The Offseason 2017

GoldFour4

Jrue holiday gets 5 years and 126m. Outrageous money - they won't have much money to spend with that contract cousins and Davis.

Eyes Down Field

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Minnesota dumping Rubio for a pick and signing Teague for 3 / 57 is excellent business. Rubio is one of the worst starters in the league, some nice gifts but an inability to shoot is poisonous for the offense as a whole.

Looking forward to seeing how the T Wolves play next season. They have done the best business in the offseason so far, acquiring Butler and Teague without really giving up anything significant. KAT and Wiggins are still young players who will only get better, You have an estimated start in Butler and an experienced savy PG in Teague.

ButtersSuki

malistheman wrote: »

Jrue holiday gets 5 years and 126m. Outrageous money - they won't have much money to spend with that contract cousins and Davis.

I can see Boogie being traded in Feb. tbh.

Gregk961

malistheman wrote: »

Jrue holiday gets 5 years and 126m. Outrageous money - they won't have much money to spend with that contract cousins and Davis.

Its a huge contract but they had to resign Holiday. They had no cap room to sign anybody better than him at PG(Patty Mills was a downgrade and would have got an inflated contract too) and if they lose Boogie at the end of the year at least they keep him and Davis and have another crack at a free agent that might be a better fit.

It goes without saying that its a disaster if his injury problems continue this year.

Eyes Down Field

ButtersSuki wrote:

Seems Ainge tried to lowball every trade, hard to do that when you're sitting on so many picks. To potentially get no-one in the off-season when so many top players were targeted is unforgivable imo. Paul was never in their sights, but Butler and George were, and even Griffin to a degree. Even if they land Hayward, it's like "so what? Is that it?"; it was supposed to be him + someone else! Seriously pissed of right now.

I think Boston are making a mistake holding on to Thomas aswell. This was the draft to take a PG. The class of 2018 and 2019, while strong, are devoid of guard talent. They now look to be committed to giving a midget guard, who is a liability on the defensive end, a super max deal.

Why not take Fultz this year, and draft a Center like Ayton or Bamba next. Trade Thomas this year for Butter or George (too late)

Then in 2018 you have

Flutz
Bradley/Smart
George or Butler/ Brown
Horford
Ayton or Bamba

LuckyLloyd

malistheman wrote: »

Jrue holiday gets 5 years and 126m. Outrageous money - they won't have much money to spend with that contract cousins and Davis.

It's slightly more nuanced than that. They have his Bird rights, so they can pay him and have cap exceptions. If he walked, they simply couldn't replace him given their current situation. For sure, he's earning more than he's strictly worth but it's better for the Pelicans to keep him than get a Patty Mills type.

Pyjamarama

Reddick to the sixers for 1 year 23m... amazed he took that given there was multiyear offers on the table. Great signing by the sixers imo. Given how weak the East has become they could easily make the playoffs this year if Joel plays in even 50% of there games.

Eyes Down Field

The Heat seem convinced they have Gordon Hayward secured. They have Hayward banners surrounding American Airlines Arena. With him Miami look like a solid team

Dragic
Waiters
Hayward
Adebayo
Whiteside

LuckyLloyd

https://twitter.com/rudygobert27/status/881336694753984512

https://twitter.com/Isaiah_Thomas/status/881357549584252929

https://twitter.com/youngwhiteside/status/881360855186776065

LuckyLloyd

Love the reddick deal for both parties.

Eyes Down Field

Taj Gibson signs with the T-Wolves. Two Years 28mil.

Eyes Down Field

Raptors resign Lowry 3 years 100m and Ibaka 3 years 65m.

Eyes Down Field

Apparently Indiana contacted Boston before agreeing the trade of George to OKC, giving them an opportunity to make an offer. Boston were reportedly unwilling to part with Marcus Smart or Jaw Crowder or any of their first round draft picks. Boston appear to have also lost the race for Gordon Hayward and will try to get Danilo Galinari, but Galinari looks set to stay in Denver.

Vital Transformation

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Raptors resign Lowry 3 years 100m and Ibaka 3 years 65m.

PJ Tucker signs for Houston after a half season in Toronto. A strong defensive addition.

ButtersSuki

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Apparently Indiana contacted Boston before agreeing the trade of George to OKC, giving them an opportunity to make an offer. Boston were reportedly unwilling to part with Marcus Smart or Jaw Crowder or any of their first round draft picks. Boston appear to have also lost the race for Gordon Hayward and will try to get Danilo Galinari, but Galinari looks set to stay in Denver.

It's not just the PG trade, it's all trades apparently that they're low-balling on. Makes absolutely no sense. If you say you're tanking and accumulating or just accumulating then fine, but they've stated openly the plan was to accumulate to recruit/sign/trade for elite players. They've now blown opportunities for Boogie, Butler, Paul George; and now it looks like Hayward too.

ButtersSuki

The Kings (who else?) offer Otto Porter a max. A max. If Washington match, he'll be (at a stretch) the 3rd/4th best player on that team making $10m per year more than the best player.

Millsap to Denver for $90m over 3 years.

The money is just insane.

snotboogie

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Apparently Indiana contacted Boston before agreeing the trade of George to OKC, giving them an opportunity to make an offer. Boston were reportedly unwilling to part with Marcus Smart or Jaw Crowder or any of their first round draft picks. Boston appear to have also lost the race for Gordon Hayward and will try to get Danilo Galinari, but Galinari looks set to stay in Denver.

It's not just the PG trade, it's all trades apparently that they're low-balling on. Makes absolutely no sense. If you say you're tanking and accumulating or just accumulating then fine, but they've stated openly the plan was to accumulate to recruit/sign/trade for elite players. They've now blown opportunities  for Boogie, Butler, Paul George; and now it looks like Hayward too.

Stevens didn't want Cousins, Chicago wanted a Brooklyn pick a a part of the Butler package, Boston reportedly were willing to offer the Clippers pick, Memphis pick and Jae Crowder for George but wanted to see what happened with Hayward first. When you look at what Chicago got and what Indiana got, Boston were correct in their evaluation that a top three draft pick (Brown or Tatum) or a potential top 5 pick in next years loaded class (the Brooklyn or Lakers pick) was too much for a year of PG or two years of Butler.

Eyes Down Field

ButtersSuki wrote:

The Kings (who else?) offer Otto Porter a max. A max. If Washington match, he'll be (at a stretch) the 3rd/4th best player on that team making $10m per year more than the best player.

For me Porter is just an average NBA player, not worth a max deal. Stupid offer from the Kings. Not worth matching for Washington.

Eyes Down Field

snotboogie wrote:

Stevens didn't want Cousins, Chicago wanted a Brooklyn pick a a part of the Butler package, Boston reportedly were willing to offer the Clippers pick, Memphis pick and Jae Crowder for George but wanted to see what happened with Hayward first. When you look at what Chicago got and what Indiana got, Boston were correct in their evaluation that a top three draft pick (Brown or Tatum) or a potential top 5 pick in next years loaded class (the Brooklyn or Lakers pick) was too much for a year of PG or two years of Butler.

Boston must set a very high value on thoes picks, To the extent that are willing to pass up on established stars like Butler and George. If they can draft 2 or 3 of DeAndre Ayton, Michael Porter Jr, Marvin Bagley or Zion Williamson, them holding on to the picks will look great. But the draft lottery may not go their way

LuckyLloyd

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

For me Porter is just an average NBA player, not worth a max deal. Stupid offer from the Kings. Not worth matching for Washington.

He took quite the leap forward last year though, and shot .434 from 3. The Kings don't have anything to lose and no other options in play, why not gamble that he takes another similar leap forward this year as a guy who just turned 24?

ButtersSuki

snotboogie wrote: »

Stevens didn't want Cousins, Chicago wanted a Brooklyn pick a a part of the Butler package, Boston reportedly were willing to offer the Clippers pick, Memphis pick and Jae Crowder for George but wanted to see what happened with Hayward first. When you look at what Chicago got and what Indiana got, Boston were correct in their evaluation that a top three draft pick (Brown or Tatum) or a potential top 5 pick in next years loaded class (the Brooklyn or Lakers pick) was too much for a year of PG or two years of Butler.

I'm a Boston fan but I don't ever recall anyone in the organisation (let alone Stevens) say they didn't want Boogie - feel free to correct me on that.

Are you seriously telling me considering what Chicago and Indiana settled for that Boston (with all their assets) couldn't better those deals? Both players went on the cheap.

As for 1 or 2 years, not sure why you assume in Butler's case in particular he wouldn't stay longer. As for George, the landscape has shifted to the west so much already this offseason the east is now your easier part to a ring by far. If my choice is join Boston and have a legit shot at the Finals for a number of years or join a rebuilding Lakers in an insanely tough conference it's not really much of a choice is it?

Having all these picks are great but even a truly great pick takes a few years to establish themselves in the NBA. And the number that get to All Star level is fewer still. You don't win in the NBA with one all star backed up by a lot of solid players, you win with multiple elite level players. Butler and George are that. It's primarily (and is becoming even more so) a win now, rather than a building league. They were in play for all of these and somehow came away empty handed.

I don't know what the plan is, and I don't think there's many Boston fans who do right now. They have stated all along that accumulating the pick assets was to trade for superstars, well wait any longer and there'll be none left in the East (yes, I'm joking to highlight a point).

snotboogie

ButtersSuki wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Stevens didn't want Cousins, Chicago wanted a Brooklyn pick a a part of the Butler package, Boston reportedly were willing to offer the Clippers pick, Memphis pick and Jae Crowder for George but wanted to see what happened with Hayward first. When you look at what Chicago got and what Indiana got, Boston were correct in their evaluation that a top three draft pick (Brown or Tatum) or a potential top 5 pick in next years loaded class (the Brooklyn or Lakers pick) was too much for a year of PG or two years of Butler.

I'm a Boston fan but I don't ever recall anyone in the organisation (let alone Stevens) say they didn't want Boogie - feel free to correct me on that.

Are you seriously telling me considering what Chicago and Indiana settled for that Boston (with all their assets) couldn't better those deals? Both players went on the cheap.

As for 1 or 2 years, not sure why you assume in Butler's case in particular he wouldn't stay longer. As for George, the landscape has shifted to the west so much already this offseason the east is now your easier part to a ring by far. If my choice is join Boston and have a legit shot at the Finals for a number of years or join a rebuilding Lakers in an insanely tough conference it's not really much of a choice is it?

Having all these picks are great but even a truly great pick takes a few years to establish themselves in the NBA. And the number that get to All Star level is fewer still. You don't win in the NBA with one all star backed up by a lot of solid players, you win with multiple elite level players. Butler and George are that. It's primarily (and is becoming even more so) a win now, rather than a building league. They were in play for all of these and somehow came away empty handed.

I don't know what the plan is, and I don't think there's many Boston fans who do right now. They have stated all along that accumulating the pick assets was to trade for superstars, well wait any longer and there'll be none left in the East (yes, I'm joking to highlight a point).

Zach Lowe reported it, I'd trust his sources:

"I don't think Brad Stevens wants to touch DeMarcus Cousins with a 10-foot pole. And that carries a lot of weight there. Not only that, they just signed a center. And they think Al Horford is a center, and will play more center as pieces come and go in Boston. And so I don't know what that does to Boston's hunger to acquire a superstar big man who is going to be a locker room question mark."
[font=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Boston Celtics trade rumors: ESPN's Zach Lowe does not think Brad Stevens would want to coach DeMarcus Cousins[/font]
Of course Stevens himself won't come out and say it because it would be stupid for him to do so but it has been long reported by those close to the organization that he isn't interested.
I am suggesting that Chicago and Indiana looked at Boston's assets and tried to fleece them. Boston felt they still had the best offer without the major picks and young assets but both teams ultimately held out and looked elsewhere.
I think that the plan is to try and acquire solid talent now while protecting their long term assets. Even if nothing happens this summer, there'll still have the assets to try again next year and the year after. I personally don't see the rush. While exciting; a Thomas, Smart, Hayward, George, Horford team isn't beating the Warriors and that's the best case scenario. What if you trade a pick and two starters for George and Hayward goes to Miami anyway. Then you lose in the ECF, George bounces off the LA and you are in the same situation next year minus the a valuable draft pick and two starters. Butler was a lower risk to take off but the price was higher and he is a worse player than PG.

ButtersSuki

Thanks for that. I'll look at the article later, can't right now. Wasn't having a go btw, just wasn't aware of that.

Not sure PG is better than Butler when you factor Butler's 2 way game in. PG is a better scorer sure, but Butler is a significantly better defender and given Stevens' system and personnel choices I think he would be interested in 2 way players. I'm just a little disillusioned right now as to what is actually going on in Boston because there doesn't seem to be a clear path. They're trying to be significant but not go all in, and accumulate assets at the same time for a longer play. At face value, that seems like a lose lose. Unless Ainge has some master plan that we're all missing here....

Eyes Down Field

I wouldn't want Cousins on a team I support. The guy has talent, but he's a loose cannon, and far too inconsistent. I hope for Boston's sake some of these picks come good. Even if they get the top rookies, they will all need time to develop. Boston should be in win now mode But they seem to be kicking the can further down the road and might not be in a winning position for another 5 years.

Eyes Down Field

LuckyLloyd wrote:

He took quite the leap forward last year though, and shot .434 from 3. The Kings don't have anything to lose and no other options in play, why not gamble that he takes another similar leap forward this year as a guy who just turned 24?

I suppose the Kings have cap space to use, and not many options. It's a sad state to see such an average players get that kind of deal. No way a player like him would live in the 90's early 2000's NBA

ButtersSuki

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

I wouldn't want Cousins on a team I support. The guy has talent, but he's a loose cannon, and far too inconsistent. I hope for Boston's sake some of these picks come good. Even if they get the top rookies, they will all need time to develop. Boston should be in win now mode But they seem to be kicking the can further down the road and might not be in a winning position for another 5 years.

There's simply too much talent with Boogie not at least have a strong look. If any team/coach could handle the Boogie show, I'd imagine Boston and Stevens would be right up there. The Boogie to Boston rumours go back to when KG was a Celtic (seriously), thought if they got him then a lot of the "issues" would have been sorted on a team where he's not the Alpha dog and is surrounded by veterans. I still think he'll be available "4 cheap" in Feb., as I can't see it working out with him and David in NO.

I've read and heard a few reports in the last few weeks that Boston are eyeing Anthony Davis next year. If true, that would be worth the wait, but I just can't see it happening.

LuckyLloyd

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

I suppose the Kings have cap space to use, and not many options. It's a sad state to see such an average players get that kind of deal. No way a player like him would live in the 90's early 2000's NBA

Not sure I'd agree there, he would have been quite an outlier of a player in 2000. Athletic rangy wings who defend well and can be lights out as a spot up shooter are increasingly commonplace, but were thin on the ground in the late nineties big man iso long twos NBA.

Eyes Down Field

Conflicting reports tonight that Hayward has agreed a deal to join Boston according to ESPN's Chris Haynes. However fellow ESPN reporter Adrian Wojnarowski was told by Hayward's agent Mark Bartelstein that no decision has yet been made.

Eyes Down Field

The King have reportedly agreed deals with George Hill and Zach Randolph.

krustydoyle

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Conflicting reports tonight that Hayward has agreed a deal to join Boston according to ESPN's Chris Haynes. However fellow ESPN reporter Adrian Wojnarowski was told by Hayward's agent Mark Bartelstein that no decision has yet been made.

Deal has just been announced... He's off to Boston