Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Meltdown

Peregrinus

Unhinged, possibly. A meltdown, not so much; he's just reverting to form.

His speech on Afghanistan yesterday was reasonably well received. It's his invariable practice, when he has been cajoled by his saner advisers into saying or doing something at least semi-credible, to reward himself for the enormous effort involved by relaxing and kicking back with a nice, refreshing, self-pitying whinge about how unfair the world is to poor Donald.

On the plus side, Trump's decision to continue making enemies of everybody whose co-operation he needs does mean that he will continue to be completely ineffectual, and his presidency will be much less damaging to his country and to the world than it would be if he could actually get anything done.

Samaris

There's been a few reports from people who worked with him that Trump likes to play off various factions under him - individuals in the case of his businesses. We've seen as much from the factions in the White House too, which Trump has done very little to calm down and often inflamed by attacks on various people.

If this is his style of management, is this exactly how he's playing the country? He has "his" preferred faction and he keeps playing it off everyone else. "I only lost by three" he said about the healthcare vote. No, he lost by three plus all of the Democratic members votes. There was his son (who is, admittedly, a nitwit) saying that Democrats are animals, I think it was. I am fairly sure that Trump made some comment that implied he was president for his supporters as well. And a bloody presidential campaign rally for an election three and a half years away in Arizona right now is just daft.

All of this plays into igniting the tense situation over there. Question is whether he's doing it on purpose and shouldn't be trusted running a whelk stall or whether he is just dim (and shouldn't be trusted running a whelk stall.)

everlast75

I loved how he re-read his speech on Charlottesville to prove how the media is fake and then left out the "on many sides" comment...

Firefox11

Former director of National Intelligence James Clapper calls Trump speech 'downright scary and disturbing'


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/23/politics/james-clapper-trump-phoenix-rally-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html

VinLieger

everlast75 wrote: »

I loved how he re-read his speech on Charlottesville to prove how the media is fake and then left out the "on many sides" comment...

Cus the "on many sides" remark was off the cuff, im assuming conveniently the print out was the scripted speech without his many additions to it

ThisRegard

Don Lemon on CNN had a great follow up immediately after Tump's 'speech'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnsebGIFsWg

Nody

Firefox11 wrote: »

Former director of National Intelligence James Clapper calls Trump speech 'downright scary and disturbing'


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/23/politics/james-clapper-trump-phoenix-rally-don-lemon-cnntv/index.html

And to put James Clapper in perspective he was appointed by Bush Senior as Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and later as Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence appointed by Bush junior so this is not your average political appointed democratic puppet who's calling out Trump as unsuitable as president.

Saruhashi

Itssoeasy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My99imFzeWw

These are some of the fine people that donald trump didn't condemn fully.

Wow. Look at the absolute state of them.

If the numbers are right here there are only around 8,000 KKK members in the US, spread over 130 chapters in 22 states.

On average, that's 61 people per chapter and less than half of the states in the US even have a KKK group.

With that in mind is it actually in anyone's interests for the President to specifically call out these people by name?

Feels like a shout out from the President lends them an air of credibility that they do not deserve.

8,000 people out of a country of 320,000,000 should not be deserving of this massive "boogeyman" image that they have.

Look at these eejits dancing around the fire in their robes. There must be about 20 to 30 of them there dancing about in the woods in the middle of nowhere. These sad little people are not a threat to anyone. They should be treated with the contempt they deserve not built up as some huge and powerful entity that can threaten a nation. They are pathetic.

I'd rather people demanded that Trump call out White Supremacy or White Nationalism as dangerous and delusional ideologies rather than demand he mention the KKK by name.

After seeing that video I would rather that Trump hadn't mentioned them specifically as I am sure it would do more to embolden them that it would to make them think they are the bad guys here.

Jayop

I'd imagine there's less than 8000 Islamic terrorists living in the states but they get called out regularly.

Saruhashi

Jayop wrote: »

I'd imagine there's less than 8000 Islamic terrorists living in the states but they get called out regularly.

Yeah, I'd take issue with that too (from an American perspective). Don't they have larger issues with "white" domestic terrorists than they do with Islamic terror?

Even worse, in the case of Islamic terror they tend to draw regular Muslims into taking some of the blame for a very small amount of terrible people.

Water John

The victim of Charlottsville was not Trump. She was called Heather Heyer.

Itssoeasy

I've not seen the full "speech" from last night in Arizona but i've seen clips of things the president said. You know just when you think that donald trump will let you down and start acting presidential for two days in a row, he just keeps hitting a home run and blatantly lying about comments he made on saturday.

20Cent

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've not seen the full "speech" from last night in Arizona but i've seen clips of things the president said. You know just when you think that donald trump will let you down and start acting presidential for two days in a row, he just keeps hitting a home run and blatantly lying about comments he made on saturday.

I'm 30 minutes into it and he is just talking about himself and slagging the media for all of it so far. It really is a bizarre rant. Totally believe it is all to protect himself when upcoming scandals come out and his followers won't believe the media. The president should be above all this, whinging about his coverage.

dfx-

It was extraordinarily incoherent, full of irrelevant defensive asides and outright lies. I was watching live on CNN say that CNN had turned off the live coverage. Detached from reality stuff. He summoned General Kelly to the podium who refused...

Best of all, he was boasting about clean coal which he said was where they come and dig the coal and clean it up apparently. :eek:

Manic Moran

I honestly wonder if this sort of thing is something that the white house doc can get involved with. "Medically unfit for position" or some such?

Kelley needs to get the Secret Service to sit on him. "No, Mr President. You can't go to talk about this..."

Jayop

Manic Moran wrote: »

I honestly wonder if this sort of thing is something that the white house doc can get involved with. "Medically unfit for position" or some such?

Kelley needs to get the Secret Service to sit on him. "No, Mr President. You can't go to talk about this..."

I'm trying to remember but I think the VP and others from his executive branch have to deem that to be the case and then congress votes on it. That ain't going to happen.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

A reminder that this is an anonymous forum so please don't ask other posters to volunteer information about themselves. Nor, indeed, should such information be relevant to the issues at hand.

Itssoeasy

Jayop wrote: »

I'm trying to remember but I think the VP and others from his executive branch have to deem that to be the case and then congress votes on it. That ain't going to happen.

The VP and a majority of the officers(cabinet) have to sign a letter saying they feel the president is unfit to carry out the duties of the office. He is then removed from office and the VP becomes acting president. The president then has so many days to reply stating he is fit for office and is then reinstated, and the VP and cabinet can then state the same as above and then it goes to the full congress to vote on within 21 days if not in session or 10 days if in session.

That's off the top of my head and I might have gotten days in the wrong place.

Jayop

Yeah looked it up and it's pretty spot on. Given the cabinet are a bunch of patsys that just recently sat around a table verbally blowing Trump off I don't think there's much chance of that happening.

Itssoeasy

Jayop wrote: »

Yeah looked it up and it's pretty spot on. Given the cabinet are a bunch of patsys that just recently sat around a table verbally blowing Trump off I don't think there's much chance of that happening.

I really need to find something better to do with my free time on weekends.:D

Blowfish

Manic Moran wrote: »

Kelley needs to get the Secret Service to sit on him. "No, Mr President. You can't go to talk about this..."

I honestly think they've already tried that, hence why he said he 'couldn't name names' but then went on to give out about the 2 Arizona senators.

Water John

I presume Gen Kelly is a retired General. Serving Generals would not be able to take part, as this meeting was part of a reelection campaign, IWT?

whiteknight12

Pretty pathetic how swept up we get in the media scrum! The chap was democratically elected and lads losing their shirt finding ways to get him ousted. What did Obama ever do? Build a Supermacs on the way to Limerick😔

ThisRegard

whiteknight12 wrote: »

Pretty pathetic how swept up we get in the media scrum! The chap was democratically elected and lads losing their shirt finding ways to get him ousted. What did Obama ever do? Build a Supermacs on the way to Limerick😔

Another stooge believing it was media who made Trump say everything he said.

Water John

Want to get past, look over there at Obama/Clinton, at this stage.
Simple concern is POTUS is a blightering idiot.

12 posts in 4 years, and this is your contribution. They say it's the quiet ones, you need to watch.

MadYaker

It was bizarre at best and downright insane at worst. His aides need to find a way to stop him going off the rails like that, boasting about how nice his apartment in New York is and about how he lives in the White House, mad stuff. I never in my life thought I'd see a president behaving like that, he sounded like a spoilt teenager.

martingriff

Water John wrote: »

Want to get past, look over there at Obama/Clinton, at this stage.
Simple concern is POTUS is a blightering idiot.

12 posts in 4 years, and this is your contribution. They say it's the quiet ones, you need to watch.

Is this the American version of its all Fina Fail fault that got old pretty fast 2

johnnyskeleton

whiteknight12 wrote: »

Pretty pathetic how swept up we get in the media scrum! The chap was democratically elected and lads losing their shirt finding ways to get him ousted. What did Obama ever do? Build a Supermacs on the way to Limerick��

Mod note:

Serious contributions only please.

Water John wrote: »

12 posts in 4 years, and this is your contribution. They say it's the quiet ones, you need to watch.

Mod note:

Please be civil to other posters. Attack the post not the poster.

everlast75

Science enjoy quits.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/347644-state-dept-science-envoy-resigns?amp


Each of the letters starting the paragraphs spell impeach...

Jayop

Giving up a 21 year career takes balls.

martingriff

I know I have said this countless times but my bet on Trump not lasting a full term is getting better and better by the day

Manic Moran

He does seem to be going on a sort of Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde thing, doesn't he? Bay area news radio station saying "Today in Reno, President Trump gave a speech which could have been given by any of his predecessors, a change from yesterday..."

aloyisious

It's a Don "fake news" offensive, snow the audience so they can't see he's all talk and no content, people, incl me, giving him free time and publicity space irritates me, even now. He's a "no news is bad news" opportunist. Without twitter he'd be lost, airtime without the need to answer questions from the floor. Hopefully the US shareholders will hold him to account when the AGM is held. He's got the media over a barrell unfortunately, not reporting on what he says gives him the right to claim he's being ignored, as against giving him free time and space to lie to the public, a hell of a puzzle.

Samaris

aloyisious wrote: »

It's a Don "fake news" offensive, snow the audience so they can't see he's all talk and no content, people, incl me, giving him free time and publicity space irritates me, even now. He's a "no news is bad news" opportunist. Without twitter he'd be lost, airtime without the need to answer questions from the floor. Hopefully the US shareholders will hold him to account when the AGM is held. He's got the media over a barrell unfortunately, not reporting on what he says gives him the right to claim he's being ignored, as against giving him free time and space to lie to the public, a hell of a puzzle.

Problem is that it barely matters what the media says because there are several stations that are gleefully informing their captive audience of a lot of lies. Sure, they shouldn't count as "captive", but they've been conditioned to believe that the "mainstream media" (i.e. the media that works on a consensus of goddam reality) are all lying to them and part of a huge conspiracy against their Dear Leader. Trump himself only gets cherry-picked bits of info to imply that he's dearly beloved, anyone who disagrees with him is lying and look, Tucker Carlson agrees so it must be true. He has no real read of the country, only his most loyal support base, and he's even damaging that because he keeps going back to relive his glory days of ten months ago and even his supporters are getting a bit "come on, but now what?"

Yet, even some of his own stations are starting to find they can't support him through everything. A few Fox media people have publically disagreed or expressed shock or horror at something he's done (mostly over Charlottesville) and I don't think Trump really knew what Bannon had in mind in returning to Breitbart although he's stayed suspiciously quiet on Breitbart hit articles released since Bannon's departure. If Breitbart play it well, they probably can claim McMaster's scalp by praising up Trump and keeping slating McMaster (His McMaster's Call was a good one), but I think Bannon's outspokenness will play against him in the long run.

Mind you, tolerance for bat**** crazy has held up. People are sick of him, true, but seven months of anger and anger is only increasing rather than dropping off due to boredom or fatigue.

aloyisious

I took a look at Arizona papers to see what the view of Don's speech was locally and found an unfortunate coincidence when a TV channel presenter & crew showed up at a Confederate memorial in Phoenix after dark to cover what was reported by them of vandalism of the memorial. They didn't realise that the memorial was covered by a security camera and it's footage was subsequently released showing a different state of affairs re the timing of the vandalism and their discovery of it. It seem's to have been a piece of "creative" reporting, aka "fake news", which falls as a gift into the lap of Don & others to bash the media.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjXiNLgwe_VAhUDOsAKHQg5DiwQFgglMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azcentral.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fphoenix-breaking%2F2017%2F08%2F17%2F2-confederate-monuments-vandalized-arizona%2F576884001%2F&usg=AFQjCNHuiYzqO-xSGuWAr4nqmAM8Yvn27w

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjXiNLgwe_VAhUDOsAKHQg5DiwQqOcBCDIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixnewtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fvideo-contradicts-channel-12-report-on-confederate-memorial-vandalism-9621173&usg=AFQjCNGn8sfKtvHxcyM_-1NW14_VWWVd_A

Hande hoche!

everlast75 wrote: »

Science enjoy quits.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/347644-state-dept-science-envoy-resigns?amp


Each of the letters starting the paragraphs spell impeach...

Quite passive aggressive. Reminds me of the art council resignation which had resist as its "secret" message.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-arts-committee-members-resign-charlottesville-protest-kal-penn-letter-a7901211.html

jem

People need to ignore the majority of stuff that trump says and worry about him either:
throwing a hissy fit against some country and causing a serious war that spreads and spreads.
Or
he says/does something realy stupid on race and sets off real face war in USA that leads to a military state of emergency.

Akrasia

jem wrote: »

People need to ignore the majority of stuff that trump says and worry about him either:
throwing a hissy fit against some country and causing a serious war that spreads and spreads.
Or
he says/does something realy stupid on race and sets off real face war in USA that leads to a military state of emergency.

The biggest threat from Trump is that he is overseeing the dismantlement of all environmental regulation, and it will take years to undo the damage he is doing now.

Climate change is very time sensitive, every year we waste makes avoiding tipping points more difficult. By having the USA actively promoting oil gas and coal when they should be leading the world in moving to renewable and investing in R&D to make the clean technology more efficient, Trump is likely to cost the lives of millions of people in future natural disasters, displacements, heatwaves and conflicts.

It's not just Trump who is doing this though, it's the republican party who are an absolute disgrace in their willingness to destroy the future in order to protect the economic interests of themselves and their donors.

The next time you hear some republican talk about the national debt being unfair to future generations, remember that the cost of every barrel of oil they sell is going to be paid by future generations.

20Cent

aloyisious wrote: »

I took a look at Arizona papers to see what the view of Don's speech was locally and found an unfortunate coincidence when a TV channel presenter & crew showed up at a Confederate memorial in Phoenix after dark to cover what was reported by them of vandalism of the memorial. They didn't realise that the memorial was covered by a security camera and it's footage was subsequently released showing a different state of affairs re the timing of the vandalism and their discovery of it. It seem's to have been a piece of "creative" reporting, aka "fake news", which falls as a gift into the lap of Don & others to bash the media.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjXiNLgwe_VAhUDOsAKHQg5DiwQFgglMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azcentral.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fphoenix-breaking%2F2017%2F08%2F17%2F2-confederate-monuments-vandalized-arizona%2F576884001%2F&usg=AFQjCNHuiYzqO-xSGuWAr4nqmAM8Yvn27w

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjXiNLgwe_VAhUDOsAKHQg5DiwQqOcBCDIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixnewtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fvideo-contradicts-channel-12-report-on-confederate-memorial-vandalism-9621173&usg=AFQjCNGn8sfKtvHxcyM_-1NW14_VWWVd_A

Monetizing hate is probably the most disgusting development recently. Load of media and youtube people cashing in by stirring hatred.

Rjd2

everlast75 wrote: »

Science enjoy quits.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/347644-state-dept-science-envoy-resigns?amp


Each of the letters starting the paragraphs spell impeach...

****ing hell he praised the awful anti semetic Linda Sarsour, why exactly is such a horror so popular with the American left?

Manic Moran

In the meantime, on the statue front... push to remove Christopher Columbus from San Jose city hall.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/internal-affairs-san-jose-organizers-push-to-remove-christopher-columbus-statue-from-city-hall/
and a statue of Junipero Serra (A Catholic Saint) was vandalised in California. Though, in fairness, his beatification was never a universally popular move, and there have been movements to have his statue removed from the US Capitol Building since at least January. http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/internal-affairs-san-jose-organizers-push-to-remove-christopher-columbus-statue-from-city-hall/

Every State is authorised two statues in the Capitol Building (of which Saint Junipero is one). Pelosi has been walking by them for thirty years, and has decided recently that about ten of them are actually offensive.

pitifulgod

Rjd2 wrote: »

****ing hell he praised the awful anti semetic Linda Sarsour, why exactly is such a horror so popular with the American left?

She supports the BDS boycott movement because of Israel's Palestine policy. It's a stretch to treat that as antisemetic..

Jayop

Manic Moran wrote: »

In the meantime, on the statue front... push to remove Christopher Columbus from San Jose city hall.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/internal-affairs-san-jose-organizers-push-to-remove-christopher-columbus-statue-from-city-hall/
and a statue of Junipero Serra (A Catholic Saint) was vandalised in California. Though, in fairness, his beatification was never a universally popular move, and there have been movements to have his statue removed from the US Capitol Building since at least January. http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/internal-affairs-san-jose-organizers-push-to-remove-christopher-columbus-statue-from-city-hall/

Every State is authorised two statues in the Capitol Building (of which Saint Junipero is one). Pelosi has been walking by them for thirty years, and has decided recently that about ten of them are actually offensive.

Everything I know about the discord surrounding Columbus and Columbus day has been learned from the Sopranos. Understandable that the native people wouldn't be overjoyed at him being a national hero.

demfad

Manic Moran wrote: »

Every State is authorised two statues in the Capitol Building (of which Saint Junipero is one). Pelosi has been walking by them for thirty years, and has decided recently that about ten of them are actually offensive.

Maybe she found them offensive before. There comes a different sense of urgency with racist monuments etc. when a white supremacist is president.

Most of the confederate statues were erected opportunistically by southern groups who believed that the civil war produced the wrong result and actual deny it was about slavery. Thay are about white power and need to be gone.

Zubeneschamali

demfad wrote: »

Most of the confederate statues were erected opportunistically by southern groups who believed that the civil war produced the wrong result

A generation or more after the end of the war, as if people had put up fascist monuments in Europe in the 1970s.

mcmoustache

Rjd2 wrote: »

****ing hell he praised the awful anti semetic Linda Sarsour, why exactly is such a horror so popular with the American left?

Is she that popular? From what she has said online over the years, I can only conclude that she's a potentially dangerous wacko with views that are in direct conflict with liberal values.

Maybe US leftist groups think she's just a feminist or something?

ThisRegard

Trump retweeted this today, the guy who tweeted the original has previously tweeted that he has enough of Jews where he lives and someone else should take them.

This is the type of person that Trump retweets. How does the president of the US even have time to go through his twitter feed to find such ****?

https://twitter.com/JerryTravone/status/900694348257517568

demfad

ThisRegard wrote: »

Trump retweeted this today, the guy who tweeted the original has previously tweeted that he has enough of Jews where he lives and someone else should take them.

This is the type of person that Trump retweets. How does the president of the US even have time to go through his twitter feed to find such ****?

https://twitter.com/JerryTravone/status/900694348257517568

As a narcissist the recent criticism after his Phoenix melt down is hurting him.
This tweet makes him feel a little better.

Rjd2

mcmoustache wrote: »

Is she that popular? From what she has said online over the years, I can only conclude that she's a potentially dangerous wacko with views that are in direct conflict with liberal values.

Maybe US leftist groups think she's just a feminist or something?

She is very popular yes. Some of the things she has said about Jews has been very well documented and are horrible. Its absurd to slander the whole left for one wacko obviously, but its depressing how popular she is and how protective the left in America are off her. She pretty much called Jake Tapper alt right for calling her out a few weeks ago.