The Offseason 2017

ButtersSuki

Hayward to Boston confirmed. A good deal no doubt, but hardly enough to take them to the next level.

LuckyLloyd

IMO the Hayward signing just highlights how big a mistake they made on draft night. Hayward/Crowder are wings and locked up for awhile, they also already have Jaylen Brown a young wing who I assume they're not giving up on. Meanwhile they have 1 PG (IT4) who is undersized, approaching 30, and on the last year of his deal. If they kept their pick and drafted Fultz/Ball they coulda had him backup IT next year and then feel fine about letting IT walk knowing they have their pg of the future. Now they're going to have to probably resign IT to a max, and there is a huge blockade at wing where their two young guys play.

Eyes Down Field

LuckyLloyd wrote:

IMO the Hayward signing just highlights how big a mistake they made on draft night. Hayward/Crowder are wings and locked up for awhile, they also already have Jaylen Brown a young wing who I assume they're not giving up on. Meanwhile they have 1 PG (IT4) who is undersized, approaching 30, and on the last year of his deal. If they kept their pick and drafted Fultz/Ball they coulda had him backup IT next year and then feel fine about letting IT walk knowing they have their pg of the future. Now they're going to have to probably resign IT to a max, and there is a huge blockade at wing where their two young guys play.

It looks like they are committed to IT at PG for the long term. This was the draft to take a PG. Flutz would have been ideal. He knows Thomas with their UW college connection. Why not give a year for Thomas to mentor Fultz, If Fultz is the real deal, he take the reigns. If not, then give Thomas a new deal in 2018.

snotboogie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

IMO the Hayward signing just highlights how big a mistake they made on draft night. Hayward/Crowder are wings and locked up for awhile, they also already have Jaylen Brown a young wing who I assume they're not giving up on. Meanwhile they have 1 PG (IT4) who is undersized, approaching 30, and on the last year of his deal. If they kept their pick and drafted Fultz/Ball they coulda had him backup IT next year and then feel fine about letting IT walk knowing they have their pg of the future. Now they're going to have to probably resign IT to a max, and there is a huge blockade at wing where their two young guys play.

Other teams will also see the issues with IT, who is going to max him for a long term deal? Lowry quietly accepted a 3 year contract from Toronto when every analyst expected him to demand 5. Thomas and Smart will most likely be their two options at the point for the next four years or so. They'll go over the cap and probably have to trade Bradley but half the league will be over the cap. I'd be more worried about the big man situation where they seem to have put a huge amount of faith in Zizic as the only alternative to Horford. Zizic looked out of shape and slow in the summer league game on Monday, one game I know but if he doesn't pan out Boston could be left with one serviceable big man on their roster for next season.

Gregk961

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

IMO the Hayward signing just highlights how big a mistake they made on draft night. Hayward/Crowder are wings and locked up for awhile, they also already have Jaylen Brown a young wing who I assume they're not giving up on. Meanwhile they have 1 PG (IT4) who is undersized, approaching 30, and on the last year of his deal. If they kept their pick and drafted Fultz/Ball they coulda had him backup IT next year and then feel fine about letting IT walk knowing they have their pg of the future. Now they're going to have to probably resign IT to a max, and there is a huge blockade at wing where their two young guys play.

I dont see the problem with commiting to IT, everybody and their dog knows he is a liability on D but I dont see why a player of his ability cant be on a championship winning team. Putting their hopes on Fultz/Ball is kicking the can another few years, which is the very reason people are getting irate about the Celtics not signing every top tier free agent.

Fultz looked good in summer league by the way, not always an indication of NBA talent but coaches often use similar sets to the regular season and he looked comfortable as ever in the PnR.

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Hayward to Boston confirmed. A good deal no doubt, but hardly enough to take them to the next level.

I agree, definitely makes them better, he is an extremely good player with a lot of upside but not sure if you could build a championship team around him.

The deal probably has a bigger effect on the 7th/8th seed in the West rather than making a massive impact on the East

Who knows, he could knock down a half court buzzer beater to win the championship in a few years, oh what a 30 for 30 that would be...lol

ButtersSuki

Boston trying to rework the Hayward trade into a sign and trade to include Crowder. Bit daft as he has the best contract in the NBA and would have been a great tool in any future trade. That aside from it being a bit of a kick in the face for him after a few very good years of service in Beantown.

Meanwhile Fultz lights it up in the Summer League....

snotboogie

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Boston trying to rework the Hayward trade into a sign and trade to include Crowder. Bit daft as he has the best contract in the NBA and would have been a great tool in any future trade. That aside from it being a bit of a kick in the face for him after a few very good years of service in Beantown.

Meanwhile Fultz lights it up in the Summer League....

To be fair Tatum has been absolutely unreal too, particularly last night

Someone said they could trade Jackson and rozier and that would get them under to sign Hayward if that's the case not sure why crowders even in the convorsation he's on one of the best contracts in the league for I think another 3 years

Eyes Down Field

I think both Fultz and Tatum will be high quality players. But I still think Boston should have taken Fultz 1st overall. No the Celtics have no choice to give a 5ft 9 point guard who is a liability on defense. A Supermax deal in 2018. That's bad business.

Pyjamarama

snotboogie wrote: »

To be fair Tatum has been absolutely unreal too, particularly last night

They're both killing it in summer league but there's more to it than just that. Tatum is just physically dominating everyone. He looks like a vet playing against rookies, which is great but not something that automatically translates into the real games.

Fultz is doing it with a different kind of athleticism. His step back is Iverson like. He still has issue (erratic shooting mainly) but i reckon he has the chance to have a bigger initial impact.

Ofc it Tatum develops even more physically (no reason he won't) he's shown he knows how to use those traits.

At the end of the day I think Boston should have taken Fultz as they need a pg of the future more than a forward but Tatum is going to be at worst a good player and at best a superstar.

ButtersSuki

The more I see of Fultz at the next level and the more I think about it the more I agree that Boston should have taken Fultz. Given Thomas' age and defensive liabilities, I feel rolling the dice on Fultz (esp. given what they'd be paying him) would have been a good call.

There really is no reason if you think about it that Boston (with all their assets) couldn't have worked the draft to have landed both Fultz AND Tatum (if they wanted him that badly).

I have a feeling already Fultz will be ROY and a multi-year All Star - esp in the East.

ButtersSuki

Straight outta nowhere Teodosic to the Clippers for 2 years. HUGE move. IMO the best player outside the NBA finally goes to the league. Can't wait to see him play at this level consistently; my only concern is he waited until he was 30 to do it.

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The more I see of Fultz at the next level and the more I think about it the more I agree that Boston should have taken Fultz.

I have a feeling already Fultz will be ROY and a multi-year All Star - esp in the East.

Whoa cool the jets there! The summer league is not quite the next level, I like Fultz too but the summer league MVP list dosnt exactly scream all star(Lillard aside).

Eyes Down Field

Rudy Gay has reached agreement on a two-year, $17.2 million deal with the San Antonio Spurs. The deal includes a player option on the second year.

Adrian Wojnarowski, ESPN.

LuckyLloyd

Looking good in the summer league doesn't matter. Looking bad matters.

ButtersSuki

Gregk961 wrote: »

Whoa cool the jets there! The summer league is not quite the next level, I like Fultz too but the summer league MVP list dosnt exactly scream all star(Lillard aside).

Cool the Jets yourself!

I'm not saying he'll be an All Star this year, but the summer league is always a good test of whether a guy can step up to the level after college and he's shown he can.

i was projecting into the future re. All Star selections. Let's face it, there's going to be some strange All Stars in the coming years if the East continues to lose players to the West like it has recently. You could conceivably see guys becoming all stars in the east in the coming years who're not even top 10 guys in their positions in the league such is the talent level out west,

ButtersSuki

Somehow I missed Olynk going to Miami. Bigger loss than most would think at first glance IMO. Strange set of circumstances conspired to allow it to happen.

Gregk961

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Cool the Jets yourself!

I'm not saying he'll be an All Star this year, but the summer league is always a good test of whether a guy can step up to the level after college and he's shown he can.

i was projecting into the future re. All Star selections. Let's face it, there's going to be some strange All Stars in the coming years if the East continues to lose players to the West like it has recently. You could conceivably see guys becoming all stars in the east in the coming years who're not even top 10 guys in their positions in the league such is the talent level out west,

You said ROY and "multiple all star", I understood you didnt mean all-star this year(Blake is the only rookie all star pick I can think of).

I dont mean to drag the arse out of this but the summer league dosnt indicate how a player will perform in the NBA. Like I said, Lillard is the only Summer League MVP anywhere near All-Star level

snotboogie

ButtersSuki wrote: »

The more I see of Fultz at the next level and the more I think about it the more I agree that Boston should have taken Fultz. Given Thomas' age and defensive liabilities, I feel rolling the dice on Fultz (esp. given what they'd be paying him) would have been a good call.

There really is no reason if you think about it that Boston (with all their assets) couldn't have worked the draft to have landed both Fultz AND Tatum (if they wanted him that badly).

I have a feeling already Fultz will be ROY and a multi-year All Star - esp in the East.

The issue is that Thomas needs to be paid next year and baring an injury or something else unexpected won't take less than a three year deal. So your options are going all in on Thomas for the next four to six years (and hope that its four) and swallow the luxury tax next year (which Boston will probably do) or trade Thomas now to get something back and hand the keys to Fultz straight out the gate or like you suggested have a year of Thomas with Fultz learning his trade then let Thomas walk for nothing and hand the entire offense over to a second year prospect. we'll see how it pans out over the next few years but I'm not against the Fultz for Tatum and the Lakers pick trade. 

I'd be more worried they they seem to have messed up the cap space and are shopping around Crowder (who is a great asset on a great contract) for presumably a knockdown price. Also they currently only have two big men in their entire roster and one of them looks out of his depth in the summer league.

Avery Bradley gone to the pistons for Marcus Morris had some health issues but serious player when he's healthy

rushfan

Calliope Proud Dustpan wrote:

Avery Bradley gone to the pistons for Marcus Morris had some health issues but serious player when he's healthy

A shame. One of my favourite Boston players, great servant to the team.

Eyes Down Field

ButtersSuki wrote:

There's going to be some strange All Stars in the coming years if the East continues to lose players to the West like it has recently. You could conceivably see guys becoming all stars in the east in the coming years who're not even top 10 guys in their positions in the league such is the talent level out west,

Who would be the east all-stars right now?

Probably

Irving
DeRozan
James
Antetokumpo
Porzingis

With Reserves

Wall
Thomas
Hayward
Love
Embid
Anthony
Lowry
Whiteside?

Pyjamarama

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Who would be the east all-stars right now?

Probably

Irving
DeRozan
James
Antetokumpo
Porzingis

With Reserves

Wall
Thomas
Hayward
Love
Embid
Anthony
Lowry
Whiteside?

I get the feeling if Embid plays enough to be a reserve he'll make the 1st team.

Eyes Down Field

Pyjamarama wrote:

I get the feeling if Embid plays enough to be a reserve he'll make the 1st team.

Yeah "If Embid plays" I believe he has the ability to be one of the top Centers in the NBA. The potential of that 76ers team is crazy. If Embid, Fultz and Simmons can ball, and they stay together, they could be something special. I think Porzingis can only go so far with NY, He probably should make a move. I really like Hassan Whiteside too. I think he could have a big season for Miami coming up

Eyes Down Field

Lonzo Ball was terrible last night in his summer league debut. He shot 2/15 from the field and missed 10/11 shots from 3.

irishman86

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Lonzo Ball was terrible last night in his summer league debut. He shot 2/15 from the field and missed 10/11 shots from 3.

Yet his father still cocky as hell in the stands

rushfan

irishman86 wrote:

Yet his father still cocky as hell in the stands

Watching the draft in NYC a few weeks ago, after seeing his old man being interviewed immediately after, I felt for Lonzo (well, just a little bit ) . His father's a jerk, an attention seeking git, who's doing his son no favours whatsoever.

Ya I don't get the praise people are giving lavar for being around and not leaving his family thats not praiseworthy it's what is supposed to happen. I couldn't imagine someone saying that somebody is a great husband for not beating his wife it's a joke the guys a dick just because he's not a complete dick does not clear him of that

snotboogie

rushfan wrote: »

Watching the draft in NYC a few weeks ago, after seeing his old man being interviewed immediately after, I felt for Lonzo (well, just a little bit ) . His father's a jerk, an attention seeking git, who's doing his son no favours whatsoever.

I do feel for him, if there is one thing NBA players hate it's a peer getting what they deem to be undeserved attention. He'll come into the league with a massive target on him