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London Fire and Aftermath RIP

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    kopite386 wrote: »
    Also some of the patients could be badly burned so I'm sure families/friends/relatives wouldn't appreciate photos like that online

    Boo hoo! I'd sooner know someone was alive and in a state than be left distraught wondering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Absolutely shocked and sickened how this fire spread so quick, sounds like the dead never stood a chance. Not sure about manslaughter charges at this point, but heads should at least fcuking roll.

    I know many oppose the DUP/Tory coalition there, but they need to get their fingers out, and get a government formed, and have this investigated, resolved, and never be let happen again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    There is a government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭kopite386


    Seems most of the missing were on the floors that firefighters couldn't reach. Those missing on the lower floors were mostly older victims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    I alway try not to believe all the crap written in the media - remember the media ALWAYS have an agenda.

    Yes part of the reason for cladding was to make the building look better and that usually for the residents to like better where they live. It also provided much needed insulation as if you check other reports, the flats were freezing in winter and far too hot in summer.

    The cladding was a small part of the project. Every window was replaced too with double glazing and electrical work was carried out.

    But certain media will never ever give the full story when a screaming headline that suit their own agenda is available using just a small part of the story.

    So just be careful of the media - no matter what the story. A public enquiry is being held on this tragedy and that will give the full story and hopefully lessons learnt will avoid any such tragedy again


    did you see the video. It was no story written by the media, locals gave their valid opinions. locals normally have a very good perception of the things going on in their neighbourhood

    and surely, if the authorities decide to renovate the block, your not only doing the cladding, the other stuff as heating is carried out too as it is part of the funding package of the government. That doesn't mean they, most obviously, did a cheap job to enhance the building.
    And still, why only the building next to the shopping center and not the others?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭kopite386


    Just saw police have said that 6 of 17 bodies have been identified but that some bodies may never be identified


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 869 ✭✭✭mikeybrennan


    Full public enquiry announced immediately- very convenient for shutting down debate

    Has Teresa May ordered an urgent investigation to determine who else is at immediate risk of the same event and take immediate measures to alleviate the risk

    I doubt it


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Just saw Sadiq Kahn face the press and be in the middle of a massive scrum of residents, community people, and families of missing people and victims etc, talking to people and answering questions with quite a lot of abuse and suchlike .

    Whilst he's getting a lot of hate, the fact he's answering questions and not avoiding anyone and going out to the front-line and meeting with people whilst the Prime Minister goes nowhere near is damning about May.


  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Full public enquiry announced immediately- very convenient for shutting down debate
    And if they didn't it would be a "Where's the enquiry?".
    Has Teresa May ordered an urgent investigation to determine who else is at immediate risk of the same event and take immediate measures to alleviate the risk

    I doubt it
    Can't remember if it was the national government or the councils themselves but they're supposed to be doing the rounds to check other tall buildings now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    devnull wrote: »
    Just saw Sadiq Kahn face the press and be in the middle of a massive scrum of residents, community people, and families of missing people and victims etc, talking to people and answering questions with quite a lot of abuse and suchlike .

    Whilst he's getting a lot of hate, the fact he's answering questions and not avoiding anyone and going out to the front-line and meeting with people whilst the Prime Minister goes nowhere near is damning about May.

    And May got a private, media free with no peasants...sorry locals to annoy her tour of the site earlier this morning. The woman is a grade A coward.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭BlinkingLights


    She really lacks the human touch. You'd get a more warm and cuddly vibe from Siri.

    While I'm not saying this specific incident is directly down to Tory housing policy. They really need to face the fact that they've made a lot of people's lives misery with that 'bedroom tax' and endless cuts to services. A lot of the population in London live in substandard housing and the reason is that they cards are stacked for investors and property flippers. It's a mistake Ireland's repeated too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,101 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    She really lacks the human touch. You'd get a more warm and cuddly vibe from Siri.

    exactly. then you have corbyn, who actually sounds genuinely sad and sorry and seems to actually care.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    These people basically died because they were working class council tenants. For years they had raised concerns about fire safety only be to ignored and dismissed but the company managing the block; across London council tenants are now viewed as obstacles to be shunted off land in order to make way for luxury flats for the wealthy.

    The only money ever spent on this building was to put flammable cladding on the outside so it wouldn't be an eyesore for the rich people who live near the block. No money for sprinklers, or alarms or fire escapes.

    This is far more than an accidental tragedy, this is an inevitable consequence of London's sordid housing situation. David Lammy MP has described it as "corporate manslaughter" and he's not far wrong.

    Thank God for our fire brigade, who despite having been cut to the bone and suffering huge attacks on their livelihood, did an amazing job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    Absolutely shocked and sickened how this fire spread so quick, sounds like the dead never stood a chance. Not sure about manslaughter charges at this point, but heads should at least fcuking roll.

    Speculation* As the flames swept up the outside of the building it could only have been the cladding, (or the way in which it was attached) to the block. This was a theory put forward by a witness who suspected that the airspace between the cladding the wall acted like a chimney drawing air (and flames) up the outside of the flats!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 869 ✭✭✭mikeybrennan


    If was probably like a wind tunnel inside the cladding


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,181 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    exactly. then you have corbyn, who actually sounds genuinely sad and sorry and seems to actually care.

    He's in opposition! His appearance today was planned to thwart May and if you watch it closely, instead of being mesmorised by the socialist conscience, he was a typical politician out to score points. I have no doubt that if he was Priminister after barely surviving a controversial election campaign, he would be skulking about just like May. None of them genuinely care. That's why things like this happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    Full public enquiry announced immediately- very convenient for shutting down debate

    Has Teresa May ordered an urgent investigation to determine who else is at immediate risk of the same event and take immediate measures to alleviate the risk

    I doubt it
    Inquiries are great, no decisions can be made till the inquiry is complete. Larkanal fire in a similar block happened in 2009 inquiry published their report in Jan this year. The report outlines solutions That could have helped save lives but it was published too late for them to be implemented in time


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Politicians should just back off at times like this and merely release a statement. Their presence either invites hate and ridicule or mild approval depending on whether the person is the PM or the Leader of the Opposition, sorry Tory or Labour. No win either way.

    I reckon the release of information is being very carefully controlled to minimise the anger and the possibility of riots.

    The reality is, sadly that by Saturday it will be something else. Same with Borough Market and Manchester.

    But the grief is with the families and loved ones. None of our business really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Bushmanpm


    So Kensington & Chelsea council blew ten million quid because they didn't like the way it looked?
    DO THEY LIKE THE WAY IT FCUKING LOOKS NOW???


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    He's in opposition! His appearance today was planned to thwart May and if you watch it closely, instead of being mesmorised by the socialist conscience, he was a typical politician out to score points. I have no doubt that if he was Priminister after barely surviving a controversial election campaign, he would be skulking about just like May. None of them genuinely care. That's why things like this happen.

    Nah Corbyn is the real deal. He's been advocating for working people and council tenants for years. Fair play to him for heading down and showing a bit of leadership, engaging with the community. By the looks of it he was very well received. Say what you like about him, he's 100% genuine.

    Whether people like it or not, politics has huge relevance to what happened here and we need real concrete solutions on housing as opposed to a few platitudes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Bushmanpm wrote: »
    So Kensington & Chelsea council blew ten million quid because they didn't like the way it looked?
    DO THEY LIKE THE WAY IT FCUKING LOOKS NOW???

    I think posh tw#ts are the words you're looking for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    devnull wrote: »
    Just saw Sadiq Kahn face the press and be in the middle of a massive scrum of residents, community people, and families of missing people and victims etc, talking to people and answering questions with quite a lot of abuse and suchlike .

    Whilst he's getting a lot of hate, the fact he's answering questions and not avoiding anyone and going out to the front-line and meeting with people whilst the Prime Minister goes nowhere near is damning about May.

    May and her Ilk do not recognize these people, they don't vote conservative and they are of a different class, an underclass.

    Hear she might call back next Tuesday, see you next Tuesday Theresa May. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    There is a government.

    Not a proper one yet. The coalition are still in talks, members of the oposition are still oposing it, and the Queens Speach still has to be prepared where their plans are outlined.

    I assume the outgoing set up, can still start procedings, but I do fear, this disaster could, and probably already have, start point scoring, between the DUP stalling talks as a mark of respect, May aledidly not visiting survivors, and Corbyn, already have done so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,101 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    He's in opposition! His appearance today was planned to thwart May and if you watch it closely, instead of being mesmorised by the socialist conscience, he was a typical politician out to score points. I have no doubt that if he was Priminister after barely surviving a controversial election campaign, he would be skulking about just like May. None of them genuinely care. That's why things like this happen.

    99% of the time i would agree with all that, however not this time. corbyn is definitely genuine. while i wouldn't agree with every single one of his proposed policies i do believe that he actually has the interests of all at heart.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,037 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    99% of the time i would agree with all that, however not this time. corbyn is definitely genuine. while i wouldn't agree with every single one of his proposed policies i do believe that he actually has the interests of all at heart.

    That's exactly how he was described to me last weekend. You might not agree with him but you can't say he hasn't got full conviction in his policies. It was the big take away listening to the post election coverage. People felt that they could relate in some way to Corbyn and not to May.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,181 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Nah Corbyn is the real deal. He's been advocating for working people and council tenants for years. Fair play to him for heading down and showing a bit of leadership, engaging with the community. By the looks of it he was very well received. Say what you like about him, he's 100% genuine.

    Whether people like it or not, politics has huge relevance to what happened here and we need real concrete solutions on housing as opposed to a few platitudes.


    Well I disagree. IMO he's a spoofer like the rest of them. I appreciate some of his policies and his historic/rebellious contributions to the Lab party, but at the end of the day, he's a politician and will change his mind as quick as the Grenfell tower went on fire. Obviously I accept that he could prove me wrong. But time will tell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    FTA69 wrote: »
    These people basically died because they were working class council tenants. For years they had raised concerns about fire safety only be to ignored and dismissed but the company managing the block; across London council tenants are now viewed as obstacles to be shunted off land in order to make way for luxury flats for the wealthy.

    The only money ever spent on this building was to put flammable cladding on the outside so it wouldn't be an eyesore for the rich people who live near the block. No money for sprinklers, or alarms or fire escapes.

    This is far more than an accidental tragedy, this is an inevitable consequence of London's sordid housing situation. David Lammy MP has described it as "corporate manslaughter" and he's not far wrong.

    Thank God for our fire brigade, who despite having been cut to the bone and suffering huge attacks on their livelihood, did an amazing job.

    this +1. the people in the building were not worth the money to install prroper fire alarm systems and all what comes with this. this is also a subtle way of getting rid of this eyesores (there are 4 or 5 more of this towers), including the tenants, to free space in the nice Kensington neighbourhood for expensive developments for the wealthy.

    as said, this stuff makes my blood boil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2017/0615/882886-london-fire/
    Police are hoping death toll doesn't rise into triple digits, Im guessing identification of victims is taking a long time due to the danger of trying to reach the very unstable upper levels
    17 deaths is just the tip of the iceberg.
    Such destruction all because of greed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69,175 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Well I disagree. IMO he's a spoofer like the rest of them. I appreciate some of his policies and his historic/rebellious contributions to the Lab party, but at the end of the day, he's a politician and will change his mind as quick as the Grenfell tower went on fire. Obviously I accept that he could prove me wrong. But time will tell.

    At least the morale of those affected was boosted by somebody who at least has the competency to pretend to be warm and empathetic.
    That is the purpose of these visits.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Well I disagree. IMO he's a spoofer like the rest of them. I appreciate some of his policies and his historic/rebellious contributions to the Lab party, but at the end of the day, he's a politician and will change his mind as quick as the Grenfell tower went on fire. Obviously I accept that he could prove me wrong. But time will tell.

    Here, I generally think all politicians are full of it but he's not. For years he's been totally consistent in his positions. I used to live in his constituency and every resident's group or local campaign group (i.e. genuine local people who graft away for the better) think he's sound. Put it this way, while the government were at a function shmoozing away with the apartheid regime ministers, he was outside getting arrested.

    I agree with you about politicians in general, but he's the man as far as I'm concerned. At the very least he has integrity.


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