The Offseason 2017

ButtersSuki

Celtics - Cavs Trade still not finalised. Cavs taking the p*ss IMO.

Boston still have a lot of picks in the coming years though:

Eyes Down Field

The Cavs asking for more is funny as by my interpretation, The deal is already lobsided in their favour.

The only reason for them to renegotiate or cancel the trade is if IT really is fcked.

rushfan

The Cavs are something else. It's almost like they've just discovered IT had a hip injury out of the blue. The dogs in the street knew.

LuckyLloyd

Do the Celts want to keep IT though?

For Forks Sake

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Do the Celts want to keep IT though?

I'd say they sure don't want to pay him what he wants ($180m+/5 years) for 29 year old would hamper them significantly when all the guys on the roster currently on rookie-scale contracts need to be paid. Getting a 25-year old Kyrie is an upgrade on the court and off ( 2 years left on a relatively palatable salary $18/20m p.a). And then there's the matter of ITs injury..

ButtersSuki

Celtics threw in another pick to seal the deal. Bonkers.

ButtersSuki

Meant to mention this last week - on one of the pods (I think Open Floor) they were saying how much Boston fans (obviously not all) hate Kyrie and love IT. There was a genuine feeling (in sports fans logic) that they'd rather lose with IT than win with Kyrie. Whilst that'll change pretty quickly if they win, it shows the love for IT, and the disdain for anything LeBron/Cavs-related in Boston.

As a Boston fan, I'm sad to see him and Crowder go, but it's an upgrade. Kyrie is a superstar, and it's a superstar league.

Whether they gave up too much to acquire him is another question that we'll only know the answer too after the season ends, or maybe in a few years.

LuckyLloyd

Quite the haul from Cleveland. I like their prospects for a return trip to the finals and think they're in much better shape to handle LeBron's departure.

Boston have three excellent core pieces now though so both teams should be happy.

Hazys

IMO the Celtics should have given them nothing but giving up a 2nd round pick in 2020 is basically nothing, a small price to pay to avoid the disaster of the deal falling through. The Celtics would have had to deal with the awkward situation of taking IT and Crowder back and the messed up chemistry that would bring. While Cleveland knows that Irving is going to be traded regardless so they had very little to lose by the deal falling through, they could just settle for their 2nd best offer and they messed up their biggest rival in the East.

Cleveland comes out looking sketchy as fcuk after all this and all other teams will be very wary of working with them again. They gained a 2020 2nd round pick but each negotiation with any other team just got a little harder as no team believes they will negotiate a trade in good faith.

Just say Boston lied about IT's medical situation (which all signs point to that they didn't) and Cleveland was pissed so they asked for Tatum or Brown (who are worth at least a high 1st round pick each) to be added to the deal to make it fair. When Boston refused to give them Tatum or Brown, if Cleveland were that worried about the fairness of the deal they wouldn't have settled for a 2nd round pick, they would have cancelled the deal.

This stinks of the Cleveland realizing that the Celtics would be screwed if the agreed upon deal fell through, so lets squeeze them for more picks or players. The cheek of them to ask for Tatum or Brown and then accepting a 2020 2nd round pick is unreal.

ButtersSuki

Hazys wrote: »

IMO the Celtics should have given them nothing but giving up a 2nd round pick in 2020 is basically nothing, a small price to pay to avoid the disaster of the deal falling through. The Celtics would have had to deal with the awkward situation of taking IT and Crowder back and the messed up chemistry that would bring. While Cleveland knows that Irving is going to be traded regardless so they had very little to lose by the deal falling through, they could just settle for their 2nd best offer and they messed up their biggest rival in the East.

Cleveland comes out looking sketchy as fcuk after all this and all other teams will be very wary of working with them again. They gained a 2020 2nd round pick but each negotiation with any other team just got a little harder as no team believes they will negotiate a trade in good faith.

Just say Boston lied about IT's medical situation (which all signs point to that they didn't) and Cleveland was pissed so they asked for Tatum or Brown (who are worth at least a high 1st round pick each) to be added to the deal to make it fair. When Boston refused to give them Tatum or Brown, if Cleveland were that worried about the fairness of the deal they wouldn't have settled for a 2nd round pick, they would have cancelled the deal.

This stinks of the Cleveland realizing that the Celtics would be screwed if the agreed upon deal fell through, so lets squeeze them for more picks or players. The cheek of them to ask for Tatum or Brown and then accepting a 2020 2nd round pick is unreal.

I'm a Celtics fan, but if I was a Cavs fan I'd be delighted with my team for getting more.

Hazys

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm a Celtics fan, but if I was a Cavs fan I'd be delighted with my team for getting more.

I'm sure they are but I can only presume that that 2nd round pick came at a price for their GM.

I'm a Celtic's fan too, I'm not worried about losing the 2nd round pick at all, it's practically worthless.

nerd69

It could make other teams very slow to deal with cleavland though

ButtersSuki

nerd69 wrote: »

It could make other teams very slow to deal with cleavland though

I don't see how it does really. Boston SCREWED the Nets a few years back in the KG & Pierce trade, but no-one said much about that except laugh at the Nets and admire Boston for pulling off the deal. This is kinda the same. Though it's now ultimately 5 players (incl. a current All Star) for 1, which is insane. Provided the IT injury clears fully, IT + Crowder does make Cleveland stronger for next year. To see if Boston are better, we'll just have to wait and see; but given the age and salary differences, it likely makes Boston more relevant in 2,3,4 and beyond years.

nerd69

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I don't see how it does really. Boston SCREWED the Nets a few years back in the KG & Pierce trade, but no-one said much about that except laugh at the Nets and admire Boston for pulling off the deal. This is kinda the same. Though it's now ultimately 5 players (incl. a current All Star) for 1, which is insane. Provided the IT injury clears fully, IT + Crowder does make Cleveland stronger for next year. To see if Boston are better, we'll just have to wait and see; but given the age and salary differences, it likely makes Boston more relevant in 2,3,4 and beyond years.

It's not about what they got it's about how the cabs seemed to have agreed the deal and then went back once it was announced to hold a team to ransom that's not screwing a team its negotiating dishonestly. If a team gets screws a team gets screws but if you a team doing a deal with the cavs you would wounded if they would pull the same stunt with you and that would certainly make me hesitant

Gregk961

Anybody been following Eurobasket? Mostly been watching highlights but will probably start tuning into full games(if they are streamable) once the knockouts start. Just watched coach Nick's video on Lauri, looks impressive enough against some solid teams like France and Poland.

ButtersSuki

Cavs reportedly shopping the Nets pick already.....looking to do a deal on it before the season starts.

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

Anybody been following Eurobasket? Mostly been watching highlights but will probably start tuning into full games(if they are streamable) once the knockouts start. Just watched coach Nick's video on Lauri, looks impressive enough against some solid teams like France and Poland.

Unfort. no, very busy at the mo. It's a tournament I've attended in the past and is a really top notch event for the purist/nerd. Some top class talent on display too.

2smiggy

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Cavs reportedly shopping the Nets pick already.....looking to do a deal on it before the season starts.

any chance the Nets are not going to be as bad as many people think ?

Are the Cavs a bit nervous

ButtersSuki

2smiggy wrote: »

any chance the Nets are not going to be as bad as many people think ?

Are the Cavs a bit nervous

Yup. Every chance. It was apparently the reason Boston included the pick in the trade!

According to a podcast i listened to last week Boston's analytics team ran the projections for next year and figure the Nets will secure enough wins to take them into the likely 6-9 positions in the draft. Anything can happen in the Lottery of course but you really want to be looking at your best chance of being in the 1-3 bracket.

The Nets were good towards the end of the last year and should be able to carry some of that forward. They've lost Lopez, but will likely be better. And crucially, they're in the East - that's a huge advantage in terms of the difficulty of your schedule.

here's one predcited over/under for each team:
Over 60 wins

Golden State Warriors - 67.5

Over 50 wins

Boston Celtics - 56.5

Houston Rockets - 55.5

San Antonio Spurs - 54.5

Cleveland Cavaliers - 53.5

Oklahoma City Thunder - 51.5

Over 40 wins

Toronto Raptors - 48.5

Minnesota Timberwolves - 48.5

Milwaukee Bucks - 47.5

Washington Wizards - 47.5

Denver Nuggets - 45.5

LA Clippers - 43.5

Miami Heat - 43.5

Charlotte Hornets - 42.5

Philadelphia 76ers - 42.5

Portland Trail Blazers- 42.5

Utah Jazz - 40.5

Over 30 wins

New Orleans Pelicans - 39.5

Detroit Pistons - 38.5

Memphis Grizzlies - 37.5

Dallas Mavericks - 35.5

LA Lakers - 33.5

Orlando Magic - 33.5

Indiana Pacers - 31.5

New York Knicks - 30.5

Over 20 wins

Phoenix Suns - 28.5

Brooklyn Nets - 28.5

Sacramento Kings - 28.5

Atlanta Hawks - 25.5

Chicago Bulls - 21.5


I think they will definitely win more than NY, but the bottom of that pile is very crowded. 1 wi here or there can mean all the difference in your seeding; but the fact that they (the Nets) don't have a pick means they have no incentive to tank whereas everyone around them will. Phoenix, for example, will shut it down completely from March 1st as they did this year. Other teams will do the same.

nerd69

Could be as simple as they want a useable asset to encourage lebron to stay

ButtersSuki

nerd69 wrote: »

Could be as simple as they want a useable asset to encourage lebron to stay

Yup. True, but I'd be SHOCKED beyond belief if he stays. At least f they keep the pick they have options next year.

ButtersSuki

So Chris Paul told GS and Boston he wouldn't re-sign with them if he endd up there in 2011.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732267-report-chris-paul-told-celtics-warriors-he-wouldnt-re-sign-if-traded-in-2011

That worked out well for him..............

ButtersSuki

Si.com's annual Top 100 is posting this week....they've done 100-11, with the Top 10 to come tomorrow (I think).

Interestingly, from a Celtics, perspective they rank Hayward ahead of Kyrie.

ButtersSuki

si.com full Top 100 up now.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/14/nba-top-100-players-2018-lebron-james-stephen-curry-kevin-durant

very interesting read if you're super-nerdy about this stuff. Normally the next OpenFloor Podcast is on this topic so that also should be wirth searching out.

2smiggy

Had a read through most of it during the week. Interesting they had Irving as low, but they make some good points about him. An excellent write up all in all

Gregk961

I usually hate those top 100 lists but that ones is very well put together. Agree with a lot of the rankings aswell its hard to argue with that top 20.

Paully D

Nothing about KD being caught out trying to use fake Twitter accounts to defend himself?

Hilarious stuff:

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nba/2017/09/18/kevin-durant-twitter-fake-account-thunder-billy-donovan-russell-westbrook%3Fsource%3Ddam

LuckyLloyd

Jaysus, what a bitch

NufcNavan

KD has serious issues tbh.

ButtersSuki

Oh wow.....