yet your argument is that it isn't important?

If nothing else it validates a lot of what the media have been publishing and throws away all the fake news claims. Turns out they call things fake news even if it is real news. Shocker! At a minimum his supporters should learn that they should possibly take a wait and see approach before calling every negative story about this administration fake news given how badly wrong they got this one. Not that I expect they hat to happen.

It's standard from Trump fans, try to shape reality to fit their needs - "fake news" becomes "it's a witch hunt" becomes "where is the proof?" becomes "that's not proof, he never admitted it" becomes "nobody cares about the proof or that he admitted it!" and on and on. They actually think nobody cares about this, such is the bubble they put themselves in - before that bubble group-thinks it's latest irrational response is the "but Hillary!" window of confusion we see every so often.

Meanwhile, back in reality, there is a huge investigation going into it.

Give them a few weeks and they'll be back to asking for any proof and pretending this didn't happen and that an investigation of this magnitude does not take a long time to go through. I'd put the house on it, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. They've been asking for proof, and of all people Trump Jr just gave it to them. As someone put it yesterday:

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/884799323606847489

Leroy42

red ears wrote: »

The media seem to be really overdoing this whole collusion thing. I'm not sure many apart from hardcore anti trump types
and the media care much about it. I still hear people talking about Trump out in the real world but nobody mentions Russia. The same handful of posters in the thread seem to be getting very excited about it though..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/07/11/the-medias-mass-hysteria-over-collusion-is-out-of-control/?utm_term=.5531d99d50ee

'For many in the media and elsewhere, the collective grievances that they have against Trump personally, the White House as a whole and Trump’s policies somehow justify their zealous promotion of the “collusion scandal.” But not because the story is valid. Rather, the media know that they are not getting to Trump with anything else. Today, much of the “news coverage” of Trump and Co. is about payback'.

Do you not think that Trump Jr admission that he went to this meeting, along with Kushner and Manafort, on the pretext of securing high level official documents that would be damaging to HC is a sign of collusion?

What would you class it as? And what do you think, if he hasn't trying to collude, was he expecting to get out of the meeting?

Many people here and elsewhere have put forward why this admission brings a number of issues to Trump Jr and the Trump team. Even if you disregard to collusion for a second, Tjr has admitted discussing sanctions with a foreign agent. That is against the law (it is why Flynn had to go).

Second Kushner now needs to explain why he left out not one but at least two meetings with Russians from his security review form. Should a known liar still has security clearance at the highest level?

Third, given that so many of Team Trump stated on numerous occasions that no meetings were held with Russia agents or persons (Sessions, Trump, Trump Jr, KellyAnne Conway, Spicer, Pence) the question must be answered as to whether they knew and lied or Trump Jr lied to them. It is inconceivable that as all this Russian stuff swirled around Trump he never asked if anybody had had any meetings.

Fourth, where did Trump Jr think that any information that could be given would have come from? Did he not think it odd that a Russian had got access to these files?

How come Trump stated shortly after the meeting took place that he would give a speech the following Monday about HC e-mails? On what basis did he make that claim?

Why did Trump tweet shortly after the meeting that HC had 33,000 missing e-mails when he had never mentioned it previously.

Why are you placing any faith in anything that Trump or the WH have to say on this matter as they have proven, by their own admission, to have been, at best, completely outside the loop on this and as such any statements they make much be taken on the basis of being based on incomplete information.

What is Trumps stance on whether US citizens should be actively engaging with Foreign agents to obtain private information on US citizens? Does he think this is ok? It would think that the POTUS would need to clarify his standing on that issue?

We see posters on here, and elsewhere, with the claim that this is nothing without actually putting forth any refute of any of the above issues. Simply claiming it means nothing does not make it so.