London Fire and Aftermath RIP

mikeybrennan

CeilingFly wrote: »

Don't take one single sentence from a multi page report and think that's the only reason.

That's what the gutter press do to suit their own sensationalist hysterical scaremongering agenda.

When I painted my hopuse last eyar I did it because I wanted it to look nice as I approached it - that the neighbours also might think it looked well is no matter.

Same here - the cladding is an insulated cladding that gives a modern look AND provides much needed insulation for a early 70's built concrete block that was freezing in winter. They also installed double glazed windows.

The error was they opted for a non fire resistant insulation material that was about 10% cheaper (about £300,000 cheaper).


The errors here are following

1 - issue with the material used in the cladding rather than the cladding itself
2 - issue with fire doors
3 - issue with emergency lighting
4 - issue with other fire safety aspects

In a "normal fire" in a properly fire risked falt / apartment building, the fire should be well contained within the specific area for a period long enough for fire tender to arrive and quell.


What has to be done now is to get the findings and ensure that they are applied retrospectively to all large apartment / flat complexes and hopefully authorities here will also check for such risks over here. - though we have very few such old style blocks (UK has over 7,000!)

What gives you the authority to determine the errors at this early stage

orangerhyme

mikeybrennan wrote: »

What gives you the authority to determine the errors at this early stage

I think hes just expressing an opinion. Its just a forum post not an official report.

glenfieldman

Looking at sky news now, looks like its simmering now
Them poor people are very angry

Scarinae

Demonstrators have entered Kensington town hall and are chanting "We want justice" in the lobby.

AllGunsBlazing

Angry crowds gathering outside Kensington town hall. It's going to be a long and nervous weekend.

The_Valeyard

May have reached a tipping point today.

CeilingFly

mikeybrennan wrote: »

What gives you the authority to determine the errors at this early stage

Where do I say I had the authority? - this is what initial LFS reports and expert fire specialists are saying contributed to the fast spread of a fire that in normal circumstances should have been confined to the one flat.

Also, I've been involved in buisiness for many years with several buildings that required fit-out and fire certificates and as I' have had to pay for all the work, I have reasonable lay knowledge of reasoning behind many fire preventative measures especially the importance of fire doors and their rating to suit the premises.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Mark Duggan was a violent thug who brought his death on himself. He's not comparable to the people who lost their lives in the Tower.

I really hope agitators don't try and politicise this tragedy. London has suffered enough recently.

BlinkingLights

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Angry crowds gathering outside Kensington town hall. It's going to be a long and nervous weekend.

They're angry but being quite sensible by the looks of it.

RayM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I really hope agitators don't try and politicise this tragedy. London has suffered enough recently.

Too late. It looks very much as though the causes of the tragedy were political. I hope people don't have to riot over this, but I wouldn't blame them for a second if they did.

Boom_Bap

I've merged the 2 threads on this issue and updated the thread title as they have started discussing the events tonight, it's best to have one single stream of discussion on this.

Ulysses Gaze

RayM wrote: »

Too late. It looks very much as though the causes of the tragedy were political. I hope people don't have to riot over this, but I wouldn't blame them for a second if they did.

Agreed.

Consistent ignoring of the poorer classes by both Labour and the Tories.

And people wonder why clowns like Trump get into power and why Brexit happens....

Widdershins

What on Earth do people expect to achieve by demanding justice...do they want a rushed investigation (never a good idea) or is it that they don't want any investigation..just find the Cons guilty right now and be done with it? Is that what people want?

I totally blame people who riot, generally they start or cause fires in the process, which is hardly helpful now is it. And apart from that they cause fear and suffering for ordinary people who may have to lock themselves indoors in fear.

glenfieldman

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Mark Duggan was a violent thug who brought his death on himself. He's not comparable to the people who lost their lives in the Tower.

I really hope agitators don't try and politicise this tragedy. London has suffered enough recently.

I never have or would compare Duggan with the poor victims from Wednesday.
But with emotions so volatile and so many spouting the racist card (which they are doing now) there will be only one outcome

orangerhyme

Protesters have given the council a list of demands.

They are:

Written commitment from the council on immediate rehousing of all the victims of Grenfell Tower fire within the borough
Immediate release of funds to cover costs of welfare and all losses suffered by the victims
Commission an investigation into the recent ?10m refurbishment project of the same tower
Release full list of victims of the tragedy
Commission investigation into all other similar buildings in the borough to identify fire, health and safety risks and put in place immediate control measures.

orangerhyme

I wasnt comparing the victims to Mark Diggan, simply that if the death of one male adult criminal can cause a riot, then its possible the deaths of dozens of children will cause a riot.

Also, the protesters at the council building have specific demands which is how to effectively protest, as opposed to just expressing anger.
Im fully supportive of them.

Im not hoping for a riot, just prediciting it based on the conditions such as angry crowds, weekend, summer, hot weather, built up frustration from years of cuts and austerity.

RayM

Widdershins wrote: »

What on Earth do people expect to achieve by demanding justice...do they want a rushed investigation (never a good idea) or is it that they don't want any investigation..just find the Cons guilty right now and be done with it? Is that what people want?

I totally blame people who riot, generally they start or cause fires in the process, which is hardly helpful now is it. And apart from that they cause fear and suffering for ordinary people who may have to lock themselves indoors in fear.

Whether rioting is "helpful" or not, sometimes angry civil disobedience is the only language those in charge of an inherently violent system understand.

devnull

Seeing the protests going on, right now in the office on Sky News, it's incredible how crazy it is.

However Theresa May has to carry some of the can here, it's no wonder that people are angry and feel that nobody cares about them, because Theresa May's willful dereliction of duty when it comes to leadership of the country gives off exactly that impression.

As someone who used to live in the UK the last few months have really shown how far it has fallen, politicians who are completely disconnected with the public and simply don't care about your average Joe on the street.

wes

orangerhyme wrote: »

Protesters have given the council a list of demands.

They are:

Written commitment from the council on immediate rehousing of all the victims of Grenfell Tower fire within the borough
Immediate release of funds to cover costs of welfare and all losses suffered by the victims
Commission an investigation into the recent ?10m refurbishment project of the same tower
Release full list of victims of the tragedy
Commission investigation into all other similar buildings in the borough to identify fire, health and safety risks and put in place immediate control measures.

All of that is reasonable imo. Hopefully, there demands are met.

Mint Sauce

Watching BBC News. Really looks like there could be trouble tonight.

AllGunsBlazing

The crowd around Kensington and Chelsea town hall seems to have dissipated for the most part. There were a few scuffles outside when someone , who I assume was a councillor, was being escorted to a car. They seem to have vented and now gone elsewhere.

Harry Palmr

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Watching BBC News. Really looks like there could be trouble tonight.

I tend to agree, hot sunny weather + lots of rent a gobs and media mixing it'll probably end up with some arseholes breaking windows.

AllGunsBlazing

So Theresa May made another visit to the area. Looks like she got a hostile reception.

end of the road

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Mark Duggan was a violent thug who brought his death on himself. He's not comparable to the people who lost their lives in the Tower.

actually going on the evidence he didn't bring his death on himself.
he was a thug though.

jackofalltrades

RayM wrote: »

Too late. It looks very much as though the causes of the tragedy were political. I hope people don't have to riot over this, but I wouldn't blame them for a second if they did.

Based on what?

retro:electro

Teresa May wtf. She just keeps making blunder after blunder. She's just incapable of placing herself among the people. Lacks the common touch. A bit like Varadkar.

markodaly

RayM wrote: »

Too late. It looks very much as though the causes of the tragedy were political. I hope people don't have to riot over this, but I wouldn't blame them for a second if they did.

To be honest, no one knows yet. Of course, this will not try and stop people from using it as a political football.

Richard Hillman

In a day where there was another attempted terror attack and 3 attacks over the last couple of months, the Prime Minister addressing a baying mob isn't a very good idea.

DEFTLEFTHAND

end of the road wrote: »

actually going on the evidence he didn't bring his death on himself.
he was a thug though.

I thought officers testified that he pulled a pistol on them as he exited the cab? This gun was later found to have been used by an associate in another incident 2 days beforehand. Why else would they gun him down if they didn't feel that there was a threat to their lives.

Widdershins

RayM wrote: »

Whether rioting is "helpful" or not, sometimes angry civil disobedience is the only language those in charge of an inherently violent system understand.

Whether it's helpful is the entire point.

If you think rioting is going to achieve anything you're deluded. And that's England not Zimbabwe I'm talking about, so it's not an inherently violent system. The only violent aspect is the people who think they can smash and shout their way to justice when they're in fact delaying and impending justice and causing more potential death and carnage in the process.

Nobody who cares about people dying in such a tragedy should be condoning rioting in the knowledge that fires are a common outcome of riots. I really do not think the fire service need the stress right now either.