The Offseason 2017

HigginsJ

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Strong rumours that Phil Jackson is out in New York.

Yea being widely reported, thank **** for that, a year too late but still.

LuckyLloyd

He was utterly atrocious there, one of the most spectacular displays of ego and incompetence I've seen in professional sports in some time.

This, of course, feeds into an assessment of Melo at the Knicks.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The black hole that is Melo offers zero the Cavs. He does not make them better than they currently are. Sure they'll coast the east again if they can keep LeBron and Kyrie healthy, but if they think adding him over Love is a good move they're wrong. Zero D, low boards and an inability to share - that's Melo. Plus he hasn't played in a regular structured offence for years.

If they keep JR and Shump, they'll morph eventually into the 2013 Knicks!

I think your assessment of Melo is mostly nonsense. In terms of D and boards, he's an elite scorer - that's what he brings to the table and it's incumbent upon a GM and coach to understand that and build around it.

In terms of an 'inability to share' his usage rate has declined each of the last two years with KP and Rose in town, down to 29.1% this year.

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I don't get the hate for Love, really don't. Likewise I don't get the love for Melo. I've said it before, he's the kind of guy who'd rather score 50 and lose than 2 and win. He's made some bad choices over the years - going to the Knicks, not going to Chicago - and the only time he's truly excelled since turning pro is as you say as part of loaded US teams.

Plus I see a lot of problems brewing if he doesn't get his 20 shots a night. There's only ball to play with between him, Kyrie and LeBron.

The hate for Love is down to his performances in two Finals in a row - he simply hasn't proved a consistent factor in terms of scoring against the Warriors. This finals proved a big shootout, and in that context having a third option manage less than 10 points in 4 of six games isn't going to cut it. The Cavs would be mad to not try and change something - that would be defeatist.

Melo was traded to the Knicks, he didn't sign there as a free agent. He resigned in 2014 soon after Jackson was onboarded. I'm sure he was made promises regarding what they were going to build around them that have gone unfulfilled. If he goes to Cleveland, I'm sure it will be on the basis of an arrangement with LeBron about his role. He's 33 and a mature athlete in need of a ring and I have no doubt that LeBron wouldn't bring him on if he felt that would be an issue.

He's spent a few years on terrible rosters with the Knicks, with terrible coaches and an egotistic GM insistent on bludgeoning in the Triangle offense despite it not suiting the personnel he has to hand. Despite that, Melo's individual contribution mostly held up well, sans the second half of last year where Jackson started to openly goad him in public.

GoldFour4

Chris Paul being traded to the Rockets today - solid move up in PG for them.

LuckyLloyd

malistheman wrote: »

Chris Paul being traded to the Rockets today - solid move up in PG for them.

Is it a sign and trade?

Edit: Seems it is. He gets his super max; Clippers get assets. A Harden / Paul combo will be very interesting to say the least. Losing Beverley to make it work will hurt, but it gives them some title equity where there was none.

Paully D

West gets tougher again.

Meanwhile, in the East we already know the Cavs have a bye into the Finals yet again before a shot has even been taken.

Such a disparity in competitiveness.

LuckyLloyd

Paully D wrote: »

West gets tougher again.

Meanwhile, in the East we already know the Cavs have a bye into the Finals yet again before a shot has even been taken.

Such a disparity in competitiveness.

We don't know that yet - Boston may make a move for Hayword

ButtersSuki

malistheman wrote: »

Chris Paul being traded to the Rockets today - solid move up in PG for them.

Wow. Didn't see that coming in all honesty. It was a possibility sure, but didn't think that was his most likely destination if he left.

Not sure he has the legs for full on run and gun, but he definitely makes them better. I think they (Houston) easily win the trade grade though as Beverley aside, they didn't really give up all that much.

Eyes Down Field

Paul going to the Rockets doesn't make much sense to me. It doesn't increase his chances of winning in my opinion. And the move weakens the rockets defensively. I would say It's a better deal for The Clippers. They avoided having to pay an aging PG the super max, and they have assets to build a new team.

Sam Dekker, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams and a top-three protected 2018 first-round pick.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HidrjUfdicY

:pac:

Gregk961

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

And the move weakens the rockets defensively.

Do you think Beverly is a better defender than CP? Beverly is a good defender for sure but Paul is one of the best Ive seen at defending point guards. Not even in the same league to be honest, if thats what you meant.

nerd69

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Paul going to the Rockets doesn't make much sense to me. It doesn't increase his chances of winning in my opinion. And the move weakens the rockets defensively. I would say It's a better deal for The Clippers. They avoided having to pay an aging PG the super max, and they have assets to build a new team.

Sam Dekker, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams and a top-three protected 2018 first-round pick.

Apparently doc refused a deal involving Austin and Melo and cp decided that was enough so he left I understand him wanting a change particularly given we have seen that the clippers are going nowhere but

1. Iv said before I don't believe harden will ever be main man on a championship team
2.both harden and Paul are far far better with ball in hand than off ball.

I think I read somewhere that he does not lose much money due to lack of tax in Texas

nerd69

Gregk961 wrote: »

Do you think Beverly is a better defender than CP? Beverly is a good defender for sure but Paul is one of the best Ive seen at defending point guards. Not even in the same league to be honest, if thats what you meant.

Chris was a monster on d I don't think he is anymore I would say right now Beverly is better defensivlet

Gregk961

nerd69 wrote: »

Chris was a monster on d I don't think he is anymore I would say right now Beverly is better defensivlet

I think its a bit soon to call time on Paul being the best Point Guard on the defensive end. He was injured a lot of lost year and I didnt see a lot of the Clippers but the few games I did see he seemed as good as ever.

Its hard to compare him and Beverly because they play different styles of Defense. PB is a physical, specialist defender who can come off the bench and shut another guard down. PG uses his Brain as much as his body to defend and can shut down a teams gameplan as much as any individual player. The pick and roll has grown in usage year on year in the NBA and Paul can disrupt that to the point that the other team changes direction.

ButtersSuki

nerd69 wrote: »

Apparently doc refused a deal involving Austin and Melo and cp decided that was enough so he left I understand him wanting a change particularly given we have seen that the clippers are going nowhere but

1. Iv said before I don't believe harden will ever be main man on a championship team
2.both harden and Paul are far far better with ball in hand than off ball.

I think I read somewhere that he does not lose much money due to lack of tax in Texas

LOL. The untradeable Austin Rivers. LOL. LOL. LOL.

ButtersSuki

The ball-sharing will be an issue for Houston. Harden won't be averaging numbers like he did this year next season that's for sure and it'll take them a while to figure it out, but I do think it makes them better.

Eyes Down Field

Apparently the Celtics believe they can get Hayward and George. That would be a game changer in the east

nerd69

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Apparently the Celtics believe they can get Hayward and George. That would be a game changer in the east

Be interesting to see what they give up for George

snotboogie

nerd69 wrote: »

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Apparently the Celtics believe they can get Hayward and George. That would be a game changer in the east

Be interesting to see what they give up for George

Brown, Tatum and Brooklyn 2018 are all off the table i'd say. If he signs for another two years it'd be something like the La18/Sac19 pick + Crowder + Bradley or Smart. If it's just the one year it could be something like the Memphis19 pick + Crowder.
Thomas/Bradley/Hayward/George/Horford with a bench of Rozier/Tatum/Brown/Yabusele/Zizic is pretty scary

Eyes Down Field

snotboogie wrote:

Brown, Tatum and Brooklyn 2018 are all off the table i'd say. If he signs for another two years it'd be something like the La18/Sac19 pick + Crowder + Bradley or Smart. If it's just the one year it could be something like the Memphis19 pick + Crowder. Thomas/Bradley/Hayward/George/Horford with a bench of Rozier/Tatum/Brown/Yabusele/Zizic is pretty scary

I think you are pretty much bang on with that. You have to keep Jalen Brown and that the first round pick next year is their chance to draft a big like DeAndre Ayton or Mo Bamba.

nerd69

George gone to the thunder aparently

Edit: looks like oladipo and sabonis the other way

Eyes Down Field

Blake Griffin has agreed a 5 year, 173m deal with the Clippers to stay in Los Angeles.

Eyes Down Field

Ricky Rubio will go to The Utah Jazz for a 2018 first round draft pick, top 14 protected. Jeff Teague will replace him in Minnesota form Indiana, according to ESPN.

ButtersSuki

Ainge sitting on his ass and his 10,000 picks while George moves to OKC. Ffs.

LuckyLloyd

ESPN‏ @espn
With Paul George moving West, only 1 of the top 14 players in last year’s #NBARank will be in the Eastern Conference.



Fair play to OKC, have a cut. Ainge is waiting for what?

GoldFour4

Like the move from OKC. Its positive at least - having a go at it next year rather than just watching Russell carry them to a middle seed

Eyes Down Field

If I were a Boston fan. I'd be concerned. There were allot of quality players up for a move this post season and so far none of them are going to Boston, Butler to Minnesota, George to OKC, Chris Paul to Houston. Their only real hope now is Gordon Hayward and according to ESPN Miami is the preferred destination for the Hayward family.

Eyes Down Field

LuckyLloyd wrote:

ESPN†@espn With Paul George moving West, only 1 of the top 14 players in last year’s #NBARank will be in the Eastern Conference.

The East is getting weaker and weaker. Butler and George have left. Is there anything the NBA can do to stop it. What if James leaves next year, The There will literally be nothing left.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

West gets tougher again.

Meanwhile, in the East we already know the Cavs have a bye into the Finals yet again before a shot has even been taken.

Such a disparity in competitiveness.

And again. :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

Minnesota dumping Rubio for a pick and signing Teague for 3 / 57 is excellent business. Rubio is one of the worst starters in the league, some nice gifts but an inability to shoot is poisonous for the offense as a whole.

Ideally Minnesota would now decide to play KAT / Dieng for all of the 5 minutes and never on the court at the same time. But with KAT / Butler / Wiggins / Teague it's a solid core. If they can find some passable wing depth on the cheap they'll be massively improved.

I think the best thing they could do is trade Wiggins tbh, he doesn't really fit there.

ButtersSuki

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

If I were a Boston fan. I'd be concerned. There were allot of quality players up for a move this post season and so far none of them are going to Boston, Butler to Minnesota, George to OKC, Chris Paul to Houston. Their only real hope now is Gordon Hayward and according to ESPN Miami is the preferred destination for the Hayward family.

Seems Ainge tried to lowball every trade, hard to do that when you're sitting on so many picks. To potentially get no-one in the off-season when so many top players were targeted is unforgivable imo. Paul was never in their sights, but Butler and George were, and even Griffin to a degree. Even if they land Hayward, it's like "so what? Is that it?"; it was supposed to be him + someone else! Seriously pissed of right now.

Ballsy but risky move by OKC. All indications are George walks next summer and they've given up two young assets for what ciukd he a rental. I really like Sabonis and his potential upside too so think Indy got a relatively good deal there.