London Fire and Aftermath RIP

123shooter

mikeybrennan wrote: »

I read that the main contractor for the refurb is a conservative party donor.

150k

And if true.......so what?

tara73

mikeybrennan wrote: »

I read that the main contractor for the refurb is a conservative party donor.

150k

do you have a source?

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

It was classism, pure and simple. The last acceptable form of discrimination. One protester summed it up shouting "we live in the same area as the rich but our children go to different schools and our safety is worth less". It's as bad as racism or sexism but it's not fashionable to deal with.

so the kids from Ladbroke Grove should be bussed to Kinghtsbridge everyday so they can go to School there?

Water John

The 'Right Boys' are out in force here, this morning.
I don't mind people making small donations to various political parties. But 150K, if correct, (source needed), that buys you a lot. Lets not be naive here. We, in Ireland, remember, the Galway tent.

Fratton Fred

Water John wrote: »

The 'Right Boys' are out in force here, this morning.
I don't mind people making small donations to various political parties. But 150K, if correct, (source needed), that buys you a lot. Lets not be naive here. We, in Ireland, remember, the Galway tent.

so here's the actual story then http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-donor-owned-stake-refurb-10637010

A Tory donor’s private equity firm was a big investor in the construction company accused of saving £5,000 with cheaper, more flammable cladding at Grenfell Tower .

Mayfair-based Coller Capital owned a fifth of Rydon Construction, via a partnership based offshore in Jersey, when the work started on the £8.6 million refurbishment at the block in 2014.

Coller boss and founder Jeremy Coller donated £15,000 to the Tory party in July 2015.

Omnis, which supplied Reynobond panels for the project, confirmed it sold the version that cost £2 a square metre less than the more fire–resistant option.

It is just this type of choice that was covered by Part B of the review of fire regulations Theresa May’s chief of staff Gavin Barwell promised the Commons in October.

so a guy who donated £15k to the Tory party, works for a company that owns 20% of Rydon.

ohnonotgmail

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so here's the actual story then http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-donor-owned-stake-refurb-10637010



so a guy who donated £15k to the Tory party, works for a company that owns 20% of Rydon.

so 15,000 not 150,00 and the donation occurred after the construction work started. a slightly different story then.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so the kids from Ladbroke Grove should be bussed to Kinghtsbridge everyday so they can go to School there?

Unlike yourself I don't believe in segregated education Fred. That's all to be said. It adds to class division.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Unlike yourself I don't believe in segregated education Fred. That's all to be said. It adds to class division.

oooh, touchy.

I look forward to DCC setting up the transport system for the kids from Ballymun to travel down to Ballsbridge each day.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

oooh, touchy.

I look forward to DCC setting up the transport system for the kids from Ballymun to travel down to Ballsbridge each day.

Why Ballsbridge? There are kids in Ballymun and Fermot getting scholarships to St.Gerards in Bray. I doubt Ballsbridge is as much a problem. Anyway that doesn't compare with the huge class discrepancy in UK education.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why Ballsbridge? There are kids in Ballymun and Fermot getting scholarships to St.Gerards in Bray. I doubt Ballsbridge is as much a problem. Anyway that doesn't compare with the huge class discrepancy in UK education.

how do you propose kids from Ladbroke Grove and kids from Knightsbridge go to school together then. Should they build one massive great big school and all the kids from the borough have to go to it?

Some areas are wealthy, some poor, that is called a "Fact of Life".

Widdershins

Pg1
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19396843_1542030172538333_4809128076239113518_n.jpg?oh=406956e8833d7102428ee28488a68dae&oe=59C87F62

Pg 2 https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19396599_1542030169205000_4622714497103164616_n.jpg?oh=dc2ebe84de4877fe6258da3ac16e0e95&oe=599C7F1D


Pg3

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19399217_1542030182538332_1870089694482280327_n.jpg?oh=0b1a0f451ff7697ad1cc5a7ea0e81670&oe=59D217D2


I don't know if this link will work, it's part of the official statement from Theresa May. I have to say I'm impressed, putting a roof over their heads and feeding them instead of emoting for the cameras like Corbyn has done.

tara73

jesus, your Tory against Labour stuff and vice versa is really starting to get on my nerves at this stage. anybody who thinks any party or politician is better than the other also believes in the physical appearance of Santa Claus.

Take your Labour/Tory promotion to some other thread!!

steddyeddy

Widdershins wrote: »

Pg1
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19396843_1542030172538333_4809128076239113518_n.jpg?oh=406956e8833d7102428ee28488a68dae&oe=59C87F62

Pg 2 https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19396599_1542030169205000_4622714497103164616_n.jpg?oh=dc2ebe84de4877fe6258da3ac16e0e95&oe=599C7F1D


Pg3

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19399217_1542030182538332_1870089694482280327_n.jpg?oh=0b1a0f451ff7697ad1cc5a7ea0e81670&oe=59D217D2


I don't know if this link will work, it's part of the official statement from Theresa May. I have to say I'm impressed, putting a roof over their heads and feeding them instead of emoting for the cameras like Corbyn has done.

In fairness you can't say Corbyn wouldn't have done that if he was in power.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

In fairness you can't say Corbyn wouldn't have done that if he was in power.

similarly, you can't say for certain that he would have.

on another note, if my aunt had balls.....

ohnonotgmail

Fratton Fred wrote: »

similarly, you can't say for certain that he would have.

on another note, if my aunt had balls.....

so you criticise Corbyn for not doing something he doesnt have the power to do yet laud May for only doing something now that she should have done days ago? Do i have that right?

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

how do you propose kids from Ladbroke Grove and kids from Knightsbridge go to school together then. Should they build one massive great big school and all the kids from the borough have to go to it?

Some areas are wealthy, some poor, that is called a "Fact of Life".

Fred I take it you're taking the p1ss but you know the barriers to decent education are not just transport based. You are aware fees are charged too.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

similarly, you can't say for certain that he would have.

on another note, if my aunt had balls.....

Ridiculous statement. Corbyn's a socialist as were his manifesto policies.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Fred I take it you're taking the p1ss but you know the barriers to decent education are not just transport based. You are aware fees are charged too.

there's loads of barriers to good education, but to simply come out with a statement that "Our children go to different schools" is stupid.

In an ideal world, every child gets the same opportunities to attend the best schools, but this isn't an ideal world. The only way to stop this, is to take away parents choices and make them send their children to a designated school, but this isn't 1950s Russia, so that isn't likely to happen.

tara73

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/manufacturer-of-cladding-on-grenfell-tower-identified-as-omnis-exteriors

probably been posted before but here, at the end of the articel, I have my answer I was looking for since this tragedy happened:
In the UK there are no regulations requiring the use of fire-retardant material in cladding used on the exterior of tower blocks and schools. But the Fire Protection Association (FPA), an industry body, has been pushing for years for the government to make it a statutory requirement for local authorities and companies to use only fire-retardant material. Jim Glocking, technical director of the FPA, said it had “lobbied long and hard” for building regulations on the issue to be tightened, but nothing had happened.

shocking and very, very sad.

Fratton Fred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ridiculous statement. Corbyn's a socialist as were his manifesto policies.

what

so he would have handled the situation well based purely on him being a socialist?

wes

David Cameron: I will kill off safety culture


'We need to realise, collectively, that we cannot eliminate risk and that some accidents are inevitable,' PM says

Prime Minister David Cameron today said that his new year's resolution was to "kill off the health and safety culture for good".

Health and safety legislation has become an "albatross around the neck of British businesses", costing them billions of pounds a year and leaving entrepreneurs in fear of speculative claims, he said.

Click here for full article

Says it all I think. Appalling nonsense from the right. Did a quick search on "Daily Mail Health and Safety" and there are a lot of nonsense they published against it:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=daily+mail+health+and+safety&oq=daily+mail+health+and+saf&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l3.4223j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Its interesting to compare there old head lines to there most recent ones.

wes

Fratton Fred wrote: »

what

so he would have handled the situation well based purely on him being a socialist?

Well, looking at what the last Tory leader had to say about Health and Safety, I would think Corbyn or anyone not a Tory would have done a better job, or any party, where a lot of the MPs are also land lords.

mikeybrennan

tara73 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/manufacturer-of-cladding-on-grenfell-tower-identified-as-omnis-exteriors

probably been posted before but here, at the end of the articel, I have my answer I was looking for since this tragedy happened:
In the UK there are no regulations requiring the use of fire-retardant material in cladding used on the exterior of tower blocks and schools. But the Fire Protection Association (FPA), an industry body, has been pushing for years for the government to make it a statutory requirement for local authorities and companies to use only fire-retardant material. Jim Glocking, technical director of the FPA, said it had “lobbied long and hard” for building regulations on the issue to be tightened, but nothing had happened.

shocking and very, very sad.

The Tories have to take the blame for doing nothing on fire safety since the Lakanale report came out

123shooter

Health and safety culture would be different to installing proper safety equipment in blocks of flats.

Even though a government isn't involved in this you are still trying to find a way of blaming them.:rolleyes:

Why don't you blame Trump as well why you are at it. He must have been within 100 miles of these flats once in his life so he has got to be involved.:rolleyes:

Widdershins

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you criticise Corbyn for not doing something he doesnt have the power to do yet laud May for only doing something now that she should have done days ago? Do i have that right?

But she did do it days ago!

Even if you read the letter you'd see that it is dated the 16th of June and that's addressing further efforts to what was *already* done before *then*!

Of course she should be lauded for doing everything that's needed, it's worth reading those links to see how much she's taking care of. I don't think she's overlooked anything.

Credit where it's due and less of the tribalism would go a long, long way to making Britan a better, calmer place.

You don't have to agree with someone's political party to recognise their humanity and efforts and all shes been getting is criticisim for allegedly not emoting *enough*, then she was driven off by a pre-arranged mob who were waiting for her when she attempted to visit with survivors for a second time at a church.

It's become almost sadly farcical the way people are being conditioned to act like she personally set the fire and this is all to the benefit of agitators who are pushing the insane ''ethnic cleansing'' angle.

As for what Corbyn could've done, all he did was photo bomb the survivors and talk about property requisitions, hijacking the tragedy to push his devious agenda, like a vulture. I had high hopes of him but all respect has been lost now. It might come back if he vocally denounces the mobs and the days of rage nonsense.

tara73

mikeybrennan wrote: »

The Tories have to take the blame for doing nothing on fire safety since the Lakanale report came out

yes, although I find the Tory/Labour discussion tiring, this is a fact.

wes

123shooter wrote: »

Health and safety culture would be different to installing proper safety equipment in blocks of flats.

No it isn't, that is just nonsense from right wing rags like the Daily Mail, and there ilk. They have managed to convince people, that there own health and safety is a bad thing, with there constant lies and exaggerations. Those publications are imo utterly vile.

123shooter wrote: »

Even though a government isn't involved in this you are still trying to find a way of blaming them.:rolleyes:

How is it not the governments fault? They took a stance against health and safety. A bunch of Tory MPs are land lords, who voted against this bill:

Tories vote down law requiring landlords make their homes fit for human habitation


Then, we have the residents who were ignored about there concerns in regards to the fire safety and in one case threatened with legal action:

Two women feared dead in Grenfell Tower were 'threatened with legal action' after questioning fire safety


It pretty clear, that the Tory's screwed up, as evidenced against there anti health and safety stance, and there votes against habitable homes. Again I note, that a lot of the MPs were land lords as well.

Fratton Fred

wes wrote: »

Well, looking at what the last Tory leader had to say about Health and Safety, I would think Corbyn or anyone not a Tory would have done a better job, or any party, where a lot of the MPs are also land lords.

good god, this thread is now going off in to pure political overload.

its actually pretty sickening that people use something like this just for petty point scoring. :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

Widdershins wrote: »

But she did do it days ago!

Even if you read the letter you'd see that it is dated the 16th of June and that's addressing further efforts to what was *already* done before *then*!

Of course she should be lauded for doing everything that's needed, it's worth reading those links to see how much she's taking care of. I don't think she's overlooked anything.

Credit where it's due and less of the tribalism would go a long, long way to making Britan a better, calmer place.

You don't have to agree with someone's political party to recognise their humanity and efforts and all shes been getting is criticisim for allegedly not emoting *enough*, then she was driven off by a pre-arranged mob who were waiting for her when she attempted to visit with survivors for a second time at a church.

It's become almost sadly farcical the way people are being conditioned to act like she personally set the fire and this is all to the benefit of agitators who are pushing the insane ''ethnic cleansing'' angle.

As for what Corbyn could've done, all he did was photo bomb the survivors and talk about property requisitions, hijacking the tragedy to push his devious agenda, like a vulture. I had high hopes of him but all respect has been lost now. It might come back if he vocally denounces the mobs and the days of rage nonsense.

the people affected were still depending on charity on the 16th. nothing had actually been done. And what humanity are you referring to? hiding from residents and legging out a side entrance? Saying that the situation is too dangerous and yet a 90 year old woman managed to pay a visit? a little bit of humanity goes a long way in situations like this. May displayed none. Corbyn showed genuine empathy. he didnt photobomb anybody. he met this victims and actually spoke to them as people.

mikeybrennan

tara73 wrote: »

yes, although I find the Tory/Labour discussion tiring, this is a fact.

They stalled the review of fire safety