Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Rightwing

Sonics2k wrote: »

Wait, you think N. Korea is a threat?

The U.S. Presidents have a long and bloody history of using Wars to increase the popularity. Bush Jnr did it, Clinton did it, and it keeps going on.

Trump claimed for ages that he'd run as a President who wouldn't get involved in a war. Does nobody else find it a bit odd that just as **** is really hitting the fan, as his family is interviewed, as the FBI dig into his bank records, his top guys quit or get fired.

All of a sudden, it's time for a war with North Korea.

Even Mattis has gone on record saying going to war with North Korea would be a mistake:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4550380/Mattis-says-war-North-Korea-catastrophic.html

I agree with that.

Hit them hard, we can worry about the fallout later.

Sonics2k

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree with that.

Hit them hard, we can worry about the fallout later.

Hmm, this may be suitable for another thread. But surely this whole course of action the Yanks have taken over the last 40-50 years is exactly what has contributed to and created some of the worst regimes and terrorist organisations in history.

Rightwing

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hmm, this may be suitable for another thread. But surely this whole course of action the Yanks have taken over the last 40-50 years is exactly what has contributed to and created some of the worst regimes and terrorist organisations in history.

Well we saw what dropping the bombs on the Japs did, it brought them to their senses pretty quickly. I'm more in favour of this type of warfare than boots on the ground 1900 century style rubbish.

Akrasia

Tens of thousands of 'Jap' civilians were vaporized. You're in favour of destroying cities in order to influence governments to do what you want them to do?

Your opinion is medieval

Really Interested

Rightwing wrote: »

Well we saw what dropping the bombs on the Japs did, it brought them to their senses pretty quickly. I'm more in favour of this type of warfare than boots on the ground 1900 century style rubbish.

The Japanese did not have nuclear bombs if reports are true NK has 60 warheads, and a means to get them to a lot of countries. If NK does not have this ability then this is just another WMD situation which will end in lots of GI's giving their lives.

Water John

That WH press release reads like a wind up from some one.

oscarBravo

I'm waiting to hear from that poster whose sole reason for supporting Trump was that Hillary was a warmonger and would get us all killed.

Really Interested

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm waiting to hear from that poster whose sole reason for supporting Trump was that Hillary was a warmonger and would get us all killed.

That is all of them, they just deny now that was the reason and they always knew he was going to sort out NK. Then when half the world is a waste land they will say that was the plan all along, and look at the good side less people will be having abortions or some other crap reaosn as they to a person are too ingrained in the crap to see they have been played and those who are anti trump are too pissed off that the others did not listen.

Sam Russell

Rightwing wrote: »

Well we saw what dropping the bombs on the Japs did, it brought them to their senses pretty quickly. I'm more in favour of this type of warfare than boots on the ground 1900 century style rubbish.

I think that is not quite true. I have heard it said that if Hirohito had known that the USA only had three bombs (one tested in the desert, one on Hiroshima, and one on Nagasaki) he would not have given the order to cease hostilities. It was his belief that the USA had many more to continue destroying Japanese cities.

Deterrents only work if they can be backed up with action, but mutual destruction also works. It was Khrushchev who backed down because he was convinced that Kennedy would carry through his threats.

I do not think either NK or the USA could be trusted to not carry through actions that lead to mutual destruction. (Well at least major destruction of the Korean peninsula).

I hope I am wrong.

Itssoeasy

Why is trump saying he's not ruling out military action against Venezuela ? Surely North Korea is the more pressing matter and the de escalating the tension that has been created by his retoric ?

Timberrrrrrrr

Rightwing wrote: »

You have a point here. But weak leaders like Obama left N Korea develop and suddenly we have a problem. Likes of Libya were never a threat.

Nuke Kim Jun. Job done.

Another brave "nuke em" poster who would balk at the thought if actually having to do any of the dirty work themselves.

Always the same in these threads where the brave keyboard warriors want to send nukes flying killing millions of innocent men women and children and not even thinking about the consequences for the rest of the world

Laughable at best.

Rightwing

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that is not quite true. I have heard it said that if Hirohito had known that the USA only had three bombs (one tested in the desert, one on Hiroshima, and one on Nagasaki) he would not have given the order to cease hostilities. It was his belief that the USA had many more to continue destroying Japanese cities.

Deterrents only work if they can be backed up with action, but mutual destruction also works. It was Khrushchev who backed down because he was convinced that Kennedy would carry through his threats.

I do not think either NK or the USA could be trusted to not carry through actions that lead to mutual destruction. (Well at least major destruction of the Korean peninsula).

I hope I am wrong.

Times have changed.

Countries like Korea should have been kept in the dark ages, but the lefties got it badly wrong, thinking Korea and Iran were their friends. I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Another brave "nuke em" poster who would balk at the thought if actually having to do any of the dirty work themselves.

Always the same in these threads where the brave keyboard warriors want to send nukes flying killing millions of innocent men women and children and not even thinking about the consequences for the rest of the world

Laughable at best.

Act now, don't pay later.

Timberrrrrrrr

Rightwing wrote: »

Times have changed.

Countries like Korea should have been kept in the dark ages, but the lefties got it badly wrong, thinking Korea and Iran were their friends. I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious.



Act now, don't pay later.

And when your family is dying from radiation poisoning you will still think it's a great idea? :rolleyes:

Rightwing

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And when your family is dying from radiation poisoning you will still think it's a great idea? :rolleyes:

Well that's why you act now.

The paying later is what you are referring to.

Timberrrrrrrr

Rightwing wrote: »

Well that's why you act now.

The paying later is what you are referring to.

No

You want to send nukes flying

Your family dying would be because of that

You are saying you would be ok with that?

Or are you so far removed from reality that you think the fallout from nuclear war would somehow avoid your house?

Rightwing

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No

You want to send nukes flying

Your family dying would be because of that

You are saying you would be ok with that?

Or are you so far removed from reality that you think the fallout from nuclear war would somehow avoid your house?

Well we are clearly seeing that Obama's policy of letting Kim Yun do whatever he likes isn't exactly reaping great rewards now, it it ? Eh ?

Nody

Rightwing wrote: »

Well we are clearly seeing that Obama's policy of letting Kim Yun do whatever he likes isn't exactly reaping great rewards now, it it ? Eh ?

And you did not answer the question; seeing as the fallout is likely to hit China and they will respond in kind. So are you ready to have Chinese nukes incoming to nuke NK or not?

Sonics2k

Rightwing wrote: »

Times have changed.

Countries like Korea should have been kept in the dark ages, but the lefties got it badly wrong, thinking Korea and Iran were their friends. I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious.



Act now, don't pay later.

Eh, when did any 'Lefties' act like N. Korea was a friend? It's a bloody dictatorship, and whilst the Left has never called for it to be nuked, I've never seen people oppose getting rid of Kim Jong.

Billy86

Funny, Obama didn't manage a nuclear war which is what so many Trump supporters were claiming was a huge reason they din't want the other party to win. Trump for world peace, Trump for US isolationism, Trump or an end to dodgy links with Saudi Arabia, Trump the end of US imperialism! Over and over we heard that.

A few months ago when it became obvious they were wrong on that as they had been told from the outset, it became 'deep state, deep state!!' trying to claim it wasn't really poor Donald's fault.

Now that Trump is the one pushing and pushing even while many of his most senior advisers are saying it is a bad idea, it's just outright "yeah, Trump is right! The US needs to go to war, no time for isolationism, nation building is needed!"

Needless to say, none of us should be surprised. Trump could shoot one of his own supporters family members in the chest and the very first thing to enter their minds would be "how can we make this look like Obama, Clinton, or someone is responsible for this?"

Timberrrrrrrr

Rightwing wrote: »

Well we are clearly seeing that Obama's policy of letting Kim Yun do whatever he likes isn't exactly reaping great rewards now, it it ? Eh ?

Every single world leader has done this but yeah let's blame Obama :rolleyes:

So you will be happy to watch your wife/mother/father/children die from radiation poisoning if Trump dies send the nukes flying?

Will you hold their hand and explain how it was all worth it to get rid of that nasty little man?

Really Interested

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Every single world leader has done this but yeah let's blame Obama :rolleyes:

So you will be happy to watch your wife/mother/father/children die from radiation poisoning if Trump dies send the nukes flying?

Will you hold their hand and explain how it was all worth it to get rid of that nasty little man?

No make it even more real he will not be able to buy a new smartphone for ages and the price will go through the roof.

ThisRegard

Rightwing wrote: »

I agree with that.

Hit them hard, we can worry about the fallout later.

Obviously you're talking about the nuclear fallout of course.

Peregrinus

Rightwing wrote: »

Well we are clearly seeing that Obama's policy of letting Kim Yun do whatever he likes isn't exactly reaping great rewards now, it it ? Eh ?

Whereas Trump's policy of speaking in meaningless cliches borrowed from B-movies in a vain attempt to conceal the fact that he is out of his depth and has no clue what to do has been a triumphant success.

Christy42

Billy86 wrote: »

Funny, Obama didn't manage a nuclear war which is what so many Trump supporters were claiming was a huge reason they din't want the other party to win. Trump for world peace, Trump for US isolationism, Trump or an end to dodgy links with Saudi Arabia, Trump the end of US imperialism! Over and over we heard that.

A few months ago when it became obvious they were wrong on that as they had been told from the outset, it became 'deep state, deep state!!' trying to claim it wasn't really poor Donald's fault.

Now that Trump is the one pushing and pushing even while many of his most senior advisers are saying it is a bad idea, it's just outright "yeah, Trump is right! The US needs to go to war, no time for isolationism, nation building is needed!"

Needless to say, none of us should be surprised. Trump could shoot one of his own supporters family members in the chest and the very first thing to enter their minds would be "how can we make this look like Obama, Clinton, or someone is responsible for this?"

It is funny that all those who called Trump the candidate of peace have disappeared and suddenly the warmongers have appeared now that he has been so aggressive (against anyone and everyone really).

My worry over N.Korea wold have increased greatly after all of Trump's posturing if I was in range.

It is also interesting to note that the white house can't get a consistent message with Trump and Tillerson flat out arguing in the media.

Sonics2k

Christy42 wrote: »

It is funny that all those who called Trump the candidate of peace have disappeared and suddenly the warmongers have appeared now that he has been so aggressive (against anyone and everyone really).

My worry over N.Korea wold have increased greatly after all of Trump's posturing if I was in range.

It is also interesting to note that the white house can't get a consistent message with Trump and Tillerson flat out arguing in the media.

From what I can tell it's largely the same people.

ThisRegard

Interesting to see if Trump acknowledges the fact that armed militias and other far Rightwing white nationalist headcases causing disturbances in Virginia, including against the press, no doubt emboldened by Trump himself. State of emergency declared.

There's one great video of 3 or 4 guys with automatic weapons and combat gear retreating from a bunch of people with phones in military formation as if they're in Aleppo.

dudara

Combat gear, automatic weapons and Nazi flags on public display in the US. A torchlit parade last night reminiscent of the KKK.

It's astounding how emboldened these far rightwing nationalists have become.

For Forks Sake

dudara wrote: »

Combat gear, automatic weapons and Nazi flags on public display in the US. A torchlit parade last night reminiscent of the KKK.

It's astounding how emboldened these far rightwing nationalists have become.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/unite-rally-virginia-sparks-counterprotests-state-emergency/story?id=49176243

"Welcome" to America 2017 :rolleyes:

Really Interested

For Forks Sake wrote: »

http://abcnews.go.com/US/unite-rally-virginia-sparks-counterprotests-state-emergency/story?id=49176243

"Welcome" to America 2017 :rolleyes:

Can someone explain what is the difference between that crowd and ISIS?

ThisRegard

Lack of horrible murders for one.

Professor Moriarty

ThisRegard wrote: »

Interesting to see if Trump acknowledges the fact that armed militias and other far Rightwing white nationalist headcases causing disturbances in Virginia, including against the press, no doubt emboldened by Trump himself. State of emergency declared.

There's one great video of 3 or 4 guys with automatic weapons and combat gear retreating from a bunch of people with phones in military formation as if they're in Aleppo.

If you are stupid enough to allow ordinary citizen to buy guns then you deserve what you get.

Akrasia

Is America great again yet?

How the heck did Nazis become the republican base?

Professor Moriarty

Unfortunately not. Just a matter of time before there are more.

Akrasia

ThisRegard wrote: »

Lack of horrible murders for one.

They're Nazis. Give them time

ThisRegard

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Unfortunately not. Only a matter of time before there are more.

Link slightly incorrect. Of course I'm not denying those assholes don't get a kick out of lynchings and the like but they're methods aren't really comparible.

PopePalpatine

ThisRegard wrote: »

Interesting to see if Trump acknowledges the fact that armed militias and other far Rightwing white nationalist headcases causing disturbances in Virginia, including against the press, no doubt emboldened by Trump himself. State of emergency declared.

Shure it's all in the name of free speech, anyone who can shout their counterarguments above the chants of "f*ck you f****ts" is clearly a shrill SJW!

RustyNut

Really Interested wrote: »

Can someone explain what is the difference between that crowd and ISIS?

These nutters are racist nutters isis are religious nutters. The hate is the same the difference is the target of the hate.

Frank Bullitt

ThisRegard wrote: »

Lack of horrible murders for one.

Are lynchings not in the same league then?

Nody

Akrasia wrote: »

Is America great again yet?

How the heck did Nazis become the republican base?

They always were but since people don't need to be "politically correct" any more with Trump as president they simply shed the pretences and went open about it. Add in Trump focusing on Muslim terrorists in USA (in a time when Right wing terrorist attacks on American soil are more than twice as common and only 50% as likely to be foiled by police and twice as likely to cause deaths) and that's what you get. Don't be surprised when Trump gives them positive credits to standing up against Democrats or something similar via twitter. Oh and talking about dropping the political correctness; can we stop referring to them as "white nationalists" or "alt right" and simply call them nazies and be done with it? After all political correctness has gone to far so let's call an apple an apple after all.

Professor Moriarty

ThisRegard wrote: »

Link slightly incorrect. Of course I'm not denying those assholes don't get a kick out of lynchings and the like but they're methods aren't really comparible.

How do you mean slightly incorrect? Is the link not working?

He is a racist who attended alt right rallies and was a white supremacist before slashing the throats of two people defending two Muslim women. These murders are the mirror image of the recent London and Manchester atrocities. I think that Trump's rhetoric has only emboldened these idiots and they are now much more of a threat than ever. It will only be a small step forward for them to start attacking non-whites.

Timberrrrrrrr

ThisRegard wrote: »

Lack of horrible murders for one.

I dunno about that

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.essence.com/culture/horrific-kkk-crimes

ThisRegard

Nah, link gives a 404, it has a Google address padding it out at the start.

For everyone else, I figure you didn't see my subsequent clarification post. As bad as they are, they're not in ISIS territory, yet maybe. Anyway, we're being sidetracked.

Professor Moriarty

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nah, link gives a 404, it has a Google address padding it out at the start.

For everyone else, I figure you didn't see my subsequent clarification post. As bad as they are, they're not in ISIS territory, yet maybe. Anyway, we're being sidetracked.

Try this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/27/portland-double-murder-white-supremacist-muslim-hate-speech

Not as bad as ISIS for sure but the principles of hate are very similar.

dudara

Given that the Holocaust, as carried out by the Nazis, lead to the death of 6 million people on a truly systematic scale, I'd argue that ISIS are only trotting after the Nazis yet.

The Nazis were one of the greatest evils seen on this earth. It's deeply troubling to see their flag being paraded in public.

Rightwing

Nody wrote: »

And you did not answer the question; seeing as the fallout is likely to hit China and they will respond in kind. So are you ready to have Chinese nukes incoming to nuke NK or not?

The bottomline is that all of this is mere rhetoric and posturing. The stock markets have fallen 1.5-2%, doesn't smack of outright panic to me.

Regrettably, Trump is unable to nuke. He knows it, Kim Jun knows it.

The only war Trump will start is a trade war, which begins next week.

Leroy42

Regretably? If the only way that you can win the argument is to wipe out millions and potentially start WWIII, then you are arguing wrong.

Don't forget that mutual destruction as well as not wanting to be the country to start the nuclear wipe-out has played a major role in the lack of major wars since WWII. If Trump launches nuclear weapons you can forget about trying to limit their stockpiling by other countries. Do you think Russia is going to be more calm?

Obama did a great job in curbing Iran's nuclear program, what do you think they are going to think if the US attack with nuclear weapons? Do you think they are going to simply remain free of them?

US will have shown that the only way to stand up to the US is to have nuclear weapons, as not having them places you at a distinct disadvantage. The technology is now 60 years old, it really is only a matter of time before more countries get it and that will only be advanced due to those countries now be sure that should US turn to them the nuclear is a very real probability.

Professor Moriarty

Rightwing wrote: »

The bottomline is that all of this is mere rhetoric and posturing. The stock markets have fallen 1.5-2%, doesn't smack of outright panic to me.

Regrettably, Trump is unable to nuke. He knows it, Kim Jun knows it.

The only war Trump will start is a trade war, which begins next week.

Yeah. You don't actually don't believe much of what you argue for, do you? But that's ok, this thread needs a foil.

RustyNut

Rightwing wrote: »

The only war Trump will start is a trade war, which begins next week.

He's probably on the hotline to his bosses in Moscow right now to see if they will let him.

aloyisious

Are we watching the break-up of the US into two federations? Is this the wish of those behind Trump, who he has on his White House senior civilian staff? The removal of the Robert E Lee statue was probably used as a rallying cause by the White Ethnicity Front [my label for those white militant well equipped protests] coming to town to start a ****storm. Sky is reporting that a car has been driven into a crowd in the city, but no info on which crowd was struck.

For Forks Sake

All sorts of sh1t going down in Charlottesville, have seen video of a car ploughing into protesters at speed.

And Trumps reaction (and bearing in mind this is POTUS, not a random word generator) ...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896431205549318144

Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!
11:00 AM - 12 Aug 2017