General Premier League Thread - 2017/2018

niallo27

Arsenal

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He struggles to adapt tactically mid game. This has been the case most of his career.
Ultimately he didn't do anything when his team were getting hammered by Spurs in the second half.
The equaliser was always coming.

You are not giving Spurs any credit for playing really well in the 2nd half. Klopp made several changes and changed the shape of the team.

Trigger

Liverpool

emmetkenny wrote: »

When Ali initially plays the pass Kane is offside. The ref should blow up then shouldn't he?

Draw was a fair result overall. Liverpool better in the first and Spurs better in the second. Salah and Wanyama with two super goals.

I think the rule is not until you touch/make a play at the ball.. when the ball is misskicked backwards it starts a 2nd phase to the play and Kane is onside then as it’s an opposing player playing the ball

Basically if the defender got enough on the ball to clear it it wouldn’t be called offside.

niallo27

Everton

niallo27 wrote: »

You are not giving Spurs any credit for playing really well in the 2nd half. Klopp made several changes and changed the shape of the team.

No game management whatsoever

Making subs without making the correct adjustments tactically was the reason the game finished 2-2

I'd also blame Karius for the first goal. I agree with Sky

ShamoBuc

PhuckHugh wrote: »

As I said earlier, spurs player knew what he was doing and jumps into vvd.

.....so a free out?

Most entertaining game, full of drama, as always a rollercoaster for pool fans and others too.

Trigger

Liverpool

M!Ck^ wrote: »

No game management whatsoever

Making subs without making the correct adjustments tactically was the reason the game finished 2-2

I'd also blame Karius for the first goal. I agree with Sky

It was a poor punch but even then there was 4 pool players in the area it was punched to.. that goal is all on Can for not clearing it..

TitianGerm

Liverpool

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'd also blame Karius for the first goal. I agree with Sky

Nonsense. He got the ball well out of the box, Can should have put his foot on the ball and clear it past half way.

blueser

emmetkenny wrote: »

When Ali initially plays the pass Kane is offside. The ref should blow up then shouldn't he?

Draw was a fair result overall. Liverpool better in the first and Spurs better in the second. Salah and Wanyama with two super goals.

These days, linesmen tend not to flag until the player in an offside position makes a move towards the ball. By the time Kane got onto that ball, it had been touched by Lovren. It's as clear as mud!

ShamoBuc

Blaming the keeper for that goal is really just typical Sky hyperbole. He got the ball well out if his penalty area. Can in particular is at fault for not getting to the clearance.

Rayne Wooney

Klopp got the bus out but unfortunately the bus included Virgil van Dijk

7 goals conceded in his 4 games

Paully D

It was a good punch from Karius on the first goal, IMO.

I'd take my chances on leaving Wanyama with that shot because 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 that ball ends up hitting Goodison Park.

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

Very enjoyable final ten minutes. That was some thunderbastard from Wanyama. You know it's a good goal when it sends Gary Neville into an orgasm.

Fair play to Kane for taking the second peno. I reckoned it was a mistake him taking it but he proved me wrong.

theoneeyedman

tayto lover wrote: »

John Moss is by far the best referee in the Premier league. He lets the play flow as much as possible and it heightens the excitement. It also prevents players whinging and diving because he doesn't whistle and they have to get up and get on with it.

LOL

Agent Coulson

Liverpool

blueser wrote: »

These days, linesmen tend not to flag until the player in an offside position makes a move towards the ball. By the time Kane got onto that ball, it had been touched by Lovren. It's as clear as mud!

For those claiming Kane becomes onside after Lovren's touch, that's not the case. This (example 13) is from page 116 of FIFA's laws of the game. A sliced clearance by Lovren does not constitute a deliberate touch. Officials got it wrong. #LIVTOT

https://twitter.com/donaldsonespn/status/960224532899467264

TitianGerm

Liverpool

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/donaldsonespn/status/960224532899467264

That clears that up so.

blueser

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/donaldsonespn/status/960224532899467264

You'd better send that to Dermot Gallagher then!

ShamoBuc

Paully D wrote: »

It was a good punch from Karius on the first goal, IMO.

I'd take my chances on leaving Wanyama with that shot because 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 that ball ends up hitting Goodison Park.

Very true, although the ball would need directions or do a 180 to get to that place:pac:

Agent Coulson

Liverpool

blueser wrote: »

You'd better send that to Dermot Gallagher then!

Clear as mud you were wrong as well.

blueser

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Clear as mud you were wrong as well.

Yes, apparently I was.

Augme

Giggsy11 wrote: »

https://giant.gfycat.com/DimwittedImpressiveDunnart.webm

This isn't a dive. VVD clearly kicked Lamela.

I didn't see this angle originally. It does look like he caught him. My apologies Kiith.



*runs off in embarrassment*

dfx-

Everton

The only angle that matters is what the assistant saw. That's what made him see a penalty, so other angles don't shed any light whether he should've flagged or not. Mind you based on his decision for the first penalty/offside, I'd not be trusting his judgement.

emmetkenny wrote: »

That clears that up so.

It's extremely embarrassing for the assistant referee in particular not to know he was offside regardless of a touch.

You can argue Moss should know too, but he was the one giving the bad advice to Moss.

J. Marston

Belted him in the back of the leg...

https://twitter.com/AidanMUFC_/status/960236115256074240

tayto lover

Paully D wrote: »

It was a good punch from Karius on the first goal, IMO.

I'd take my chances on leaving Wanyama with that shot because 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 that ball ends up hitting Goodison Park.

No it wasn't a good punch.
Coaches will tell keepers never to punch the ball straight out the middle as it gives someone running on to it the whole goal to aim at. If they punch it towards the wings then they narrow the angle.
Defenders are told the same when heading clear. Never out the middle if you can help it.

Harry Palmr

Mic them up and then they'll have nowhere to hide.

Rekop dog

Spurs

J. Marston wrote: »

Belted him in the back of the leg...
]

It was clear as day in real time and every angle bar one. It's frightening how many people can choose to believe what they want to based on who they support.

blueser

niallo27 wrote: »

Well no he wasn't you obviously didn't see the line. It was marginal not a big deal

A freeze frame which tends to corroborate your offside shout for Spurs' second goal....


https://twitter.com/Fericel__/status/960239895955505152

monkey9

Overall, the only bone of contention i'd have is with the Kane offside. The officials have a discussion and the linesman is saying that he just doesn't know whether Lovren gets a touch. Now i could be wrong, but the ref doesn't seem to know either and so i'm not sure how he can still award the penalty from that point of view. I can only assume he does know that Lovern gets a touch, but he didn't look certain.

Also, as others have pointed out, Kane is in an offside position throughout and he's affecting what Lovern does. And Lovern doesn't intentionally play it back to Karius. If Kane isn't there and rolls the ball back to the keeper who then picks it up, there's no way it's going to given as a free for a backpass so i'm not sure how he can be deemed to have played Kane on. Is it just any touch that allows Kane become onside? Like, if i'm running in on goal and Kane is ahead of me but in an offside position, could i intentionally play the ball off Lovern instead to deflect to Kane and therefore have him onside again?

But once it's all deemed fine by the officials (and i again will assume they've interpreted the offside law correctly here) the incident itself is a penalty. Yeah, Kane take a dive and it's always going to happen so Karius needs to win the ball there and he doesn't. No blame attached to him, but it's a penalty.

The second penalty is correct. There's angles where it looks soft and other angles where it looks nailed on. It looks nailed on to the linesman clearly so i've no issue with him and the ref coming to the conclusion that they have. That's what they're there to do.

Some fans are complaining that the ref didn't allow the linesman overrule him in the first incident but did allow it in the second as if there's an unfair consistency. Well they're different incidents. The first is the linesman informing the ref than Kane is in an offside position but he doesn't know if Lovern gets a touch. The ref deems that Lovern did get a touch and that this overrules the offside.

With the second incident, the ref deems the assistant (who is adamant that there's been a foul) to be in a better position and goes with his advice, the same way he would for offsides.

Overall, it's good officiating teamwork, that's what they're there to do. I can guarantee you people giving out about the assistant's role in this game will have at one stage or more in the past have said "Why hasn't the lino flagged. He can clearly see what's happened. He's bottled it etc etc"

As i said, i'd have a quibble over the offside, but i've no issue with how they came to the conclusion to award the penalties though their communication.

I'd be more annoyed at how Liverpool couldn't see out the win after taking the lead two minutes into injury time (I thought the ref blew up a bit early actually right after Spurs scored)

It feels like a defeat, it'll feel like a win to Spurs but the draw is a fair result.

Trigger

Liverpool

blueser wrote: »

A freeze frame which tends to corroborate your offside shout for Spurs' second goal....


https://twitter.com/Fericel__/status/960239895955505152

I stand corrected, good call Niallo, possibly still hard for the Linesman to judge that one in fairness though as they are hugging each other

TitianGerm

Liverpool

astradave wrote: »

I stand corrected, good call Niallo, possibly still hard for the Linesman to judge that one in fairness though as they are hugging each other

You wouldn't expect someone to get that right it's to close to see in play. Only way that would be caught would be with VAR.

J. Marston

Everton

J. Marston wrote: »

Belted him in the back of the leg...

https://twitter.com/AidanMUFC_/status/960236115256074240

There is always an excuse

It defects from Klopp and his failure in the 2nd half to address the issues

Agent Coulson

Liverpool

The linesman has a touch of the Clattenburg’s about him.

Loving the attention.

dfx-

Everton

J. Marston wrote: »

Belted him in the back of the leg...

https://twitter.com/AidanMUFC_/status/960236115256074240

So you can see why he gave that one.

Next up and more difficult to figure out: how he thought Lovren touching the ball made a difference. He was so sure of it...

Chelsea rejects

Salah - 20 goals, 6 assists
Lukaku - 12 goals, 5 assists
De Bruyne - 7 goals, 11 assists

Paully D

tayto lover wrote: »

No it wasn't a good punch.
Coaches will tell keepers never to punch the ball straight out the middle as it gives someone running on to it the whole goal to aim at. If they punch it towards the wings then they narrow the angle.
Defenders are told the same when heading clear. Never out the middle if you can help it.

Well a former professional goalkeeper who now makes his living doing goalkeeping analysis and is widely respected for same disagrees:

https://twitter.com/davidpreece12/status/960221005372428289

Turtwig

Eriksen's cross was goal threatening Keeper had to get some form of contact on it to deflect it away from a certain goal. His punch in the circumstances was rather good. Just this was that 1% of the time where the resulting ball wasn't cleared by his defenders and wasn't shot into row z in the stands. It was an peach of a hit.

TitianGerm

Liverpool

Turtwig wrote: »

Eriksen's cross was goal threatening Keeper had to get some form of contact on it to deflect it away from a certain goal. His punch in the circumstances was rather good. Just this was that 1% of the time where the resulting ball wasn't cleared by his defenders and wasn't shot into row z in the stands. It was an peach of a hit.

His punch went right past Can. Can tried to flick it on instead of trapping the ball and hoofing it past the half way line or trying a pass.

Karius has had some terrible games for Liverpool but today wasn't one of them. He played well.

tayto lover

Paully D wrote: »

Well a former professional goalkeeper who now makes his living doing goalkeeping analysis and is widely respected for same disagrees:

https://twitter.com/davidpreece12/status/960221005372428289

I don't agree with that at all. Goes against coaching methods as well as reason.

ERG89

RoboKlopp wrote:

Salah - 20 goals, 6 assists

Think its 21. Nearly has as many goals as Morata & Lukaku combined. As a winger for half the price.
The better he does the more I think that Madrid will go for him in the summer.

davycc

Man City

Hugo lorris completed more passes today (44) than any Liverpool player

Trigger

Liverpool

davycc wrote: »

Hugo lorris completed more passes today (44) than any Liverpool player

Yet he couldn’t do his actual job of preventing goals. His willingness to dive at players feet instead of spreading himself is his downfall yet again.. he stays up for Salahs second and Salah has a much harder chance to take

PhuckHugh

Talk about angles all you want...Look at the Spurs player and you'll get your answer... He eyes VVD and then jumps backwards with both feet off the ground into him with no intention of playing the ball. As soon as he got the contact it was like he was shot... Yes vvd catches him, but he has eye's only for the ball and Lamela jumps into him from the blindside.

castletownman

Best defensive thing Liverpool have is their fans

Everton

https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/960258221645750272

niallo27

Arsenal

So he didn't know did lovern touch the ball but still gave the pen. Interesting I wonder did the 4th official tell him.

AidoEirE

Everton

The palace penalty was more of a farce than the pool/spurs game

Bridge93

Liverpool

my reading of it from match of the day

The first one by the definition of the law they read out should be a penalty but shouldn't have been given in the circumstances it was as there was no proof at the time to the ref.

The second one shouldn't have been given looking at those still images but given the evidence at the time had to be given

AidoEirE

Everton

It's simple enough, Kane played for the first peno by hanging his leg there. If it was any of our teams and the peno was given our way we'd be delighted.

Second is a penalty straight up. VVD kicked the back leg of Lamela, very easy to see.

2-2 was a fair result and if you asked any sensible supporter of either club they'd prpbably say it was a fair result

monkey9

AidoEirE wrote: »

It's simple enough, Kane played for the first peno by hanging his leg there. If it was any of our teams and the peno was given our way we'd be delighted.

Second is a penalty straight up. VVD kicked the back leg of Lamela, very easy to see.

2-2 was a fair result and if you asked any sensible supporter of either club they'd prpbably say it was a fair result

I'd agree with this. Kane has clearly taken a dive, but Karius knows Kane is going to do this so he really must win the ball. Kane, like any player in that position, is hitting the turf. Karius doesn't win the ball so no blame to the ref there at all. I've no complaints about it. We've won penalties like that as well.

Loafing Oaf

AidoEirE wrote: »

The palace penalty was more of a farce than the pool/spurs game

How so? Shirt pull is a clear foul "by the letter of the law"...

AidoEirE

Everton

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

How so? Shirt pull is a clear foul "by the letter of the law"...

Hardly a shirt pull, touched his jersey. Benteke hardly adjusted or looked fouled, i'd say he was just as suprised than anyone he won a penalty.

The defending side of the game has completely gone. Keepers cant be sneezed on, defenders don't know how far they can go with the art of defending because the refs are inconsistent or the rules just aren't clear enough.

Thought the linesman for the pool/spurs game played a blinder today btw. Called his calls correctly.

It was down to the ref to make the final decision

emmetkenny

Everton

emmetkenny wrote: »

Nonsense. He got the ball well out of the box, Can should have put his foot on the ball and clear it past half way.

I had another look at it this morning and tbf you have a point