Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Bluefoam

oscarBravo wrote: »

Tony Schwartz (the actual writer of Art of the Deal, to his eternal regret) thinks Trump will quit.

He's been saying that for a couple of months now... Trump can't resign, he needs to retain the ability to pardon himself...

JohnFalstaff

Bluefoam wrote: »

He's been saying that for a couple of months now... Trump can't resign, he needs to retain the ability to pardon himself...

The gist of the article is that the net is closing in and Trump will resign in exchange for immunity. Although I agree that Schwarz has been saying that for the last few months.

Leroy42

Bluefoam wrote: »

He's been saying that for a couple of months now... Trump can't resign, he needs to retain the ability to pardon himself...

Not strictly true, but I know what you mean.

However, I don't believe he will quit as what is the advantage to that? He will only lose out.

He will lose out on millions due to Mar-de-lago. Trump properties in Washington will no longer be used by foreign dignatories. Ivanka will no longer have her seat at the top table for brand building.

And for what? At the moment he has many believing him that its all everyones elses fault. MSM, HC, Dems, McCain, McConnell, Obama, deep state, China, Mexico. If he quits he is accepting that he can not do it. Whilst that may sound good in the short term he knows that he paints him as the ultimate loser. No way HC would have quit. Obama lasted the full 8 years.


I do think, however, that his POTUS is effectively finished. He has no power, no allies, has shown no ability to get anything done and things are getting worse. The veterans have come out against him. The different strands of the military have condemned his stance on both KKK and the transgender announcement. He has no overriding ideaology that would drive him in the dark times. Winning in the only goal and that is a very unfocused target to keep you going. He will find it increasingly difficult to get people on his side. He lost a couple of GOP senators in the ACA vote. What possible reason would they, or others, have to stick with him going forward?

Its not the Dems he has to worry about, rather the GOP and in particular Pence. GOP know that Pence could get pretty much everything that they want through. He would be able to carry the others with him in a way that Trump simply can't.

My current idea is that the GOP will offer him a deal. Stay on and simply act out what they tell him to do, but continue to enjoy his golf breaks, his Mar-a-Lago trips, Ivanka and Jared can stay on. Trump hotels can still be used etc.

Or resign and lose everything. Ivanka and Jared kicked out. Trump shown to be a quitter. Possible investigations into conflicts of interests. Continued investigation of Trump Jr for collusion.

Many people like to think that Trump is stupid, I think in part because he makes his actions and words easier to understand. But he is not stupid and he will pick the option that gives him the best outcome

Pelvis

Why would he be given immunity just for resigning? If he's guilty he'd be impeached surely?

Would presume he'd only be given immunity if he can give up some bigger fishes?

JohnFalstaff

Pelvis wrote: »

Why would he be given immunity just for resigning? If he's guilty he'd be impeached surely?

Would presume he'd only be given immunity if he can give up some bigger fishes?

When Nixon was facing certain impeachment he resigned with the knowledge that he would be subsequently pardoned. That's the way it has worked in the past and I wouldn't be sure that anyone in the current US political system has the stomach to put a sitting US president behind bars. Bad for business, as they say. I'd say they'd he happy to be rid of him and move on to the next guy.

InTheTrees

aloyisious wrote: »

I've been wondering lately if he's ever taken a look at what other presidents, or been advised of, have done in terms of getting legislation passed and if he's thought "how did they manage it?" given his failures to date.

Honestly I really don't think he knows the first thing about how government works.

He doesn't seem to understand basic stuff like how laws are made. Simple high school civics seems to be far beyond him.

And he doesn't show any interest in learning either, no doubt because he feels he knows it all anyway.

The world must be a random and confusing place for such a personality.

Akrasia

Bluefoam wrote: »

He's been saying that for a couple of months now... Trump can't resign, he needs to retain the ability to pardon himself...

He can't pardon himself for crimes that he is impeached for

Article II, section 2 of America’s constitution says presidents “shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”

If he pardons himself and resigns before he is impeached, then he might be able to escape Jail, or he can resign and hope that Pence pardons him of anything Mueller manages to dig up

I would hope that Pence will refuse him a pardon, but this is Mike Pence we're talking about.

For Reals

I predicted he'd quit by Christmas and blame Washington for being too corrupt or unwilling to bend.
I still believe that may be the most likely option.
His shutting down of the business council and his reasoning behind it could be a sign of bigger things to come.
The man is a dangerous, embarrassing brat, but he holds his ego in the highest regard.

Leroy42

InTheTrees wrote: »

Honestly I really don't think he knows the first thing about how government works.

He doesn't seem to understand basic stuff like how laws are made. Simple high school civics seems to be far beyond him.

And he doesn't show any interest in learning either, no doubt because he feels he knows it all anyway.

The world must be a random and confusing place for such a personality.

Again, this seems to be suggesting either lack of intellect of lack of interest is the root cause. If only someone could teach him then everything would be ok.

I don't think so. I think he is all to well aware of how things work. He is well versed in how to get to the people he needs for money, permits etc etc. I think in reality he simply wants to get rid of those norms to make his own life easier. His tweets about senate voting rules for example. People mock them for the error of claiming they need to go back to simply majority, when in fact what he is floating is how open people would be to changing the rules. If they are prepared to continence a chance then is only requires some talking to get them to agree to pretty much any level of votes.

He likes to claim that he doesn't know of, or understand, when things go wrong. Like in the case of Trump university that he wasn't aware of the faults. But we are also supposed to believe that he is the driving force behind the business. That he is involved in everything. That he knows the best people, the best ideas, that he knows how to get things done.

This narrative that he is stupid, along with the parallel line that Ivanka is somehow a moderate, is based on nothing more than wishful thinking as to accept that the man that was voted in as POTUS is a racist, a bully etc etc and that Ivanka is, well we really know nothing about her at all either way. It based on the hope that deep down, if people only knew the facts, that all people are good and are interested in the good of others. To face the facts that despite an expensive education, extensive advisors a person can still come out with his views is difficult to entertain

Blowfish

For Reals wrote: »

His shutting down of the business council and his reasoning behind it could be a sign of bigger things to come.

Actually, he didn't disband it, they had already decided to end it, but Trump being Trump, tried to claim the credit so he didn't look so bad.

For Reals

Blowfish wrote: »

Actually, he didn't disband it, they had already decided to end it, but Trump being Trump, tried to claim the credit so he didn't look so bad.

That's the point. He'll jump before he's pushed, if it looks that way.
CEOs dropped out made it unworkable and he 'chose' to shut it down.

Royal Legend

Blowfish wrote: »

Actually, he didn't disband it, they had already decided to end it, but Trump being Trump, tried to claim the credit so he didn't look so bad.

No doubt these people resigned for purely selfish and financial reasons, probably more afraid that negative publicity would affect their companies share price.

Ozymandius2011

Royal Legend wrote: »

No doubt these people resigned for purely selfish and financial reasons, probably more afraid that negative publicity would affect their companies share price.

Well 3 had already resigned before Charlottesville.

I just think theres a double standard. Liberals say "dont rush to judgement" when its Islamic terrorism. They tell Trump to rush out statements when its White Supremacist terrorism.

ThisRegard

Royal Legend wrote: »

No doubt these people resigned for purely selfish and financial reasons, probably more afraid that negative publicity would affect their companies share price.

Or you know, principles.

Samaris

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Well 3 had already resigned before Charlottesville.

I just think theres a double standard. Liberals say "dont rush to judgement" when its Islamic terrorism. They tell Trump to rush out statements when its White Supremacist terrorism.

Just to be clear, liberals say "don't rush to judgement" when the facts aren't known. And they often add to morons who say things like "and this is why all Muslims should be thrown out/sent back where they came from" with something along the lines that it is a tiny minority of Muslims that are involved in any way with ISIS or its ilk. I generally see people condemning the people involved and their evil ideology of fundamentalism as well - just they manage to avoid tarring all people of a very large world religion with the same brush.

Decent people say "make a goddamn clear statement condemning this" when it was absolutely clearly known who did it, why he did it and it was all caught on video.

Now if you want a double standard, how many white supremacist attacks have there been in the USA in 2017? How many did you hear about? How many were discussed on boards for more than two pages? How many were barely noted in newspapers? Compare that to how much attention Islamic terrorism (rightly) receives. As a side-note, I did not know that there had been so many, because it doesn't get much coverage and it rarely catches attention enough to stay in peoples minds and in the media.

Now that is a double standard.

aloyisious

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Well 3 had already resigned before Charlottesville.

I just think theres a double standard. Liberals say "dont rush to judgement" when its Islamic terrorism. They tell Trump to rush out statements when its White Supremacist terrorism.

Of course there is a double standard. Islamic terrorism [acts intended to terrorize people] is un-american. White Supremacist terrorism [acts intended to terrorize people] on the other hand is "clearly" not the same and is seen as nationalistic and historic by some US citizens. The fact that both brands of terrorism are based on hatred is an inconvenient truth ignored by other US citizens. Both brands kill innocent people.

ThisRegard

He was quick out of the blocks today condemning the terror attacks. He must have the full facts already because as we know he doesn't comment until he knows everything.

And guess what he's advocating for here

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/898254409511129088

https://twitter.com/ezlusztig/status/898256839749414912?s=09

Click on the tweet to get the full text of what he said.

https://twitter.com/gato_danger/status/898257596456378368?s=09

BabyCheeses

ThisRegard wrote: »

He was quick out of the blocks today condemning the terror attacks. He must have the full facts already because as we know he doesn't comment until he knows everything.

And guess what he's advocating for here

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/898254409511129088

https://twitter.com/ezlusztig/status/898256839749414912?s=09

Click on the tweet to get the full text of what he said.

https://twitter.com/gato_danger/status/898257596456378368?s=09

That was quicker than I was expecting, surprising how quickly the freedom advocates have switched their positions today.

Itssoeasy

Donald trump like all world leaders should condemn the horrible acts carried out in barcelona this evening carried out in the name of Islam or at least its claimed by ISIS.

My issue is why can't he condemn the terrorist acts carried out in Charlottesville last weekend ? And get it right the first time ?

It would be a stupid thing to say after Charlottesville that all white male Christians in the USA are neo nazis and a white supremacists. And just like the attacks carried out mostly muslims being blamed for ISIS which is obviously as stupid as the Charlottesville situation.

BalcombeSt4

Whats surprising to me is that people seem to be surprised that a man who was inspired by Mussolini & General Pinochet would act & sound in a way similar to a fascist racist & would fill his cabinet with far-right dregs of society.

Professor Moriarty

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Whats surprising to me is that people seem to be surprised that a man who was inspired by Mussolini & General Pinochet would act & sound in a way similar to fascist racist & would fill his cabinet far-right dregs of society.

I don't think that people are surprised by Trump. What surprises is that he continues to get away with his behaviour.

BalcombeSt4

BabyCheeses wrote: »

That was quicker than I was expecting, surprising how quickly the freedom advocates have switched their positions today.

The so called "freeom advocates" were not advocating burying neo-Nazis & KKK's family members with pigs after shooting them with pigs blood stained bullets. Normal people (means your ilk are excluded) would expect the President of the USA to condenm both the Nazis & the Terrorists, it's not hard.

BalcombeSt4

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I don't think that people are surprised by Trump. What surprises is that he continues to get away with his behaviour.

Until he starts loosing the backing of big corporations & lobby groups like AIPAC he can do pretty much what ever he wants.

Itssoeasy

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Until he starts loosing the backing of big corporations & lobby groups like AIPAC he can do pretty much what ever he wants.

But in trumps mind the fact that the CEOs of major companies resigned because of his comments isn't his fault.in his mind his statement was fine and it's they are the problem. Nothing that Donald trump has ever gotten wrong was his fault, it was because of someone else or at least that's what trump thinks.

I don't know how his son in law, daughter think about him not condemning the people who caused the death of a woman last weekend ? I ask that because they are of the Jewish faith which the gentlemen last weekend aren't fans of.

BabyCheeses

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

The so called "freeom advocates" were not advocating burying neo-Nazis & KKK's family members with pigs after shooting them with pigs blood stained bullets. Normal people (means your ilk are excluded) would expect the President of the USA to condenm both the Nazis & the Terrorists, it's not hard.

I was talking about the both sides were wrong folks who are all of a sudden talking about how terrible Muslims are. The type who refer to those killed or injured today as being "merkeled" after trying to downplay Nazis killing people all weekend.

It's pretty obvious based on my previous comments I'm not one of the terrorist apologists.

Blue Magic

What's most hard to predict for me is what will actually get this guy impeached or force him into resignation?

Literally anyone's guess

froog

The Dow took a big drop today. The market is finally realizing trump is good for absolutely nothing. The entirely coincidental strong performance of the economy the last few months is running out of steam. The annual debt ceiling standoff is coming soon too, if Obama almost let the US default imagine how badly Trump will **** it up.

He will resign before the year is out, mark my words.

_Kaiser_

froog wrote: »

The Dow took a big drop today. The market is finally realizing trump is good for absolutely nothing. The entirely coincidental strong performance of the economy the last few months is running out of steam. The annual debt ceiling standoff is coming soon too, if Obama almost let the US default imagine how badly Trump will **** it up.

He will resign before the year is out, mark my words.

The guy who co-wrote Trump's memoirs would seem to agree with you :

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59952d91e4b06ef724d64fd6

Donald Trump’s Art of the Deal co-author Tony Schwartz is predicting that the president is getting ready to call it quits ― and that the resignation will happen soon

In followup tweets in response to questions, Schwartz predicted Trump would make a deal for immunity in the Russia investigation in exchange for his resignation.

Peregrinus

Hector Savage wrote: »

What terrorist incidents ?

These ones.

aloyisious

The NYT has a report of the DOJ being granted a warrant by a judge in Washington for a search of DreamHost, an LA Internet hosting Co. The Co hosts disruptj20.org, a site set up to protest Don's inauguration Day event last Jan. The DOJ said it wants info in relation to assaults and violence in Washington that day. The extent of data the DOJ wants from DreamHost is what's is of interest and would affect 1st amendment constitutional rights if the info gained was used broadsweep, as the DOJ wanted ALL records and Information relating to the site, which got a lot of visits over 6 days. Those records include personal information like I.P. addresses, which identify a specific computer; data about which of the site’s pages a user viewed, and when; and the type of operating software on that person’s computer. Federal prosecutors are also seeking all emails, photos and other content sent to and from the site.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/justice-department-dreamhost-site-trump.html

Frank Bullitt

Reports that Bannon won't last the weekend. He didn't fly to Camp David with Trump or his team.

High ol turnover at the Whitehouse this year.

dudara

According to Bloomberg, Bannon is out.

Now the real question is, did Bannon resign or did Trump fire him?

ThisRegard

There's been pressure from some GOP members on Trump to fire Bannon since the weekend. When Trump said something along the lines about we'll see about Bannon the writing was on the wall really.

It'll be interesting to see the reasons given for it though, Trump has apparently fired him opposed to him resigning.

InTheTrees

Fascinating.
Now will bannon retreat to the safety of Breitbart to cause trouble or will he continue to be an administration ally?

ThisRegard

Well from some quarters he's been made out to be one of the biggest leakers in the White House, Scaramucci has also apparently claimed this.

If he's being made a scapegoat he most certainly will be out to cause trouble for Trump.

Jayop

Bannon calling the Nazi's clowns and losers was just a step too far for trump. Can't be insulting the base like that.

Samaris

Yeah, Bannon's card was marked for the last few months. Doubt Trump ever really forgave him for Time's The Great Manipulator, and the recent book giving (gasp and vapours!) Bannon equal billing with His Majesty was just not to be born. Then there was the interview. Also, Bannon's a wild card with his own agenda and if that agenda clashed with Trump's...I don't think Trump's would win. Man's a colossal dick, but he's a dick with a mind of his own and that sort of thing cannot be tolerated.

Besides, Bannon has few allies there these days. There's Gorka and Miller, but Miller's doing pretty well on his own account and Gorka appears to be doing okay too, for a given value of "able to lie his ass off for the President".

Akrasia

Can't say I'm sorry to see him go. Miller is comic book villain-esq and so is Gorka. Hopefully they'll be gone soon too.

Beechwoodspark

Predicted it a few days ago on here.

Why didn't i put a few quid on it ?!?!

Samaris

Ah, it was Hope Hicks that was the third Bannon-lackey that came along, wasn't it? Well, she's got Communications now, so ..interesting that all three have done well under Trump so far, but Bannon was the one that Trump couldn't cope with.

Maybe because the other three were followers willing to transfer allegiance whereas Bannon was always going to be a potential threat.

Edit: Official line is that Kelly and Bannon "mutually agreed" that today would be Bannon's last in the WH. Trump contradiction in 3, 2...

super_furry

With Bannon gone, there's an opening for David Duke now.

Samaris

super_furry wrote: »

With Bannon gone, there's an opening for David Duke now.

..It's bloody terrifying that I can't quite dismiss that out of hand.

For Forks Sake

Anyone giving odds on how long more for Miller and Gorka I wonder?

Rjd2

Breitbart will wage war on Trump for the next few months which will be hilarious. Ignoring political pov's the fact Breitbart were hitting members in the Trump cabinet with I assume would be Bannon's permission should have meant to he was gone months ago.

I think this is Kelly trying to move Trump away from that sort of alt right base and into a generic Republican, if he manages that, he deserves a rise:p

Rjd2

https://twitter.com/joelpollak/status/898595085247324161

Yeah they are reacting as expected.

BabyCheeses

Jayop wrote: »

Bannon calling the Nazi's clowns and losers was just a step too far for trump. Can't be insulting the base like that.

Bold move cotton, he annoyed Trump and his own readership with that one.

Samaris

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/joelpollak/status/898595085247324161

Yeah they are reacting as expected.

Anyone for popcorn?

Jayop

Dis gunna be gud

So to speak

Itssoeasy

Ah poor Steve. Hopefully mr miller and mr gorka aren't far behind. Also kellyanne Conway can't be that safe and she's gone very quiet lately.

everlast75

Can someone explain the strategy behind Bannon having that recent "off the record" chat with the journalist please?