General Premier League Thread - 2017/2018

SEPT 23 1989

Liverpool

He was grabbing the wrong leg

sligeach

Just as I write that, City score.

the whole year inn

Liverpool

sligeach wrote: »

Glad I'm watching Barca v Atletico instead of Man City v Chelsea. Heard it's pretty turgid stuff. Chelsea didn't have a single shot in that 1st half. First time that's happened for well over a decade.

Should nt you be in the la Liga thread.

klose

sligeach wrote: »

Glad I'm watching Barca v Atletico instead of Man City v Chelsea. Heard it's pretty turgid stuff. Chelsea didn't have a single shot in that 1st half. First time that's happened for well over a decade.

City are actually playing nice stuff, Chelsea are a joke they way they're set up a bank of 5 behind a bank of 4 with hazard roaming around like a headless chicken having balls pumped up to him. Second half of barca/atleti was entertaining.

blueser

Turtyturd wrote: »

Nobody falls down quite like Hazard.

He's terrible for it. I don't understand why he does it though; he's a fantastic player, and doesn't need to do it.

Bridge93

Liverpool

That's appalling from Moses

blueser

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

He was grabbing the wrong leg

Iused2likebusts

Liverpool

Cowardly stuff by Chelsea so far.

Turtwig

Walker is actually very sloppy at times. Twice today he made what could have been a really costly mistake. There were a few against Arsenal. Then there was his massive blunder against Wigan.

blueser

Even though I'm obviously happy to see it, Chelsea's approach today is baffling to me. Just about everybody knows that the games we've "struggled" in have been against teams that actually had a go against us. Wolves, Palace, Liverpool, Bristol City (1st leg) and early on in Naples. If you park the bus against us, we usually eventually wear you down. Defend at all costs for 90 minutes is a tiring tactic.

Turtyturd

blueser wrote: »

Even though I'm obviously happy to see it, Chelsea's approach today is baffling to me. Just about everybody knows that the games we've "struggled" in have been against teams that actually had a go against us. Wolves, Palace, Liverpool, Bristol City (1st leg) and early on in Naples. If you park the bus against us, we usually eventually wear you down. Defend at all costs for 90 minutes is a tiring tactic.

Strange alright, and even more so not to change it after going behind...all very Mourinho-esque.

j8wk2feszrnpao

City have had 500 more passes than Chelsea.
Ridiculously negative by Chelsea, not even closing down most of the time.

Everton

Have to respect Silva
Some player

Guy:Incognito

Rylan on to pull something out of the bag for Chelsea? Will he eben see the ball that far up the pitch?

Turtwig

Almost every attack for Chelsea has originated from Kyle Walker.

blueser

Still cant rest easy while we're only 1 up.

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

martyos121 wrote: »

Yeah, an excellent poster was championing that point based on the FA Cup successes and many others agreed. I personally find it a baffling opinion even though they made other points that were valid. Nothing personal against them if they’re reading this too, a top poster but I just couldn’t wrap my head around those views.

You yourself above are describing the FA Cup wins as successes so how can a manager who has brought success in 2017, 2015 and 2014 be said to be presiding over a mess? That is the circus show hyperbole so prevalent nowadays. It's a poor season by the supremely high standards Wenger has set at the club, no doubt about that, but lest we forget they were also in a final this season as well and lost to the best team in England by a considerable distance, with a spending power far beyond them.

In regards to what happened today...

https://twitter.com/PetrCech/status/970325250486493187

Of course Cech admirably taking responsibility for the result will cut little ice with the critics.

"Arsene probably begged him to write that, fam. He told him to say that, innit."

The narrative for Wenger's demise has already but written but look at its authors: a host of failed managers or chaps who never had the guts to manage themselves all lining up to trash a Hall of Fame manager: Jamie Redknapp, Paul Merson, Graeme Souness, Ian Wright, Alan Shearer, Danny Murphy, Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher etc. It's all part of the circus show. Sure Dunphy will be rolled out tomorrow on Newstalk or whatever for his performance. To paraphrase a famous line: those that can, manage; those that can't, do punditry.

Nice one City

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's a poor season by the supremely high standards Wenger has set at the club, no doubt about that, but lest we forget they were also in a final this season as well and lost to the best team in England by a considerable distance, with a spending power far beyond them.

It’s a second poor season.
And the trend is that they are falling further and further behind.
Spurs haven’t out spent Arsenal, but the gulf between them has totally flipped.
No one fears playing Arsenal.

SEPT 23 1989

Liverpool

4 wins away on the 5th of March

Corholio

Tyler and Neville are becoming increasingly painful to listen to together. Most of the matches have to be about how 1 team isn't playing a certain way and how it's 'unacceptable' etc etc until ad nauseum. Tyler licking Nevilles ass at every occasion as well. Neville trying to live up to his commentary 'persona' at every turn is highly grating to listen to these days.

cj maxx

Man City

Well , that was ****E

the whole year inn

Liverpool

Pep is a legend. His celebration at the end. It means so much to him.

Turtyturd

Fairly pathetic showing from Chelsea.

You’d almost think Conte had a wedge on himself being sacked before Wenger.

ERG89

Corholio wrote:

Tyler and Neville are becoming increasingly painful to listen to together. Most of the matches have to be about how 1 team isn't playing a certain way and how it's 'unacceptable' etc etc until ad nauseum. Tyler licking Nevilles ass at every occasion as well. Neville trying to live up to his commentary 'persona' at every turn is highly grating to listen to these days.

It's as if Neville has misses the first half of the season the way he talks about teams "going after" City at the Ethiad no less. If you do it you could easily but cut to ribbons very fast.

blueser

Job done. We weren't at our flowing best, but it's another 3 points bagged. Chelsea's dreadfully negative approach didn't make for an attractive game. Add to that the mental and physical fatigue of three big games in the last 8 days. A "win ugly" game, for sure. On to Stoke next monday now (ignoring the Basel formality in midweek). I give it a 6.5/10.

Inquitus

Man City

Good for my Spurs to see City win today, gives us a bit of daylight going into the home stretch!

pjohnson

Thats the CL places sorted now. At least the relegation battle looks lively yet!

martyos121

Liverpool

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You yourself above are describing the FA Cup wins as successes so how can a manager who has brought success in 2017, 2015 and 2014 be said to be presiding over a mess? That is the circus show hyperbole so prevalent nowadays. It's a poor season by the supremely high standards Wenger has set at the club, no doubt about that, but lest we forget they were also in a final this season as well and lost to the best team in England by a considerable distance, with a spending power far beyond them.

In regards to what happened today...

https://twitter.com/PetrCech/status/970325250486493187

Of course Cech admirably taking responsibility for the result will cut little ice with the critics.

"Arsene probably begged him to write that, fam. He told him to say that, innit."

The narrative for Wenger's demise has already but written but look at its authors: a host of failed managers or chaps who never had the guts to manage themselves all lining up to trash a Hall of Fame manager: Jamie Redknapp, Paul Merson, Graeme Souness, Ian Wright, Alan Shearer, Danny Murphy, Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher etc. It's all part of the circus show. Sure Dunphy will be rolled out tomorrow on Newstalk or whatever for his performance. To paraphrase a famous line: those that can, manage; those that can't, do punditry.

Look, you can use all the fancy language and clever idioms you want, but if I couldn’t make my own mind up on the situation Arsenal are in, then I’d just listen to what their fans have to say and the majority of them echo the points I made. If you’re literally counter-arguing what the actual fans of the club in question have been saying for a long time, then yes I do actually disagree with you and in a big way.

Your knowledge of football is as good as anyone who posts on this website but when a conversation revolves around one club in particular, I’ll usually take on board what the fans of said club have to say as the most reliable source and I happen to agree with much of what they have to say about the state their team is in. It’s easy for you to quote and imitate the Arsenal Fan TV lads, and they’re a caricature of actual Arsenal fans, but you seem to be oblivious to the fact that a huge amount of the knowledgable, respected Arsenal fans feel a similar way but aren’t so abrasive in how they convey their opinions.

It’s a very misguided point you make about pundits too. Yes their job is to be noticed first and foremost, but the narrative about Wenger has been written in real life for all to see without the need to even listen to them.

KingdomYid

What a cowardly display from the champions of England.

A Dub in Glasgo

Shocking that only the top 6 have a positive goal difference

blueser

KingdomYid wrote: »

What a cowardly display from the champions of England.

It baffled me. Those are bloody good players that Chelsea have. 9 of them have won PL titles. Have they become bad players in the space of a few months? Hardly. It must be down to Conte; he decides the tactics, surely? As I said earlier, everyone knows that the teams who have given us most problems have been the ones who actually had a go at us. Why didn't they have a go? Very odd.

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

martyos121 wrote: »

Look, you can use all the fancy language and clever idioms you want, but if I couldn’t make my own mind up on the situation Arsenal are in, then I’d just listen to what their fans have to say and the majority of them echo the points I made. If you’re literally counter-arguing what the actual fans of the club in question have been saying for a long time, then yes I do actually disagree with you and in a big way.

Your knowledge of football is as good as anyone who posts on this website but when a conversation revolves around one club in particular, I’ll usually take on board what the fans of said club have to say as the most reliable source and I happen to agree with much of what they have to say about the state their team is in. It’s easy for you to quote and imitate the Arsenal Fan TV lads, and they’re a caricature of actual Arsenal fans, but you seem to be oblivious to the fact that a huge amount of the knowledgable, respected Arsenal fans feel a similar way but aren’t so abrasive in how they convey their opinions.

It’s a very misguided point you make about pundits too. Yes their job is to be noticed first and foremost, but the narrative about Wenger has been written in real life for all to see without the need to even listen to them.

Not sure what fancy language and clever idioms I used tbh! Fan opinion isn't always a great measure of deciding the best course of action. There was a time United fans wanted Ferguson gone. I can remember the Liverpool fan arguments on here from pro-Rafa and anti-Rafa sides when his team started suffering poor results and it wasn't like things improved after he left.

I have no issue with Arsenal fans wanting a change. As I've said before personally I think Arsene should have walked years ago as I don't know how he puts up with the flak. Obviously he loves the club a lot. What I take issue with is comments like the guy is a bad manager and the name calling. The nasty, venomous side of it. That deserves to be challenged.

I don't think the comment about pundits is unfair. Guardiola has spoken of his admiration for Wenger. Most top coaches respect him. The ones who don't tend to be the ones who have never coached, or if they have, ended up flopping spectacularly. Whose opinion deserves more respect? A lot of the stuff about 'sack x, y, z' is just panto stuff. Conte is coming under criticism now. He's become a bad manager in 12 months. Jose would have been getting the Wenger our treatment had he lost that Europa League final to Ajax. But now he's back to being a good manager. Unless he loses to Sevilla and then he's a bad manager again. Totally normal and okay, this!

blueser

Everton

blueser wrote: »

It baffled me. Those are bloody good players that Chelsea have. 9 of them have won PL titles. Have they become bad players in the space of a few months? Hardly. It must be down to Conte; he decides the tactics, surely? As I said earlier, everyone knows that the teams who have given us most problems have been the ones who actually had a go at us. Why didn't they have a go? Very odd.

Yes it is down to Conte and his poor tactics..however
This has happened multiple times in multiple years with these players.
Hazard has done this so many times before.
Players have too much power. Just as much to blame as the manager.

MD1990

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Yes it is down to Conte and his poor tactics..however
This has happened multiple times in multiple years with these players.
Hazard has done this so many times before.
Players have too much power. Just as much to blame as the manager.

He was playing up front with mostly high balls being played to him.

Not much he can do with that.

tayto lover

MD1990 wrote: »

He was playing up front with mostly high balls being played to him.

Not much he can do with that.

Pedro killed Hazard today.
He made some great runs but Pedro couldn't hit the ground with his hat in 3 tries. Hazard is a very good and honest player but if the service is not provided then it shows. He had to come into his own half to try and start moves himself.

Iused2likebusts

Liverpool

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats the CL places sorted now. At least the relegation battle looks lively yet!

Things can turn very quickly . Spurs and Liverpool still have to go to Chelsea. Utd have Liverpool and city in the next few weeks. Chelsea could be out of the cl and utd spurs Liverpool still in it could give them a bit of an advantage aswell.

MD1990

Everton

MD1990 wrote: »

He was playing up front with mostly high balls being played to him.

Not much he can do with that.

Poor excuse if you ask me. He sulks and moans when things don't go his way. And he feigns injury every chance he gets.

An utterly frustrating player. When he's in the mood he's class. When **** hits the fan he couldn't be arsed.

tayto lover

Everton

tayto lover wrote: »

Pedro killed Hazard today.
He made some great runs but Pedro couldn't hit the ground with his hat in 3 tries. Hazard is a very good and honest player but if the service is not provided then it shows. He had to come into his own half to try and start moves himself.

Sorry dude, I don't agree with this part

MD1990

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Poor excuse if you ask me. He sulks and moans when things don't go his way. And he feigns injury every chance he gets.

An utterly frustrating player. When he's in the mood he's class. When **** hits the fan he couldn't be arsed.

So a player playing out of position in a team with 28% possession & that had 2 shots is a poor excuse as too why he didn't play well.

Strange.

martyos121

Liverpool

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not sure what fancy language and clever idioms I used tbh! Fan opinion isn't always a great measure of deciding the best course of action. There was a time United fans wanted Ferguson gone. I can remember the Liverpool fan arguments on here from pro-Rafa and anti-Rafa sides when his team started suffering poor results and it wasn't like things improved after he left.

I have no issue with Arsenal fans wanting a change. As I've said before personally I think Arsene should have walked years ago as I don't know how he puts up with the flak. Obviously he loves the club a lot. What I take issue with is comments like the guy is a bad manager and the name calling. The nasty, venomous side of it. That deserves to be challenged.

I don't think the comment about pundits is unfair. Guardiola has spoken of his admiration for Wenger. Most top coaches respect him. The ones who don't tend to be the ones who have never coached, or if they have, ended up flopping spectacularly. Whose opinion deserves more respect? A lot of the stuff about 'sack x, y, z' is just panto stuff. Conte is coming under criticism now. He's become a bad manager in 12 months. Jose would have been getting the Wenger our treatment had he lost that Europa League final to Ajax. But now he's back to being a good manager. Unless he loses to Sevilla and then he's a bad manager again. Totally normal and okay, this!

I think we’re starting to go round in circles here because I firmly believe that Wenger isn’t a manager who’s cut out for a job like Arsenal anymore and hasn’t been for a few years now and the mess I refer to has arisen from him being kept on past his sell by date. I get what you mean about managers being seen as world class one week and poor the next but I pay a lot more attention to the criticism because it usually highlights critical flaws in a manager’s tactics, praise comes and goes and when it comes to pundits, isn’t usually a good measuring stick because they can be far too liberal with it. With Wenger though, I can’t remember the last time I saw any meaningful praise of his tactics or any other managerial skills even when things are going well for Arsenal. That’s a major concern.

I simply believe he can’t do a good job at a big club anymore and there’s a lot of evidence to support that. You mention that he should’ve walked away because of the flak but from my point of view, it’s very much deserved. Again, not all his fault, the board chose to keep him in charge but I’ve beaten that point to death at this stage so I’ll leave it there.

I still disagree with you and I can’t see any points being made by either of us to change the other’s mind to be honest. I’m happy to leave it there if you are but I’m not conceding that my points are incorrect, I stand by them fully.

MD1990

Everton

MD1990 wrote: »

So a player playing out of position in a team with 28% possession & that had 2 shots is a poor excuse as too why he didn't play well.

Strange.

He did **** all. As bad as the rest of them.
I've already said the tactics didn't help but he's still capable of doing much more.
And he didn't. He huffed and puffed.

dfx-

Everton

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Somewhere Anthony Buttimer is shaking his head.

I would love Buttimer to referee in the EPL. Firstly because it would put him 200 miles away from an LOI ground and secondly to see how the punditocracy and hundreds of podcasts work out his decisions...

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

martyos121 wrote: »

I think we’re starting to go round in circles here because I firmly believe that Wenger isn’t a manager who’s cut out for a job like Arsenal anymore and hasn’t been for a few years now and the mess I refer to has arisen from him being kept on past his sell by date. I get what you mean about managers being seen as world class one week and poor the next but I pay a lot more attention to the criticism because it usually highlights critical flaws in a manager’s tactics, praise comes and goes and when it comes to pundits, isn’t usually a good measuring stick because they can be far too liberal with it. With Wenger though, I can’t remember the last time I saw any meaningful praise of his tactics or any other managerial skills even when things are going well for Arsenal. That’s a major concern.

I simply believe he can’t do a good job at a big club anymore and there’s a lot of evidence to support that. You mention that he should’ve walked away because of the flak but from my point of view, it’s very much deserved. Again, not all his fault, the board chose to keep him in charge but I’ve beaten that point to death at this stage so I’ll leave it there.

I still disagree with you and I can’t see any points being made by either of us to change the other’s mind to be honest. I’m happy to leave it there if you are but I’m not conceding that my points are incorrect, I stand by them fully.

You say he hasn't been cut out for a job like Arsenal for a few years now and there's plenty of evidence to support that. Well there's plenty of evidence to counter that too. He's won three FA Cups in the past four years - the most recent one denying the league champions a double - and he got his team to another cup final this year as well, losing to a team that are running away with the league. I would not call that record a mess, nor would I say it is the CV of someone not cut out for a big job. I also don't think it warrants the vitriol that has been sent his way either (not by you but others).

I posed the question a few days ago: "What's more likely: that it's a fact of life that an elite coach only has a shelf life of quality that lasts a year, or that the sport is becoming a ridiculous revolving door of coaches who are too easily made scapegoats for the failings of others to keep the circus going?" I think this point remains valid when you see the coaches that are routinely dismissed as rubbish these days. Again, I think it's a circus and a soap opera designed to get tongues wagging, sell newspapers, and create internet celebrities.

I agree it doesn't look like we will come to much common ground on this so as Bill O' would say, we'll leave it there so.

ziggyman17

Everton

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Shocking that only the top 6 have a positive goal difference

In years past, the top teams would have it put up to them by teams in the bottom 3, but now the league is very poor, probably the poorest it is since the Premier league started up.......

Bridge93

Liverpool

Yeah instead of journeyman English players with a bit of pride in the teams they represent you now have journeyman foreigners earning three times what their predecessors got who couldn't give a **** about Stoke or West Brom etc

martyos121

martyos121 wrote: »

I think we’re starting to go round in circles here because I firmly believe that Wenger isn’t a manager who’s cut out for a job like Arsenal anymore and hasn’t been for a few years now and the mess I refer to has arisen from him being kept on past his sell by date. I get what you mean about managers being seen as world class one week and poor the next but I pay a lot more attention to the criticism because it usually highlights critical flaws in a manager’s tactics, praise comes and goes and when it comes to pundits, isn’t usually a good measuring stick because they can be far too liberal with it. With Wenger though, I can’t remember the last time I saw any meaningful praise of his tactics or any other managerial skills even when things are going well for Arsenal...

FA Cup Final last year...praise heaped on him and Arsenal for completely outwitting a Chelsea side that was expected to win after an excellent season...

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Shocking that only the top 6 have a positive goal difference

Wow that's a pretty incredible stat. Years ago it was said the money pumping into the league would make it more competitive and lead to more Leicester-like teams challenging for the title. The opposite seems to be happening.

IncognitoMan

blueser wrote: »

It baffled me. Those are bloody good players that Chelsea have. 9 of them have won PL titles. Have they become bad players in the space of a few months? Hardly. It must be down to Conte; he decides the tactics, surely? As I said earlier, everyone knows that the teams who have given us most problems have been the ones who actually had a go at us. Why didn't they have a go? Very odd.

Yeah Conte's tactics were miles off today, and he rightly should be criticized. Sitting back for 90 min against City is the absolute worst strategy you can use.

Should have been Giroud up top with Hazard and Willian behind, hit the ball up to Giroud and let him hold it up and bring others into play or flick it on. It would't be pretty but it would be a lot more effective than what they did. You put that City defense under pressure and you'll get chances. Let them play and they'll just walk through you.

On the part about these players suddenly becoming bad after being Champions, well that's the second time this (largely the same) group of players has fallen away after becoming Champions, serious questions to be asked there.

blueser

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Yeah Conte's tactics were miles off today, and he rightly should be criticized. Sitting back for 90 min against City is the absolute worst strategy you can use.

Should have been Giroud up top with Hazard and Willian behind, hit the ball up to Giroud and let him hold it up and bring others into play or flick it on. It would't be pretty but it would be a lot more effective than what they did. You put that City defense under pressure and you'll get chances. Let them play and they'll just walk through you.

On the part about these players suddenly becoming bad after being Champions, well that's the second time this (largely the same) group of players has fallen away after becoming Champions, serious questions to be asked there.

It's widely believed that our defence is the weak link in our team. Yet we've got the joint best defensive record in the league with utd (20 goals conceded, 4 of them in a crazy 60 minutes at Anfield). I suppose it's down to Pep's philosophy of controlling possession. If you've got the ball, the other team can't score.