Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

JRant

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Not at all. Meaningless comparison. They were of a completely different order. You couldn't possibly compare them.

I'm not sure I follow. These things either happened or they didn't. HRC used the Ukraine government for dirt and Donald jnr tried to use a russian lawyer.

It's already been stated that any Russian interference had no material effect on the election by Comey and others in the intelligence community. So where is this all heading?

InTheTrees

JRant wrote: »

A publicist sends an email out of nowhere to Donald jnr. Jnr thinks it might be useful to meet this person and find out what they're about. Nothing happens at this meeting, according to the 2 main persons involved (not some "source") and everyone is losing their shït talking about treason FFS.
]

Yikes. Trump Jr isn't law enforcement. And he isnt some kind of vigilante.

Wtf was he thinking " it might be useful to meet this person"? He was a moron and he should called the FBI because he and kushner are possibly committing treason.

That's why the american public are "losing their ****".

JRant

Water John wrote: »

I think for those on whataboutery, Mueller will make clear sense of it.

I have every faith in him doing exactly that. It doesn't mean we can't ask questions in the mean time.

What will you do if Mueller comes put and clears The Donald?

Would that finally put it to bed?

I seriously doubt it as it's gone past the point of no return.

Oh and before you ask the obvious, if he finds wrong doing then The Donald shoild be booted out of office and face the full weight of the law.

JRant

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yikes. Trump Jr isn't law enforcement. And he isnt some kind of vigilante.

Wtf was he thinking " it might be useful to meet this person"? He was a moron and he should called the FBI because he and kushner are possibly committing treason.

That's why the american public are "losing their ****".

Yeah he was a moron and probably should have notified the authorities but it still doesn't make it treason.

The same folks have been losing their shït since he got elected. This is nothing new.

InTheTrees

JRant wrote: »

It's already been stated that any Russian interference had no material effect on the election by Comey and others in the intelligence community.

Wait what? That's a pretty big claim there.

You say comey said "Any Russian interference had no material effect"?

You have a link for that?

InTheTrees

JRant wrote: »

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yikes. Trump Jr isn't law enforcement. And he isnt some kind of vigilante.

Wtf was he thinking " it might be useful to meet this person"? He was a moron and he should called the FBI because he and kushner are possibly committing treason.

That's why the american public are "losing their ****".

Yeah he was a moron and probably should have notified the authorities but it still doesn't make it treason.

Why not? Because he said so?

Because the suspects themselves initially claimed it was all totally innocent?

Water John

Treason is at the end of a line of illegality that may be attached to this meeting.

The three amigos should have seen what's coming. Not bright, or involved in so many shady deals over the years that they cannot differentiate, any more.

LeinsterDub

JRant wrote: »

I. Basically it was already in the public domain and amounted to the square root of fook all.

We don't know what they got but that's not the point. The point is what they thought they were going to get and from whom.

Water John

The email, says it all. Exhibit A.

JRant

InTheTrees wrote: »

Wait what? That's a pretty big claim there.

You say comey said "Any Russian interference had no material effect"?

You have a link for that?

I remember reading about it a while back.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/politics/russia-hack-report.html

TLDR: Russians were playing silly beggars from as early as 2015, long before Trump was on the scene. Hacked both the GOP and DNC. Didn't hack voting machines. Stopped just short of stating it had no material effect as they couldn't make political findings.

So I may have been a little misplaced stating it as a fact.

PopePalpatine

Water John wrote: »

I think for those on whataboutery, Mueller will make clear sense of it.

Nope, last time he was the centre of attention, the Church of Trump were squealing like frogs about his alleged conflicts of interest.

Billy86

JRant wrote: »

If this was a Putin operation then why was this lawyer given special dispensation from AG Lynch and the Obama administration to overstay her visa?

None of this makes a lick of sense IMO. A publicist sends an email out of nowhere to Donald jnr. Jnr thinks it might be useful to meet this person and find out what they're about. Nothing happens at this meeting, according to the 2 main persons involved (not some "source") and everyone is losing their shït talking about treason FFS.

Here's a fairly balanced article on it, seems to lay out the players involved and the content of any information that she could have been trying to peddle. Basically it was already in the public domain and amounted to the square root of fook all.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-12/russian-at-trump-tower-is-said-to-have-gathered-details-on-ziffs

It makes perfect sense. A publicist for the son of one of Russia's most influential oligarchs (who has extremely close ties to Putin and the Kremlin) reaches out on behalf of that oligarch to Trump indirectly via his son (he explicitly says why in the emails Trump tweeted), offering damaging info on Trump's rival candidate due to Russia's support for Trump's candidacy (his exact words) - this is not in any dispute, so not sure why you consider it unbelievable. Trump Jr literally tweeted these himself. The Trump campaign is looking to receive damaging information.

An ex KGB spy along with the most prominent and aggressive Russian lawyer against sanctions are there and the KGB spy has confirmed they talked about damaging information towards Clinton (which Trump Jr also confirmed they were looking for, and which the emails also show clearly). They then talk about sanctions, as Trump Jr mentioned immediately from the outset as adoption programs cannot be talked about without sanctions.

Trump gets damaging info on election candidate, Russia gets to talk about what happens with sanctions if Trump wins. Trump wins, and has been trying to get sanctions lifted/eased on Russia since literally days after taking office.

It means zero how priceless or useless the info was, Sideshow Bob put it best by protesting why he is in prison for "attempted" murder because they don't give out Nobel prizes for "attempted" chemistry - this is the level of respect the "no good info = nothing to see here" argument deserves. And that still doesn't take away from talking about sanctions, for which Michael Flynn had to resign. Even before the emails and all this other info was released, that alone was enough. Everything else is just more added on top of the already undeniable - laws were broken by the Trump campaign, both in terms of the Logan Act and colluding with Russia.

Here are that publicist and Trump himself having a conversation over dinner along with that oligarch and his son, a music video of whose Trump also showed up in - he's not random at all.

Billy86

JRant wrote: »

Ah Billy, I think we can agree that what happened is wrong but treason? Really?

It's no more treason than what HRC's campaign were at with the Ukrainian government. It's underhanded unethical dirt digging, of which both sides are equally shameless at.

Betraying your own country and government is treason, so yes I would call it treasonous to as private citizens discuss undermining sanctions put in place by the government, and how to go about doing to in conjunction with a foreign power. I don't see Junior being done for treason though because he's not the target.

InTheTrees

Billy86 wrote: »

It means zero how priceless or useless , Sideshow Bob put it best by protesting why he is in prison for "attempted" murder because they don't give out Nobel prizes for "attempted" chemistry - this is the level of respect the "no good info = nothing to see here" argument deserves.

It is baffling that some think you can conspire to break the law as much as you like but its not a crime as long as you dont succeed.

JRant

Billy86 wrote: »

It makes perfect sense. A publicist for the son of one of Russia's most influential oligarchs (who has extremely close ties to Putin and the Kremlin) reaches out on behalf of that oligarch to Trump indirectly via his son (he explicitly says why in the emails Trump tweeted), offering damaging info on Trump's rival candidate due to Russia's support for Trump's candidacy (his exact words) - this is not in any dispute, so not sure why you consider it unbelievable. Trump Jr literally tweeted these himself. The Trump campaign is looking to receive damaging information.

An ex KGB spy along with the most Russian lawyer against sanctions are there and the KGB spy has confirmed they talked about damaging information towards Clinton (which Trump Jr also confirmed they were looking for, and which the emails also show clearly). They then talk about sanctions, as Trump Jr mentioned immediately from the outset as adoption programs cannot be talked about without sanctions.

Trump gets damaging info on election candidate, Russia gets to talk about what happens with sanctions if Trump wins. Trump wins, and has been trying to get sanctions lifted/eased on Russia since literally days after taking office.

It means zero how priceless or useless , Sideshow Bob put it best by protesting why he is in prison for "attempted" murder because they don't give out Nobel prizes for "attempted" chemistry - this is the level of respect the "no good info = nothing to see here" argument deserves. And that still doesn't take away from talking about sanctions, for which Michael Flynn had to resign. Even before the emails and all this other info was released, that alone was enough. Everything else is just more added on top of the already undeniable - laws were broken by the Trump campaign, both in terms of the Logan Act and colluding with Russia.

Here are that publicist and Trump himself having a conversation over dinner along with that oligarch and his son, a music video of whose Trump also showed up in - he's not random at all.

Good stuff Billy, you make an excellent argument for collusion, not sure the Logan act stuff is really applicable but I'm no lawyer.

I can get behind this line of thinking. The treason malarkey merely muddies the waters.

InTheTrees

Billy86 wrote: »

Betraying your own country and government is treason, so yes I would call it treasonous to as private citizens discuss undermining sanctions put in place by the government, and how to go about doing to in conjunction with a foreign power. I don't see Junior being done for treason though because he's not the target.

Charles Krautammer on Fox:

“It’s a hell of a defense to say your collusion might be incompetent,” he told Fox News’ Martha MacCallum on Tuesday. “If you get a call to go to a certain place in the middle of the night to pick up stolen goods and it turns out the stolen goods don’t show up but the cops show up, I think you’re going to have a very weak story saying, ‘Well, I got swindled here.’”

Billy86

JRant wrote: »

Good stuff Billy, you make an excellent argument for collusion, not sure the Logan act stuff is really applicable but I'm no lawyer.

I can get behind this line of thinking. The treason malarkey merely muddies the waters.

Just a quick update on why it is impossible to talk about US/Russian adoptions without discussing sanctions (and one that has been a bit under-reported in my opinion, should be as relevant as the damaging Clinton info side as they go hand in hand) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act#Russian_government_reaction

Also a quick bit of info on the Russian lawyer's involvement with the Magnitsky Act for further context - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalia_Veselnitskaya#Advocacy_against_the_Magnitsky_Act

Also the wording of the Logan Act: Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Michael Flynn for example had to resign after two weeks as National Security Advisor and is under investigation due to contacting Sergiy Kislyak on the day Obama brought in additional sanctions - and that was 22 days before he was set to take office in a position that was already set in stone long after the election (Dec 29, 2016), so this is a pretty black and white law.




I guess I can see why some would consider it unbelievable, had they missed 1-2 developments in this story as it has unraveled day by day, bit by bit for a week now in order to catch Junior out in his lies (hence why Manafort and Kushner have not said a single word on it). The media's response why Junior released the email chain was somewhat similar... it surely can't be this bluntly stupid and obvious, but yet it is (and Junior seems to be there to confirm as much, intentionally or otherwise, at every other turn). I've heard the line multiple times now, but in truth if this were a movie, even a slapstick parody, the scenes depicting the last week would have caused people to groan and walk out for being too unbelievable and stupid.

aloyisious

Water John wrote: »

Wonder did the 2 Russians think they were only going to meet Don Jnr? They may have ducked when they saw the number on the other side.
That might explain the 20 min meeting, if that is what it was.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjY_OzJ9YnVAhVmIcAKHU3xB8kQqOcBCCgwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2017%2F07%2F14%2Fpolitics%2Fdonald-trump-jr-meeting%2Findex.html&usg=AFQjCNHsK1o6fhn8i9J_XDBJ-2mZ-PtXBA

Para 3 of above report..... So far acknowledged in attendance: Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, Akhmetshin and publicist Rob Goldstone, who helped set up the meeting. A source familiar with the circumstances told CNN there were at least two other people in the room as well, a translator and a representative of the Russian family who had asked Goldstone to set up the meeting. The source did not provide the names.

It look like the ratio may have been 5 for the Russians and 3 for the Trump unless they hired the interpreter.

Paras 5 and 6 indicate GOP members were aware of Natalia's presence and actions in the US this year [2017] in trying to get the sanctions imposed by Obama against Russia cancelled. Sen Grassley asked the Dept of Homeland Security this year [2017] for info on Natalia as she was acting as an unregistered agent for Russian interests and apparently had ties to Russian intelligence.

LeinsterDub

https://youtu.be/nI3FsRjp-V4


Kushner has revised his security clearance form 3 times to add 100 more foreign contacts. That's simply outrageous

dfx-

Water John wrote: »

The email, says it all. Exhibit A.

Its not so much the email, but how it was released cast a web that they walked right into. And therefore the reliability of anything Trump Jr now says.

As someone said on the thread earlier this week, it's interesting now that you cannot now believe a single word of Trump Jr because of how this has been released, whatever it contains. You can extend that to the pro-Trump commentators who were stung by the drip drip nature of the story (Jason Miller on CNN and Gorka on Monday playing along with the narrative of not knowing who they were meeting before the emails were tweeted).

By now, the pro-Trump people have regrouped and come out firing again, got their ducks in a row and are bringing back the idea of a Democratic 'plant' and Obama should've deported the lawyer so it's his fault etc.

It is extremely interesting how the NYT have released the story in parts, adapting to how this administration reacts and proving that defence wrong by releasing more of it. The story is still being uncovered a week later.

Itssoeasy

JRant wrote: »

I'm not sure I follow. These things either happened or they didn't. HRC used the Ukraine government for dirt and Donald jnr tried to use a russian lawyer.

It's already been stated that any Russian interference had no material effect on the election by Comey and others in the intelligence community. So where is this all heading?

Jesus help us Hillary didn't win the election so why do you people keep mentioning her ?

It's heading to Donald trump Jr and Jared kushner having to answer questions under oath in front of the congress. If they are found to have not done that then that's perjury.

aloyisious

The LA Times ran this story a few hours ago on how Natalia got into the US and why...... there's a sting in the tail [which has been mentioned twice before in this thread] of the report.

FoxNews has also, in its reporting, confirmed the majority of the LA times story, but has kept up the "Obama was in power at the time she entered the US" angle.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwih8bWQjYrVAhWGLsAKHcbpArkQFggvMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fpolitics%2Fwashington%2Fla-na-trump-russia-1499974350-htmlstory.html&usg=AFQjCNE8mUsDsvq8AWA8jdhg8zzKNB5BMw

Googling this question: [when the Dept of Homeland Security were told about Natalia Veselnitskaya presence in the US, what did it do?] produced the LA Times link above along with two Foxnews links and one CBS link with info on her entry and court appearance as a defence lawyer on behalf of a client there.

Atlantic Dawn

Build a glass wall, can people not see he's a windup merchant having a laugh almost daily with the media, he has outsmarted them all. The fake news don't understand having the craic and that...

"And I'll give you an example. As horrible as it sounds, when they throw large sacks of drugs over, and if you have people on the other side of the wall, you don't see them.

"They hit you on the head with 60 pounds of stuff? It's over.

"As crazy as that sounds, you need transparency through that wall. But we have some incredible designs."

The comments were made on Thursday to reporters, while Mr Trump was travelling on Air Force One to a state visit in France.

http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-proposes-glass-border-wall-with-mexico-10949128

ECO_Mental

aloyisious wrote: »

The LA Times ran this story a few hours ago on how Natalia got into the US and why...... there's a sting in the tail [which has been mentioned twice before in this thread] of the report.

FoxNews has also, in its reporting, confirmed the majority of the LA times story, but has kept up the "Obama was in power at the time she entered the US" angle.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwih8bWQjYrVAhWGLsAKHcbpArkQFggvMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fpolitics%2Fwashington%2Fla-na-trump-russia-1499974350-htmlstory.html&usg=AFQjCNE8mUsDsvq8AWA8jdhg8zzKNB5BMw

Googling this question: [when the Dept of Homeland Security were told about Natalia Veselnitskaya presence in the US, what did it do?] produced the LA Times link above along with two Foxnews links and one CBS link with info on her entry and court appearance as a defence lawyer on behalf of a client there.

OMG...... Obama is the Manchurian candidate....how could we have not seen this......

Water John

DFX, I agree, the NYT sheltered it from getting blown away by the usual whataboutery. They multiplied its effect.

Ipse dixit

The New York Times have done more to aid Trump through their innuendo than damage him. While this vacuum of truth exists with the strong innuendo and allegations against Trump some of the major media outlets are only aiding him by continually making allegations against him with no proof whatsoever to back it up.

Some people seem to think unknown sources and well polished allegations are enough of a truth but a lot of people have jumped on the bang wagon of the Russian allegations without a shred of evidence to do so. It seems as if the Democrats and their supporters are having an incredibably hard time accepting the election result and will say and do anything to try and bring down this administration.

Trump may be undeserving to lead the biggest Democracy in the world but the fact that he's managed to get himself to that point should have been a massive wake up call for Washington but nothing will change as we will just blame the Russians for this mess.

US politics is grinding to a halt until this investigation is over. How any US citizen can muster the ignorance to vote for either of these partisan parties is beyond me. US politics is on its knees and Trump and the Democrats are on course to bring the US to its knees.

China must be delighted.

Wanderer78

Ipse dixit wrote:

Trump may be undeserving to lead the biggest Democracy in the world but the fact that he's managed to get himself to that point should have been a massive wake up call for Washington but nothing will change as we will just blame the Russians for this mess.

Democracy! I think not!

Water John

The NYT is now, to blame???
No evidence. It's in the email, it's written down for all to read.
More whataboutery.

LeinsterDub

aloyisious wrote: »

FoxNews has also, in its reporting, confirmed the majority of the LA times story, but has kept up the "Obama was in power at the time she entered the US" angle.

I didn't realise we had carte blanche to ignore morals and possibly break the law during the Obama presidency and Hillary Campaign. I would of broken so many laws, all the laws, bigly ignored morals, I've got the best morals

aloyisious

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I didn't realise we had carte blanche to ignore morals and possibly break the law during the Obama presidency and Hillary Campaign. I would of broken so many laws, all the laws, bigly ignored morals, I've got the best morals

I was referring to the blame being put on Barak Obama, the former president, for the presence of the Russian Lawyer in the US by FoxNews when she met with Don Trump Jnr, similarly to the way the blame was put on Loretta Lynch, the former AG, for the same presence by Don Trump Snr while he was speaking to the media on Air Force 1.

Edit: Maybe I misread your's, that I should have seen it was done Don-speak style.

LeinsterDub

aloyisious wrote: »

Edit: Maybe I misread your's, that I should have seen it was done Don-speak style.

Indeed I was referring to Fox's redicilous attempt to blame Obama /Hillary

aloyisious

I keep going back to the firing of Preet Bharara US Federal Attorney for the Sth NYC district by Jeff Sessions, after Preet had declined to take a phonecall from Don, who apparently wanted to wish him well in the future. Don, as president, has the right to fire US Federal attorneys. Preet also refused to resign at Jeff's request. What make this different was that Preet had just been asked two days earlier, on Wednesday, by three watchdog groups to take steps to prevent the Trump Organization from receiving benefits from foreign governments that might enrich Trump, who has not given up ownership of the business.

Bharara said on Saturday he had been fired after he defied a request to resign. The move was a surprise because Bharara had told reporters in November that Trump had asked him to remain in the job. As the chief federal prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, which includes Manhattan, Bharara oversaw several notable corruption and white-collar criminal cases, as well as prosecutions of terrorism suspects. He was also investigating a case against Fox News in reference to sexual assault allegations.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivhIX514vVAhXLDMAKHTabCBMQFgghMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2017%2F03%2F11%2Fnew-yorks-prosecutor-considering-refusing-order-resign-force%2F&usg=AFQjCNG_6hsc9JQ_rN-cxqqQNTnrqx0tDg

Bharara was also prosecuting the Russian Katsyv family money-laundering case that Natalia Veselnitskaya was defending, and showing a interest in her presence in the case and presence in the US.... https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiEgIu73IvVAhVhDsAKHWG_CnkQFgglMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F07%2F11%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fnatalia-veselnitskaya-donald-trump-jr-russian-lawyer.html&usg=AFQjCNFXs0ahgH7IOueoJYtyR7VEMb2RcQ

Now it seems to me that if Preet was actually going after Natalia on legal grounds, it may have be embarrassing to the Trump family [at the time] for such a case to arise seeing as he had just been asked to look at the Trump family finances. If one was to fire a federal attorney because of such a case, would a prima facie case of interference with ongoing criminal trials and investigations by a sitting president and his Attorney General exist? The firing of Preet Bharara is well known about in US legal and media circles. The June 2016 meeting and Emails were [presumably] not in the picture back then this year - March 2017.

Edit: it might read as a conspiratorial tale but there have been a lot of coincidences so far in this Trump Family tale.

mcmoustache

Wow. That's some amount of nonsense in one post.

Ipse dixit wrote: »

The New York Times have done more to aid Trump through their innuendo than damage him. While this vacuum of truth exists with the strong innuendo and allegations against Trump some of the major media outlets are only aiding him by continually making allegations against him with no proof whatsoever to back it up.

Have you been off the internet for the past few weeks? In case you missed it, Don Trump Junior tweeted the chain of emails which demonstrated, in black and white that Russians were offering dirt on Clinton and that Trump junior was delighted to receive it and agreed to meet with them.

It's worth noting that before the tweet, he lied multiple times about what the meeting was about. It's also worth nothing that this isn't the first piece of direct evidence to come out and it won't be the last. You're idea that this is all based on innuendo is nonsense.

Ipse dixit wrote: »

Some people seem to think unknown sources and well polished allegations are enough of a truth but a lot of people have jumped on the bang wagon of the Russian allegations without a shred of evidence to do so. It seems as if the Democrats and their supporters are having an incredibably hard time accepting the election result and will say and do anything to try and bring down this administration.

If all there were were unknown sources, you might have a point. But there's loads of evidence from the Trumps themselves, loads of documentary evidence, loads of proven lies from the administration and the general behaviour of the President himself.

Also, if you think it's just pissed off Dems who have a problem with this administration, you're very misinformed by your media choices. There are plenty of republicans who've jumped off the Trump train and realise that this "Rusher thing" is in fact a thing. The idea that this is all based on anonymous sources and the "Democratic hoax because they're butthurt" narrative is nonsense.

Ipse dixit wrote: »

Trump may be undeserving to lead the biggest Democracy in the world but the fact that he's managed to get himself to that point should have been a massive wake up call for Washington but nothing will change as we will just blame the Russians for this mess.

It's true that there are other problems in the US other than Russians which led to Trump. It's possible that Trump won without any Russian help but if he did get Russian help, then this needs to be investigated. The idea of other countries being able to swing a US election is a horrible prospect for most Americans. Whatever problems America has, they can deal with lots of them at the same time. Ignoring potential Russian interference would be stupid.

Ipse dixit wrote: »

US politics is grinding to a halt until this investigation is over. How any US citizen can muster the ignorance to vote for either of these partisan parties is beyond me. US politics is on its knees and Trump and the Democrats are on course to bring the US to its knees.

Republicans control the presidency, the house and the senate. His presidency should have been easy. The reason that Trump can't get much done is that he's shít at his job. Politics and lawmaking are complicated and he's just not up to the task.

Ipse dixit wrote: »

China must be delighted.

Maybe.

mcmoustache

aloyisious wrote: »

Edit: it might read as a conspiratorial tale but there have been a lot of coincidences so far in this Trump Family tale.

Little would surprise me about these people. They're dishonest and incompetent - not a good mix.

Also, Drudge now reporting on this nothingburger.

aloyisious

Ipse dixit wrote: »

Some people seem to think unknown sources and well polished allegations are enough of a truth but a lot of people have jumped on the bang wagon of the Russian allegations without a shred of evidence to do so. It seems as if the Democrats and their supporters are having an incredibably hard time accepting the election result and will say and do anything to try and bring down this administration.

Trump may be undeserving to lead the biggest Democracy in the world but the fact that he's managed to get himself to that point should have been a massive wake up call for Washington but nothing will change as we will just blame the Russians for this mess.

Re para 1: There have been [unknown] leaks from within the Trump/GOP White House to the media confirming the authenticity and veracity of Don Jnr's emails to Goldstone about the requested meeting so the bandwagon riders aren't all Dems, but also from his Daddy's "loyal" band.

Re para 2: The wake-up call seem's to have been received by members of the Trump/GOP non-democrat allied band on varying fronts, possibly due to Don Snr popping off at them on the ACA replacement which he wants passed into law: "you're not doing enough to get it passed" AND "your plan is mean" amongst other tweets. It must be terribly confusing for them to understand where he stands on anything.

DaniilKharms

From Bill Moyers:

"There's been quite a lot of talk about whether colluding with the Russians would be a crime if it were proven. This piece by Randall Eliason, a former Assistant US Attorney who now teaches law at George Washington University, may be a few days old but is the most comprehensive look at the potential legal ramifications of the story that we've seen. The short version: campaign finance violations, which have dominated much of the discussion, are the very least of it."

And here's a link to the article in question:

https://sidebarsblog.com/collusion-russians-influence-election-crime/

mayo.mick

https://twitter.com/lachlan/status/886286641215795200

ECO_Mental

mayo.mick wrote: »

https://twitter.com/lachlan/status/886286641215795200

The trumps are worth billions (apparently!) And they are using money that more than likely came from some old poor coal miner to pay their own legal bills for illleagl **** they were doing.......

Disgusting shameless people

aloyisious

DaniilKharms wrote: »

From Bill Moyers:

"There's been quite a lot of talk about whether colluding with the Russians would be a crime if it were proven. This piece by Randall Eliason, a former Assistant US Attorney who now teaches law at George Washington University, may be a few days old but is the most comprehensive look at the potential legal ramifications of the story that we've seen. The short version: campaign finance violations, which have dominated much of the discussion, are the very least of it."

And here's a link to the article in question:

https://sidebarsblog.com/collusion-russians-influence-election-crime/

To me collusion is the result of a meeting of minds with intent to plan for a joint beneficial end. Ask the average US Citizen if he thought that the group who met in Trump Tower in June did so solely for the benefit of the US and personal gain was not part or intent of their thought or plan, then add foreign nationals as willing partners in the deal.

Throw in the self-admitted fact that the President's son was one of the group along with other members of the Trump family and friends with the intent to gain information to ensure the winning of the ultimate of federal offices, the presidency, an "aw shucks. it was all above board" is probably not the reply you'd get. Personal gain extends to influence as well as money.

Just think back along the lines of the advice give to Don Snr about Gen Flynn being a security risk as he might [just might, mind you] have become compromised and liable to blackmail by Russian int cos of his financial deals and then consider the presence of Natalia and the other Russian Govt-linked person at the meeting on Trump property on US soil, freely entered into by Don Jnr. Would the average right-thinking [pun] yank think there is a chance that Don Jnr put himself at risk by meeting the two Russians and their companions in a secret [as it was, prior to the NYT story] meeting?

BTW. I reckon the collegiate input is above board, legal and legitimate.

LeinsterDub

ECO_Mental wrote: »

The trumps are worth billions (apparently!) And they are using money that more than likely came from some old poor coal miner to pay their own legal bills for illleagl **** they were doing.......

Disgusting shameless people

If only the average Whitehouse staffer on a civil service wage was so lucky. They've to pay for their own

Water John

Read you link Daniil. Thought this part was very interesting;

A related charge, Misprision of a Felony, 18 U.S.C. § 4, punishes anyone who has actual knowledge of a felony that has been committed against the U.S. and “does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority.” Again, if Trump campaign officials got involved with Russian hackers after the hacking was completed and cooperated with them rather than reporting the hacking, misprision would be a potential charge.

The key question; Who knew and when?

aloyisious

Wishing Sen John McCain much good luck and health in the future. As luck would have it, the Senate vote to decide on the future of the ACA was postponed by Mitch McConnell because John is recovering after surgery on Friday to remove a blood clot over his right eye. Mitch knows that John is pro the removal of the ACA and without his vote, the GOP don't have the numbers to vote the ACA out of existence. This will give the GOP extra time to get a deal done with its Senators opposing the vote, and maybe it'll serve as a timely reminder to the Senators of how important healthcare is to people, elderly and otherwise....

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLqd__wo3VAhXoJ8AKHU1VB_EQqUMIMDAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F07%2F15%2Fus%2Fmccains-surgery-will-delay-senate-votes-on-health-care-bill.html&usg=AFQjCNF9v_afzsX5ezVfEddYDvAInO8qPw

DaniilKharms

aloyisious wrote: »

Wishing Sen John McCain much good luck and health in the future. As luck would have it, the Senate vote to decide on the future of the ACA was postponed by Mitch McConnell because John is recovering after surgery on Friday to remove a blood clot over his right eye. Mitch knows that John is pro the removal of the ACA and without his vote, the GOP don't have the numbers to vote the ACA out of existence. This will give the GOP extra time to get a deal done with its Senators opposing the vote, and maybe it'll serve as a timely reminder to the Senators of how important healthcare is to people, elderly and otherwise....

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiLqd__wo3VAhXoJ8AKHU1VB_EQqUMIMDAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2017%2F07%2F15%2Fus%2Fmccains-surgery-will-delay-senate-votes-on-health-care-bill.html&usg=AFQjCNF9v_afzsX5ezVfEddYDvAInO8qPw

Republicans use state payoffs to win votes for repeal bill

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/14/republicans-state-payoffs-obamacare-240578

I'm thinking hypocrisy will survive unscathed.

Water John

If they do pass a health bill, the GOP will regret it, given the 17% approval of it.

mayo.mick

Must have an extremely short memory or maybe memory lapses

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/886544734788997125

Stheno

Apparently trump recently told Theresa may to fix his bad press coverage in the UK before he visits

Professor Moriarty

mayo.mick wrote: »

Must have an extremely short memory or maybe memory lapses

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/886544734788997125

With all of its phony unnamed sources & highly slanted & even fraudulent reporting, #Fake News is DISTORTING DEMOCRACY in our country!

Says the man whose son colluded with a foreign power to interfere in a presidential election.

InTheTrees

Water John wrote: »

If they do pass a health bill, the GOP will regret it, given the 17% approval of it.

Its going to effect all american residents but its going to hit the old the hardest.

Stripping medicaid is massive. 60% of nursing home residents depend on it. Whats going to happen to them? just to be clear to irish posters, there are NO other safety nets, when medicaid goes away those people will presumably be out on the street. Will they just pack these peoples suitcases and push them out the door?

And you dont remove 60% of nursing home residents and have those facilities stay in business.

Part of me thinks in an anarchistic way let them do it. Its going to finish the republican party.

Billy86

Stheno wrote: »

Apparently trump recently told Theresa may to fix his bad press coverage in the UK before he visits

With how savvy she has proven with the media, that's a guaranteed success then!

DaniilKharms

Stheno wrote: »

Apparently trump recently told Theresa may to fix his bad press coverage in the UK before he visits

And she apparently told him that the UK isn't North Korea. Which is pretty LOLtastic.