Confederations Cup 2017 - Starts Saturday 17th June

Arghus

The Talking Bread wrote: »

"revolutionary" ???

In the world of football, pretty much.

Hyzepher

The Talking Bread wrote: »

When did he raise it?? Are you talking about the initially allowed goal which was then ruled out? I don't think he raised it at all? Open to correction.

The second Chile goal - eventually allowed. Linesman overruled

For the disallowed goal he was offside.

Rekop dog

Bit disrespectful of the world champions to send a weakened squad to this imo. Also points at a lack of hunger that may hinder them in next world cup.

Can't imagine the likes of Ronaldo, Vidal or Sanchez would miss out on representing their country on the world stage even if they had a choice.

The Talking Bread

Arghus wrote: »

In the world of football, pretty much.

The technology is hardly revolutionary, the implementation of the changes in the game are. And it is the the latter which isn't working, ie, how they are implementing it. The technology should be decisive in a matter of moments and feedback as to why the decision to overturn has been made should be made clear to players/commentators/fans asap. A screen shot in the stadium is the best manner to do this.

What took them 25 minutes to give the evidence of something which could be screen shotted in a matter of seconds. Look at the fury of Vidal at half time.

The Talking Bread

Hyzepher wrote: »

The second Chile goal - eventually allowed. Linesman overruled

For the disallowed goal he was offside.

Oh, ok. I assumed you were talking about the goal before half time. That was the real talking point. I think the linesmen will panic a bit now when making their decisions straight away and there will be a lot of hesitation, knowing that they will have a "second chance" via the technology to clarify the legality of the goal.
Their power is diminished a lot,

DubDani

Rekop dog wrote: »

Bit disrespectful of the world champions to send a weakened squad to this imo. Also points at a lack of hunger that may hinder them in next world cup.

Can't imagine the likes of Ronaldo, Vidal or Sanchez would miss out on representing their country on the world stage even if they had a choice.

To be fair, they are not resting this many players, but have quite a few injured players as well as some playing the Under 21 European Championship.

Manuel Neuer, Mario Götze, Ilkay Gündogan, Julian Weigl, Leroy Sane, Marco Reus & Benedikt Höwedes are all injured or were very recently injured.

Kroos and Khedira are rested as they played the CL Final.

Jérôme Boateng, Mats Hummels, Thomas Müller & Mesut Özil are the only ones really rested, and to be fair most of them had an underwhelming season and probably needed the rest.

Add to that the players that went to the Under 21 European Championship instead of the Confed Cup, and you get the current squad. Even from that Squad 13 or 14 players were still eligible for the Under 21.

dfx-

Arghus wrote: »

Shock, as revolutionary technology fails to work perfectly right from the get-go.

from the getgo?

how long has there been trials of video technology? How long has there been claims that the technology is already there and should be used?

Arghus

dfx- wrote: »

from the getgo?

how long has there been trials of video technology? How long has there been claims that the technology is already there and should be used?

Trials and claims? I didn't realise they mattered as much as live games. Please direct me to the other major tournaments where it's been put to use.

Sure, this isn't the very first day out for VR, but there's no denying that it's very much early days for it. It is a relatively brand new addition to the world of football.

The Talking Bread

It is a redundant competition designed by FIFA for financial reasons, moreso than football reasons. Some of the games are enjoyable but noone remembers it a few weeks after it is over, if not shorter.

To say that it points at a lack of hunger that may hinder their world cup bid. If anything it is different. Playing 3 tournaments in a row every Summer as well as 50 to 60 club games in between each tournament as well as WC qualifiers takes extreme toll and that extra 4 weeks off in the Summer between tournaments can be vital for top players.

Germany have a huge pool of players so why not blood them in for the future and give them "tournament experience". Teams like Cameroon, Australia, NZ and even Portugal would not have such a large pool and the first 3 could be severely embarrased if taking a reserve squad

I don't think that their lack of the top squad players in such a glamour tournament will have any bearing on next year.

Arghus

The Talking Bread wrote: »

The technology is hardly revolutionary, the implementation of the changes in the game are. And it is the the latter which isn't working, ie, how they are implementing it. The technology should be decisive in a matter of moments and feedback as to why the decision to overturn has been made should be made clear to players/commentators/fans asap. A screen shot in the stadium is the best manner to do this.

I'm fully aware that the technology used, in and of itself, isn't revolutionary, per se, but, as you say, its implementation and its potential to fundamentally alter the inherant dynamics of the game, now and for the future, is about as revolutionary as it gets. So I'm pretty happy to use the adjective revolutionary to describe it; implying in that description that I refer partly to the nuts and bolts of the tech, but also to its implementation and implications - the all encompassing whole shebang. We can agree to disagree on semantics.

The Talking Bread

Arghus wrote: »

I'm fully aware that the technology used, in and of itself, isn't revolutionary, per se, but, as you say, its implementation and its potential to fundamentally alter the inherant dynamics of the game, now and for the future, is about as revolutionary as it gets. So I'm pretty happy to use the adjective revolutionary to describe it; implying in that description that I refer partly to the nuts and bolts of the tech, but also to its implementation and implications - the all encompassing whole shebang. We can agree to disagree on semantics.

What you are saying though that you have to allow certain factors to be ironed out.
The mess with regard the confusion of the goal before HT should have been foreseen and ironed out months and months ago if not a couple of years back when the idea was first mooted. It doesn't take a technical trial to anticipate such issues causing confusion, anger and protests. Especially for players who are used to the rules.
I mean, it was a bizzare situation, having players celebrating for 3 minutes with no indication there was anything wrong with the goal before the ref blowing the whistle and disallowing it. And giving no conclusive evidence why it was so.

Rekop dog

I'd say there'll be some silly transfer fees for this squad if they're successful in this tournament.

Arghus

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What you are saying though that you have to allow certain factors to be ironed out.
The mess with regard the confusion of the goal before HT should have been foreseen and ironed out months and months ago when the idea was first mooted. It doesn't take a technical trial to anticipate such issues causing confusion, anger and protests. Especially for players who are used to the rules.
I mean, it was a bizzare situation, having players celebrating for 3 minutes with no indication there was anything wrong with the goal before the ref blowing the whistle and disallowing it. And giving no conclusive evidence why it was so.

I don't disagree with you there at all. I'm just not totally surprised it didn't work like a clockwork charm yesterday. It's been trialled, assessed and implemented in a handful of games up until this point, but it is - in my view - something that could take a while to iron out the deficiencies in. I do think they can be ironed out, but at least at this moment, we have to have a little bit of patience perhaps. Even a teeny-weeny bit?

Arghus

Incidentally, nice goal from Germany.

DubDani

Interesting how Russian TV concentrates the picture very much on the main Area of play with no/very few Aerial views. Probably due to the fact that it would show a very empty stadium, especially on the upper Tiers.

Pro. F

dfx- wrote: »

It would've been checked anyway had he not put up his flag leading to confusion anyway.

Still not convinced Sanchez was onside. The lines on the pitch are not enough. The 'wall' in the image posted by The Talking Bread is much more clear and should be around for the second goal too..

It's actually not clear. This is really important - those screen graphics prove nothing. If the camera is not in line with the offside line then putting a pretend 3D line on an image does not tell you anything. If you are not properly accounting for parallex error you cannot use screen graphics to make the decisions clear.

It is farcical that they've tried to implement VAR on offsides without a proper camera set-up.

The Talking Bread

"The socceroos "

Please stop, Jim

dfx-

Arghus wrote: »

Trials and claims? I didn't realise they mattered as much as live games. Please direct me to the other major tournaments where it's been put to use.

Sure, this isn't the very first day out for VR, but there's no denying that it's very much early days for it. It is a relatively brand new addition to the world of football.

This isn't the line before it was trialled that we'd have to work it out. It was all there already and that it was a brainless decision to go with it. Other sports already have it and it would be a breeze.

What we're finding is the absolutely to-be-expected problems and that implementation in football is unsurprisingly not the same implementation in other sports. Phases of play, needless delays, 55 seconds of standing around to make decisions, only decisions not given are looked at, issues with offside, issues with communications to players fans and broadcasters..what bit of this was unforeseen teething problems?

Before you get near whether the decision is actually right or wrong.

Arghus

dfx- wrote: »

This isn't the line before it was trialled that we'd have to work it out. It was all there already and that it was a brainless decision to go with it. Other sports already have it and it would be a breeze.

What we're finding is the absolutely to-be-expected problems and that implementation in football is unsurprisingly not the same implementation in other sports. Phases of play, needless delays, 55 seconds of standing around to make decisions, only decisions not given are looked at, issues with offside, issues with communications to players fans and broadcasters..what bit of this was unforeseen teething problems?

Before you get near whether the decision is actually right or wrong.

Yes. I don't disagree with any of this. Seems to me that you're agreeing with my original point?

Harry Palmr

Back to the football, Germany were a bit rubbish I thought, the right flank in particular. Oh and Leno

Mr.Nice Guy

Team news for Russia vs Portugal:

Russia XI: Akinfeev, Vasin, Shishkin, Dzhikya, Kombarov, Glushakov, Smolov, Kudriashov, Golovin, Zhirkov, Samedov

Portugal XI: Patricio; Guerreiro, Pepe, Bruno Alves, Cedric; Adrien Silva, Carvalho, Gomes; Bernardo Silva, Andre Silva, Ronaldo

Some super attacking talent in that Portugal line-up.

Benimar

1-0 Portugal. Don't need to say who scored, but the Russian defender was awful. Like a lot of his team mates so far tbh.

Burial.

The floor is paying taxes.

irishguitarlad

Pepe is a disgrace.

Headshot

Mexican manager "you mother ****er" lol

Jim Bob Scratcher

The sleeping Mexicans need to wake up

Tom Mann Centuria

Chris Wood isn't very good.

Tom Mann Centuria

Good goal

Harry Palmr

Mexico equalise, New Zealand should have been out of sight.

Tom Mann Centuria

I'm sure he'll probably make a shocking decision after I post this, but I think the ref has had a good game.

Harry Palmr

Mexico lead but then should have conceded. A lot of late goals.

jacool

Headshot wrote: »

Mexican manager "you mother ****er" lol

Should be punished for that, and for trying to claim that his defender had been elbowed. He'll be all buddy buddy after the match, no doubt.

Charlie19

How did Marquez not get a yellow there for blatantly pulling the guy back.

The Talking Bread

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Mexico equalise, New Zealand should have been out of sight.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Mexico lead but then should have conceded. A lot of late goals.

Keep us updated! My tv isn't working

The Talking Bread

Ooooooooh!

Headshot

see that should be a red card for pulling the shirt like that

Making no effort to get the ball.

I hate **** like that

dmc17

Send everyone off

The Talking Bread

not even a yellow!!

The Talking Bread

Put the kettle on!

Charlie19

Couple of red card for sure.

The Talking Bread

Sham

Headshot

awful referring

Tom Mann Centuria

Headshot wrote: »

awful referring

As I predicted, initial initially thought he'd been ok. Alas, no.

DDC1990

How did none of the referees spot Herrara throwing the arm back and then firing in a headbutt!

Harry Palmr

The weakness of real time action using video replay review shown up dramatically

Hard to police a fracas, hard to review one quickly

pjohnson

Thought he got it right booking Boxhall (?) Thomas and Reyes.


Dunno what the video lads took so long to relay the information.

Charlie19

The way things stand, this video ref thing should be done awawy with.

Let them get the hang of it at youth tournaments before practicing the exercise at senior level.

A lot of work to be done.

Vincent Vega

DDC1990 wrote: »

How did none of the referees spot Herrara throwing the arm back and then firing in a headbutt!

The challenge on Herrera from the guy being pulled back also looked like it could have been red worthy.

Could have been 3-4 reds in total in everything that followed.

pjohnson

DDC1990 wrote: »

How did none of the referees spot Herrara throwing the arm back and then firing in a headbutt!

Smith, Wood, Aquino could have gone for the same reasons.

ziggyman17

Duff talking bollox, a clever yellow for the pull on the jersey, that should be a straight red, by pulling the jersey it sets off a chain of events that could have got a lot nastier........ Duff is a rubbish pundit, never agree with anything he has to say........