General Premier League Thread - 2017/2018

KingdomYid

KingdomYid wrote: »

I suppose you are right in a way, perhaps it's only since they have started to break the traditional top four that other teams have started to dislike them. They were probably insignificant to most other teams before that. I still believe a lot of neutrals would be on our side or maybe I am wide of the mark?

The more teams win the more they are disliked so take it as a compliment!

KERSPLAT!

Liverpool

I generally dislike clubs because of their fans, take from that what you will

~Rebel~

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

There seems to be an increasing pomposity among clubs over style of play vis-a-vis functional football. Allardyce and Moyes did a good job all things considered but increasing numbers of fans feel this manner of football isn't satisfactory in the modern game due to the glorification of possession football, gegenpressing etc. The art of defending doesn't seem to be appreciated these days.

I suspect the above clubs will come to regret their approach. Southampton sacked Pellegrino over concerns about his style of play and they almost came to regret it. I also remember James McClean saying in an interview recently that Pardew took over and told them 'go out and express yourselves' and the players struggled because they were used to the Pulis approach of strong organisation. Moore brought things back to basics and they did much better.

Burnley finished 7th, Everton 8th, Newcastle 10th, West Ham 13th, Brighton 15th, Huddersfield 16th: to me these finishes are pretty good considering the squads they have; and while some supporters of these teams are content, others seem to have unrealistic expectations.

I remember Blackpool won many admirers with the attacking style they played but they still went down. Considering what has happened to them since, I'm sure most of their supporters would rather have had Burnley or Brighton's experience.

Totally agree with regards to Moyes - he had them playing quite decent attacking stuff at times, and got a lovely bit of a partnership going between Lanzini and Arnautovic. To be honest I think he's probably better off though, that club is never too far away from lurching into another disaster. He came out of the job looking better than he did going into it, so its a win for him I think.

But Sam... football is about escapism. Short bursts of extreme emotion you can lose yourself in. Watching Sam's Everton was enough to make you break out the box of receipts and start working on your tax return.

There wasn't even the pretense of trying to do anything exciting, and whenever some bit of lovely play broke out it felt like it was in spite of the plan, rather than because of it. Even with two flier wing forwards, two fantastic attacking full backs, a striker bang in form, and more talented number 10's than you can shake a stick at, there didn't seem to be any intention to actually use those strengths. As a fan, why would you keep paying to spend a whole day going to the stadium for football that is actively set out not to excite you? Or even tune in on tv for an afternoon of screaming "pass it forward! look! he's free! why won't you pass it forward!? - nooo not back to Williams!". 8th is great and all, but if the journey throughout the season to get to 8th is a horrible monotonous mess, then what's the point of it all?

thebaz

~Rebel~ wrote: »

But Sam... football is about escapism. Short bursts of extreme emotion you can lose yourself in. Watching Sam's Everton was enough to make you break out the box of receipts and start working on your tax return.

There wasn't even the pretense of trying to do anything exciting, and whenever some bit of lovely play broke out it felt like it was in spite of the plan, rather than because of it. Even with two flier wing forwards, two fantastic attacking full backs, a striker bang in form, and more talented number 10's than you can shake a stick at, there didn't seem to be any intention to actually use those strengths. As a fan, why would you keep paying to spend a whole day going to the stadium for football that is actively set out not to excite you? Or even tune in on tv for an afternoon of screaming "pass it forward! look! he's free! why won't you pass it forward!? - nooo not back to Williams!". 8th is great and all, but if the journey throughout the season to get to 8th is a horrible monotonous mess, then what's the point of it all?

as an Everton fan - watching Everton recently really is nearly as bad as filing tax returns - then we had to endure our forum hijacked by outsiders claiming Sam was the saviour of our club playing expansive football - he did a job for us this season but the football to put it mildly was unpretty if nearly unwatchable , all round so glad he is gone - and he looked miserable himslef at the club. Personally if our team won silverware under someone like Pullis, would feal it the same as if playing football the right way - enduring MON Ireland , is simarly tough going. So football style is important.

Iused2likebusts

Liverpool

Sam had nearly a quarter of the season to show he could get a team playing decent football as they were safe and the pressure was off. He was incapable of doing that. The football was awful with no ambition. This is okay when you are managing Bolton and are the underdog but rightly so Everton fans expect more. All Sam does is promote himself blames the players when things go wrong and praises himself when things go well. Everton have done the right thing in getting rid of him. Perfect man to step in and save a team from relegation next season and thats his level.

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

I don't think people remember just how bad Everton were when Allardyce took over.

They were 18th in the league I believe when Koeman was sacked.

They went out of the Europa League with a whimper, getting 1 point from their first 5 games in the group with a bleary-eyed Koeman on the sidelines sporting a a mangy beard and looking like a recovering smack addict.

Then Unsworth only managed 1 win out of 7 games, killing off his chances of getting the job. It was a crisis.

If you said when Allardyce took over that he would take that Everton team to 8th, not many would have believed it. I really don't know what more Everton fans expect with that squad. You could argue they could have maybe finished above Burnley, but they were more consistent than Everton throughout the campaign. No way Everton have the quality of the league's top six.

I think Everton fans have unrealistic expectations. Not every team will play attacking football successfully next season, simply because most of the clubs seem intent on trying to and something has to give. Chances are it will be the teams with the better players - i.e. not Everton - who will do best with this approach. As things stand I wouldn't be surprised if Everton are facing another crisis next season and need some other pragmatic coach to come in and save their blushes, though unlike Sam maybe this time they'll get someone with more personal charm. Ranieri perhaps.

ERG89

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

They were 18th in the league I believe when Koeman was sacked.

They were 13th & 3 points off 8th.

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

ERG89 wrote: »

They were 13th & 3 points off 8th.

They were 18th.

Everton have sacked manager Ronald Koeman after Sunday's 5-2 home defeat by Arsenal left them in the Premier League relegation zone.

A statement said the club "would like to express their gratitude to Ronald for the service he has given to the club over the past 16 months".

The Toffees are 18th in the Premier League and have won just two of their nine league games this season.

"I still believe I can change the whole situation," Koeman had said on Sunday.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41683786

mickmackey1

Big Sam's style is fairly Stone Age no doubt, but no one can deny his firefighting abilities. Everton fans seem to be living in a fantasy world, where they should be challenging for trophies AND playing quality football. In reality they are living on past glories and, unwilling to spend proper money, are making up the numbers in the Prem. Serve them right if they're relegated next year.

Lucas Hood

ERG89 wrote: »

They were 13th & 3 points off 8th.

You're probably thinking of when Big Sam took over from Unsworth. They had a couple of wins under him if my memory serves me right.

Guy:Incognito

Lucas Hood wrote: »

You're probably thinking of when Big Sam took over from Unsworth. They had a couple of wins under him if my memory serves me right.

The Unsworth time can't be attributed to him though. He didn't take over when they were in 18th.

They were 18th when Koeman left yes, but not when Sam took over.

theoneeyedman

Lucas Hood wrote: »

You're probably thinking of when Big Sam took over from Unsworth. They had a couple of wins under him if my memory serves me right.

That's right.
Sam had Everton over a barrel tho when they came calling. They had pissed about and tapped up Silva and when Watford told them to Fvck off, they were panicking. Sam was in a great position and wangled an 18 month contract, basically screwing them over.for.the 5 million they were willing to pay Watford for Silva, and fair play to him, but they didn't really want him, and I don't think anyone believed he would see it out.

Iused2likebusts

Liverpool

Sam took over Everton when they were 13th in the table on 15 points. Leicester were 9th in the table at the time on 17 pts. Everton had played everyone bar Huddersfield, Liverpool, Swansea, Newcastle and wba. Two teams that got relegated and two newly promoted teams. They had a very tricky set of fixtures to start the season. Sam took over for favourable fixtures. He did OK but he is successful at pushing a narrative that his achievements were better than they were. He also was able to benefit from the return of their best player Coleman and he got a wideman back with a bit of pace bolasie . He also spent fairly big in January. All things being equal he did an average job and played awful football so Everton did the right thing and got rid of him.

Mr.Nice Guy

Liverpool

Some extremely sketchy revisionist history at work here, almost trying to paint a picture of a very rosy garden that Allardyce breezed on into.

This is from just before his appointment:

Everton are moving closer to appointing Sam Allardyce as their new manager as talks continue to progress positively.

That is despite reports in Portugal suggesting Everton interest in Shakhtar Donetsk coach Paulo Fonseca.

Everton caretaker manager David Unsworth is expected to take charge of Wednesday night's Premier League home meeting with West Ham United.

But the club may even be in a position to confirm Allardyce as Ronald Koeman's successor before that game.

Koeman was sacked by Everton on 23 October after the club slipped to 18th in the Premier League following a 5-2 home defeat by Arsenal.

Allardyce, 63, withdrew from contention to take over from Koeman after failing to receive an offer following talks earlier in November.

However, a run of only one win in seven games under Unsworth, including a 5-1 home defeat to Atalanta and a 4-1 loss at Southampton on Sunday, prompted Everton to resume negotiations with Allardyce over the weekend.

Talks are expected to centre on the length of Allardyce's contract and his backroom staff, which looks likely to include former Leicester City manager Craig Shakespeare, who was sacked by The Foxes earlier this season.

Allardyce may even take the bold step of appointing former Liverpool midfield man Sammy Lee as one of his assistants.

Lee worked with Allardyce when he was at Bolton Wanderers, Crystal Palace and England.

It would be, however, a contentious decision and sure to raise eyebrows among Everton fans given Lee's strong association with Liverpool as a player through their 1980s successes, and also as a previous long-serving member of the Anfield backroom staff.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42159422

To cut a long story short, Everton were desperately seeking anybody but him to take charge, but things were going so pear-shaped that they had to bite the bullet and get him anyway.

Then Fireman Sam did what he always does: came in, put out the fires around him, only to discover then that the townsfolk considered Fireman Sam to be too dated for modern times.

Everton were in 13th place after gameweek 14.

Big Sams 1st game was in game week 15 on Dec 2nd.

They won and moved up to 10th.

Harry Palmr

Paul Lambert leaves Stoke.

Longest serving PL managers in the premier league only. ie no Chris Hougtons, David Wagners etc.

Mauricio Pochettino
Eddie Howe
Jurgen Klopp
Sean Dyche

Agent Coulson

Liverpool

Moore was given the WBA job full time to try and bring them back up.

Tom Mann Centuria

Liverpool

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Moore was given the WBA job full time to try and bring them back up.

Think he deserves a crack at it, and if he said he wanted the job it'd be a brave man to turn him down

AidoEirE

Everton

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Moore was given the WBA job full time to try and bring them back up.

Well deserved to be fair, i like it when all these 'go to' managers do ****e and the caretaker comes in and does a brilliant job.

And the fact he took over from Pardew and just showed him up. Hated the WB of Pulis and Pardew but Moore came in and is getting the basics right.

Think McCean it was that came out and said, Pardew told the team to just go out an express themselves which they found hard after Pulis's rigidness.
Moore came in and just steadied the ship. Was he there for both apppointments as number 2?

I'm watching 'the debate' on sky and how the hell does paul merson get contracted with sky every season. I've heard lads down the pub who talk more sense even after a load of pints in them.

gimli2112

AidoEirE wrote: »

I'm watching 'the debate' on sky and how the hell does paul merson get contracted with sky every season. I've heard lads down the pub who talk more sense even after a load of pints in them.

Agreed, probably comedic value? To be fair to him I've always thought he comes across as a nice guy but some of the stuff he comes out with.

mickmackey1

mickmackey1 wrote: »

In reality they are living on past glories and, unwilling to spend proper money, are making up the numbers in the Prem...

Huh?

Everton are the 6th biggest spenders in the league in recent years...

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

pjohnson

Well Everton will hopefully get their style over substance manager and enjoy what they have sown

AidoEirE

Everton

gimli2112 wrote: »

Agreed, probably comedic value? To be fair to him I've always thought he comes across as a nice guy but some of the stuff he comes out with.

The guy is a farce, good player but wants that cash he missed out on, talks so much nonsense a plenty

Minderbinder

A lot of Everton fans and people who hate Allardyce had their minds made up as soon as he took over and will bend over backwards attempting to prove themselves right. That’s the problem when people arrive at the conclusion, set their opinions in stone first, and then try to argue their points later.

I watched a lot of Everton this season and they definitely weren’t as bad or negative as a lot of people are suggesting. I’m wondering how many of the Everton fans who bailed on the club thread have actually been watching Everton, and if they have I don’t know what the point of quitting the thread was?

There were lots of teams worse to watch than Everton. I agree it was very negative against the bigger teams. And Sam believes in building from solid foundations in defence.

The people suggesting that he should start playing expansive football as soon as they’re safe from relegation must be clueless about how a football team actually evolves and the importance of structure and results in building the confidence that you must have to play good, attractive football. Funnily enough, Everton fans just experienced a manager trying to play pretty football with a team with no confidence and no structure, and he was sacked because it was such a disaster and Sam came in to steady the ship. I’m not saying Sam saved Everton, I think any number of managers could have done a better job than Koeman and Everton would have been fine. But structure is hugely important.

Even Pep is obsessed with structure. Sam is never going to have teams playing anything near tika-taka stuff that is adored by many, but given time he would certainly have produced as good a style as Everton have had in the last 25 years anyway. It may have taken a couple of years. But once the structure was embedded into the team, confidence would grow. I think Sam would make a great long term manager for most clubs, but the impatience of modern fans doesn’t allow for building a structure on solid foundations.

Paully D

I wouldn’t go as far as to call it “tragic”, but this comment is a good one re: Allardyce:

https://twitter.com/capt_fishpaste/status/996683279523708930?s=21

Liamalone

Arsenal

Minderbinder wrote: »

I watched a lot of Everton this season and they definitely weren’t as bad or negative as a lot of people are suggesting. I’m wondering how many of the Everton fans who bailed on the club thread have actually been watching Everton, and if they have I don’t know what the point of quitting the thread was?

There were lots of teams worse to watch than Everton. I agree it was very negative against the bigger teams. And Sam believes in building from solid foundations in defence.
.

Stopped reading this crud here, I've watched every game and the fare served up by Sam was awful, truly awful, it was that bad that I struggled to watch it. Also, his post match comments were farcical at times.

Good riddance.

eh i dunno

Liamalone wrote: »

Stopped reading this crud here, I've watched every game and the fare served up by Sam was awful, truly awful, it was that bad that I struggled to watch it. Also, his post match comments were farcical at times.

Good riddance.

But big Sam was so commited to getting things right

Minderbinder

Liamalone wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote: »

I watched a lot of Everton this season and they definitely weren’t as bad or negative as a lot of people are suggesting. I’m wondering how many of the Everton fans who bailed on the club thread have actually been watching Everton, and if they have I don’t know what the point of quitting the thread was?

There were lots of teams worse to watch than Everton. I agree it was very negative against the bigger teams. And Sam believes in building from solid foundations in defence.
.

Stopped reading this crud here, I've watched every game and the fare served up by Sam was awful, truly awful, it was that bad that I struggled to watch it. Also, his post match comments were farcical at times.

Good riddance.

You unwillingness to read beyond that proves my point about people who made their minds up first, and then went looking for reasons to show how they were right, while ignoring everything else.

Liamalone

Arsenal

Minderbinder wrote: »

You unwillingness to read beyond that proves my point about people who made their minds up first, and then went looking for reasons to show how they were right, while ignoring everything else.

I didn't make my mind up first, I was behind him from the start but that changed over the course of his tenure due to the turgid crap that he set up the team to play. I changed my opinion after the run of three or four games where we didn't have a shot on target. You say you watched the Everton games yet still said the football wasn't that bad, that opinion shows me that you know the square root of feck all and that is why I stopped reading your drivel when I did.

MD1990

Everton's fans expectations are far too unrealistic.

They want/expect to challenge for the CL places.

Maybe Brand will help them in the transfer market as they are awful. No planning bought 3 AM's last summer with no pace.

Rekop dog

Spurs

Minderbinder wrote: »

A lot of Everton fans and people who hate Allardyce had their minds made up as soon as he took over and will bend over backwards attempting to prove themselves right. That’s the problem when people arrive at the conclusion, set their opinions in stone first, and then try to argue their points later.

I watched a lot of Everton this season and they definitely weren’t as bad or negative as a lot of people are suggesting. I’m wondering how many of the Everton fans who bailed on the club thread have actually been watching Everton, and if they have I don’t know what the point of quitting the thread was?

There were lots of teams worse to watch than Everton. I agree it was very negative against the bigger teams. And Sam believes in building from solid foundations in defence.

The people suggesting that he should start playing expansive football as soon as they’re safe from relegation must be clueless about how a football team actually evolves and the importance of structure and results in building the confidence that you must have to play good, attractive football. Funnily enough, Everton fans just experienced a manager trying to play pretty football with a team with no confidence and no structure, and he was sacked because it was such a disaster and Sam came in to steady the ship. I’m not saying Sam saved Everton, I think any number of managers could have done a better job than Koeman and Everton would have been fine. But structure is hugely important.

Even Pep is obsessed with structure. Sam is never going to have teams playing anything near tika-taka stuff that is adored by many, but given time he would certainly have produced as good a style as Everton have had in the last 25 years anyway. It may have taken a couple of years. But once the structure was embedded into the team, confidence would grow. I think Sam would make a great long term manager for most clubs, but the impatience of modern fans doesn’t allow for building a structure on solid foundations.

Spot on but it's tough going getting your regular football fan these days to grasp such things. The lack of respect or appreciation for the defensive structure he built to get the side into European form(against all odds) while he was there is baffling for me. They really showed themselves up as fans this season on the whole.

thebaz

Rekop dog wrote: »

They really showed themselves up as fans this season on the whole.

Don't we know - our thread is currently closed due to our ingratitude to Sam. Sigh

pjohnson

thebaz wrote: »

Don't we know - our thread is currently closed due to our ingratitude to Sam. Sigh

Thats what you take from it? Wow.

thebaz

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats what you take from it? Wow.

Wow -do you ever have anything postive to say about Everton - nevermind

pjohnson

thebaz wrote: »

Wow -do you ever have anything postive to say about Everton - nevermind

Everton the club sure they are a grand team.

Gavlor

The allardyce nonsense has moved over to this thread and has been allowed to rumble on?

Everton fans baited, called out as stupid, clueless and disloyal and yet nothing is being done about it. Modding of the highest standard. I wonder how long i’ll last if I pop over to the United thread and argue with every person there about the greatness of Jose whilst questioning their footballing knowledge.....

Can one report ones own post in order to garner the attention of a mod?

Liamalone

Arsenal

Everton thread was put on the naughty step due to certain posters needlessly overimposing their opinions in a successful attempt to antagonise the natives.

Defensive structure was recently mentioned lol, if I recall the centre half pairing was a lottery draw for the majority of Sam's tenure, eventually he realised Williams was the problem - twas obvious from August imo.

Gavlor

Gavlor wrote: »

Everton fans baited, called out as stupid, clueless and disloyal and yet nothing is being done about it. Modding of the highest standard. I wonder how long i’ll last if I pop over to the United thread and argue with every person there about the greatness of Jose whilst questioning their footballing knowledge.....

Can one report ones own post in order to garner the attention of a mod?

The Everton thread shut down was liked by one person.

Guess who...

Anyway, to keep this thread clear and raise the issue in the proper way, I queried it on Feedback here...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057873623

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Everton thread shut down was liked by one person.

Guess who...

Anyway, to keep this thread clear and raise the issue in the proper way, I queried it on Feedback here...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057873623

Jaysus. Theres regular debates over whether Jose is clueless or not on the United thread, same with Wenger at Arsenal, there was even a lad tryna call Klopp a spoofer once Buvac went wherever for a time. Its a discussion forum. It should have been renamed "Allardyce is terrible superthread" to appease them if they cant handle alternate views. And the whole "no other thread endures this" is just rubbish aswell.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus. Theres regular debates over whether Jose is clueless or not on the United thread, same with Wenger at Arsenal, there was even a lad tryna call Klopp a spoofer once Buvac went wherever for a time. Its a discussion forum. It should have been renamed "Allardyce is terrible superthread" to appease them if they cant handle alternate views. And the whole "no other thread endures this" is just rubbish aswell.

You miss the point.

Anyone can post about a manager's ability, or lack of it, on any thread. I praised Allardyce on the Everton thread. Some disagreed.

What upset the Everton fans is post after post saying they were stupid and disloyal. And that wouldn't last 5 minutes on another superthread.

Liamalone

Arsenal

Cheers Conor, you see it straight, I like you x

deaddonkey15

Everton

Deleted User wrote: »

You miss the point.

Anyone can post about a manager's ability, or lack of it, on any thread. I praised Allardyce on the Everton thread. Some disagreed.

What upset the Everton fans is post after post saying they were stupid and disloyal. And that wouldn't last 5 minutes on another superthread.

You'd be surprised what gets let go on some of the other superthreads.

greenspurs

Anyway .....
What a sh1te cup final ...........

GavRedKing

Liverpool

greenspurs wrote: »

Anyway .....
What a sh1te cup final ...........

Understatement of the year, it was a dire final, whoever scored first were likely to hold on for a the 1-0 win.

rob316

Great appointment that Pellegrini is for West Ham, you do wonder is he been given a decent transfer budget as the current squad is ****.

BullBlackNova

Could be a great appointment. Always thought Pellegrini was underrated by many fans of English football despite having won the title with City.

A lot of work to do at West Ham though. Off the top of my head, I can think of 3/4 players that need to be moved on in Zabaleta, Evra, Collins, Carroll, etc. Could make an argument for quite a few more if you drilled down through the squad too, I'd say.

Wonder if this gives Joe Hart an option there again, though? West Ham will surely be in the market for a 'keeper this summer and Pellegrini knows him from their time together at City. I think there's quite a few better options out there but I'd say it definitely improves his chances.

Will need to spend big, though. A goalkeeper, at least one full-back, a centre-back and a centre-mid. I'd say a winger and a striker too, even more if they lose someone like Lanzini or Arnautovic.

Is Joao Mario there next season too or is he headed back to Inter?

LuckyLloyd

Clear upgrade from Moyes anyway.

Loafing Oaf

- moustache =

ShamoBuc

greenspurs wrote: »

Anyway .....
What a sh1te cup final ...........

Sure was, thought that Chelsea would win and they they did. United really couldn't break them down and of course Mourinho gives out about them being a long ball team blah blah blah.
He always tries to say something controversial to get away from how utter tripe his team were.

Harry Palmr

Anyone think Chelsea football club are in a spot of bother.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/21/is-abramovich-paying-price-for-being-too-close-to-putin

There is a compelling, two-word explanation for why Roman Abramovich is apparently having difficulties renewing his British visa: Vladimir Putin.

According to reports from Moscow, Abramovich was unable to watch his Chelsea team’s 1-0 victory over Manchester United in Saturday’s FA Cup final at Wembley because his investor’s visa expired last month. His private Boeing jet has not been back to the UK since 1 April.

It is uncertain whether the oligarch’s visa woes are temporary and soon to be resolved, or something more permanent akin to a de facto ban. Abramovich has declined to comment. His representatives have said merely, and tactfully, that the process is taking a little longer than usual.

Either way, the delay appears to be the result of a new, tougher stance against Russian nationals by the British authorities in the wake of the attempted murder in March of the Russian former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury. Relations between London and Moscow are once again in the deep freeze.

The government signalled it was reviewing tier 1 investor visas, given to nearly 700 wealthy Russians between 2008 and 2015. Abramovich is one of them. Other oligarchs – some famous names, some lesser known mid-ranking businessmen – will be wondering if they too can expect visa trouble.