Confederations Cup 2017 - Starts Saturday 17th June

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Rüdiger the absolute nonce. Hernandez touching his chest was enough to down him like he was shot.

Agent Coulson

pjohnson wrote: »

Rüdiger the absolute nonce. Hernandez touching his chest was enough to down him like he was shot.

Calling a footballer for a bit of play acting a child abuser cop on!

Dirty Dingus McGee

irelandrover wrote: »

OK, so this will be my last post on this topic as well. You said you had a report that backed up your point. I really dont think its spoon feeding when you are asked to produce that report.

So i googled it.
http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020520/full/news020520-10.html

One of the paragraphs.
"Williams isn't the only scientist with advice to coaches seeking shoot-out glory. Englishman Tim McGarry of the University of New Brunswick, Canada, did a mathematical analysis of the order in which players should take the five kicks. His conclusion is to save the best for last so that, as each kick becomes more important, the most accomplished players step up to the spot2."

But if you have your weaker takers taking the early ones you might not get to the later penalties and still be in the shoot out.

This is the second time this happened with Ronaldo once was bad enough.All the analysis in the world that the better takers should take the later ones because there is more pressure involved doesn't change the fact that if you don't score the early penalties the late ones are irrelevant.

There is no way ion hell the coach should have allowed Ronaldo to take one of the later penalties he should be taking the first or second penalty every single time.

irishman86

Boom

Harry Palmr

Can is not a sub player. Takes far too long to get up to the pace of a game.

4-1

irishman86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But if you have your weaker takers taking the early ones you might not get to the later penalties and still be in the shoot out.

This is the second time this happened with Ronaldo once was bad enough.All the analysis in the world that the better takers should take the later ones because there is more pressure involved doesn't change the fact that if you don't score the early penalties the late ones are irrelevant.

There is no way ion hell the coach should have allowed Ronaldo to take one of the later penalties he should be taking the first or second penalty every single time.

Why, because you said it with no logical back up to your argument.

pjohnson

Oh FFS are we still on about the f*ckin shootout

Toobz

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can is not a sub player. Takes far too long to get up to the pace of a game.

4-1

If that's the case he shouldn't start for a team whos 2-0 up in 7 minutes either!

This team is incredible though.

klose

Good game, Mexico a bit unlucky not to have atleast another goal. Crazy how Germany can send a B squad essentially and get to the final they have frightening depth, looking forward to the final Sunday now.

Dirty Dingus McGee

irishman86 wrote: »

Why, because you said it with no logical back up to your argument.

I did provide a logical backup to my argument.

If you don't score the early penalties the later ones may be irrelevant, which has happened twice with Ronaldo .You can't find a more logical reason than that for the best takers taking the early penalties.

irishman86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I did provide a logical backup to my argument.

If you don't score the early penalties the later ones may be irrelevant, which has happened twice with Ronaldo .You can't find a more logical reason than that for the best takers taking the early penalties.

How many penalty shoot outs have been lost by the last one missing, id say most. How many have been lost after the first missing Id say a whole lot less.
Messi took a penalty against Chile and missed, hes the best player in the world yet they lost. Your point is incorrect

Van.Bosch

irishman86 wrote: »

How many penalty shoot outs have been lost by the last one missing, id say most. How many have been lost after the first missing Id say a whole lot less.
Messi took a penalty against Chile and missed, hes the best player in the world yet they lost. Your point is incorrect

That's not his point. If Ronaldo is your best taker and he is no. 1. Then there is a 100% chance of your best player taking a peno. Having him at 5 is a lower chance as it may not get there.

HalloweenJack

Just look at what Mexico had to do to get the ball in the net, ter Steegen had a great game and has had a great tournament.

Fair play to Mexico, they kept plugging away even though Germany practically started the game 2-0 up.

The game was similar to the one against Cameroon, I thought. Germany soaked up a lot of pressure and created enough and took their chances when they came. They are a very clinical side.

Dirty Dingus McGee

irishman86 wrote: »

How many penalty shoot outs have been lost by the last one missing, id say most. How many have been lost after the first missing Id say a whole lot less.
Messi took a penalty against Chile and missed, hes the best player in the world yet they lost. Your point is incorrect

And how many penalty shootouts have been won by a team who missed the first 3 penalties?

If you don't score the early ones you may not get a chance to take the later ones.Score the first one it gives the rest of the takers a bit more confidence.Miss the first one and your in trouble straight away.

Why is Ronaldo basicaly the only great player in the world who wants to do this and why after already losing out because of this policy did they decide to do the same thing again.

In the penalty shoot out they had in 2016 Ronaldo took the first penalty scored it and Portugal won the shootout.Looks like Ronaldo taking an early penalty might actually be beneficial.

Omackeral

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Why is Ronaldo basicaly the only great player in the world who wants to do this

Neymar did it last year in the Olympic Final in Rio. Can't help but think he too might have liked the glory that came with scoring the winning kick in his home nation.

irishman86

Van.Bosch wrote: »

That's not his point. If Ronaldo is your best taker and he is no. 1. Then there is a 100% chance of your best player taking a peno. Having him at 5 is a lower chance as it may not get there.

But that point is ignoring how much more important the fifth is. Like I said surely the 3rd is the most important as its the first place you can go out.
You arent going to lose a shoot out after one penalty, you will if you miss the fifth and 99% of the times most important

irishman86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

And how many penalty shootouts have been won by a team who missed the first 3 penalties?

If you don't score the early ones you may not get a chance to take the later ones.Score the first one it gives the rest of the takers a bit more confidence.Miss the first one and your in trouble straight away.

Why is Ronaldo basicaly the only great player in the world who wants to do this and why after already losing out because of this policy did they decide to do the same thing again.

In the penalty shoot out they had in 2016 Ronaldo took the first penalty scored it and Portugal won the shootout.Looks like Ronaldo taking an early penalty might actually be beneficial.

Should Ronaldo have taken the first three penalties then :rolleyes:
Miss the last one and you are definitely in trouble
Ronaldo clearly takes the penalty based on where he is asked to take it, as you said he took the first one in Portugal.
Like I said its always Ronaldos/Messis fault even when nothing they did affected the situation

irishman86

Omackeral wrote: »

Neymar did it last year in the Olympic Final in Rio. Can't help but think he too might have liked the glory that came with scoring the winning kick in his home nation.

Or maybe the coach decided thats where he wanted his number one taker in the highest pressure situation. When in the end it will still come down to the other takers scoring theres

The Talking Bread

irishman86 wrote: »

Should Ronaldo have taken the first three penalties then :rolleyes:
Miss the last one and you are definitely in trouble
Ronaldo clearly takes the penalty based on where he is asked to take it, as you said he took the first one in Portugal.
Like I said its always Ronaldos/Messis fault even when nothing they did affected the situation

This is where you are wrong.
Ronaldo decided HIMSELF, or even as Nani said post match "demanded" to do so against Spain. Bento also said this before Ronaldo contradicted the both of them by laying part responsibility on the decision on Bento.
Bento was on the sidelines in fact when they were putting the list together amongst them..
Ronaldo in fact chose penalty kickers against Poland as Moutinho said after the Poland game.

I am pretty sure the same would have happened with a huge figure like Neymar at the Olympics.

Such players would sometimes decide themselves, whether for good or bad, which penalty order they would take so.

irishman86

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This is where you are wrong.
Ronaldo decided HIMSELF, or even as Nani said post match "demanded" to do so against Spain. Bento also said this before Ronaldo contradicted the both of them by laying part responsibility on the decision on Bento.
Bento was on the sidelines in fact when they were putting the list together amongst them..
Ronaldo in fact chose penalty kickers against Poland as Moutinho said after the Poland game.

I am pretty sure the same would have happened with a huge figure like Neymar at the Olympics.

Such players would sometimes decide themselves, whether for good or bad, which penalty order they would take so.

Ronaldo said the coach decided
But like you said youself, players do decide where they feel comfortable

Dirty Dingus McGee

irishman86 wrote: »

Should Ronaldo have taken the first three penalties then :rolleyes:
Miss the last one and you are definitely in trouble
Ronaldo clearly takes the penalty based on where he is asked to take it, as you said he took the first one in Portugal.
Like I said its always Ronaldos/Messis fault even when nothing they did affected the situation

He should have taken one of the first 3.There the penalties that are guaranteed to be taken, number 4 and 5 aren't.

If he is going to take one he might as well make sure that is 100% certain to be taking one.

Ronaldo and Messi get all the praise when things go right that's the way it is with great players there is more demanded of them than the average players on the team.

The Talking Bread

irishman86 wrote: »

Ronaldo said the coach decided
But like you said youself, players do decide where they feel comfortable

Here is what happened.

Bento said after the game he (Ronaldo) decided he wanted the 5th penalty. Nani said Ronaldo "demanded" the same penalty.
Ronaldo then, after the criticism said it was a joint decision.
Bento then backtracked on his earlier remark after Ronaldo's comments and also took joint responsibility .

All quotes. Read into it whatever you think. Maybe Nani and Bento were lying or confused with their comments, who knows. It sounds like Bento was protecting his player from the extreme criticism he was getting somewhat which is fair enough.

And a player like Ronaldo deserves support from his manager considering how important he is.

I don't believe for a minute Ronaldo wouldn't be allowed to take his penalty in his desired slot.

Just to clarify, I am not saying his decision to take the 5th penalty is born out of complete glory hunting,like many think, not at all, I am merely saying, and many agree, that is ill thought tactics considering the impact missing the first penalty can have.




Again I apologise for contributing to derailing the thread a bit! ! I am wrecking my own head, as well as others I imagine!

HalloweenJack

Let's jus thope the third place playoff doesn't go to penos or we'll be having this discussion all over again on Sunday evening.

pjohnson

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Let's jus thope the third place playoff doesn't go to penos or we'll be having this discussion all over again on Sunday evening.

We'll be having this discussion regardless of what happens Sunday I'd say.

irishman86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He should have taken one of the first 3.There the penalties that are guaranteed to be taken, number 4 and 5 aren't.

If he is going to take one he might as well make sure that is 100% certain to be taking one.

Ronaldo and Messi get all the praise when things go right that's the way it is with great players there is more demanded of them than the average players on the team.

Ive said already I personally think the third is the most important
Everyone has a argument for which they think it is. I think the first is the least important

irishman86

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Here is what happened.

Bento said after the game he (Ronaldo) decided he wanted the 5th penalty. Nani said Ronaldo "demanded" the same penalty.
Ronaldo then, after the criticism said it was a joint decision.
Bento then backtracked on his earlier remark after Ronaldo's comments and also took joint responsibility .

All quotes. Read into it whatever you think. Maybe Nani and Bento were lying or confused with their comments, who knows. It sounds like Bento was protecting his player from the extreme criticism he was getting somewhat which is fair enough.

And a player like Ronaldo deserves support from his manager considering how important he is.

I don't believe for a minute Ronaldo wouldn't be allowed to take his penalty in his desired slot.

Just to clarify, I am not saying his decision to take the 5th penalty is born out of complete glory hunting,like many think, not at all, I am merely saying, and many agree, that is ill thought tactics considering the impact missing the first penalty can have.




Again I apologise for contributing to derailing the thread a bit! ! I am wrecking my own head, as well as others I imagine!

Id say Bento and Nani spoke incorrectly which happens all the time

Frisian

klose wrote: »

Good game, Mexico a bit unlucky not to have atleast another goal. Crazy how Germany can send a B squad essentially and get to the final they have frightening depth, looking forward to the final Sunday now.

Mind you, of the 18 players that beat Ireland's U21 4:0 here in Sligo 2013
7 are now in Jogi's squad. Manager Horst Hrubesch did some fine job in helping those talents to develope.

12 Marc-André ter Stegen (GK)
2 Antonio Rüdiger
5 Shkodran Mustafi
8 Leon Goretzka
9 Kevin Volland (C)
10 Moritz Leitner
13 Erik Durm
15 Michael Vitzthum
18 Nico Schulz
19 Amin Younes
21 Jonas Hofmann
--
1 Bernd Leno (GK)
3 Marvin Plattenhardt
7 Leonardo Bittencourt
14 Danny da Costa
16 Robin Knoche
17 Philipp Hofmann
22 Özkan Yıldırım
---
U21 IRL-D 0:4

Harry Palmr

Chile starting brightly again, Medal is carrying a bit isn't he?

caviardreams

A Chile goal would set this up nicely imo

Harry Palmr

Germany can't deal with Chile's press

Harry Palmr

Oh dear!!!

Turtyturd

Chile can't deal with Germany's press. :pac:

caviardreams

Oh no, Germany gifted a goal there but Chile should have made their early pressure count

Harry Palmr

Turtyturd wrote: »

Chile can't deal with Germany's press. :pac:

They need wing mirrors

citytillidie

Only took ITV 46 mins to mention 1966 lol

Lackey

Scrappy second half Chile getting frustrated

Harry Palmr

Given the talent they have Chile sure make hard work of actually shooting on target.

Germany look likely to pick them off and win 2-0. Very efficient.

VAR hello?!

Lackey

Nice Elbow

callaway92

Easy decision with the video there.

Red card surely

EDIT: How can you not give a red ????

Harry Palmr

Dirty fecker. Quite why the ref feels the need to have a look when there are three fellas upstairs being paid to have a look is beyond me - he has to trust them

Yellow card! Nuts

Agent Coulson

Another total fcuk up with VAR.

irishman86

Video refs are rubbish in soccer so far, rugby you can at least hear them speaking. In soccer they stop the flow

citytillidie

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Another total fcuk up with VAR.

That is not a VAR mess that is a ref mess should be a red card

callaway92

VAR literally made it a simple decision for the ref and he completely bottled it.

Mars Bar

How in the name of jesus did they deem that just a yellow? Might as well do away with the VAR's coz they are hopeless.

Lackey

That wont help the fight for VAR anyway

ctrl-alt-delete

It looked like the ref might have had a decent view in real time,

Gets help from the video officials,

Goes and has a look himself,

and they still only decide on a yellow card for that?

Turtyturd

F*ck up on the refs end more so.

Could have had Vidal and Medel off a few minutes ago by the letter of the law.

citytillidie

irishman86 wrote: »

Video refs are rubbish in soccer so far, rugby you can at least hear them speaking. In soccer they stop the flow

Rugby is mostly played in English speaking countries, would you have understood the ref if they were talking in Slovak?

callaway92

Lackey wrote: »

That wont help the fight for VAR anyway

VAR was good there. It was the ref that was bad