Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Really Interested

Water John wrote: »

Sessions seems to be digging in and refusing to take the hint. Doubt if Trump will sack him.
Unless there is fresh info.

Is it just me or is this as if someone wrote a script for a movie based on Watergate but the modern version?

Quin_Dub

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Looks like Sessions is toast. I wonder how much say Trump will give the GOP on who his replacement should be? Not a lot is my guess.

If Sessions is fired or resigned (is there a procedural difference?) does the next guy have to go through Senate hearings and is it a simple majority vote or does it need the 60 votes?

I read an article over the week-end that said that the legislation that was introduced post Nixon to prevent a President from doing another "Saturday night Massacre" expired a couple of years ago so Trump in theory could just keep working his way down the line until he finds someone to pull the trigger on Mueller.

Professor Moriarty

Rjd2 wrote: »

Very odd from Trump if so. He was a competent politician and very much on the Trump bandwagon since day one, such a loss will infuriate the base as he was the biggest immigration hawk that Trump has.

Trump blames Sessions's decision to recuse himself for Mueller being appointed.

Water John

Yes, Trump wants to open up, a clear line, by which to fire Mueller, when the need arises.

Professor Moriarty

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If Sessions is fired or resigned (is there a procedural difference?) does the next guy have to go through Senate hearings and is it a simple majority vote or does it need the 60 votes?

I read an article over the week-end that said that the legislation that was introduced post Nixon to prevent a President from doing another "Saturday night Massacre" expired a couple of years ago so Trump in theory could just keep working his way down the line until he finds someone to pull the trigger on Mueller.

Next up is rumoured to be Giulliani though he denies that he's in line. Interestingly, he said that Sessions was right to recuse himself - The Donald won't like that. AFAIK, the AG is appointed by POTUS and confirmed by the Senate.

Apparently he can do just that - keep firing people until he finds someone who will fire Mueller.

spacecoyote

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If Sessions is fired or resigned (is there a procedural difference?) does the next guy have to go through Senate hearings and is it a simple majority vote or does it need the 60 votes?

I read an article over the week-end that said that the legislation that was introduced post Nixon to prevent a President from doing another "Saturday night Massacre" expired a couple of years ago so Trump in theory could just keep working his way down the line until he finds someone to pull the trigger on Mueller.

Was listening to one of the US news channels today saying that, if he fires him while the the Senate is in recess then he can hire who he wants without it requiring a vote.

Which puts the ball in McConnells court. He cancelled the recess previously to prevent obama from doing that exact thing.

I imagine McConnell wont be delaying recess if the big boss wanta to push his agenda through

StringerBell

Two things really, if Trump fires him he can't control him at all anymore. He will have a pissed off Sessions with nothing to stop him running his mouth. If Sessions resigns they can come to an agreement and Sessions could be persuaded to sign a NDA.

The clear reasoning for getting rid of his own man,to replace him with another of his own men,just one who hasn't had to recuse himself, is so he can fire Mueller if needs be easier.

swampgas

Trump is shooting the messenger. I imagine he usually fires anyone who works for him who deosn't tell him what he wants to hear, or who doesn't "make the problem go away" by whatever means necessary. Sessions knows what he can get away with, and crucially also knows what simply won't fly - but that's not what Trump wants to hear. I'm no fan of Sessions, but he's not someone I'd like to cross. He must know quite a bit about Trump's campaign, and backed into a corner he must be capable of at least some level of retaliation.

Trump is getting very very nervous now that the investigations are starting to close in on his financial affairs. He is getting desperate,and unless Congress and/or Senate finally stand up to him, I wouldn't put anything past him. It does reflect just how desperate he is though that he's prepared to throw Sessions under a bus. Things are getting interesting - end game approaching maybe?

Quin_Dub

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was listening to one of the US news channels today saying that, if he fires him while the the Senate is in recess then he can hire who he wants without it requiring a vote.

Which puts the ball in McConnells court. He cancelled the recess previously to prevent obama from doing that exact thing.

I imagine McConnell wont be delaying recess if the big boss wanta to push his agenda through

I guess if Trump does try to replace Sessions during the recess and McConnell lets him then that will tell us all we need to know....

Rjd2

Water John wrote: »

Yes, Trump wants to open up, a clear line, by which to fire Mueller, when the need arises.

Yeah that will be the main role of the person who has to replace Sessions, who the **** would want that hassle?:p

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/889873960304881668

Interesting that, Breitbart not keen on Sessions going, something like that would have to be ran past Bannon or one of his team.

I don't care whatsoever about Sessions, but Trump really is playing with fire here.

Really Interested

spacecoyote wrote: »

Was listening to one of the US news channels today saying that, if he fires him while the the Senate is in recess then he can hire who he wants without it requiring a vote.

Which puts the ball in McConnells court. He cancelled the recess previously to prevent obama from doing that exact thing.

I imagine McConnell wont be delaying recess if the big boss wanta to push his agenda through

Yup a recess appointment but the person must be confirmed by the Senate by the end of the next session of Congress.

InTheTrees

I believe the special election to fill sessions empty senate seat isn't even scheduled until November.
I wonder what happens if sessions resigns as AG?

Rjd2

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yeah that will be the main role of the person who has to replace Sessions, who the **** would want that hassle?:p

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/889873960304881668

Interesting that, Breitbart not keen on Sessions going, something like that would have to be ran past Bannon or one of his team.

I don't care whatsoever about Sessions, but Trump really is playing with fire here.

just to add...
https://twitter.com/brithume/status/889815245824372736

http://www.thedailybeast.com/jeff-sessions-is-growing-pissed-at-trump-his-allies-say-and-he-doesnt-plan-to-quit

As the breitbart link proved, ****ing around with Sessions is going to infuriate the base and it looks like Sessions is in no mood to capitulate, going to be very interesting to see what happens here.

The nationalist base have been Trump's most loyal backers, pissing them off when not exactly endearing himself to many others is at best a risky move.

PopePalpatine

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yeah that will be the main role of the person who has to replace Sessions, who the **** would want that hassle?:p

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/889873960304881668

Interesting that, Breitbart not keen on Sessions going, something like that would have to be ran past Bannon or one of his team.

I don't care whatsoever about Sessions, but Trump really is playing with fire here.

I wonder why they've defied their "God-Emperor"...maybe it's the allegations of racism that have been levelled against him and denied him a federal judgeship, making him some sort of "free speech" martyr?

demfad

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Looks like Sessions is toast. I wonder how much say Trump will give the GOP on who his replacement should be? Not a lot is my guess.

The Sessions 'feud' is a ruse. Recent revelations has shown that Sessions has as much to lose as Trump in the Mueller investigation.

Trump needs a puppet on the Russia investigation to fire Mueller and kill it. Sessions is recused. So they will have a 'feud', Sessions may resign over recess. Anyone taking over as AG is either completely crazy or is a puppet who knows that Trump can deliver full autocracy.

He would need McConnell's help for this......(heart sinks)

Leroy42

That is a very interest take on it Demfad. So essentially, Trump manufactures this outrage to give him a reason to fire Sessions, Sessions is forced to resign due to lack of support from Trump.

Trump then brings in another AG, who fires Mueller and both Trump and Sessions are off the hook.

It makes sense. Why has Trump all of a sudden got his goat up about Sessions?

jooksavage

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder why they've defied their "God-Emperor"...maybe it's the allegations of racism that have been levelled against him and denied him a federal judgeship, making him some sort of "free speech" martyr?

Yeah that kind of thing can't harm his bona fides with the Breitbart contingent. It is kind of gratifying to see these surrogates getting ground up by the Trump machine. Put your credibility (well...) on the line to get me elected? Well f**k you. Sessions is one of those guys who's just so bad you don't really have to worry about his replacement. Of course, his successor could be just as bad as him, but it'd be hard for them to much worse.

PopePalpatine

jooksavage wrote: »

Yeah that kind of thing can't harm his bona fides with the Breitbart contingent. It is kind of gratifying to see these surrogates getting ground up by the Trump machine. Put your credibility (well...) on the line to get me elected? Well f**k you. Sessions is one of those guys who's just so bad you don't really have to worry about his replacement. Of course, his successor could be just as bad as him, but it'd be hard for them to much worse.

That depends, what's Bannon's legal credentials? Assuming Trump can pry him away from his status as one of 4chan's oldest 0.1% of users, that is.

Itssoeasy

So I see that trump used a big gathering of the Boy Scouts of America to go off message like only the 45th president can. It appears lots of former scouts and parents are LESS than impressed with his rambling speech yesterday.

It appears that Donald trump can't help himself at all.

It's amazing that the one thing Jeff sessions has done which was the right thing is the thing that trump is pissed at him about.

Quin_Dub

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So I see that trump used a big gathering of the Boy Scouts of America to go off message like only the 45th president can. It appears lots of former scouts and parents are LESS than impressed with his rambling speech yesterday.

Here are some quotes from the speech


The fact that this was in front of Boy Scouts makes it worse , but no matter who this speech was in front of it's just a wild stream of semi-consciousness.

Ipse dixit

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's because you're trying to find a rational basis for that support.

Think about it: more than half of Trump supporters believe that Donald Jr didn't meet with a Russian lawyer after he said he did.

That's cult-like self-delusion. That's Orwellian-grade doublethink. That's the sort of voter that can't be reasoned with.

And that's the problem facing the Democrats. For all the criticism of them for failing to listen to people, there is quite simply nothing rational for them to listen to. I've made the point before: the people have spoken, and what they have said is: "tell us what we want to hear, even if we know you're lying."

Can't we do a bit better on this forum than major oversimplifications and generalisations?

The notion that these people have nothing rational to say is incredible.

What scares me is the number of Democratic cheerleaders who are the definition of the illiberal intolerant modern liberal whose smugness and holier than thou attitude has managed to haemorrhage seats for the Dems the last decade.

You and your ilk want to blame everyone else for the problem the US has found itself in. If it's not the Russians it's the Trump 'idiots'.

Itssoeasy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Here are some quotes from the speech


The fact that this was in front of Boy Scouts makes it worse , but no matter who this speech was in front of it's just a wild stream of semi-consciousness.

Good god those quotes from the speech are strange. What had most of that to do with the scouts ? Nothing would be the answer.

ThisRegard

Ipse dixit wrote: »

Can't we do a bit better on this forum than major oversimplifications and generalisations?
.......

What scares me is the number of Democratic cheerleaders who are the definition of the illiberal intolerant modern liberal whose smugness and holier than thou attitude has managed to haemorrhage seats for the Dems the last decade.

You and your ilk want to blame everyone else for the problem the US has found itself in. If it's not the Russians it's the Trump 'idiots'.

What, illiberal liberals and whatnot?

For Forks Sake

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Here are some quotes from the speech


The fact that this was in front of Boy Scouts makes it worse , but no matter who this speech was in front of it's just a wild stream of semi-consciousness.

Well, he's already mounted his offensive on the Lugenpresse,may as well go for a Trump Youth movement to add to the look. :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

To me, Trump's presidency illustrates the strength of US democratic institutions. They've elected someone who can charitably be described as a preening egomaniac but he's been largely held in check by the legislature, the judiciary, and law enforcement. Despite all the bluster, he hasn't managed to do much (despite having a Republican controlled congress) and is gradually being squeezed by investigations into his and his associates' conduct.

At the moment, I think we're looking at an ineffectual president, perpetually mired in controversy, more a Warren Harding than a Richard Nixon.

Taken on its own, his election may appear like a worrying slide into to the abyss, but American history has been punctuated by bouts of upheaval, characterised by mass hysteria, black propaganda e.g. McCarthyism, the Spanish - American war of 1898 etc.

oscarBravo

Ipse dixit wrote: »

What scares me is the number of Democratic cheerleaders who are the definition of the illiberal intolerant modern liberal whose smugness and holier than thou attitude has managed to haemorrhage seats for the Dems the last decade.

I was wrong to say that nobody has any prescriptions for the DNC. I forgot about this hoary chestnut: the idea that the DNC is losing support because it's insufficiently right-wing. Because that's exactly what the US needs: both major parties to focus all their energies on wooing middle-aged conservative white men.

aloyisious

Water John wrote: »

The rant on HC and Sessions, is obviously to bury something else. Either Kushner's hearing yesterday or something that's about to come out.

Distract, distract.

Yesterdays Kushner after-senate media speech was all I. I. I, Me, Me, Me. Totally devoid of a mention of O/P's by name or relationship.

aloyisious

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yeah that will be the main role of the person who has to replace Sessions, who the **** would want that hassle?:p

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/889873960304881668

Interesting that, Breitbart not keen on Sessions going, something like that would have to be ran past Bannon or one of his team.

I don't care whatsoever about Sessions, but Trump really is playing with fire here.

Could one read from that that some-one in Breitbart made a mistake accidentally revealing that Bannon is a Pence loyalist, or is it a [this tweet meets with my approval]?

Ipse dixit

oscarBravo wrote: »

I was wrong to say that nobody has any prescriptions for the DNC. I forgot about this hoary chestnut: the idea that the DNC is losing support because it's insufficiently right-wing. Because that's exactly what the US needs: both major parties to focus all their energies on wooing middle-aged conservative white men.

That's not what I said. You seem prone to making arguments that aren't there. The Dems are the equivalent of the Tories in the US. The Republicans haven't done a good job yet have made gains in the last 10 years. Your answer is that the electorate are idiots.

Again, your oversimplifying the whole process because it suits your narrative. The Dems have alienated people becuase they are completely out of touch with middle America.

You'll be scratching your head looking for the easy answer in 4 years too.

Quin_Dub

Ipse dixit wrote: »

That's not what I said. You seem prone to making arguments that aren't there. The Dems are the equivalent of the Tories in the US. The Republicans haven't done a good job yet have made gains in the last 10 years. Your answer is that the electorate are idiots.

Again, your oversimplifying the whole process because it suits your narrative. The Dems have alienated people becuase they are completely out of touch with middle America.

You'll be scratching your head looking for the easy answer in 4 years too.

Sadly the two are not mutually exclusive..

Without doubt , the Democrats are out of touch and need to build a better narrative.. No matter how utterly awful Trump is (and he is!!) they need something more than that..

However , it's perfectly reasonable to ask how you get through to people, who as in the example above don't believe the DT Jr met with the Russians even though he himself was the one that told everyone..

Even it the Democrats have a Damascene moment in the morning and suddenly hit on the perfect message , would these people listen or even believe it??

That's the challenge of the utterly polarised US right now.

aloyisious

If Don sacks Sessions and tries to appoint some-one else to the position, I assume it'll be out of house and not the DAG. The result is obvious: a move to drive out Rosenstein and sack Mueller Don wants to appoint a person of preference to head the FBI. Appointing fresh USSC judges is already part of his planning.

The judiciary, the prosecutors and the cops in his pocket, almost all the ingredients for an autocracy of the worst kind missing just the booted and suited element. Then Don shows up at a scouting event which is, for all intents and purposes, a youth rally. I understood that one of the partisan things that both Republican and Democrat parties agree on and equally dislike is one family controlling the US.

I can see that there is a chance that the Republicans see that now, with their possible agreement to rein in Russia, by resisting and sending a message to Don that sanctions on Russia related to Russian Govt anti-US activities will stay in place and be boosted by votes if necessary.

StringerBell

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is a very interest take on it Demfad. So essentially, Trump manufactures this outrage to give him a reason to fire Sessions, Sessions is forced to resign due to lack of support from Trump.

Trump then brings in another AG, who fires Mueller and both Trump and Sessions are off the hook.

It makes sense. Why has Trump all of a sudden got his goat up about Sessions?

Another theory put forward by some commentators has been that Trump has asked Sessions to get rid of Mueller and Sessions has told him he can't cause he has recused himself and this has set Trump off. Also testing the water and the reaction from the right if he were to get rid of Sessions.

The right are certainly not enamoured with the potential move anyway judging by Coulter, Breitbart etc weighing in today, plenty of support in general out there from Sessions. From both sides, the left talking up Sessions as a patriot and a constitutional American who even if they disagree with some of his views they still respect him and value him.

everlast75

An interesting article and absolutely mental if true...

https://patribotics.blog/2017/05/11/sources-russia-probe-means-president-hatch-rico-case-against-gop/

Pelvis

Site seems legit.

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

An interesting article and absolutely mental if true...

https://patribotics.blog/2017/05/11/sources-russia-probe-means-president-hatch-rico-case-against-gop/

To be fair Louise Mensch isn't exactly a balanced or un-biased view-point...

So I'd take a lot of that stuff with a fairly healthy pinch of salt..

Itssoeasy

John McCain addressing the us senate at the moment.

oscarBravo

Ipse dixit wrote: »

That's not what I said. You seem prone to making arguments that aren't there.

Yeah, you're one in a long line of posters to come on here and preach smugly about how Democratic smugness is the reason the GOP is winning elections, sprinkled with meaningless tropes about "illiberal liberals".

I had two choices: I could try to extrapolate your post into a meaningful point, or I could ignore it. I clearly took the wrong option.

The Dems are the equivalent of the Tories in the US.

In what sense? They're in government with support from a minor regional conservative party? They're pulling the US out of the EU?

The Republicans haven't done a good job yet have made gains in the last 10 years. Your answer is that the electorate are idiots.

Not all of them, no. But if you think that voting for people who are determined to strip you of health insurance in order to give tax breaks to the richest in society is a smart move, feel free to explain why.

Again, your oversimplifying the whole process because it suits your narrative.

Oh, I'm sorry about that. Maybe you should give an example of a thorough and well-researched analysis of the complexities of the American electoral process.

The Dems have alienated people becuase they are completely out of touch with middle America.

Or not.

Itssoeasy

John McCain just said that the senate as a body is not subordinate to the president. They are equal to him. Trump won't like that.

Itssoeasy

Whether you agree with John McCain or not on every issue. You can't deny he's an American hero. Some of his speech sounded a bit reflective of things he may have done wrong.

aloyisious

Some rallying and unifying speech, pushing for biartisanship. liked the "we are not the President's subordinate, we are his equal". Don is in Rose Garden praising both the passing of the bill and John McCain.

Edit. My bad... the vote was about having a debate next about the Trump/GOP bill to scrap the ACA and replace it {at some future date] with whatever bill bipartisanship manages to come up with in the Senate, which won't be much solace to those denied affordable health insurance care in the meantime. I can't see the GOP side of the Senate managing to get a bill through on its own, what with its internal splits on the topic.

Itssoeasy

aloyisious wrote: »

Some rallying and unifying speech, pushing for biartisanship. liked the "we are not the President's subordinate, we are his equal". Don is in Rose Garden praising both the passing of the bill and John McCain.

it's a vote to get to a vote. And John McCain said he won't vote for it in its current form.

Really Interested

aloyisious wrote: »

Some rallying and unifying speech, pushing for biartisanship. liked the "we are not the President's subordinate, we are his equal". Don is in Rose Garden praising both the passing of the bill and John McCain.

McCain said "I will not vote on this bill as it is today" he voted yesto debate but has clearly set down he will not vote for the bill as it stands.

Professor Moriarty

McConnell just said that Sessions is doing a fine job. There's the whiff of a split in the air.

Itssoeasy

At the end of mccains speech I taught I saw VP pence sitting in the seat of the president of the senate(yes I know the VP is the president of the senate, but he's not there all the time) and according to Fox News he cast the tie breaking vote to pass a procedural vote in the senate.

That's embarrassing IMO.

Itssoeasy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

McConnell just said that Sessions is doing a fine job. There's the whiff of a split in the air.

The fact that trumps traditional supporters in the media and in congress have not rowed in behind him as a unit like I'm sure he expected is bad. Also whatever issues Jeff sessions may have with regard to Russia, he was well liked by his senate colleagues for the most part. If you go after one of their former colleagues like trump has then expect some push back.

MadYaker

Was McCains speech worth watching?

Itssoeasy

MadYaker wrote: »

Was McCains speech worth watching?

I didn't see all of it but the bit I did see I would say absolutely yes.

Professor Moriarty

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The fact that trumps traditional supporters in the media and in congress have not rowed in behind him as a unit like I'm sure he expected is bad. Also whatever issues Jeff sessions may have with regard to Russia, he was well liked by his senate colleagues for the most part. If you go after one of their former colleagues like trump has then expect some push back.

Trump is isolating himself. Probably too stupid to realise it. You can't crap all over the media, the intel services and your own party on a daily basis and expect to get away with it for four years.

Itssoeasy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump is isolating himself. Probably too stupid to realise it. You can't crap all over the media, the intel services and your own party on a daily basis and expect to get away with it for four years.

He is but in his reality he thinks he's doing brilliant things. He's crapping over everyone despite being certified by the electoral college as president yet he's still banging on about not being accepted as president.

I'm sure lots of people aren't happy he's president and may not accept it but the fact remains that he is the US president until at least 12 midday ET on January 20th 2021. So he's needs to get over it.

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

He is but in his reality he thinks he's doing brilliant things. He's crapping over everyone despite being certified by the electoral college as president yet he's still banging on about not being accepted as president.

I'm sure lots of people aren't happy he's president and may not accept it but the fact remains that he is the US president until at least 12 midday ET on January 20th 2021. So he's needs to get over it.

(Unless he is impeached)