General Premier League Thread - 2017/2018

LuckyLloyd

jacool wrote: »

Juventus fell apart when Real Madrid squeezed at a key moment in the tie, and that was after Christmas as well. Same thing, different game. Spurs were unlucky on the night in question, nothing to do with respect.
Spurs biggest challenge is like that for Liverpool, realising that points on the board in the first 3 months is key to a title challenge. By game 10 Spurs had lost to Man Utd and Chelsea whilst drawing with Burnley and Swansea. They were playing catchup too early on.

"We knew Spurs were weak in defence and fragile mentally. Experience told in the end" - Giorgio Chiellini

Could be an apt quote for Saturday's second half too...

jiltloop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

"We knew Spurs were weak in defence and fragile mentally. Experience told in the end" - Giorgio Chiellini

Could be an apt quote for Saturday's second half too...

A single quote from an opposition player is not enough to validate your point.

Look, I can include quotes that counter your opinion.

"It was a very good performance from Tottenham, I thought they were excellent, and we are not surprised at this stage," stated the Ireland assistant manager.
"This is a huge boost for Tottenham, for their confidence and self belief. They were fantastic and it is the best feeling in the world when you can win a football match like that. To turn over Real Madrid as comfortably as they did tonight, it can only breed confidence throughout the whole club." Roy Keane

"Tottenham, vibrant in their performance, destroyed the champions after a fantastic second half when they imposed their speed and punch to burst all the fragile seams of the team that was the envy of the continent but has now become vulgar and easy to beat.” Jesús Sánchez - Spanish Journalist

'They were better & can win the Champions League' Zinedine Zidane


It's pretty clear that people took notice of Spurs European performances this season and it was an obvious progression from last season which was the original point. To argue otherwise and claim it was an easy group is ridiculous tbh.

Trigger

Liverpool

Spurs biggest downfall is their mentality, which is why I was so surprised At Poch downplaying the importance of winning the FA cup. Learning to win trophies will instill a winning mentality into the team, they can look back on that and see that they have won before and use that to their advantage on the pitch. Right now all they are looking back on is a history of this teams what could have beens.

LuckyLloyd

No doubt there were glowing reviews following beating Real. But they are still in the competition, and Juventus never doubted they would beat ye in the second round.

And so they should have been so confident! Spurs haven’t reached even a European Semi Final in 34 years. They have no European tradition that is at all relevant at this stage and a 2nd round exit hardly changes that. As much you’d like it to.

jiltloop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No doubt there were glowing reviews following beating Real. But they are still in the competition, and Juventus never doubted they would beat ye in the second round.

And so they should have been so confident! Spurs haven’t reached even a European Semi Final in 34 years. They have no European tradition that is at all relevant at this stage and a 2nd round exit hardly changes that. As much you’d like it to.

You're moving the goal posts all over the place now. You highlighted a part of someone's post above and disagreed that Spurs had made progress in Europe this season and said we had an easy group. I was arguing against your comments because I thought they were ridiculous.

Now you're talking about Real still being in the competition and European tradition??

LuckyLloyd

jiltloop wrote: »

You're moving the goal posts all over the place now. You highlighted a part of someone's post above and disagreed that Spurs had made progress in Europe this season and said we had an easy group. I was arguing against your comments because I thought they were ridiculous.

Now you're talking about Real still being in the competition and European tradition??

I'm not moving the goalposts. A poster said Spurs had "established themselves as a force in Europe". That is nonsense. Spurs had an average CL campaign and remain a club with zero European tradition in the modern game. My posts all speak to that core point.

MD1990

Spurs have only ever won 1 CL KO tie in there history lol.

They folded against the poorest Juventus side since 2011 who lost to Napoli at the weekend & look like they will lose the Serie A title this year.

beya2009

Spurs are on the up...no doubt about it...they have so many top players it's unreal! It's very odd Poch only interested in champions league and winning league but they cannot compete financially with the big boys so it's unrealistic...winning a domestic cup would be huge for them surely.

beya2009

Btw totally deserved Salah won PFA. KDB has been outstanding this season too. Scary thing is that both will probably continue to improve next season.

Lukker-

One will probably end up improving at Real Madrid though

Rekop dog

Spurs

beya2009 wrote: »

Btw totally deserved Salah won PFA. KDB has been outstanding this season too. Scary thing is that both will probably continue to improve next season.

I wouldn't be so sure. The Messi/Ronaldo type model of doing it consistently at a ridiculous level season after season isn't the norm.

Perhaps the standard they've set may push lads like Salah on to try replicate that but Its a massive ask to improve on or even maintain what's he's produced this year.

greenspurs

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not moving the goalposts. A poster said Spurs had "established themselves as a force in Europe". That is nonsense. Spurs had an average CL campaign and remain a club with zero European tradition in the modern game. My posts all speak to that core point.

Are you jealous ? worried about Spurs being a regular top4 team now?

Or just the usual bitter Chelsea or gooner fan ?

Trigger

Liverpool

greenspurs wrote: »

Are you jealous ? worried about Spurs being a regular top4 team now?

Or just the usual bitter Chelsea or gooner fan ?

His team are ahead of ye tbf

Drumpot

astradave wrote: »

Spurs biggest downfall is their mentality, which is why I was so surprised At Poch downplaying the importance of winning the FA cup. Learning to win trophies will instill a winning mentality into the team, they can look back on that and see that they have won before and use that to their advantage on the pitch. Right now all they are looking back on is a history of this teams what could have beens.

I agree with this statement. It’s funny how much people love writing off Jose and slagging United’s cups wins.

Yes, man United’s target and expected success for spending is ultimately the champions league and/or league title. But the players reaction after beating city in a relatively meaningless league game and Jose’s response shows the difference between a winning manager and players who are content with lower standards.

Winning trophies creates confidence and helps build a squad that gets more hungry for success. I personally think Jose has brought higher standards and a more ruthless winning mentality to the United squad that most people can’t or won’t really appreciate. Partly cause he isn’t the most likable manager and because of their rose tinted outlook on Pep who is excempt from critical analysis on most levels (including his behavior) because of the style of football he plays.

Spurs problem is players will rightfully ask, what’s the chance of any silverware? The answer is not obvious and despite this being a ridiculously talented spurs team there is a huge monkey on their back that won’t be brushed aside this season.

Spurs will do well to hold onto the majority of their top players this summer. I personally hope they retain them all and strengthen so they can help clawback the Middle East oil machine from dominating ....

GavRedKing

Liverpool

greenspurs wrote: »

Are you jealous ? worried about Spurs being a regular top4 team now?

Or just the usual bitter Chelsea or gooner fan ?

I dont think any Chelsea or Arsenal fan are bitter at Spurs, not at the moment, not until they consistently or reguarly land silverware .

Both teams have had considerably more success in the last 2 or 3 decades than Spurs have had.

Lloyd is also a Pool fan, for the record.

Quazzie

Man Utd

Funny how Spurs are an "established force in Europe" now and regular "top 4 team" but these achievements are exactly what Arsenal achieved in previous, much to the mocking and derision of Spurs fans.

jacool

Liverpool

MD1990 wrote: »

Spurs have only ever won 1 CL KO tie in there history lol.

They folded against the poorest Juventus side since 2011 who lost to Napoli at the weekend & look like they will lose the Serie A title this year.

By this logic should I assume that Real Madrid, who only just fell over the line against "the poorest Juventus side since 2011" will be knocked out by Bayern?

greenspurs

GavRedKing wrote: »

I dont think any Chelsea or Arsenal fan are bitter at Spurs, not at the moment, not until they consistently or reguarly land silverware .

Both teams have had considerably more success in the last 2 or 3 decades than Spurs have had.

Lloyd is also a Pool fan, for the record.

So , you judge how well a club is doing by their silverware? Or on the gradual improvements made to get to win a trophy? Or just the acquisition of a sugar daddy to bankroll a trophy ?

Ohh Arsenal fans are quite bitter ! And I know a lot of em!

Pool - should have known, I'm surprised he didn't mention Kane tho ! :rolleyes:

Rekop dog

Spurs

I haven't been over enamormed with Spurs this year tbh. I think they've the 2nd best starting 11 in the league but they've only showed it in fleeting moments rather than consistently.

Think it was an unlucky year to move to Wembley as they probably needed to show progression from last year to keep a few of their stars on board and the stadium change must have handicapped them somewhat. Can only see a downward trajectory for their short to medium term future now, think it will be a tough summer in the transfer market.

Also be nice if every argument wasn't boiled down to who people support and trolling accusations, it's really tiresome to read.

Deise Vu

Rekop dog wrote: »

I haven't been over enamormed with Spurs this year tbh. I think they've the 2nd best starting 11 in the league but they've only showed it in fleeting moments rather than consistently.

Think it was an unlucky year to move to Wembley as they probably needed to show progression from last year to keep a few of their stars on board and the stadium change must have handicapped them somewhat. Can only see a downward trajectory for their short to medium term future now, think it will be a tough summer in the transfer market.

The stadium move came right at the wrong time for Spurs OK. I don't see any major changes in personnel in the Summer though, especially if they get CL football which they should. Agents / players know from the Modric saga that there is no point in trying to engineer a move. Also look at Rose and Alderweireld this season, how much of their absence was due to injury and how much was a slapdown? Then there is the problem for other clubs in paying the Levy levy.

Spurs revenues to last June jumped nearly £100M after a poor CL campaign. This year should be way higher plus naming rights and match day income increases so I would imagine Spurs would be in a position to offer better terms in the short-term. The players dilemma then is do I take an increase for a longer term contract or do I stay on relatively lower pay and run down my contract. Nobody is better than Levy at playing the contracts game.

greenspurs

Yes, it prob was unlucky to be away from the Lane, and next season we will have another new stadium to get used to.
There always seems to be some fly in our ointment. The chairmans refusal to pay players the going/comparable wages (although the bonuses at Spurs are very generous) is what is handicapping the club. Spurs are punching above their financial weight on the football pitch , but that cant/wont last.
Levy is behaving like he has always done, Buy em small Sell em big. he wont change, and Joe Lewis seems to be happy with that profitability .
A Downward trajectory ? I'm not sure, but I'm also not sure of the reverse either.

Iused2likebusts

Liverpool

Despite his goal stats I think Kane has been a bit below his usual level this season. His goals have come in 2s and 3s in a lot of games. His goals have all been scored in 15 of the 34 league games.

LuckyLloyd

greenspurs wrote: »

Are you jealous ? worried about Spurs being a regular top4 team now?

Or just the usual bitter Chelsea or gooner fan ?

I didn't mention Spur's top four status once. This is squarely a conversation around Europe, and the nonsense contention Spurs have become an 'established force' in that arena.

As a Liverpool fan, I feel pretty good about where things generally lie this morning.

GavRedKing

Liverpool

greenspurs wrote: »

So , you judge how well a club is doing by their silverware? Or on the gradual improvements made to get to win a trophy? Or just the acquisition of a sugar daddy to bankroll a trophy ?

Ohh Arsenal fans are quite bitter ! And I know a lot of em!

Pool - should have known, I'm surprised he didn't mention Kane tho ! :rolleyes:

Spurs have been doing that, gradual improvements, however, theyve done it minus the trophy and dont look like getting one in the trophy cabinet anytime soon either.

Liverpool are on the same trajectory, to be slightly further down the road towards success than Spurs.

Having a a rich owner isnt a guarantee of success either, it helps though, but there is no such thing as poor club in the elite ranks of the PL, all of them are bank rolled to the hilt by rich owners/investors.

Deise Vu

GavRedKing wrote: »

Spurs have been doing that, gradual improvements, however, theyve done it minus the trophy and dont look like getting one in the trophy cabinet anytime soon either.

Liverpool are on the same trajectory, to be slightly further down the road towards success than Spurs.

Having a a rich owner isnt a guarantee of success either, it helps though, but there is no such thing as poor club in the elite ranks of the PL, all of them are bank rolled to the hilt by rich owners/investors.

This last bit is simply not true. Spurs, as a company are worth £227M as of last June which is made up of Shares / Share Premium of £45M and accumulated profits of £181M. The comparative figures for Man City are it is worth £678M made up of almost £1.3 Bn invested and accumulated losses of £619M. Chelsea is worth £305M made up of £1.09 Bn invested and losses of £776M. That is exactly £800M more spent by City versus Spurs and the guts of nearly £1Bn extra spent by Chelsea which was only possible because it was bankrolled by the Sheiks and Abramovitch. Pray Roman never falls out with Vlad!

greenspurs

GavRedKing wrote: »

Spurs have been doing that, gradual improvements, however, theyve done it minus the trophy and dont look like getting one in the trophy cabinet anytime soon either.

Liverpool are on the same trajectory, to be slightly further down the road towards success than Spurs.

Having a a rich owner isnt a guarantee of success either, it helps though, but there is no such thing as poor club in the elite ranks of the PL, all of them are bank rolled to the hilt by rich owners/investors.

Ridiculous statement....

No top 6 club can compete with City or Chelsea, or even Utd .

charolais0153

Arsenal

Deise Vu wrote: »

This last bit is simply not true. Spurs, as a company are worth £227M as of last June which is made up of Shares / Share Premium of £45M and accumulated profits of £181M. The comparative figures for Man City are it is worth £678M made up of almost £1.3 Bn invested and accumulated losses of £619M. Chelsea is worth £305M made up of £1.09 Bn invested and losses of £776M. That is exactly £800M more spent by City versus Spurs and the guts of nearly £1Bn extra spent by Chelsea which was only possible because it was bankrolled by the Sheiks and Abramovitch. Pray Roman never falls out with Vlad!

Thats bloody historically ... Chelsea arent the financial force of old...they used to buy young exciting players like oscar,willian,hazard but now they struggle to land top players like alex sandro and get players like drink water,zappacosta,barkley instead.
Selling top quality players like oscar,Ramires,costa without proper proven replacements was risky also

Lucas Hood

greenspurs wrote: »

Ridiculous statement....

No top 6 club can compete with City or Chelsea, or even Utd .

Hang on you can't say no top 6 can compete with city then name 2 who can ?

Plus Liverpool just dropped 75m on a centre back they can compete alright.

So maybe 2 can't compete? Or choose not too ?
Probably the latter.

Trigger

Liverpool

Deise Vu wrote: »

This last bit is simply not true. Spurs, as a company are worth £227M as of last June which is made up of Shares / Share Premium of £45M and accumulated profits of £181M. The comparative figures for Man City are it is worth £678M made up of almost £1.3 Bn invested and accumulated losses of £619M. Chelsea is worth £305M made up of £1.09 Bn invested and losses of £776M. That is exactly £800M more spent by City versus Spurs and the guts of nearly £1Bn extra spent by Chelsea which was only possible because it was bankrolled by the Sheiks and Abramovitch. Pray Roman never falls out with Vlad!

In fairness Chelsea have moved away from Abromovich’s pockets in recent years and are set up financially to be run within their means. I do think he is funding the stadium though. City on the other hand...

Trigger

Liverpool

GavRedKing wrote: »

Spurs have been doing that, gradual improvements, however, theyve done it minus the trophy and dont look like getting one in the trophy cabinet anytime soon either.

Liverpool are on the same trajectory, to be slightly further down the road towards success than Spurs.

Having a a rich owner isnt a guarantee of success either, it helps though, but there is no such thing as poor club in the elite ranks of the PL, all of them are bank rolled to the hilt by rich owners/investors.

Who are these rich owners/investors that are “bank rolling” United?

Gbear

Liverpool

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Hang on top can't say no top 6 can compete with city then name 2 who can ?

Plus Liverpool just dropped 75m on a centre back they can compete alright.

Only so long as they can keep selling players like Coutinho at an astronomical profit.

Liverpool have spent a fair whack in the last three years, but it's mostly been funded by player sales, whereas Utd and City don't have that tether.

Chelsea, whatever about how they got to be in this situation, seem to be more or less self-funding at this point. They essentially have a talent farm as a side business that funds transfers.

rob316

No matter your budget, signing the right players is what matters.

Lucas Hood

Gbear wrote: »

Only so long as they can keep selling players like Coutinho at an astronomical profit.

Liverpool have spent a fair whack in the last three years, but it's mostly been funded by player sales, whereas Utd and City don't have that tether.

Chelsea, whatever about how they got to be in this situation, seem to be more or less self-funding at this point. They essentially have a talent farm as a side business that funds transfers.

They still have Salah to sell they'll be fine for awhile yet.

Utopia Parkway

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Plus Liverpool just dropped 75m on a centre back they can compete alright.

Financed by selling our best player (at the time) for twice as much. That is the difference.

Lukker-

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Financed by selling our best player (at the time) for twice as much. That is the difference.

Coutinho was sold for 150m?

Just nitpicking, I accept your point.

Spurs could have a weird dressing room this summer if Toby and Dembele leave. Kane will prob be asking himself does he ever actually want to win anything if they don't replace them with top talent.

greenspurs

Dembele is getting on, and the bit of pace he has is slowing.
Ready made replacement in Wanyama anyway.

Toby is gone, "Contract Rebels" are a poison that need to be got rid of.

TitianGerm

Liverpool

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Hang on you can't say no top 6 can compete with city then name 2 who can ?

Plus Liverpool just dropped 75m on a centre back they can compete alright.

So maybe 2 can't compete? Or choose not too ?
Probably the latter.

Liverpool sell players to buy more.

Lukker-

greenspurs wrote: »

Dembele is getting on, and the bit of pace he has is slowing.
Ready made replacement in Wanyama anyway.

Toby is gone, "Contract Rebels" are a poison that need to be got rid of.

Contract rebels are going to become more and more normal as players realise they can win and earn more elsewhere.

I also wouldn't call Wanyama a direct replacement for Dembele? Nothing alike really, except they occupy similar areas of the park.

Lucas Hood

Dembele and Waynama couldn't be more different players

beya2009

In the end it's surely about winning trophies and paying players what they feel they deserve. For a team like Spurs...say in the next 5 years their consistently finishing top 4 but never win anything...will talent like Deli Ali, Kane and Ericksen still be there? They already look like they will lose toby alderweireld and danny rose and they have already lost kyle walker. These are top players that would make most of teams. Sur you have a player like Barca's umtiti willing to leave barca to man u or something because he can treble his wages.

Harry Palmr

Guardian Premier League Ineptitude Index for 2017/18

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/27/the-premier-league-teams-ineptitude-index-2017-18

Arsenal fans, look away now! (and Watford if there are any here)

GavRedKing

Liverpool

Good read that, especially the goalkeeping bit.

Although if you asked, without using Google, whihc Gks made the most mistakes this year that led to goals, my 3 guesses would have been Hart, Cech and Lloris.

I dont watch Arsenal all that much but Cech does seem prone to error a hell of lot more now than he did even 5 years ago.

Shanotheslayer

Liverpool

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Guardian Premier League Ineptitude Index for 2017/18

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/27/the-premier-league-teams-ineptitude-index-2017-18

Arsenal fans, look away now! (and Watford if there are any here)

Sure the Arsenal fans are just delighted they didn't come 4th :pac:

Minderbinder

How bad have Stoke been in the transfer market when they’ve got Crouch starting away at Anfield?

castletownman

Minderbinder wrote: »

How bad have Stoke been in the transfer market when they’ve got Crouch starting away at Anfield?

Conversely, how bad have Liverpool been in the transfer market when Stoke are better stocked in midfield away at Anfield?

Bridge93

Liverpool

So as it stands if this stays a draw Liverpool will be 9 ahead of Chelsea in 5th. Chelsea have two games in hand and play Liverpool at Stamford Bridge next

niallo27

Arsenal

Bridge93 wrote: »

So as it stands if this stays a draw Liverpool will be 9 ahead of Chelsea in 5th. Chelsea have two games in hand and play Liverpool at Stamford Bridge next

Goal difference worth another point. Chelsea would still be behind.

niallo27

Arsenal

What happens if Liverpool come 5th and win the champions league and arsenal win Europa. Will there be 6 sides in the CL.

Lukker-

niallo27 wrote: »

What happens if Liverpool come 5th and win the champions league and arsenal win Europa. Will there be 6 sides in the CL.

Jup

citytillidie

niallo27 wrote: »

What happens if Liverpool come 5th and win the champions league and arsenal win Europa. Will there be 6 sides in the CL.

Nope who ever finishes 4th would miss out only 5 teams from one country can be in the CL