Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I am not a fan of pardons in general. If they're convicted of something, there's presumably something behind it. That said, if he's going to do such a thing, the timing is more related to the conviction: He was only just convicted, the pardon now keeps him out of jail instead of coming later, after he's jailed. Still, Arpaio is highly popular in conservative circles. If, say, Manning can get a pardon, so can Joe. Goose/gander and all that.



As for the transgender thing, for what it's worth, the 56 generals in question are not the ones running the military, and the latter are the ones who have been asking for a hold. http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/23/politics/us-military-chiefs-transgender-delay/index.html . They were not on board when Secretary Carter forced the issue, and they don't seem to have changed since.

What? Manning's case is far different to a random racist.

That article is at best asking for a slight delay in taking in openly transgender troops. Not a complete and utter ban. It is also well known that Trump's excuse of saving money is utter bull. The low numbers of transport gender troops means the cost is not that high (relative to some other costs).

Samaris

What's to happen to the transgender troops already in the military? Just goes back to don't ask, don't tell?

Also, I had a quiet bet on that Trump could not resist the urge to freestyle at the Phoenix rally and would intimate a pardon for Arpaio. He did, so not surprised at this development, even if the timing is rock-dumb. The decision is rock-dumb too, since he very blatantly undermined the courts and absolutely deserved what he got.

Akrasia

Christy42 wrote: »

What? Manning's case is far different to a random racist.

Arpiao isnt a random racist. He's the poster boy for 'tough on crime' conservatives who hate libruls and think prison is all about punishment and even sexual assaults are part of that punishment.

Pardoning this guy will be hugely popular amongst his base

Akrasia

Samaris wrote: »

What's to happen to the transgender troops already in the military? Just goes back to don't ask, don't tell?

Trump directed the military to discharge all active duty transgender people in all capacities in the military. I think a lot of units will drag their heels in following this directive, but i can't imagine life will be fun for anyone who is openly transgender, or even suspected of the same

Leroy42

A good point made on TV last night was that what the pardon clearly shows is that Trump is more than happy to go outside the usual pardon process in order to look after those he wants.

That sends a clear signal to any people currently involved in the Mueller investigation that there is nothing to fear and it reduces any leverage that they would hope to use in terms of prosecution if they don't cooperate.

So the timing may seem poor in terms of the race relations etc in the states but Trump isn't worried about that. Race relations won't affect him in terms but he is thinking directly about the investigation.

Leroy42

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump directed the military to discharge all active duty transgender people in all capacities in the military. I think a lot of units will drag their heels in following this directive, but i can't imagine life will be fun for anyone who is openly transgender, or even suspected of the same

That is what he tweeted. But AFAIK the actual order is that no more TG people can be recruited and that no medical assistance will be given to help them progress.

In terms of the current serving members, he has asked for a report into the effectiveness and lethallity of the effect they have. This gives them A) time and and get out of his full idea.

Billy86

Had this posted in the wrong thread.

So right as Texas was about to be hit by what was reckoned to be the biggest storm since Hurricane Katrina (which killed up to 1,800, displaced countless more, cost over $100bn worth of damage, and was what led to Bush Jnr going from hugely unpopular into 'most unpopular president ever' territory), here is what Trump's White House decided to focus on.

- Remove white supremacist Sebastian Gorka. Why was he even there in the first place?

- Sign the bill to ban transgender people from the military, against the instruction of the military. This apparently also makes it immediately illegal for DOD to provide any medical support to injured transgendered people, which is going to be interesting for those in the field right now. Because above all else, this Trump administration has shown it's biggest weakness is the ability to think anything through whatsoever from it's implementation to it's implications.

- Pardon a corrupt, racist cop who was happy to overlook sexual assault, use funding 'incorrectly' and who cost his area millions in lawsuits for his actions.

Meanwhile, Texas is getting battered. Of course Texas being a firmly red state has two Republican senators in Ted Cruz and John Cornyn, both of whom are pleading out for aid and relief to Texas in the wake of this - which ironically has made Texas quite emblematic of all that is wrong with the US, as those same two senators voted against any relief for New York after Hurricane Sandy in 2013. There were also 23 Republican representatives in the House in 2013... 22 of them voted against relief for Hurricane Sandy. In fact in the entire Senate in 2013, only 9 of 47 Republican Senators voted for disaster relief for NY (Collins and Murkowski from the health care issue among the 'yes' minority). Let's see how they feel about Texas...

oscarBravo

Zaph wrote: »

The message that this pardon sends out is that there hasn't been a better time to be a racist in America in years.

It's worse than that. If he was just pardoning him for racism, it would be seen as permission from the executive branch for law enforcement to be racist (as if some police forces are troubled about permission).

The crime he pardoned him for was criminal contempt of court. This means that the message Trump is actually sending is "don't worry about the courts, I'll just overrule them".

It's an egregious slap in the face for the concept of separation of powers.

strandroad

He's much worse than just a racist too - institutional racist sadism is probably closer to what he's about. It's shocking if you read about it, he set up a system resulting in deaths and torture. And now Trump gave it his seal of approval.

aloyisious

Don Trump has God on his side according to Paula White, chair of his Evangelical Advisory Board. I just saw this video on F/B of her in full flow, scary thinking that she may actually believe what she says. BTW, it's on Jim Bakker's TV show....... There's a worded report included of Jerry Falwell telling the media that Do is not a racist

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiB_Kyr9fTVAhUlDsAKHYQ5BDsQFgg3MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fblogs%2Fxx_factor%2F2017%2F08%2F23%2Fpaula_white_defends_trump_post_charlottesville_on_jim_bakker_s_tv_show.html&usg=AFQjCNGMCvMTB__1yVWlyvhNDCel8gJpVQ

Billy86

It would make you ponder what the 'anti religious extremist' supporters think about their emperor supposedly having divine right, but we all know the answer to that one already.

Water John

Just to clarify, Gorka didn't resign. I presume Gen Kelly did the necessary, and issued the P45.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/25/donald-trump-sebastian-gorka-out-white-house-breitbart

aloyisious

With the way Don is getting up the back of the existing GOP leadership, I'm wondering if there is a longer-term plan to set up a third party in national US politics behind his unsettling actions. If there is no long term plan, then he's a walking disaster. He must realise that if all the groups he's angered get their act together and form a lobby group in co-ordination with the existing interested political parties [the sole aim to get rid of him] he'll be out on his ear. I just hope his statements and presidential instructions keep burning more bridges than his staff can rebuild or gloss over.

Itssoeasy

aloyisious wrote: »

With the way Don is getting up the back of the existing GOP leadership, I'm wondering if there is a longer-term plan to set up a third party in national US politics behind his unsettling actions. If there is no long term plan, then he's a walking disaster. He must realise that if all the groups he's angered get their act together and form a lobby group in co-ordination with the existing interested political parties [the sole aim to get rid of him] he'll be out on his ear. I just hope his statements and presidential instructions keep burning more bridges than his staff can rebuild or gloss over.

You realise this is Donald trump you're talking about yes ? Trump has the awareness of roof insulation. The Man may have been clever as he tricked people into believing his star and moon and rainbows fairytale of Murcia that isn't coming back.

Inquitus

aloyisious wrote: »

Don Trump has God on his side according to Paula White, chair of his Evangelical Advisory Board. I just saw this video on F/B of her in full flow, scary thinking that she may actually believe what she says. BTW, it's on Jim Bakker's TV show....... There's a worded report included of Jerry Falwell telling the media that Do is not a racist

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiB_Kyr9fTVAhUlDsAKHYQ5BDsQFgg3MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fblogs%2Fxx_factor%2F2017%2F08%2F23%2Fpaula_white_defends_trump_post_charlottesville_on_jim_bakker_s_tv_show.html&usg=AFQjCNGMCvMTB__1yVWlyvhNDCel8gJpVQ

I had a watch of that, it's too much crazy for me I am afraid. I often wonder what sets America aside from the rest of the so called "Western" world, why do they have these Christian Fundamentalists in abundance and we don't. What caused this? does it go back to the fact that a large portion of immigrants to the US hundreds of years ago were Christian Fundamentalists and it has just perpetuated since then?

Any answers that can explain this gratefully received!

aloyisious

Itssoeasy wrote: »

You realise this is Donald trump you're talking about yes ? Trump has the awareness of roof insulation. The Man may have been clever as he tricked people into believing his star and moon and rainbows fairytale of Murcia that isn't coming back.

Yes. It's the group that were in the seniority of his W/H staff that I'm thinking of, including those no longer in the W/H. They don't particularly favour either the GOP or the Dems. Don, to them, is/was an handy figurehead to coalesce around for bringing a hard-right factor into the Washington set-up. They had no interest in draining the swamp, rather to use it as far as possible to gain their ends. He [imo] believes in his infallibility and they were active in ensuring he kept on believing it.

There is one major roadblock to such a plan. Mike Pence. He will need the GOP in the next election and won't want to be seen, or thought of, as part of any such far-right [SB et al] group, assuming that he'll be their candidate then. He's possibly already been tarnished by Don's statements and tweets.
..................................................................................................

On an alternative angle, I'm wondering how long it is before the courts at all levels look at Don and begin to think that maybe he is a threat to judicial independence in regard to convictions and sentences. I don't know if they can, on their own bat, decide to take a close/r interest in Don's statements and decisions [without anyone outside the courts stating a case to them] in regard to them and maybe inform the AG of their disquiet, in the hope that he would offer "advice" to Don on quelling his activities in regard to official presidential statements going against the legal decisions of the courts, part of the blocks and balances of the system.

Don has a habit of accentuating his part in things by using a word or a phrase twice in quick succession in statements or speeches he makes. I expect that he will, over the next few days, tweet or speak about what he did in relation to the former sheriff, and basically brag that he confronted the court system and overturned a judge's decision. He [IMO] has been edging toward that after his comments about the lower court judge who made decisions against him in civil actions, in matters not related to things he did as president.

His latest act in signing an order making it official that no US transgender citizen can now join, enlist or start service in the US Military is sailing close to the wind. I expect him to come out with, or float a test-balloon, about a similar decision in regard to bi, lesbian and gay US citizens over the next few months, if no one takes an immediate USSC case seeking a stay or immediate blanket overturning of his signed order on transgender US citizens. The courts issued decisions within the past seven years allowing bi, lesbian and gay people serve in the US military.

captbarnacles

Arpaio is a loathsome human being and its hard to read some of the things he is responsible for.

How can the evangelicals support this pardon?

jooksavage

captbarnacles wrote: »

Arpaio is a loathsome human being and its hard to read some of the things he is responsible for.

How can the evangelicals support this pardon?

He's white.

Igotadose

melty melty beautiful wickedness wrote: »

I believe a white baby is more likely to turn to white parents for assistance than turn to black parents and vice versa.

"I believe" isn't data. It's opinion. Got any scientific proof to back it up? Without any, your subsequent argument falls apart.

And racist BEHAVIORS (like those demonstrated by the Nazis in Virginia) ARE learned behaviors, like all behavior is learned.

Igotadose

Leroy42 wrote: »

A good point made on TV last night was that what the pardon clearly shows is that Trump is more than happy to go outside the usual pardon process in order to look after those he wants.

That sends a clear signal to any people currently involved in the Mueller investigation that there is nothing to fear and it reduces any leverage that they would hope to use in terms of prosecution if they don't cooperate.

So the timing may seem poor in terms of the race relations etc in the states but Trump isn't worried about that. Race relations won't affect him in terms but he is thinking directly about the investigation.

This. Leroy42's nailed it, the banana republicization of America nears completeness. Buy a pardon for political favors.

Calina

captbarnacles wrote: »

Arpaio is a loathsome human being and its hard to read some of the things he is responsible for.

How can the evangelicals support this pardon?

Because what unites them more is not their faith but their dislike of the other.

Sam Russell

captbarnacles wrote: »

Arpaio is a loathsome human being and its hard to read some of the things he is responsible for.

How can the evangelicals support this pardon?

Interesting issue that the pardon is for 'criminal contempt of court'.

Can the President actually pardon someone for such a crime since it is against the separation of powers? Also, what is to stop the court from renewing the contempt case since he is presumably still in contempt and contempt usually has to be purged? I presume the sheriff has taken no action to purge his contempt.

Samaris

Sam Russell wrote: »

Interesting issue that the pardon is for 'criminal contempt of court'.

Can the President actually pardon someone for such a crime since it is against the separation of powers? Also, what is to stop the court from renewing the contempt case since he is presumably still in contempt and contempt usually has to be purged? I presume the sheriff has taken no action to purge his contempt.

Once a pardon has been issued, there can be no further investigation into the case that could lead to criminal charges, as I understand it. It's one of the few things in which the President's power is unlimited. He could, I assume, give a blanket pardon to everyone currently in jail and it would be legally binding under American law. Insane, but legally binding. This is a country in which a turkey is pardoned on Thanksgiving (which makes little sense even symbolically since the turkey was never accused of breaking any laws, but anyway).

Unfortunately, America's laws regarding their president are very much set up on an honour system, because they figured their protections were enough to prevent someone with a lack of honour getting the Presidency.

Samaris

Inquitus wrote: »

I had a watch of that, it's too much crazy for me I am afraid. I often wonder what sets America aside from the rest of the so called "Western" world, why do they have these Christian Fundamentalists in abundance and we don't. What caused this? does it go back to the fact that a large portion of immigrants to the US hundreds of years ago were Christian Fundamentalists and it has just perpetuated since then?

Any answers that can explain this gratefully received!

It's cliche, but it's probably best to think of the US as fifty small countries grouped into twoish large blocs. Religion held on much more strongly as part of a political/cultural difference between "the north" and "the south" (with many notable exceptions throughout, ofc). I'd go so far as to say that religion is inextricably mixed with politics in the US, but most notably in the regions where Christian fundamentalists still hold sway.

The lax laws on what churches can get up to, and even what churches ARE has contributed. There are hundreds of channels on which television evangelicals (who seem to be in the most part rotten conmen) can gleefully proselytise their often bastardised religious guff - the worst of which is the whole "seed faith" concept, which is pushed with disgusting lack of regard for any sort of morality. Seed faith, by the way, is "send me lots of money and God will reward you". A lot of people fall for it. A good treatment of this horrible "faith" system was done by John Oliver, where he set up a church to show how easy it is for conmen to play with the system with very little oversight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

There is also a much more..uhm..enthusiastic form of celebrating religion that is very easy to convert to stirring up hate and resentment (and a feeling of being attacked) by a clever speaker. All the rabble-rousing "DO YOU PROFESS YOUR BELIEF, BROTHER!" type speechifying, which is very televangelist, and whips up passion in a way that more staid preaching that is more common in Europe (and in the north of America) does not.

It is Expected that political leaders, especially the President, make a show of their religious beliefs and has always stood as a tradition, despite being rather against the concept of Church and State. But so far, that is what people want.

But mostly, it's just that this has hung on for decades, probably centuries, has been mixed around with other polarising them and us notions (hey, did you know that Jesus was white?) and has been allowed to get away with it in all sorts of nasty little ways that most Christians would likely deeply disapprove of if they saw it going on in another religion. In currently polarised America, it's as expected on one side of the political spectrum as not believing in climate change or the long-running spats regarding Creationism. It's present on the other side, but given there's a lot more diversity (generally) on the left at the moment, it's not really surprising that Christianity is less important at the moment there.

Mancomb Seepgood

Samaris wrote: »

The lax laws on what churches can get up to, and even what churches ARE has contributed. There are hundreds of channels on which television evangelicals (who seem to be in the most part rotten conmen) can gleefully proselytise their often bastardised religious guff - the worst of which is the whole "seed faith" concept, which is pushed with disgusting lack of regard for any sort of morality. Seed faith, by the way, is "send me lots of money and God will reward you". A lot of people fall for it. A good treatment of this horrible "faith" system was done by John Oliver, where he set up a church to show how easy it is for conmen to play with the system with very little oversight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Paula White is very much in the seed faith/"prosperity Gospel" tradition so it's easy to see why she's so supportive of Trump (and why she would appeal to his vanity).

I've no idea why this is so prevalent in America,although it may be that it's more visible now due to the decline of the mainline Protestant churches which were heavily influenced by the "social Gospel" (Episcopal,Presbyterian,Methodist etc).

People like Jerry Falwell Jr and Franklin Graham are disgracing themselves by cosying up to Trump and they deserve whatever comes of this.

PopePalpatine

Sam Russell wrote: »

Interesting issue that the pardon is for 'criminal contempt of court'.

Can the President actually pardon someone for such a crime since it is against the separation of powers? Also, what is to stop the court from renewing the contempt case since he is presumably still in contempt and contempt usually has to be purged? I presume the sheriff has taken no action to purge his contempt.

What do you expect from a guy who decries his own party's appointees as "so-called judges"?

aloyisious

Arpaio was before one court, under Judge Snow, who found him guilty of civil contempt for not obeying court orders [the injunction it issued ordering him to stop racial profiling and detaining people not suspected of offences in traffic stops] and of obstructing the court as well. Arpaio made it clear by his behaviour and media statements that he did not intend complying with the orders. Judge Snow referred the case to another court and judge Barton for judgement on criminal contempt charges Judge Barton found him guilty but hedn't decided on sentence by the time Don pardoned Arpaio.

The thing is does the pardon cover both courts convictions or just the 2nd court's criminal contempt conviction. If both then Arpaio is home free. Given that Jeff Sessions was brought into the case by way of appeals from Arpaio's supporters, it's probable that Jeff made sure Don included both convictions, but.......... slip between cup and lip might mean the 1st conviction hasn't been included, even though no further action may be taken legally as Arpaio lost the sheriff re-election afterwards.

aloyisious

US society has really been split by Don, even down to the LGBT community in Charlottesville. Those in the community who are Don supporters planned and applied to take part in the annual C/ville Pride festival with a planned 27-foot-long float that would depict a drag version of Melania Trump with others wearing long blue evening gowns that read "Make America Great Again".

However, due apparently to the size of the float, the organisers refused the application. So the local Republican LGBT group "Deplorable Pride" and Gays For Trump will march in protest on the 27th [today] against intolerance claiming they are facing intolerance from within the LGBT community. Being a member of the "community" here I find it rather a pity that politics have gotten a grip on sensible people.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjevIPd8_fVAhVhCsAKHRFFDTYQFggqMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deplorablepride.org%2F&usg=AFQjCNECFtiPKpOq-f7ljgHj12fhF-TiUA

Water John

Watching Donald pardon the two turkeys, will be interesting, if he does it. It will probably look as one of the saner things he'll have done.

Nody

Water John wrote: »

Watching Donald pardon the two turkeys, will be interesting, if he does it. It will probably look as one of the saner things he'll have done.

He'll pardon one of them and say he'll donate the other to Mexico/thrown in jail or something similar stupid thinking he was clever and made a good joke. There will be outrage again and Trump thinks it's all good because at least they are talking about him and not the failure of delivering any policies or major legislation to date.

Peregrinus

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

Paula White is very much in the seed faith/"prosperity Gospel" tradition so it's easy to see why she's so supportive of Trump (and why she would appeal to his vanity).

I've no idea why this is so prevalent in America,although it may be that it's more visible now due to the decline of the mainline Protestant churches which were heavily influenced by the "social Gospel" (Episcopal,Presbyterian,Methodist etc).

America is a very modern society and culture, shaped by enlightenment views and values, and one aspect of this is that it's a very materialist (in the philosophical sense) culture. And the prosperity gospel is a very materialist forms of Christianity.

Manic Moran

aloyisious wrote: »

With the way Don is getting up the back of the existing GOP leadership, I'm wondering if there is a longer-term plan to set up a third party in national US politics behind his unsettling actions. \

You may want to follow this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/politics/kasich-hickenlooper-2020-unity-ticket/index.html

Peregrinus

Samaris wrote: »

Once a pardon has been issued, there can be no further investigation into the case that could lead to criminal charges, as I understand it. It's one of the few things in which the President's power is unlimited. He could, I assume, give a blanket pardon to everyone currently in jail and it would be legally binding under American law . . .

The President's power of pardon only extents to crimes under US Federal Law. If Arpaio were to be charged with or convicted of an offence under Arizona State law (or the law of any other state) it would be for the state governor to pardon him (or not).

Manic Moran

Well, that didn't last long...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/politics/kasich-downplays-hickenlooper-unity-ticket/index.html

Billy86

Manic Moran wrote: »

You may want to follow this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/politics/kasich-hickenlooper-2020-unity-ticket/index.html

Wow, what a great idea! In this day and age and with how things are at the moment that could really...

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, that didn't last long...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/27/politics/kasich-downplays-hickenlooper-unity-ticket/index.html

...oh.

Leroy42

He has been tweeting constantly about the floods etc over the past few days.

You have to hand it to him, he knows what people want to hear and how to make it look like he is getting involved. Whilst I have no doubt that the likes of HC would have done a very competent job handling a situation such as this hurricane, Trump is able to act like he is directly involved and making things happen.

The fact that he keeps telling everyone that experts says that this is the worst etc and on the same time ignores the same experts in terms of Global warming is of course hypocrisy, but not something that is going to bother anyone at the present time.

TL:DR, he is very good at being populist

Akrasia

His latest tweets attacking Mexico and pretending they are going to pay for the wall have been met with the perfect response from Mexico.

They said they aint paying for no wall, and then offered Aid to help the people of America affected by Hurricane Harvey.

After Sandy hit New York in 2012, Texas Republicans actually voted to refuse federal aid to help repair the damage caused by the hurricane.

I wonder will they turn away the aid that is going to be sent to them in the aftermath of Harvey. Do they even have the self awareness to be ashamed to ask for help given that they refused help to NY and NJ 5 years ago?

Billy86

Akrasia wrote: »

After Sandy hit New York in 2012, Texas Republicans actually voted to refuse federal aid to help repair the damage caused by the hurricane.

I wonder will they turn away the aid that is going to be sent to them in the aftermath of Harvey. Do they even have the self awareness to be ashamed to ask for help given that they refused help to NY and NJ 5 years ago?

Not just Texas Senators, over three quarters of all Republican Senators (38 of 47) voted against relief after Hurricane Sandy. Let's see now if they literally have a policy of "vote for us or f*** off and die".

20Cent

Trump cut FEMA by 11% and still hasn't appointed an administrator.
Coast guard cut by 15%.
NOAA who take satelite photos cut by 22%. He has other agencies that could help as well. Not to mention he is a climate change denier.

This hurricane was seen coming yet preparations seem very inadequate.

20Cent

Trump cut FEMA by 11% and still hasn't appointed an administrator.
Coast guard cut by 15%.
NOAA who take satelite photos cut by 22%. He has other agencies that could help as well. Not to mention he is a climate change denier.

This hurricane was seen coming yet preparations seem very inadequate.

20Cent

Trump cut FEMA by 11% and still hasn't appointed an administrator.
Coast guard cut by 15%.
NOAA who take satelite photos cut by 22%. He has other agencies that could help as well. Not to mention he is a climate change denier.

This hurricane was seen coming yet preparations seem very inadequate.

Leroy42

20Cent wrote: »

Trump cut FEMA by 11% and still hasn't appointed an administrator.
Coast guard cut by 15%.
NOAA who take satelite photos cut by 22%. He has other agencies that could help as well. Not to mention he is a climate change denier.

This hurricane was seen coming yet preparations seem very inadequate.

But that is my point. He actually does nothing, and in fact he seems to have actually cut funds, but he get out the message that he is in charge, that he is working with everyone to consolidate the effort.

Of course we all know that he is only working with GOP people, or people that haven't crossed him and you can be sure that if this wasn't a state that voted for him he would be much quieter.

On the point on the preparations being inadequate, this really does seem to be a world beater storm. Not sure that anything could have coped with the sheer amount of rain that has fallen.

Captain_Crash

Leroy42 wrote: »

you can be sure that if this wasn't a state that voted for him he would be much quieter.

On this note, ya gotta admire the balls to throw this in at any given opportunity regardless of the circumstances lol

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/901795255086968833

Akrasia

20Cent wrote: »

Trump cut FEMA by 11% and still hasn't appointed an administrator.
Coast guard cut by 15%.
NOAA who take satelite photos cut by 22%. He has other agencies that could help as well. Not to mention he is a climate change denier.

This hurricane was seen coming yet preparations seem very inadequate.

A Guardian headline from June this year is telling

Houston fears climate change will cause catastrophic flooding: 'It's not if, it's when'
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/16/texas-flooding-houston-climate-change-disaster

The saddest thing is that all these climate change deniers in texas are sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting lalalalala while they're watching the effects of global warming literally washing away their homes.

Storms that use to be once in a century are now once a decade. they had flash floods last year where 16 inches of rain fell in 12 hours. 15 months later, another disaster where up to 50 inches of rain is falling within a few days.
The storm is fueled by warm water. The waters in the gulf of mexico are up to 3.5 degrees c above their average temperature for this time of the year. That's a lot of extra energy directly related to climate change. These temperature changes are only going to get worse, and the storms that feed off them are only going to get worse and a lot wetter.

You can only rebuild so many times before you give up.

If Climate change isn't stopped, these cities will be uninhabitable

Quin_Dub

Signs of his team isolating him perhaps?

Quotes from Jim Mattis to Troops

“…You’re a great example for our country right now. It’s got some problems. You know it and I know it. It’s got problems that we don’t have in the military. You just hold the line, my fine young soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, you just hold the line until our country gets back to understanding and respecting each other and showing it, and being friendly to one another, as Americans owe to one another because we’re so doggone lucky to be Americans.”

“We’ve got two powers,” he continued in the footage posted to Facebook. “We’ve got the power of inspiration and we’ll get the power of inspiration back. We’ve got the power of intimidation, and that’s you, if someone wants to screw with our families, our country and our allies.”

'

Tillerson says - "The President speaks for himself"

“You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent,” Trump said. Both sides included “very bad people”, the president added, saying those gathered for the far-right rally, ostensibly to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee, included many “fine people”.

Asked if such remarks made it harder for him to represent America abroad, Tillerson said: “I don’t believe anyone doubts the American people’s values or the commitment of the American government or the government’s agencies to advancing those values and defending those values.”

“And the president’s values?” asked Chris Wallace, the Fox news anchor.

Tillerson replied: “The president speaks for himself.”

Asked if he was “separating” himself from the president, Tillerson said: “I’ve made my own comments as to our values as well in a speech I gave to the State Department this past week.”

Neither of them exactly glowing support and praise really..

Mattis comments could be interpreted a number of ways , but Tillersons are fairly clear cut.

Leroy42

I agree, Tillerson in particular but Mattis comments,, whilst they can be spun to sound less harsh, are pretty scathing as well.

Mattis has basically told the troops to ignore the madness back home an concentrate on providing the military might to project the real US to the rest of the world. The fact he mentioned allies, a pointed remark given Trumps denigration of allies over the last number of months.

Tillerson, the president speaks for himself? Really. Because thats not the way it is supposed to be. The president is supposed to speak for the whole country. When he can't even get a member of his own cabinet to toe the line how can he expect to speak for the county.

In the past, a military campaign has always been enough to bring the people together in support of the current POTUS. I am not sure that even that traditional lever will be enough. Trump has such little credibility, not only with the non Trump supporters, but with the Senate, House, military, Courts etc that I can see any attempt (bar a direct response to a direct threat) being resisted across the board.

Billy86

Leroy42 wrote: »

In the past, a military campaign has always been enough to bring the people together in support of the current POTUS. I am not sure that even that traditional lever will be enough. Trump has such little credibility, not only with the non Trump supporters, but with the Senate, House, military, Courts etc that I can see any attempt (bar a direct response to a direct threat) being resisted across the board.

So given the desperate lengths Trump will go to in order to get people to like/respect/fear him (or to convince himself they do) is it time to start preparing for the false flag attack now, or closer to in the new year?

Leroy42

There are stories coming out (leaked) that pressure is being put on the CIA etc to find ways to show Iran are not living up to the Obama nuclear deal. NK is still an option, and of course Trump has already said that military intervention in Venezuela is an option.

So the pathway to war is well under way. Trump also seems to have a fascination with the military. He seems to see it as a toy, something he can use to prove how brilliant he is. My worry, and others like Clapper, is that Trump will utilise the military might of the US to satisfy he own needs rather than the needs of the US. Remember how he told Russia about the secret? He did that purely to show off.

My only hope, and given that he has backed down over Afgan to follow what the military deem as the best option, is that since he has surrounded himself with Generals they may be able to understand that the real might of the US military is actually the fear of it. An that might mean that even if Trump wants to wage a war that they can hold him back. It not a big hope, but its all I've got at the moment

Christy42

Billy86 wrote: »

So given the desperate lengths Trump will go to in order to get people to like/respect/fear him (or to convince himself they do) is it time to start preparing for the false flag attack now, or closer to in the new year?

Incredibly doubtful on many levels. To begin with I can't imagine a false flag attack with any hope of improving his ratings that would not lead to immediate impeachment if found out. Even then it is unlikely to make him actually popular. The risk/reward is way off kilter.

Then you have to remember the regime is leaky so everyone knows there is little odds of it staying secret if more than a few people in Washington know about it.

Finally it would be tough to keep it secret even from the majority of his administration. Pence and the rest seem to have pretty bendable morals but this seems like a few steps too far.

PopePalpatine

20Cent wrote: »

Trump cut FEMA by 11% and still hasn't appointed an administrator.
Coast guard cut by 15%.
NOAA who take satelite photos cut by 22%. He has other agencies that could help as well. Not to mention he is a climate change denier.

This hurricane was seen coming yet preparations seem very inadequate.

It's fine, Trump's just saving his subjects from those dastardly FEMA concentration camps, or so Alex Jones told me.