London Fire and Aftermath RIP

A Dub in Glasgo

Widdershins wrote: »

Spotted elsewhere (not my research I should point out and have left in the typos):


1 - the block of flats was run not by any council but by KCTMO. This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.

2 - Lbour hold the seat that the block is situated in.

3 - Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service

4 - incidentally Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.

5 - the advise to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.

6 - the decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.

7 - the decision not to spend a paltry ?138k on fitting sprinklers again KCTMO.

8 - the decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.

9 - this was put in place to give leasehold tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which has clearly proven to be a disaster.

10 - and which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? Yup you guessed it Labour.

11 - Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.

12 -Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.

Can you post your source for this?

For example, numbers 8, 9 & 10 talk about the ability to set up a managment organisation. In fact, KCTMO was set up in 1996 under laws that were introduced in 1994

http://www.kctmo.org.uk/mainpage.php?main_id=8&sub_id=0

KCTMO wrote:

About us

In the early 1990s, the tenants and leaseholders of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea decided to pursue their legal right to manage their own homes. Following two separate ballots in 1994 and 1995, the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation (KCTMO) was established on 1 April 1996 and the responsibility for managing 9,760 properties passed from The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea to the Tenant Management Organisation.

The Council still owns the properties and retains responsibility for strategic housing policies and homeless people. The relationship between KCTMO and the Council is governed by a Management Agreement, which covers all areas of the landlord business. Whilst KCTMO still enjoys a close working relationship with the Council, it is a completely separate company.

Such blatent mis-information can only have come from a source who wants to deflect issues to Labour

Widdershins

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Can you post your source for this?

For example, numbers 8, 9 & 10 talk about the ability to set up a managment organisation except KCTMO was set up in 1996 under laws that were introduced in 1994



Such blatent mis-information can only have come from a source who wants to deflect issues to Labour

That is the format I read it in, anything that doesn't sound right can be Googled to confirm or otherwise.

I think that's quite a prejudiced remark, people are highly interested in apportioning blame, it's no wonder some want to make sure it's apportioned to the right people.

It looks like the only blatant misiniformation there is is being underminded by those very points I shared. People should be allowed to make their minds up.

devnull

Widdershins wrote: »

That is the format I read it in, anything that doesn't sound right can be Googled to confirm or otherwise.

Why don't you post the link of where you read it?

It looks like the only blatant misiniformation there is is being underminded by those very points I shared. People should be allowed to make their minds up.

You lack serious credibility when you post something you claim you read elsewhere, but refuse to say where it was.

Normally when people do this, it is because of the fact they know the source cannot be trusted and would be quickly tore apart by others.

Widdershins

devnull wrote: »

Why don't you post the link of where you read it?



You lack serious credibility when you post something you claim you read elsewhere, but refuse to say where it was.

Normally when people do this, it is because of the fact they know the source cannot be trusted and would be quickly tore apart by others.

Because it was posted in exactly that format on my friend's Facebook page. I'm not linking people on Boards to her page!

Of course it could be ''torn apart'' if people wish to Google anything they don't believe and prove that it's incorrect. I'm not preventing anyone from doing so. Why have you not done so yet?

A Dub in Glasgo

Widdershins wrote: »

That is the format I read it in, anything that doesn't sound right can be Googled to confirm or otherwise.

I think that's quite a prejudiced remark, people are highly interested in apportioning blame, it's no wonder some want to make sure it's apportioned to the right people.

It looks like the only blatant misiniformation there is is being underminded by those very points I shared. People should be allowed to make their minds up.

You posted stuff that is inaccurate and I have highlighted a couple of areas at least. You need to take accountibility for the stuff you post not just say I found this somewhere so must be accurate.

Widdershins

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You posted stuff that is inaccurate and I have highlighted a couple of areas at least. You need to take accountibility for the stuff you post not just say I found this somewhere so must be accurate.

You haven't really. The majority of it would be quite serious, unless that can be shown to be incorrect.

Go ahead and look it up, I'm not doing the tit for tat comments for the sake of it.

devnull

Widdershins wrote: »

Because it was posted in exactly that format on my friend's Facebook page. I'm not linking people on Boards to her page!

So you admit you trust something on the basis that your friend posted it on Facebook and therefore it must be true despite the fact there is nothing to back it up or no verifiable sources?

It's the kind of stuff that is responsible for many of the divisions in the UK right now, the likes of the Daily Mail and the Daily Express and the Sun printing wildly speculative articles with absolutely nothing to back them up.

I'm not preventing anyone from doing so. Why have you not done so yet?

If someone is going to make a claim they should be able to back it up, if you believe it is fact I would guess that you have something that proves to you what was posted is correct.

Or are you one of these people who turns on the TV or picks up a paper and believes that as it is in the news it must be true?

Widdershins

I hope you've made known your objection to all the speculation and especially Lilly Alan's claims of off the record info?

I'm able to use Google, I'm not sure what's holding you back?

devnull

Widdershins wrote: »

You haven't really. The majority of it would be quite serious, unless that can be shown to be incorrect.

In order for something to be correct, you need to prove it.

dav3

Widdershins wrote: »

Because it was posted in exactly that format on my friend's Facebook page. I'm not linking people on Boards to her page!

Of course it could be ''torn apart'' if people wish to Google anything they don't believe and prove that it's incorrect. I'm not preventing anyone from doing so. Why have you not done so yet?

Are you saying your "friend" carried out this "research" all on her own? I'm going to have to call bullsh*t on that one.
Why don't you ask her where she got this research from?

devnull

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm able to use Google, I'm not sure what's holding you back?

Anyone can post anything on a forum or on social media, it doesn't make it true.

If you believe what was posted is true, why don't you back it up?

A Dub in Glasgo

Widdershins wrote: »

You haven't really. The majority of it would be quite serious, unless that can be shown to be incorrect.

Go ahead and look it up, I'm not doing the tit for tat comments for the sake of it.

Let me get this straight, you do not think I have shown inaccuracy for your statement in item 8???

The KCTMO website says it was set up in 1996 - that is a straight contradiction of your point 8 which states 2002 - I think I believe the KCTMO rather than your anonymous source. Also it cannot be set up in 1996 under legislation from 2002 so that is another direct contradiction. In fact, the legisation was enacted in 1994 which demolishes your point 10

I did not bother to check any of your other points after that

A Dub in Glasgo

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm able to use Google, I'm not sure what's holding you back?

FFS, you are actually serious??

Yourself isit

orangerhyme wrote: »

Shes quoted as saying that she spent first 9 years of her life in a council flat in Hammersmith. Her mom was a single mom at 17. Parents divorced at 4. Dad Keith was absent. She did attend private schools though.

I wouldnt say she was dirt poor but certainly was disadvantaged.

If she was disadvantaged then most people are.

ArmaniJeanss

Widdershins wrote: »

Spotted elsewhere (not my research I should point out and have left in the typos):


1 - the block of flats was run not by any council but by KCTMO. This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.

2 - Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.

Number 2 is bizarre - Labour (Emma Coad) took the seat last Friday morning, the Conservatives previously held it since its inception in 1974.
Quite what devastating point 'labour hold the seat the block is located in' is supposed to make has me baffled.

orangerhyme

Yourself isit wrote: »

If she was disadvantaged then most people are.

Most people dont grow up in council flats to a single mom with 3 kids.

Harry Palmr

58 known to be in tower assumed to be dead including the 30 accounted for (that was not clear in the statement)

ArmaniJeanss

For information purposes Guido Fawkes rabidly rightwing website seems to be the original source of the 12 point list.

mikeybrennan

Sprinklers would cost a multiple of 138k

2 experts on radio 4 this morning said 250k is only a base price,doesn't include asbestos works etc.

Harry Palmr

The pipe work might cost that, the fitting would be 10 times as much probably.

mikeybrennan

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The pipe work might cost that, the fitting would be 10 times as much probably.

Well over a million imo

Yourself isit

orangerhyme wrote: »

Most people dont grow up in council flats to a single mom with 3 kids.

In fact 50% of people lived in council houses in the UK at one stage. Her mother was a film producer. Having 3 kids was a decision she made and probably helped her get a council house. After you get one it's hard to kick families out. If you look at wiki her mother's career took off in the 90's.

The father was a famous comedian. Later on she attended the private schools that included prince Charles. She's posh.

devnull

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

For information purposes Guido Fawkes rabidly rightwing website seems to be the original source of the 12 point list.

Saw it a few times in a few articles on the comments section of the Daily Mail also.

ChikiChiki

orangerhyme wrote: »

Shes trying to use her celebrity status to give a voice to the voiceless. Perhaps too little, too late but its commendable. She could just stay at home and sit on her arse doing nothing.
She seems to have genuine compassion and empathy. She grew up on a council estate in London so shes not so far removed as one might imagine.

Theres plenty of people who are paid by taxpayers to represent these people who are completely absent and saying and doing nothing, Boris Johnson for example.

Lily Allen attended school in Leixlip, Co Kildare for a fair bit of her childhood.

I disagree with her on so much but she is completly right to speak on this instance.

orangerhyme

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Lily Allen attended school in Leixlip, Co Kildare for a fair bit of her childhood.

I disagree with her on so much but she is completly right to speak on this instance.

I think I'm a little bias cos I find her very attractive.

bodhrandude

Orangerhyme was that the correct footage I posted earlier of the French high rise fire from 2012?

Murrisk

orangerhyme wrote: »

Shes trying to use her celebrity status to give a voice to the voiceless. Perhaps too little, too late but its commendable. She could just stay at home and sit on her arse doing nothing.
She seems to have genuine compassion and empathy. She grew up on a council estate in London so shes not so far removed as one might imagine.

Lily Allen grew up in a comfortably well-off middle class family, contrary to her image. She attended several very expensive schools. She only lived briefly in a council estate. She's a consummate media whore. Her griping about the police and government lying about the death toll is ill-thought-out and inflammatory.

retro:electro

Murrisk wrote: »

Lily Allen grew up in a comfortably well-off middle class family, contrary to her image. She attended several very expensive schools. She only lived briefly in a council estate. She's a consummate media whore. Her griping about the police and government lying about the death toll is ill-thought-out and inflammatory.

Agreed. She's trying to ignite a class war. Who that is actually going to help is beyond me.

Memnoch

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

FFS, you are actually serious??

It's all beside the point. The government has cut council budgets massively. This results in gaps, in social care for the elderly, in housing, in fire safety, in policing etc etc etc. This is down to the government's austerity agenda.

Trying to blame this on just one local council as a LOCAL issue is disingenuous. (Though they are certainly not innocent either.)

The government have voted down regulation to improve safety standards and have ignored reports from as recently as two years ago about the serious risks that have been posed.

Of course right wing blogs and press will try and deflect the issue and find any number of useful 'friends' online who will copy and paste verbatim without checking facts or considering the reality of the ideology of austerity, privitisation and deregulation behind such tragedies.

Memnoch

anna080 wrote: »

Agreed. She's trying to ignite a class war. Who that is actually going to help is beyond me.

In case you didn't notice, the class war has been going on for a few decades now.

While millions in the UK have seen their income and living standards fall, the very rich have gotten even richer after the financial crisis.

Now policing is cut, fire fighting is cut, social care is cut. Money is spent bombing middle eastern countries into failed states resulting in terrorist havens and flooding refugees into the EU.

Ordinary people pay the price for all this with their lives.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-02-20-30000-excess-deaths-2015-linked-cuts-health-and-social-care

Disabled people commit suicide after being declared fit for work by an inhumane assessment system.