Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Autochange

Samaris wrote: »

Well, you know, some people like to remain informed about potential society-destroying events, even if it isn't one's own society. And given the whole issue of an interconnected world and how what happens in America affects the rest of the world, it is rather more than just "entertainment" to anyone who has an interest in what may be happening around them soon enough. While one may not be able to do anything about much of it, it is generally better to be informed - rather than regarding it as just entertainment and a source of anger and frustration to [nebulous block of people not in your mental tribe]. It is a very strange outlook, that; oh, this thing upsets you, how funny that is!

I like everyone else am entitled to my opinion.

derb12

Just watching cnn this evening, it is hard to watch the trump apologists squirming as they try to justify his total lack of leadership and basic cop-on. When trump began his speech earlier I thought that maybe just maybe, this could be a turning point for him, but then came his "many sides" comment and it was a moment squandered. He had a written speech that he read poorly, but having seen it a few times, I think the many sides line was improvised.
Trump is a dangerous fool.

Samaris

Autochange wrote: »

I like everyone else am entitled to my opinion.

Yeah, but I'm entitled to give my opinion on it in return. But you commented on your interest in the whole phenomenon so I offered an explanation.

Regarding the speech, I thought the "on many sides. On many sides" bit was the low point, but then he got onto employment rates and renegotiating tax deals and I gave up.

Sounds like dig, but it isn't. He actually diverted onto self-praise while attempting to communicate to the nation regarding a tragedy.

Rjd2

Trump had a wonderful chance to actually do something right tonight and genuinely hammer these racists. I appreciate he did condemn it, but when you consider the fury he has unleashed over much more trivial things, its not good enough whatsoever. I think this is a pretty reasonable article from a right POV.

http://amp.nationalreview.com/corner/450433/alt-rights-chickens-come-home-roost

French has been on fire today for what its worth and he is someone who is worth reading even you disagree with his POV (conservative)normally.

Heck look at how the likes of Rubio, Cruz and Ryan have came out more forcefully today then Trump which makes his comments even more banal.

I agree we do need to have a conversation about Antifa in the future, but they right now they are not the priority and its Whataboutism at its laziest.

Rjd2

https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/896561963697885184

Pretty spot on really. The racists won't save Trump in 2020, this is a great chance for him to dump them and try and heal some wounds, at the very least, its a start to try and win back some of the normal conservatives, but you know "this is going to be Liverpool's year" etc.:o

Fox to their credit are spot on here. :eek:

jooksavage

A day has scarcely passed since Jan that Trump hasn't done something to bring the office of President into disrepute. Even in those Trump-adjusted terms, his response to Charlottesville is a historical low. I say historical in a literal sense: his mealy-mouthed response to the events in Virginia is giving succour to ACTUAL NAZIS. That's legacy-defining stuff.

In a few days, when his advocates here are defending Trump on some other issue, it should be remembered, the guy they are defending is doing his level best not to alienate white supremacists. That's not some small idiosyncrasy that can be cheerfully ignored: if you keep faith with Trump you're on the side that can't find the words to condemn ACTUAL NAZIS.

ancapailldorcha

Autochange, stop trolling this forum please.

Akrasia

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/896561963697885184

Pretty spot on really. The racists won't save Trump in 2020, this is a great chance for him to dump them and try and heal some wounds, at the very least, its a start to try and win back some of the normal conservatives, but you know "this is going to be Liverpool's year" etc.:o

Fox to their credit are spot on here. :eek:

Trump has spent the last year and a half turning the republican base into racists. We're not talking about mensa candidates here, they're very easily led by what their leader tells them.

The Republican party is the authoritarian party, most authoritarians aren't leaders, they're followers. we've seen this in real time. 52% of republican voters would support Trump if he proposed that the 2020 election be postponed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/10/in-a-new-poll-half-of-republicans-say-they-would-support-postponing-the-2020-election-if-trump-proposed-it/

Professor Moriarty

When you vote Bannon's sock puppet in as POTUS, this is what you get. I hope Trump voters are proud of themselves this morning.

Rightwing

Trump has been poor. No question about that. Obama was poor, as was Bush, Clinton, Bush Snr. Society as a whole needs a big wake up call. Blaming Trump is a bit like blaming a fire, without looking for what has caused it.

Professor Moriarty

Rightwing wrote: »

Trump has been poor. No question about that. Obama was poor, as was Bush, Clinton, Bush Snr. Society as a whole needs a big wake up call. Blaming Trump is a bit like blaming a fire, without looking for what has caused it.

I blame the idiots who elected him. Comparing Trump and Obama is like comparing a cow pat with an intelligent and principled human being.

Akrasia

Rightwing wrote: »

Trump has been poor. No question about that. Obama was poor, as was Bush, Clinton, Bush Snr. Society as a whole needs a big wake up call. Blaming Trump is a bit like blaming a fire, without looking for what has caused it.

Trump is napalm dripping onto the fire. He is piling fuel onto the fire. Everything he has done has only served to divide the country and the world even more

dudara

Rightwing wrote: »

Trump has been poor. No question about that. Obama was poor, as was Bush, Clinton, Bush Snr. Society as a whole needs a big wake up call. Blaming Trump is a bit like blaming a fire, without looking for what has caused it.

Trump has not been poor. He has been inept, irresponsible and stupid at best; at worst he's potentially mentally unfit, incapable of rational decisions and potentially guilty of multiple criminal acts. In addition, he's shamelessly used the position of president to personally enrich himself and his family.

Obama was hugely intelligent and principled, and while I'm not a huge fan of the Bushes, they were at least educated and aware of how to do the job. As was basically every president before Trump.

Rightwing

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I blame the idiots who elected him. Comparing Trump and Obama is like comparing a cow pat with an intelligent and principled human being.

Society became more divided under Obama than any other president. He pandered to Wall St, at the expense of Main St. Result, ( guess ) = Trump.

This is beginning to happen in the EU now.

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump is napalm dripping onto the fire. He is piling fuel onto the fire. Everything he has done has only served to divide the country and the world even more

I agree with this.

RustyNut

listermint wrote: »

Who are these libtards.

If you can't attack the message attack the messenger.

JRant

It's an absolute travesty that we are seeing such a breakdown in American society these past few years. Between the current idiot in charge and the previous idiot he took over from with both refusing to condemn in the strongest possible terms crimes carried out due to race.

Trump did condemn yesterday's attack but he could have been much stronger in calling out white supremacists. This is pretty much a mirror image of Obama refusing to call BLM exactly what they are as well, another bunch of supremacists that just happen to have a different skin colour.

A lot of work needs to be done to start bridging the ever widening gap in American society, unfortunately both this and the last president are/we're not up to the job.

Professor Moriarty

Rightwing wrote: »

Society became more divided under Obama than any other president. He pandered to Wall St, at the expense of Main St. Result, ( guess ) = Trump.

This is beginning to happen in the EU now.



I agree with this.

Obama is to blame for Trump? Of course.

This argument is very silly and long past its sell by date.

Sonics2k

Rightwing wrote: »

Society became more divided under Obama than any other president. He pandered to Wall St, at the expense of Main St. Result, ( guess ) = Trump.

This is beginning to happen in the EU now.



I agree with this.

Hang on a second.

First of all you say Obama has divided people more than any other President, and then you go on to agree with someone who says Trump has divided the world even more.

So, it's bad when Obama did it, but you support Trump doing it?

RustyNut

JRant wrote: »

It's an absolute travesty that we are seeing such a breakdown in American society these past few years. Between the current idiot in charge and the previous idiot he took over from with both refusing to condemn in the strongest possible terms crimes carried out due to race.

Trump did condemn yesterday's attack but he could have been much stronger in calling out white supremacists. This is pretty much a mirror image of Obama refusing to call BLM exactly what they are as well, another bunch of supremacists that just happen to have a different skin colour.

A lot of work needs to be done to start bridging the ever widening gap in American society, unfortunately both this and the last president are/we're not up to the job.

I think you have that wrong. The BLM movement are looking for black people to be treated equally by the state. The kkk, nazi lads are most definitely not looking for equality.

Rightwing

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Obama is to blame for Trump? Of course.

This argument is very silly and long past its sell by date.

It's not. A fact is never out of date. You can apply this to any theory in life.

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hang on a second.

First of all you say Obama has divided people more than any other President, and then you go on to agree with someone who says Trump has divided the world even more.

So, it's bad when Obama did it, but you support Trump doing it?

No I don't. The key difference here is, Trump is crude, tactless and brash. Obama sly and cunning, which can fool many including yourself. He wants to be seen as Mr Popular (oh yes, I'll pen my memoirs now for $60m, but I'm not in it for the money folks, I'm in it to for society, America is in a better place now). Sorry Obama, it's not. Trump is your legacy.

Sonics2k

Rightwing wrote: »

No I don't. The key difference here is, Trump is crude, tactless and brash. Obama sly and cunning, which can fool many including yourself. He wants to be seen as Mr Popular (oh yes, I'll pen my memoirs now for $60m, but I'm not in it for the money folks, I'm in it to for society, America is in a better place now). Sorry Obama, it's not. Trump is your legacy.

That literally makes no sense though.

Are you saying part of your problem with Obama is that he dares to make money from his memoirs?

Literally every bloody celebrity and thousands of politicians do this, but Obama is the bad one because he was smooth?

Trump literally campaigned on a claim he was an every-man, that he cared about the people of the U.S. and he wasn't out for himself, but the last 8 months has completely proven otherwise.

Rightwing

Sonics2k wrote: »

That literally makes no sense though.

Are you saying part of your problem with Obama is that he dares to make money from his memoirs?

Literally every bloody celebrity and thousands of politicians do this, but Obama is the bad one because he was smooth?

Trump literally campaigned on a claim he was an every-man, that he cared about the people of the U.S. and he wasn't out for himself, but the last 8 months has completely proven otherwise.

The man has almost singlehandedly bankrupted America. Wall St told him to jump, and he shouted how high. But he smiles. But that does not make him the Saint and Scholar most here think he is.

Christy42

Rightwing wrote: »

It's not. A fact is never out of date. You can apply this to any theory in life.



No I don't. The key difference here is, Trump is crude, tactless and brash. Obama sly and cunning, which can fool many including yourself. He wants to be seen as Mr Popular (oh yes, I'll pen my memoirs now for $60m, but I'm not in it for the money folks, I'm in it to for society, America is in a better place now). Sorry Obama, it's not. Trump is your legacy.

I always like this argument. Calling Trump Obama's legacy essentially calls the right to stupid to come up with a plan themselves. Essentially saying the right were too stupid to vote for a decent candidate cos Obama. I don'T agree with that but it amuses me.

Come on you say Obama was so terrible and yet the best the right could do in response is someone far worse. Even the right struggle to defend him. After 8 years of Obama the right wing section of the states was asked for a candidate and they managed Trump. I feel like we can call rightwing politics a failure here. We need to go left of the Democrats.

Still the only response from the right in response to their party having all the power is to keep talking about Obama as much as possible (for all his failings the recent healthcare debate has shown he has shifted the sides in the healthcare debate for the better, even most Republicans think it unimaginable to return to the old system).

Really Interested

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I blame the idiots who elected him. Comparing Trump and Obama is like comparing a cow pat with an intelligent and principled human being.

No you are wrong, trump is like the insect feeding off the cow pat.

Really Interested

Rightwing wrote: »

The man has almost singlehandedly bankrupted America. Wall St told him to jump, and he shouted how high. But he smiles. But that does not make him the Saint and Scholar most here think he is.

You just making stuff up now.

PopePalpatine

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

When you vote Bannon's sock puppet in as POTUS, this is what you get. I hope Trump voters are proud of themselves this morning.

They sure are, all that matters is that some imaginary obese pink-haired Muslim feminazi is having a mental breakdown at the sight of their mates marching in Charlottesville.

BillyBobBS

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I blame the idiots who elected him. Comparing Trump and Obama is like comparing a cow pat with an intelligent and principled human being.

The only principle Obama stood by was appearing on late night chat shows doing comedy sketches whilst the likes of ISIS gathered and Kim Fat perfected his nuclear arsenal. Obama was a complete disaster.

Really Interested

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The only principle Obama stood by was appearing on late night chat shows doing comedy sketches whilst the likes of ISIS gathered and Kim Fat perfected his nuclear arsenal. Obama was a complete disaster.

So you believe that NK has 60 warheads and method to deliver them a few thousand miles?

Calina

Rightwing wrote: »

Trump has been poor. No question about that. Obama was poor, as was Bush, Clinton, Bush Snr. Society as a whole needs a big wake up call. Blaming Trump is a bit like blaming a fire, without looking for what has caused it.

I disagree. Trump has been catastrophic. Obama was ambushed by a GOP which flatly refused to do any bipartisan negotiation. Clear example of this was their behaviour with respect to the last Supreme Court seat which should have been Merrick Garland and not Neil Gorsuch. Bush junior was inadequate and should never have been elected - what happened with the results of the election for his first term was injust. Clinton actually cleaned up the economy effectively but again the GOP banged on about him right left and centre and eventually managed to get him on lying about an affair. I can't imagine all of the GOP are as pure as the driven snow on that either. H.Bush was not incompetent imo but he wasn't good on the PR side thing.

It seems to me that the only way Trump supporters can even admit to themselves that Trump has been a fiasco is to comfort themselves with the illusion that so were a lot of others. But it is an illusion. Not even WBush comes close to the lack of competence demonstrated by Trump to date and that is saying quite a lot.

The GOP needs a root and branch reform. We desperately need competent parties supporting small government in all respects (including abortion, contraception and not just financing for roads, collection of tax and the like).

BillyBobBS

Rightwing wrote: »

It's not. A fact is never out of date. You can apply this to any theory in life.



No I don't. The key difference here is, Trump is crude, tactless and brash. Obama sly and cunning, which can fool many including yourself. He wants to be seen as Mr Popular (oh yes, I'll pen my memoirs now for $60m, but I'm not in it for the money folks, I'm in it to for society, America is in a better place now). Sorry Obama, it's not. Trump is your legacy.

The media was worked hard to paint Obama as a "great guy", the Irish media in particular make me want to puke when they speak of him in glowing terms.

As one person put it to me recently, Obama was a talk the talk president instead of a walk the walk president.

Samaris

Actually, the repeated slipping in of how BLM are just as bad as the KKK made me go read up on them more.

Further research indicates actually, no, they're not. While BLM have been involved in violent episodes, it was fairly rarely the protesters themselves. When one lone nut shot a group of police officers, BLM condemned the attack. When there were violent episodes at protests, it was a bit of a mixed bag as to who was responsible for the violence - including at least one occasion when five heavily armed and armoured counter-protesters showed up, shouted racial slurs and, when asked to go away, opened fire into the crowd. Yes. Very violent BLM right there. Ferguson was messy in the extreme, but that wasn't particularly organised violence, it was a riot in response to a emotionally-charged court case.

The vast majority have been peaceful protests. It is really quite remarkable how quickly and how repeatedly it's been drilled in and normalised in debate that the movement is a black KKK.

For anyone interested in what the truth actually is, don't take my word for it either, read up on it. Not saying every member of the movement (and bear in mind that the movement is not coalesced around one person, but rather is made up of many local groups) is innocent and not a single one of them would ever do anything violent, because that would be ridiculous. But there is a pattern of BLM appealing for calm amongst their own and condemning violence - that we did not see last night in Virginia after a man rammed a car into a peaceful protest.

And this is even before we get to people defending white supremacists who by their very name indicate that their goals are not peace or equality, but subjugation. Can't have racial supremacy of one race if everyone's treated equal now, can you?

Rightwing

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The media was worked hard to paint Obama as a "great guy", the Irish media in particular make me want to puke when they speak of him in glowing terms.

As one person put it to me recently, Obama was a talk the talk president instead of a walk the walk president.

Indeed.

The media are also going to extremes on Trump. Interesting times no doubt.

Christy42

Samaris wrote: »

Actually, the repeated slipping in of how BLM are just as bad as the KKK made me go read up on them more.

Further research indicates actually, no, they're not. While BLM have been involved in violent episodes, it was fairly rarely the protesters themselves. When one lone nut shot a group of police officers, BLM condemned the attack. When there were violent episodes at protests, it was a bit of a mixed bag as to who was responsible for the violence - including at least one occasion when five heavily armed and armoured counter-protesters showed up, shouted racial slurs and, when asked to go away, opened fire into the crowd. Yes. Very violent BLM right there. Ferguson was messy in the extreme, but that wasn't particularly organised violence, it was a riot in response to a emotionally-charged court case.

The vast majority have been peaceful protests. It is really quite remarkable how quickly and how repeatedly it's been drilled in and normalised in debate that the movement is a black KKK.

For anyone interested in what the truth actually is, don't take my word for it either, read up on it. Not saying every member of the movement (and bear in mind that the movement is not coalesced around one person, but rather is made up of many local groups) is innocent and not a single one of them would ever do anything violent, because that would be ridiculous. But there is a pattern of BLM appealing for calm amongst their own and condemning violence - that we did not see last night in Virginia after a man rammed a car into a peaceful protest.

And this is even before we get to people defending white supremacists who by their very name indicate that their goals are not peace or equality, but subjugation. Can't have racial supremacy of one race if everyone's treated equal now, can you?

Ah yes but you need to understand the idea is to take something not perfect and deciding it is as bad as whatever is happening on their side.

Why else have we had more discussion on BLM right after a white supremacist terrorist attack? Why else do we have so many posts discussing Obama's presidency in a thread about Trump's. Rightwing politics has been shown up as a complete failure this year and the only defense is to point out no one is perfect. Even while in power the right have taken up position as the hurley in the ditch.

Heck even the condemnations from Republicans against Trump's recent statement ring hollow. We knee he was a racist a year ago, they knew this about him. Yet somehow Trump is Obama's fault. Can't have anyone on the right having any of the blame for the failings of the right wing president now can we.

BillyBobBS

Samaris wrote: »

Actually, the repeated slipping in of how BLM are just as bad as the KKK made me go read up on them more.

Further research indicates actually, no, they're not. While BLM have been involved in violent episodes, it was fairly rarely the protesters themselves. When one lone nut shot a group of police officers, BLM condemned the attack. When there were violent episodes at protests, it was a bit of a mixed bag as to who was responsible for the violence - including at least one occasion when five heavily armed and armoured counter-protesters showed up, shouted racial slurs and, when asked to go away, opened fire into the crowd. Yes. Very violent BLM right there. Ferguson was messy in the extreme, but that wasn't particularly organised violence, it was a riot in response to a emotionally-charged court case.

The vast majority have been peaceful protests. It is really quite remarkable how quickly and how repeatedly it's been drilled in and normalised in debate that the movement is a black KKK.

For anyone interested in what the truth actually is, don't take my word for it either, read up on it. Not saying every member of the movement (and bear in mind that the movement is not coalesced around one person, but rather is made up of many local groups) is innocent and not a single one of them would ever do anything violent, because that would be ridiculous. But there is a pattern of BLM appealing for calm amongst their own and condemning violence - that we did not see last night in Virginia after a man rammed a car into a peaceful protest.

And this is even before we get to people defending white supremacists who by their very name indicate that their goals are not peace or equality, but subjugation. Can't have racial supremacy of one race if everyone's treated equal now, can you?

BLM has become a movement about instilling fear — sometimes in politicians, sometimes in “white people,” but mainly and most significantly in police.

Last year a gunman in Dallas opened fire on police at the end of a Black Lives Matter demonstration, killing five officers and wounding several others. Micah Johnson, the shooter, told a hostage negotiator that he was angry on behalf of Black Lives Matter and “wanted to kill white people, especially police officers.” Johnson’s Facebook page revealed an affinity for black nationalism, and he followed a Facebook group called the “African American Defense League,” which encouraged followers to “ATTACK EVERYTHING IN BLUE EXCEPT THE MAIL MAN” and “sprinkle Pigs Blood.”

Thing is BLM is responsible for how it reacts to events such as Dallas. And the response of many was not only dismissal — Johnetta Elzie, one of the movement’s founding activists, suggested that Dallas was a false-flag operation by the federal government :rolleyes: but it pushed the agitation to an even higher pitch. That is, after Dallas, the response of activists was to willfully create the conditions that make violence more likely, not less. When tensions were high perhaps as high as they have been since the movement began BLM opted to escalate the situation.

In short BLM are scum and no different than KKK or any other of these race hate groups.

Samaris

Christy42 wrote: »

Ah yes but you need to understand the idea is to take something not perfect and deciding it is as bad as whatever is happening on their side.

Why else have we had more discussion on BLM right after a white supremacist terrorist attack? Why else do we have so many posts discussing Obama's presidency in a thread about Trump's. Rightwing politics has been shown up as a complete failure this year and the only defense is to point out no one is perfect. Even while in power the right have taken up position as the hurley in the ditch.

Heck even the condemnations from Republicans against Trump's recent statement ring hollow. We knee he was a racist a year ago, they knew this about him. Yet somehow Trump is Obama's fault. Can't have anyone on the right having any of the blame for the failings of the right wing president now can we.

It's actually worse than just "no-one is perfect", it's downright lying to avoid having to have the guts to confront that there is a stream of poison in right-wing politics at the moment. Obama whataboutery? Come off it, man kept or reached compromise on over 75% of his campaign promises (keeping just under 50% outright), which is a hell of a "walking the walk" considering he had a deeply hostile Congress, members of which openly stated that their role was to stop him getting anything done. Trump has managed to fill a stolen Supreme Court placement and piss off most of the world.

And then there are people defending the KKK - and seriously, even on boards, I have seen someone arguing that the poor white guy was obviously startled and frightened by the big scary violent march some couple of hundred meters away (who were chanting, singing, walking along the road and strangely bereft of weapons) and doesn't deserve to be thought badly of merely because he happened to murder one and injure nineteen others driving into him. Apparently "it happens". What even the hell?

I just don't know what to say about the levels of goddamn delusion in the world at the moment.

Samaris

BillyBobBS wrote: »

BLM has become a movement about instilling fear — sometimes in politicians, sometimes in “white people,” but mainly and most significantly in police.

Last year a gunman in Dallas opened fire on police at the end of a Black Lives Matter demonstration, killing five officers and wounding several others. Micah Johnson, the shooter, told a hostage negotiator that he was angry on behalf of Black Lives Matter and “wanted to kill white people, especially police officers.” Johnson’s Facebook page revealed an affinity for black nationalism, and he followed a Facebook group called the “African American Defense League,” which encouraged followers to “ATTACK EVERYTHING IN BLUE EXCEPT THE MAIL MAN” and “sprinkle Pigs Blood.”

Thing is BLM is responsible for how it reacts to events such as Dallas. And the response of many was not only dismissal — Johnetta Elzie, one of the movement’s founding activists, suggested that Dallas was a false-flag operation by the federal government :rolleyes: but it pushed the agitation to an even higher pitch. That is, after Dallas, the response of activists was to willfully create the conditions that make violence more likely, not less. When tensions were high perhaps as high as they have been since the movement began BLM opted to escalate the situation.

In short BLM are scum and no different than KKK or any other of these race hate groups.

Well, it's funny you should say that, but various groups within BLM condemned that attack (you know, in the way that the scum from yesterday didn't) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/08/dallas-protest-shooting-organizers-black-lives-matter and pointed out that this had no place in society and no place within their movements either (It is worth noting that BLM is not a monolithic institution - it is a network of local groups that come together under that banner). By far the overall response was condemnation, and even sorrow for the officers whose lives were lost at a protest to condemn police shootings.

Escalating the situation? Scum as bad as the KKK? Did any of the grand high wizards or whatever they are condemn what happened yesterday in Virginia? Did any of the white supremacists there? Did any of them condemn when five armed and armoured men accosted a BLM protest shouting racial slurs and, when asked to leave, opened fire into the crowd? But it's BLM who are scum because one idiot called "false flag".


Edit: It is a little difficult to be 100% sure, but there is certainly no mention of BLM on African American Defense League's facebook page, nor does it look like they are actually involved with them.

Sonics2k

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The media was worked hard to paint Obama as a "great guy", the Irish media in particular make me want to puke when they speak of him in glowing terms.

As one person put it to me recently, Obama was a talk the talk president instead of a walk the walk president.

Nonsense, for eight years the right media, such as Fox and Breitbart had virtually daily attacks on Obama. Both of which pushed the whole nonsensical gibberish that was the Birther Movement.

Frequently both the left and right media had issues with Obamas use of drones overseas.

I'm no fan of the MSM, but this whole claim that the MSM always loved and backed Obama is an absolute joke.

Billy86

Really Interested wrote: »

You just making stuff up now.

It's the desperate 'but but but OBAMA!!!' stage that always briefly follows until they've been given a new message to pass on by Breitbart, Infowars, Russian trolls, etc. It's been known all along, but now we're seeing the outright defense of and attempts to deflect from and ignore neo Nazi and white supremacist terrorism in the US.

Trump has harvested this over time. Let's not forget just last week he was failing to comment on a mosque being bombed in Minnesota which I would bet a good few here didn't even hear about, and he was the same when a white supremacist follower of his murdered a mosque in Quebec. And the GOP are not much better, having been dog whistling and albeit in a more subtle manner, pandering to these types for most of the last decade.

Wanderer78

BillyBobBS wrote:

The only principle Obama stood by was appearing on late night chat shows doing comedy sketches whilst the likes of ISIS gathered and Kim Fat perfected his nuclear arsenal. Obama was a complete disaster.

Don't worry, trump is gonna be much much worse

Peregrinus

BillyBobBS wrote: »

As one person put it to me recently, Obama was a talk the talk president instead of a walk the walk president.

And are you happy now that you have a whinge the whinge toddler for president?

Billy86

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Don't worry, trump is gonna be much much worse

Trump, if not already before this weekend, has already firmly cemented himself as the worst president in US history by now - and we're not even seven months in.

RustyNut

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The only principle Obama stood by was appearing on late night chat shows doing comedy sketches whilst the likes of ISIS gathered and Kim Fat perfected his nuclear arsenal. Obama was a complete disaster.

That's one more principal than trump has. He changes his principals about as often as he changes his staff.

Peregrinus

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The only principle Obama stood by was appearing on late night chat shows doing comedy sketches whilst the likes of ISIS gathered and Kim Fat perfected his nuclear arsenal. Obama was a complete disaster.

However badly you think Obama handled North Korea, it's undeniable that Trump has been much, much worse. We are where we are right now because the US has elected a president who is as vain, stupid and insecure as Kim. (And, since you mention it, as fat as him too.) He has absolutely no understanding of the position he is in, and no clue what to do about it.

ThisRegard

Rightwing wrote: »

Indeed.

The media are also going to extremes on Trump. Interesting times no doubt.

Trump is Trump, the media are simply reporting the facts of the man and his own words and actions. Didn't someone around here only recently say a fact is a fact?

You'd have to be extraordinary dumb to argue against that.

Itssoeasy

I'm just watching what happened in Charlottesville from yesterday and heard trumps fudge job of a statement which is laughable. I see David duke on camera mentioned trump and seems to think they are carrying out stuff that trump stands for.

Samaris

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The only principle Obama stood by was appearing on late night chat shows doing comedy sketches whilst the likes of ISIS gathered and Kim Fat perfected his nuclear arsenal. Obama was a complete disaster.

That and all the principles that lead to keeping (including reaching compromise on) the vast majority of his campaign promises through hard bloody work against a hostile Congress.

I mean, you may not like what he accomplished, but don't lie about that he actually accomplished them.

BillyBobBS

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Don't worry, trump is gonna be much much worse

Thus far he is doing an excellent job. Time will tell.

Christy42

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Thus far he is doing an excellent job. Time will tell.

Care to back this up? Really I have asked peoppe repeatedly. Which of his policies do you agree with? Do you think the current contradictions between him and Tillerson are good for foreign policy? What do you think of the various health care acts he has supported?

Nody

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Thus far he is doing an excellent job. Time will tell.

You mean his replacement of the healthcare bill (a.k.a. Obama care)? Or the construction of the wall towards Mexico that they are going to pay for? Or perhaps de-escalation of war with North Korea? Improving the relations with Russia? Bringing manufacturing jobs back to USA? Reviving coal mines? Draining the swamp by hiring Wall Street execs and reducing the laws that caused the 2008 financial crisis? Pulling out of Nafta? Punishing China for currency manipulation? Being in the office all the time due to being to busy to golf? Prosecuting Hillary?

Please do share how he's doing on all those promises since he's doing such an excellent job please.

jooksavage

As long as Trump isn't black or a woman or promoting racial and religious tolerance or acknowledging sexism in society he's going to be doing an excellent job in some people's eyes.