Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

recedite

Leroy42 wrote: »

And to say he cannot be seen to cooperate is not true. He cooperated with Russia directly on the Syria missile attack.

Can you elaborate on that?
Its possible he gave them a warning to get their personnel off the base just before the missile hit, but I'm not aware of anything official on that.
Even so, I would hardly call that cooperation.

Leroy42

recedite wrote: »

Can you elaborate on that?
Its possible he gave them a warning to get their personnel off the base just before the missile hit, but I'm not aware of anything official on that.
Even so, I would hardly call that cooperation.

I'd would call it cooperation. He informed them prior to even informing his own senate. He continually states that he will not divulge any advance info on military plans to journalists as it would be giving enemies the info but then does that.

So what what you describe it as. I mere welcome gesture? Why bother. Of all the things he had to consider was that really one of them? I'm not saying he was wrong to do it, but it shows his willingness to keep on Putins/Russians good side (again nothing wrong with that).

But you point was that relations were at an all time low and it was hindering is ability. He talked directly to Putin and accepted his word, on possible election interference and even agreed with Putin to set up a joint digital task force. This is despite his own intelligence services stating the opposite.

He said he would get rig of sanctions as soon as he was elected. So either he is incapable of getting his agenda through (and thus failing at the core part of his job, leadership) or he is actually incapable of getting relations to be better. 7 months in to his term and relations are the worst ever (according to him). Isn't that his fault?

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'd would call it cooperation. He informed them prior to even informing his own senate. He continually states that he will not divulge any advance info on military plans to journalists as it would be giving enemies the info but then does that.

So what what you describe it as. I mere welcome gesture? Why bother. Of all the things he had to consider was that really one of them? I'm not saying he was wrong to do it, but it shows his willingness to keep on Putins/Russians good side (again nothing wrong with that).

But you point was that relations were at an all time low and it was hindering is ability. He talked directly to Putin and accepted his word, on possible election interference and even agreed with Putin to set up a joint digital task force. This is despite his own intelligence services stating the opposite.

He said he would get rig of sanctions as soon as he was elected. So either he is incapable of getting his agenda through (and thus failing at the core part of his job, leadership) or he is actually incapable of getting relations to be better. 7 months in to his term and relations are the worst ever (according to him). Isn't that his fault?

The phone call had to be made. It was made to avoid turning the issue into something bigger by killing Russian soldiers. Now he should have informed the Senate first but I don't have an issue with telling Russia about the attack.

The points about the stupid joint cyber security suggestions and his willingness to ignore Russian interference on the US elections are valid. As us the point that he did want to remove sanctions on Russia.

Shockingly there appears to be an issue where Russia are attempting to covertly interfere with another Western election. More info needed at this early stage but it would indeed be surprising for the Russians to stop this tactic all of a sudden having deployed it in the US and (unsuccessfully) in France.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/german-politicians-party-suffered-russian-cyberattacks-article-1.3468560

recedite

Leroy42 wrote: »

He said he would get rig of sanctions as soon as he was elected. So either he is incapable of getting his agenda through (and thus failing at the core part of his job, leadership) or he is actually incapable of getting relations to be better.

The former. But he is only the President, and not a dictator with absolute power.
He does not control every congressman and every judge, or the media, so a lot of his original agenda has been thwarted.

Water John

I presume he's going down to Mar Lago for the weekend?

BoatMad

BillyBobBS wrote: »

He's done a brilliant job thus far as president. How he is handling the economy and the North Korea situation is outstanding. 9/10

I agree, he's down absolutely nothing on the economy, ( or replace and repeal etc ) as his legislative attempts have all been thwarted, no budget, no legislation.

On North Korea, he's actually done nothing except tweet

so , if we can continue with his complete non-involvement, we should continue to see a great economy and all sorts of foreign policy dividends

Quin_Dub

recedite wrote: »

The former. But he is only the President, and not a dictator with absolute power.
He does not control every congressman and every judge, or the media, so a lot of his original agenda has been thwarted.

He is indeed only the President , but I think that he thought the role would be more of the latter and that he could lead(rule) by diktat and is now frustrated as throughout his entire career thus far he has never had to learn the skills of genuine negotiation (not bullying) and compromise that are pretty much essential to public office and governance.

It's not that his agenda has been actively thwarted so much as he has proved himself utterly incapable of winning people over when his one and only trick of threats & tantrums doesn't work.

He has never had to convince anyone of anything - He's never had a board of directors or shareholders that he needed to convince , he's just done everything exactly the way he wanted.Which was fine , it was his company.

But now he has a board of directors of several hundred (House & Senate) and a few hundred million shareholders and he is proving to be not up to this new task.

rossie1977

Water John wrote: »

I presume he's going down to Mar Lago for the weekend?

Not sure he will be happy seeing this http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Impeach-Trump-Billboard-Pops-Up-Near-Mar-a-Lago-Resort-442491343.html

Igotadose

BoatMad wrote: »

I agree, he's down absolutely nothing on the economy, ( or replace and repeal etc ) as his legislative attempts have all been thwarted, no budget, no legislation.

On North Korea, he's actually done nothing except tweet

so , if we can continue with his complete non-involvement, we should continue to see a great economy and all sorts of foreign policy dividends

He's done plenty. He gets the credit, or blame, for anything that goes on in the government while he's president. So, the regulation mess they're causing, the various cancellations of programs like the ones to ensure better flood safety in areas like Houston, all the shenanigans going on in the Department of the Interior, basically, anything good that goes on during Trump's admin is at his feet, as well as anything bad. As far as the government not getting anything done regarding his high-visibility stress-generating ideas like border walls and muslim bans and whatnot, as they say in the US, "it's not for any want of trying."

For one example, look at the current issue around funding advertising for Obamacare enrollment. The exchanges are doing o.k. but the signup periods soon and it costs money to get the word out. As Trump's refusing to authorize the funds, the exchanges will start to do more poorly and more people will die that don't have medical care, entirely due to Trump's actions - the action to do nothing, which is actually what he's best at.

Water John

He'll be hoping, Irma will blow it down.

BoatMad

But now he has a board of directors of several hundred (House & Senate) and a few hundred million shareholders and.......

he is proving to be not up to this new task.

well, its not like we're surprised at that

Akrasia

Trump has picked his nominee to lead NASA.

The current Nasa Administrator is Charles Bolden. He was a Marine corps General and an Astronaut for 14 years. This is the kind of person you want to lead NASA

Jim Bridenstine is Trump's pick. The first time ever that a sitting politician has been nominated. This man is most known as an ardent Climate change denier.

NASA is one of the most important source of climate data used by scientists world wide.

It is likely that his nomination will be heavily challenged in the senate and hopefully he won't be confirmed.

Itssoeasy

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump has picked his nominee to lead NASA.

The current Nasa Administrator is Charles Bolden. He was a Marine corps General and an Astronaut for 14 years. This is the kind of person you want to lead NASA

Jim Bridenstine is Trump's pick. The first time ever that a sitting politician has been nominated. This man is most known as an ardent Climate change denier.

NASA is one of the most important source of climate data used by scientists world wide.

It is likely that his nomination will be heavily challenged in the senate and hopefully he won't be confirmed.

Yeah I mean a marine corps general and a man who flew on four space shuttle missions.I mean what a terrible example of the type of candidate to be the head of NASA. Trump is going to do serious damage to the good work NASA does if this idiot gets confirmed, but you seem to be saying it's going to hit a few road blocks ?

Sonics2k

BillyBobBS wrote: »

He's done a brilliant job thus far as president. How he is handling the economy and the North Korea situation is outstanding. 9/10

Let's be brutally honest here, Trump has done nothing for the economy yet. Any benefits to the U.S. economy are the result of Obama's directives. Trump promised jobs and a wall, neither of which have really happened. The wall probably won't happen, and certainly won't be done in the next 3 and a half years.

And if anything, Trump has massively escalated the likelihood of war with North Korea, which is not a good thing. For a man who promoted less wars, and pulling out of countries, he's increased military spending, has cut domestic spending, has promised a return to Afghanistan and is now threatening all out war with a country that is actively threatening to launch a nuke.

You can damn well guarantee the first place North Korea will hit will be Seoul, a city with a population of 9.86 million people. Best case scenario is 100,000 dead civilians, all because Trump can't put down his stupid phone and stay off Twitter.

BoatMad

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump has picked his nominee to lead NASA.

The current Nasa Administrator is Charles Bolden. He was a Marine corps General and an Astronaut for 14 years. This is the kind of person you want to lead NASA

Jim Bridenstine is Trump's pick. The first time ever that a sitting politician has been nominated. This man is most known as an ardent Climate change denier.

NASA is one of the most important source of climate data used by scientists world wide.

It is likely that his nomination will be heavily challenged in the senate and hopefully he won't be confirmed.

just write off the next 3.5 years

after that normality will return and the US will wake up with the biggest hangover ever

Manic Moran

Water John wrote: »

I presume he's going down to Mar Lago for the weekend?

Interestingly, he's been hitting Camp David recently.

I remember an article on BBC many moons ago, stating how the government was keeping the place ticking over, and that the local staff were convinced that he would like the place if he ever actually showed up. It turns out, it seems, that he does like it and has gone back a couple of times since his first visit a month or two ago. Much, doubtless, to the relief of the Secret Service finance guys, where the majority of the security is done by the Army on a secure base, instead of a public hotel.

With respect to the "Dreamers", whilst acknowledging the optics issue of "All these other things going on, and he goes after it now", there is the additional practical reality that the wheels of justice are turning, the DACA cases are working their way through the courts, and defending it is costing the government money right now, no matter what else is going on in the Gulf Coast and North Korea. Sessions also has a valid point that given that Congress has specifically addressed and rejected DACA, that Obama's executive action on the matter is arguably unconstitutional and crosses the separation of powers problem as well as coming against the Administrative Procedures Act. Sessions correctly points to the 5th Circuit's opinion in US vs Texas in the related DAPA case: http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/15-40238-CV0.pdf
(As an aside, there is some discussion in the footnotes for the use of "illegal" vs "undocumented" vs "unlawfully present".)

I'm not saying that this is being done purely out of respect for the legal system. The administration obviously has an agenda, and while I do sincerely hope that Congress can come up with a solution to allow folks who have only ever known life in the US to stay as it seems heartless to remove them, that doesn't mean that the supporting legal arguments are wrong. DACA is an end run around Congress's authority to determine who should be let in. It may be the 'right thing to do', but that doesn't make it lawful.

Billy86

BoatMad wrote: »

just write off the next 3.5 years

after that normality will return and the US will wake up with the biggest hangover ever

To be fair, that's like saying to ignore the fire in the basement because it will have to die off eventually anyway. Sure it will, but everything it touched will be completely ruined and take a long, long, long, long time to repair.

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm not saying that this is being done purely out of respect for the legal system. The administration obviously has an agenda, and while I do sincerely hope that Congress can come up with a solution to allow folks who have only ever known life in the US to stay as it seems heartless to remove them, that doesn't mean that the supporting legal arguments are wrong. DACA is an end run around Congress's authority to determine who should be let in. It may be the 'right thing to do', but that doesn't make it lawful.

I see your point. I think there will be a compromise in this, not in the republicans interest for the worst case scenarios that the left are predicting.I dunno if Trump has his heart in it either, he has toned down his language on it recently, and looking at the likes of Anne Coulter etc they don't expect much to come of this (from their pov) in six months.

Army_of_One

Akrasia wrote: »

Jim Bridenstine is Trump's pick. The first time ever that a sitting politician has been nominated. This man is most known as an ardent Climate change denier.

Jesus wept.

recedite

Akrasia wrote: »

The current Nasa Administrator is Charles Bolden. He was a Marine corps General and an Astronaut for 14 years. This is the kind of person you want to lead NASA
Jim Bridenstine is Trump's pick. The first time ever that a sitting politician has been nominated. This man is most known as an ardent Climate change denier.

Here's a more comprehensive description of the guy.
Astronauts used to be picked from experienced fighter pilots anyway, did they not?
He is interested and enthusiastic about space, which will count for a lot seeing as how NASA has been stagnating for a while now.

Manic Moran

That NPR link is a lot more reassuring than the memes I've been seeing going around Facebook. All the below seems pretty positive for NASA. If you want someone who will push for NASA to expand new boundaries, encourage utilisation of Space, and generally support space activities, you could do much worse.

"Bridenstine is a Republican congressman who was elected in 2012 after working as executive director of the Tulsa Air & Space Museum & Planetarium"

"As a member of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee, Bridenstine has focused on trying to revitalize NASA, with his American Space Renaissance Act.

He's spoken out against space junk, calling the problem of orbital debris "absolutely huge. It's a problem that cannot be ignored any longer."

He's a big fan of the moon, and recently told NASA's Lunar Exploration Analysis Group in Washington, D.C., that the discovery of water ice on the moon should have resulted in a permanent outpost there for rovers and machines to exploit the lunar materials and drive down the cost of space exploration. "America must forever be the pre-eminent spacefaring nation and the moon is a path to being so," he told the group."

"I'm a guy that comes from Oklahoma and I have absolutely no problem studying the climate. That's what these assets do. They study the climate. There's nothing wrong with that."

"Bridenstine is seen as a proponent of commercial space companies, and has said that the government "understands that in the future, and even today, it will be a customer of routine space services, not a provider of routine space services."

He has also pushed measures that would allow commercial companies to gather and sell weather forecasting data that would integrate with U. S. weather forecasting models."

Stheno

I'm not too familiar with the DACA fuss, is it a case that some states were going to go to court/have gone to court to have DACA declared unconstitutional, and potentially cause it to become invalid as a result?

Ergo Trumps actions on it today are pre-empting that? And looking to put a permanent solution in place?

Christy42

recedite wrote: »

Here's a more comprehensive description of the guy.
Astronauts used to be picked from experienced fighter pilots anyway, did they not?
He is interested and enthusiastic about space, which will count for a lot seeing as how NASA has been stagnating for a while now.

I am loving how high a bar you set. The man to be in charge of NASA is interested and enthusiastic about space. Well that seriously narrows it down.

I would want to include a willingness to listen to NASA scientists.

Akrasia

Manic Moran wrote: »

That NPR link is a lot more reassuring than the memes I've been seeing going around Facebook.
...

"I'm a guy that comes from Oklahoma and I have absolutely no problem studying the climate. That's what these assets do. They study the climate. There's nothing wrong with that."

The guy will instantly cut funding for any research related to climate change.

He wanted Obama to apologise to america because he spends (allegedly) more more money on climate research than weather forecasting

This is a man who puts his politics above the science. If the science says something he disagrees with, he calls the science wrong.

Akrasia

recedite wrote: »

Here's a more comprehensive description of the guy.
Astronauts used to be picked from experienced fighter pilots anyway, did they not?
He is interested and enthusiastic about space, which will count for a lot seeing as how NASA has been stagnating for a while now.

Astronauts often have backgrounds as military pilots, but that doesn't mean that everyone who was a pilot gets to be an astronaut. And the administrator of NASA needs to have an exemplary scientific record and understanding of how space travel works.

Trump picked this guy because he was an early Trump loyalist who shares his views on climate change.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the DACA fuss, is it a case that some states were going to go to court/have gone to court to have DACA declared unconstitutional, and potentially cause it to become invalid as a result?

Ergo Trumps actions on it today are pre-empting that? And looking to put a permanent solution in place?

Anyone? Am I right in thinking the most likely rest is it will be repealed?

VinLieger

Stheno wrote: »

Anyone? Am I right in thinking the most likely rest is it will be repealed?

Im readinf reports that WH staffers dont believe hebunderstood what repealing DACA actually mesnt. It sounds to me like its another "did obama do this? Bin it!"

20Cent

He is basically using these people as hostages to get his wall. Very low thing to do. Same of them are in the military.

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, said Mr. Trump would support legislation to protect those young immigrants, as long as Congress passes it as part of a broader immigration overhaul to strengthen the border, protect American jobs and enhance enforcement.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/us/politics/trump-daca-dreamers-immigration.html?mcubz=0

Billy86

Key thing there is not to break or give him his way. The Hispanic Chamber of Commerce CEO (largely seen to be much friendlier GOP) resigned over this. Reports are coming out that Trump (surprise, surprise) didn't research this much or really even know what it was, students have been marching in protest, and multiple large companies (such as Apple, who have 250 Dreamers on their staff) have been hugely vocal about how awful it is.

This is one of those moves that shows he is a) unthinkably stupid, or b) beholden further to Putin. Causes a huge mess in the US, gains him exactly zero extra supporters, and is so pig headed that it continues to slowly chip away at parts of what remains of his non-alt-right base.

Oh yeah, on that note Pence is apparently being implicated over the Comey obstruction of justice bit - that could be interesting to keep an eye on.

Samaris

Pence is? Hm, good news there. He's as dangerous as Trump is, albeit less chaotic.

The whole business around DACA was shameful and shoddy work. It was unneccessary too - these people have to jump through hoops to stay, have a clean record, keep reapplying for it and their position is always awkward when it comes to taking part in society. And that so many registered when the amnesty was offered makes it cruel for the next administration to reverse it and use the information gathered in good faith to exile them, because that is essentially what they're doing for people who do not have a "home" country. (Last I heard, their information was not handed over to ICE, but I don't see this going any other way.)

These people were innocent from the outset. He's picking low-hanging apples to be able to tell his base he's evicting Mexicans. I don't hold out much hope for Congress' solution. If he intended it to be a decent outcome for the DREAMers, he'd have given some idea of what it was to be replaced with.

Leroy42

It all seems a little confusing to me.

As I understand it (and of course this is my way of asking for others to inform me properly) Obama tried to get legislation through congress (or get congress to propose legislation) but it never happened and in the end Obama signed an executive order.

This order, much like Trumps muslim ban, has been contested in the courts. It seems, from my reading of it, that it is likely to be found unconstitutional.

So Trump is simply reversing Obama flawed EO? Now it strikes me as strange that the muslim ban was stopped so quickly yet this seems to have run for years before it seems to be have been noticed.

Finally, Trump doesn't appear to be stopping it at all. From the coverage I have seen, it seems that if congress can find a way to legislate then he's fine with that. He has come up with an arbitrary 6 months timeframe. So if Congress can agree Trump will sign and DACA is protected?

Water John

But. he's tying it to his Mexican Wall.

LeinsterDub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Finally, Trump doesn't appear to be stopping it at all. From the coverage I have seen, it seems that if congress can find a way to legislate then he's fine with that. He has come up with an arbitrary 6 months timeframe. So if Congress can agree Trump will sign and DACA is protected?

Like Brexit he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to be able to say to his base he repealed DACA , while having congress introduce a new bill so he can say to his base he didn't reintroduce it all the while not costing the US economy 400 bl.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/05/daca-deportations-could-cost-us-economy-more-than-400-billion.html

Nermal

Akrasia wrote: »

DACA is not a slippery slope. It was an amnesty to a specific group of targeted people who have proven themselves to be upstanding (potential) citizens.

Amnesties are by their very nature slippery slopes. This is the strategy of those that want open borders: slow the deportation process, then claim it's unjustly long when it finally arrives at its end.

Akrasia wrote: »

It is white people afraid that non white people might become a majority in America.

Are you saying they won't become a minority, or that they shouldn't be afraid of that?

eagle eye

I'm starting to side with Trump's fake news claims. The amount of stuff being said about him in the media that is conjecture being reported like facts is shocking. The US media have already shown an extremely ugly side since Trump became a serious Presidential candidate.
The UK media and most of Europe's media have shown a very biased side too.

I'm not a fan of Trump but I don't underestimate him like a lot of people do.

I'm very afraid of Pence and word hate to see him ever get become POTUS.

frag420

eagle eye wrote: »

Trump became a serious Presidential candidate.

Someone needs to tell Trump this news as he is far from taking the role serious!!

ThisRegard

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm starting to side with Trump's fake news claims. The amount of stuff being said about him in the media that is conjecture being reported like facts is shocking.

Such as? Take just one report, the latest Washington Post fact checker for example, and show us what they've got wrong?

mcmoustache

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm starting to side with Trump's fake news claims. The amount of stuff being said about him in the media that is conjecture being reported like facts is shocking.

I'm curious about this. Most stuff I see are statements him, tweets by him, speeches by him etc. What fake news are you taking about?

rossie1977

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm starting to side with Trump's fake news claims. The amount of stuff being said about him in the media that is conjecture being reported like facts is shocking. The US media have already shown an extremely ugly side since Trump became a serious Presidential candidate.
The UK media and most of Europe's media have shown a very biased side too.

I'm not a fan of Trump but I don't underestimate him like a lot of people do.

I'm very afraid of Pence and word hate to see him ever get become POTUS.

The guy who stands on a podium and claims he got the most electoral votes since Reagan or had his press secretary tell the world his inauguration speech had the largest crowd or spent most of the last decade on Twitter saying Obama's birth cert was a fake and he was in fact born in Kenya..that's the guy you believe.

That's only until June https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html?mcubz=1

Leroy42

I find it curious that in an age that people have more access than ever to information, when the strength of the traditional media is declining and that people can quickly look at a number of differents online sources regarding the same story that anybody can claim that the Fake News agenda has any effect outside of those that are happy to accept the message as it fits with their agenda.

Many times media has to conjecture as they are simply left without any facts. They ask the question but get no response, or Sarah favorite "I'll get back to you on that". So they take there professional view point to paint the missing pieces.

This could easily overcome if Trump was more forthcoming with his facts. Why did you fire Comey? How many different answers did we actually get? When will you release your tax returns? How many variations on a timescale before the final announcement of never?

Everybody has an agenda. Every press release, media story etc is coming from a particular angle. One needs to look at them all with a critical eye. Look at what is not written as well as what is. Look at alternative sources for the info. Are others taking the same position or is it open to interpretation.

On the substantive issues, contacts with Russia, conflicts of interest, problems within the WH, the WP and NYT and been pretty much spot on. Very rarely have they been found to have been wrong, and in the cases where they have it has been down to bad intel.

Unfortunately, Trump and the WH has been found to be incorrect on numerous occasions, and given that they had direct knowledge of the facts, one can only conclude that it was on purpose. How anyone can then claim that the MSM are fake and not put the same label on Trump is a strange twist of logic.

MadYaker

I find it hard to understand his decisions, I mean nobody was talking about DACA until he made it an issue and now the US has something else to tear itself apart over, and there is so much noise in the media that it's really hard to know what's actually happening because nobody is giving an unbiased view. It takes a huge amount of time and effort to sift through loads of different media reports on happenings in the WH, read them all and then try and form your own unbiased view. Most people don't have the time or patience or couldn't be bothered. That's why alternative facts or fake news or whatever you want to call it has become so prevalent.

For example if you go on Reddit now, read r/politics and then read r/TheDonald you'll be presented with two entirely different pictures of the DACA program (and of reality in general) and the people on both sides fully believe that they are correct and they will listen to nothing that comes from the other side of the debate. I think it's remarkable I've never seen anything like it. I think Trump is doing huge damage to the fabric of American society by creating and fostering these divisions.

VinLieger

Well he's got enough on his plate right now as far as natural disasters go to step up and show what hes made of, first Harvey and now Irma on its way to Florida with Jose building up steam right behind and nobody knows where its going yet. Not to mention the entire pacific northwest is basically on fire.

Not much valuable contributions on any of it from Trump yet though. My favorite description of his behaviours during Harvey was that he was basically "gawking" at all the chaos.

Compare his tweets on the crisis to others in his administration like Pence and even Obama, Clinton etc, they all are giving info directing people to evacuate who to call how to get help, he's still obsessed with size of things FFS, its like he's proud of how big the hurricane is......

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/905383515302264832

Or hes talking about how great his administration is

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/905383039517282304

Anything about sympathy or trying to direct people looking for help and assistance?? nahhhhhhh

Itssoeasy

Trump today sided with the democrats in the raising the debt ceiling and hurricane Harvey relief. :D:D and called them Nancy and chuck. The republicans wanted an 18 month extension but it didn't happen. Just in case the republicans assumed the president was loyal to them. No dice paul and Mitch. Haha.

Igotadose

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Trump today sided with the democrats in the raising the debt ceiling and hurricane Harvey relief. :D:D and called them Nancy and chuck. The republicans wanted an 18 month extension but it didn't happen. Just in case the republicans assumed the president was loyal to them. No dice paul and Mitch. Haha.

According to some wags on Twitter, "Debt is something Trump understands very well" :P:P:P

Rjd2

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Trump today sided with the democrats in the raising the debt ceiling and hurricane Harvey relief. :D:D and called them Nancy and chuck. The republicans wanted an 18 month extension but it didn't happen. Just in case the republicans assumed the president was loyal to them. No dice paul and Mitch. Haha.

To be fair, one of the main criticisms of Trump from the Never Trump conservative wing was that he wasn't really a genuine conservativie and his inner circle would lean Democrat (especially the likes of Ivanka etc).

Today won't have shocked anyone whatsoever on the Republican side with half a brain.

Samaris

He's landing himself badly for December. He got played on that. The debt ceiling conversation is one that the Republicans do not want to be having as it's unpopular. They wanted a longer timeframe, preferably after the 2018 mid-terms (there was a push for 18 months). Democrats wanted a short period, for the Republicans to have to face into a debt ceiling debate as much as possible.

Whether Trump didn't understand the political reality, or whether he was just punishing his allies because things aren't going as well as he expects is hard to say though.

Billy86

Just going to pop this here the next time someone tries to tell us with a straight face that Breitbart isn't racist and is basically just the "right's version of the Guardian".



"Breitbart is using a Getty photo of MS-13 members in El Salvaor to talk about DACA recipients in the U.S. because it is a racist hate site"

jooksavage

It's always nice when Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnel come away sad. It spells trouble for the Republican party in the coming months- squabbles with the freedom caucus are the last thing they need coming into 2018. All the same, it speaks volumes about Trump's unpredictable temperment. He just does whatever he thinks makes him look good at any given point. God help us all if he decides waging war on NK will improve his brand.

Leroy42

TBF, Trump has actually played the DACA card well. (Its a horrible thing to do from a human perspective but then Trump thinks that the Hurricane in Houstan was beautiful)

He has pretty much pushed this off onto congress (basically the GOP) which were pretty much the reason it didn't get through during Obama. So the GOP now are faced with either putting something together to get it through (and thus annoying many in their base both because they don't want it and the GOP failed to get RnR of Obamacare and possibly tax reform through) or they do nothing and get the total blame and also look like they are totally incapable of getting anything done.

So they either fall in line with Trump told them to do, something they have tried hard to fight against, or they look incompetent. Trump will either be the saviour by getting legislation through that Obama never did, and thus saving 800k DACA's, or he is yet again stifled by an incompetent swamp.

MadYaker

For once he is handling congress well! The way they behave is ridiculous. It's a shame the fate of the DACA program hangs in the balance though! He has no compassion at all.