Confederations Cup 2017 - Starts Saturday 17th June

DJIMI TRARORE

Best team won,Portugal are not a very good TEAM

Charlie19

Fair play Bravo. Makes the taker work for it, I'd always call the takers bluff and stay on the line till they kick the ball.

caviardreams

Congrats to Chile - deserved it

GavRedKing

Better team won TBH.

3 poor penos, all good heights for Bravo.

The Talking Bread

Your best penalty kicker should ALWAYS take the first penalty. This bullsh*ttery by Ronaldo has cost his team a few teams now, particularly in Euro 2012.
I love his talent but put the glory stuff behind you and lead your team. It is pivotal you don't miss the first kick. It puts you on a complete backfoot, under pressure and the other team can be more relaxed in their kicks

Richard Hillman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Your best penalty kicker should ALWAYS take the first penalty. This bullsh*ttery by Ronaldo has cost his team a few teams now.
I love his talent but put the glory stuff behind you and lead your team. It is pivotal you don't miss the first kick. It puts you on a complete backfoot, under pressure and the other team can be more relaxed in their kicks

OH MY GOD....here we go again.


In 2012 the manager TOLD HIM THAT HE WAS NUMBER 5.


HOW MANY TIMES?????

Skylinehead

Richard Hillman wrote: »

OH MY GOD....here we go again.


In 2012 the manager TOLD HIM THAT HE WAS NUMBER 5.


HOW MANY TIMES?????

It's 2017 now.

The_Kew_Tour

Lol

Vincent Vega

Gotta love Bravo gesturing to Nani to say he was gonna dive to the right again

The Talking Bread

Richard Hillman wrote: »

OH MY GOD....here we go again.


In 2012 the manager TOLD HIM THAT HE WAS NUMBER 5.


HOW MANY TIMES?????

Yeah, sure Ted. If you believe that. Ronaldo would have had FULL choice which kick to take. The guy can tell his coach if he wants to be substituted for god's sake.


And I have never discussed this on boards before or seen it discussed so I have full right to bring it up.

Richard Hillman

I cannot get over how dumb footballers are. They practice this stupid method waiting until the keeper moves and then pick a direction. I have seen so many players get burned with this. It's ok when you're in training or 3-0 up but in a shootout you've just gotten yourself into a test of nerves in a highly pressurised situation.

If your gonna practice penalties, practice hitting good penalties and working on your body position, not tricking the effing goalkeeper. Idiots.

GavRedKing

Id hope our best penalty taker went first too. It sets the tone if they score too.

It doesnt really matter, its a glorified pre-WC cup so I dont think Ronnie will mind. He'll still claim another Balon D'or.

Rekop dog

Meh, if you took that enormous ego from him he wouldn't be half the player. But the positives vastly outweighs the negatives when it comes to his game.

The Talking Bread

Direct quote from Nani in 2012:

Nani, who took and scored Portugal's third penalty, revealed: “Cristiano Ronaldo demanded the last penalty. I said to the coach I would accept any order."

The Talking Bread

Rekop dog wrote: »

Meh, if you took that enormous ego from him he wouldn't be half the player. But the positives vastly outweighs the negatives when it comes to his game.

I don't disagree with this at all. But there has to be some sort of rational thought in this situation.

Richard Hillman

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Direct quote from Nani in 2012:

Nani, who took and scored Portugal's third penalty, revealed: “Cristiano Ronaldo demanded the last penalty. I said to the coach I would accept any order."

Direct quote from Ronaldo

http://metro.co.uk/2012/06/28/cristiano-ronaldo-i-didnt-demand-glory-penalty-in-euro-2012-shoot-out-483375/

Manager asked, he said yes.

Rekop dog

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I don't disagree with this at all. But there has to be some sort of rational thought in this situation.

He's ****ing abysmal at free kicks but still takes them. No rationale there. When you're a bazillion miles better than everyone else and produce the goods for club and country as consistently as he's does, I doubt anyone dares to upset him on these things.

The_Kew_Tour

GavRedKing wrote: »

Id hope our best penalty taker went first too. It sets the tone if they score too.

It doesnt really matter, its a glorified pre-WC cup so I dont think Ronnie will mind. He'll still claim ianother Balon D'or.

Yer best peno takers in Cl final in 2012 went 3rd and 5th. Did not work out too bad.

The Talking Bread

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Direct quote from Ronaldo

http://metro.co.uk/2012/06/28/cristiano-ronaldo-i-didnt-demand-glory-penalty-in-euro-2012-shoot-out-483375/

Manager asked, he said yes.

Who do you think had more power in this situation???

Ronaldo or Bento?!

Come on! Ronaldo decided, Bento was never going to dissuade or reject his request

Ronaldo: "I was sad not to take a penalty, but I wanted to leave mine for the fifth,“I admit it was a risk but I was prepared for it to decide the semi-final"

GavRedKing

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Yer best peno takers in Cl final in 2012 went 3rd and 5th. Did not work out too bad.

That was very strange, Mata had missed his last 2 or 3 before that in a row too in the cups.

I dont think anybody was taking number 5 off Drogba given the circumstances. Torres wanted to take one and was relegated to 6th penalty.

The Talking Bread

Here is one for you!

Niall Quinn played some gaelic for Eadstown in Kildare after retiring and won and scored 3 penalties during a match against Sallins.

At the end of the game he approached the keeper who I know and gave him a pat on the back and joked "hard luck, I know you would have loved to save one of those"

Neil turned around, looked at him and said "go f*ck yourself, you wouldn't take one against Spain in 2002, would you"

Van.Bosch

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Here is one for you!

Niall Quinn played some gaelic for Eadstown in Kildare after retiring and won and scored 3 penalties during a match against Sallins.

At the end of the game he approached the keeper who I know and gave him a pat on the back and joked "hard luck, I know you would have loved to save one of those"

Neil turned around, looked at him and said "go f*ck yourself, you wouldn't take one against Spain in 2002, would you"

He told that story on the radio a few weeks back

The Talking Bread

Van.Bosch wrote: »

He told that story on the radio a few weeks back

I know. But I honestly knew it before. I am from Sallins

irishman86

Burial. wrote: »

About time Ronaldo gets punished for his nonsense of trying to claim the spotlight getting the last penalty. Simply have to have your best spotters first.

Uh didnt he take the first one in a recent shoot out he was in :rolleyes:
Why does everyone under estimate the pressure that comes with the last kick. Miss the first kick there still is another four.
Just going by percentage the first is the least important

Van.Bosch

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I know. But I honestly knew it before. I am from Sallins

Didn't mean it like that, more backing you up. What does your mate think now? Does he regret it?

GavRedKing

Ronaldo is going home to be with his two new sons, that he had via a surrogate.

I'm assuming had Portugal got to the final and instead, not have to play a 3rd palce playoff, he wouldnt have left. :pac:

irishman86

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ronaldo is going home to be with his two new sons, that he had via a surrogate.

I'm assuming had Portugal got to the final and instead, not have to play a 3rd palce playoff, he wouldnt have left. :pac:

Did he not have a girl??

GavRedKing

irishman86 wrote: »

Did he not have a girl??

I seen on Daily Mail (it could be wrong) that it was two sons from the quote.

Unless he was quote wrong, he said he "wanted to be with his 2 sons" but that could have meant, CR Junior & his new son and the press picked it up wrong.

The Talking Bread

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I know. But I honestly knew it before. I am from Sallins

Didn't mean it like that, more backing you up. What does your mate think now? Does he regret it?

Not at all! Why would he! It was a brilliant reply! He was genuinely p*ssed off about the game, didn't need Mr. Nice Guy patronising him!

The Talking Bread

irishman86 wrote: »

Burial. wrote: »

About time Ronaldo gets punished for his nonsense of trying to claim the spotlight getting the last penalty. Simply have to have your best spotters first.

Uh didnt he take the first one in a recent shoot out he was in :rolleyes:
Why does everyone under estimate the pressure that comes with the last kick. Miss the first kick there still is another four.
Just going by percentage the first is the least important

Nonsense. First kick, by percentages is far more important given the fact that if it is missed the opportunity to even reach the 5th kick drops.

Miss the first kick and you are in danger of chasing. That creates big pressure. The other team also has the added element of security of affording to miss another penalty which alleviates pressure.

There was an article on this done in 2012 after Spain beat Portugal. I will try and dig it up and It focused on the probability of winning a shootout if you miss your first penalty (well something like that ) Obviously like most of these football studies it ain't an exact science but it focused on a certain amount (a large sample) of shootouts and naturally concluded that if you miss the first kick, your chances of losing increase massively

greendom

not necessarily with the first kick but if often happens that the team who misses first ends up winning the shoot out,

jacool

irishman86 wrote: »

Miss the first kick there still is another four.
Just going by percentage the first is the least important

There were only 3 last night!

The Talking Bread

greendom wrote: »

not necessarily with the first kick but if often happens that the team who misses first ends up winning the shoot out,

of course there is circumstances where you still can win when you miss.
Noone said otherwise, but your chances of winning a shootout, using common sense, reduce when you miss your first kick.

I am not sure why this can be disputed!!

Anyway, the fact is Ronaldo, in the past has taken the first kick (against Poland) and more or less took management during the shootout as he told the likes of Moutinho to take one so it is strange why he doesn't see the logic of taking the first kick. Other than being the hero. Which we all know is part and parcel of Ronaldo and such confidence and egotism is a factor what helps make him the great player he is.
He tried to cover himself by contradicting his manager and Nani by saying Bento told him to take the 5th which was a bit petty also.

Look at Vidal last night. That penalty was a real rally call for his teammates. It helps build a momentum and takes the pressure off the next kicker.


Anyway, I acknowledge this is an annoying topic for a few here so I'll bow out!

irelandrover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

of course there is circumstances where you still can win when you miss.
Noone said otherwise, but your chances of winning a shootout, using common sense, reduce when you miss your first kick.

I am not sure why this can be disputed!!

Anyway, the fact is Ronaldo, in the past has taken the first kick (against Poland) and more or less took management during the shootout as he told the likes of Moutinho to take one so it is strange why he doesn't see the logic of taking the first kick. Other than being the hero. Which we all know is part and parcel of Ronaldo and such confidence and egotism is a factor what helps make him the great player he is.
He tried to cover himself by contradicting his manager and Nani by saying Bento told him to take the 5th which was a bit petty also.

Look at Vidal last night. That penalty was a real rally call for his teammates. It helps build a momentum and takes the pressure off the next kicker.


Anyway, I acknowledge this is an annoying topic for a few here so I'll bow out!

There is a lot more pressure on the last kick than the first kick. If you asked me what penalty I'd rather take it would be the first. Because if I miss the team can recover. Miss the last and its more than likely game over.

The Talking Bread

irelandrover wrote: »

There is a lot more pressure on the last kick than the first kick. If you asked me what penalty I'd rather take it would be the first. Because if I miss the team can recover. Miss the last and its more than likely game over.

Yes, but the chances of reaching the last kick, as we seen both last night and against Spain are reduced strongly if you miss the first kick. This is the point.

allybhoy

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Here is one for you!

Niall Quinn played some gaelic for Eadstown in Kildare after retiring and won and scored 3 penalties during a match against Sallins.

At the end of the game he approached the keeper who I know and gave him a pat on the back and joked "hard luck, I know you would have loved to save one of those"

Neil turned around, looked at him and said "go f*ck yourself, you wouldn't take one against Spain in 2002, would you"

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I know. But I honestly knew it before. I am from Sallins

The Talking Bread

allybhoy wrote: »

sorry. Let us try and move on from such a monumental spelling error. It will be tough but I think we can

irelandrover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Yes, but the chances of reaching the last kick, as we seen both last night and against Spain are reduced strongly if you miss the first kick. This is the point.

Portugal missed three kicks last night. It made no difference where Ronaldo was in the order.

The Talking Bread

irelandrover wrote: »

Portugal missed three kicks last night. It made no difference where Ronaldo was in the order.

I think you are completely missing the whole central point of this conversation! Rather than me waffling on again, read the posts from where they started!

irelandrover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I think you are completely missing the whole central point of this conversation! Rather than me waffling on again, read the posts from where they started!

I read them, im still waiting on you digging up that article from 2012 you referenced.

irishman86

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Nonsense. First kick, by percentages is far more important given the fact that if it is missed the opportunity to even reach the 5th kick drops.

Miss the first kick and you are in danger of chasing. That creates big pressure. The other team also has the added element of security of affording to miss another penalty which alleviates pressure.

There was an article on this done in 2012 after Spain beat Portugal. I will try and dig it up and It focused on the probability of winning a shootout if you miss your first penalty (well something like that ) Obviously like most of these football studies it ain't an exact science but it focused on a certain amount (a large sample) of shootouts and naturally concluded that if you miss the first kick, your chances of losing increase massively

Miss the last kick and you have 0% chance of winning not the case if you miss the first.
As you said yourself it isnt a science.
I personally always think to myself the 3rd kick is the most important as its the first place you can lose the shoot out
So ya how many teams have won after missing the first kick to how many win missing the last kick, I dont know about the % for first kick miss but you miss the last kick off the ten you lose buddy

irishman86

jacool wrote: »

There were only 3 last night!

So its his fault that the other guys missed there kicks, that could just as easily happen had he scored the first then the others missed theres. Its hardly his fault that others couldnt convert

The Talking Bread

irelandrover wrote: »

I read them, im still waiting on you digging up that article from 2012 you referenced.

I'll allow you to wait then. I didn't save it in my archives sadly for such an occasion. Memory merely serves me as it was a big discussion at the time and there was heavy criticism on Ronaldo as he is a headline grabber. Some very unfair. Portugal should have won that game in normal/extra time anyway.

Perhaps google "penalty shootout science or probability first kick last kick" or something of the sort and I am sure you will find some sort of study/article on the topic. Google is a minefield for articles on any discussion you want to have.

As I said, it is pretty clear my points and I am not going to spoon feed you what I am saying anymore! I am clogging up the thread and I apologise!

FIN.

pjohnson

I thought VAR was gunna be the controversial thing from lastnight. I was mistaken.

Lucas Hood

2 nil Germany.
8 mins gone .

Some pool of players they have.

The Talking Bread

Rekop dog wrote: »

Bit disrespectful of the world champions to send a weakened squad to this imo.

.

CalamariFritti

2 good goals too.

CalamariFritti

Good pressure from Mexico now. Not a bad game.

irelandrover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I'll allow you to wait then. I didn't save it in my archives sadly for such an occasion. Memory merely serves me as it was a big discussion at the time and there was heavy criticism on Ronaldo as he is a headline grabber. Some very unfair. Portugal should have won that game in normal/extra time anyway.

Perhaps google "penalty shootout science or probability first kick last kick" or something of the sort and I am sure you will find some sort of study/article on the topic. Google is a minefield for articles on any discussion you want to have.

As I said, it is pretty clear my points and I am not going to spoon feed you what I am saying anymore! I am clogging up the thread and I apologise!

FIN.

OK, so this will be my last post on this topic as well. You said you had a report that backed up your point. I really dont think its spoon feeding when you are asked to produce that report.

So i googled it.
http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020520/full/news020520-10.html

One of the paragraphs.
"Williams isn't the only scientist with advice to coaches seeking shoot-out glory. Englishman Tim McGarry of the University of New Brunswick, Canada, did a mathematical analysis of the order in which players should take the five kicks. His conclusion is to save the best for last so that, as each kick becomes more important, the most accomplished players step up to the spot2."

pjohnson

Rüdiger the absolute ponce. Hernandez touching his chest was enough to down him like he was shot.