General Premier League Thread - 2017/2018

emmetkenny

Everton

emmetkenny wrote: »

As did United with the Young goal, as did Liverpool last night (Ming could have had a red).

All teams get a bit of luck but usually a few calls will go against you as well. Just as fans we usually remember the ones we didn't get rather than the ones we do!!

Ya I totally agree just don't see any problem with it being pointed out

Crash Bang Wall

GavRedKing wrote: »

I never said underserved FFS :rolleyes:

I said lucky, City were lucky that Kompany didnt get sent off after 3 mins of the Leicester game, when he should have.

They were lucky to beat Huddersfield with a deflected goal and a 96th minute winner last night, while I agree it was deserved, is a very lucky outcome.

Theres nobody saying City dont deserve to be romping away with the league, the start they made is outstanding and they'll likely set new records this year, however, the last 3 results, they have had a bit of good fortune.

Nights like last night is when you think, thats the result of champions and its not bitter, I've come to terms with Chelsea not defending the title, its about finishing 2nd - 4th for us now.

It seems they were luck in the goals they got, and the breaks they got.

If a team has 70% possession, with 10 shots on target, all of which you would expect a keeper to save, then do they deserve the win, or does the "weaker" team deserve a point for restricting the big team to snap shots and half chances. I would argue that that the weaker team deserves a point

GavRedKing

Liverpool

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

It seems they were luck in the goals they got, and the breaks they got.

If a team has 70% possession, with 10 shots on target, all of which you would expect a keeper to save, then do they deserve the win, or does the "weaker" team deserve a point for restricting the big team to snap shots and half chances. I would argue that that the weaker team deserves a point

Sometimes you earn your luck too and theyve dominated the games they got their bit of luck in.

As I said, another day they drop points in those 3 games and the league is wide open again.

I wouldnt begrudge them their lead though, from August until late October they were on fire, theyve slowed down with congestion of fixtures but theyre still winning ugly which is the cliched sign of champions.

JPA

GavRedKing wrote: »

Sometimes you earn your luck too and theyve dominated the games they got their bit of luck in.

As I said, another day they drop points in those 3 games and the league is wide open again.

I wouldnt begrudge them their lead though, from August until late October they were on fire, theyve slowed down with congestion of fixtures but theyre still winning ugly which is the cliched sign of champions.

They're not winning ugly at all, they are still completely dominating in the last 2 games. Winning ugly would suggest they are lumping it long, but they never change their style. It's only the last 2 games that have even been tight.

AdamD

Everton

If you have more of the ball, are around the opposition's box more and take more shots I imagine you might get slightly more 'luck'.

GavRedKing

Liverpool

JPA wrote: »

They're not winning ugly at all, they are still completely dominating in the last 2 games. Winning ugly would suggest they are lumping it long, but they never change their style. It's only the last 2 games that have even been tight.

Ugly is probably the wrong word, grinding out a result is more apt.

Its still impressive to win 12 games on the spin.

If they beat West Ham and they will, easily, they'll have matched Chelseas record last year, which was only about 5 or 6 games into the run at this stage but to have 12 racked up already is insane.

They can beat the record for most consecutive wins against Utd and I wouldnt bet against them doing it. Utd will have to beat a top 6 rival and if they can do it against City and close the gap too, thats a bonus for them but theyve Arsenal and City back to back, no easy feat.

Everton

https://twitter.com/telegraphducker/status/936158122284068865

Jayop

Everton

Quite lucky not to have been sent to the stands there was Pep. Seems likely he'll also be lucky in getting away with that nonsense at the end of the game pushing and shoving while verbally assaulting a player.

suffering golfer

Liverpool

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/telegraphducker/status/936158122284068865

Lol. Totally different situations....

Trigger

Liverpool

Jayop wrote: »

Quite lucky not to have been sent to the stands there was Pep. Seems likely he'll also be lucky in getting away with that nonsense at the end of the game pushing and shoving while verbally assaulting a player.

Supposedly he was telling Redmond he was a good player so he should be playing football instead of being defensive in fairness It doesn’t look like there is anything in it at all.

Trigger

Liverpool

suffering golfer wrote: »

Lol. Totally different situations....

Not really, it doesn’t matter if you are celebrating or not, the manager isn’t allowed on the pitch while the game is going on.. that included when a goal has been scored.

Jayop

Everton

suffering golfer wrote: »

Lol. Totally different situations....

What about screaming maniacally into a players face while shoving him?

Skylinehead

astradave wrote: »

Not really, it doesn’t matter if you are celebrating or not, the manager isn’t allowed on the pitch while the game is going on.. that included when a goal has been scored.

Of course it matters. From memory, didn't Mourinho step onto the pitch while the ball was very close to him, in play? That and stepping on when the ball is completely dead from a goal are worlds apart.

FatherTed

Skylinehead wrote: »

Of course it matters. From memory, didn't Mourinho step onto the pitch while the ball was very close to him, in play? That and stepping on when the ball is completely dead from a goal are worlds apart.

So it's ok then that coaches come onto the field whenever they want? Just make sure the ball isn't near you. The rule is they are not allowed to encroach onto the field at any time unless to treat an injured player.

Also, I agreed with Jayop, coming onto the field and shoving a player rather violently should mean a ban, it doesn't matter if it's half time or not as half time is part of the game. Mourinho got a ban for kicking a water bottle FFS.

Trigger

Liverpool

Skylinehead wrote: »

Of course it matters. From memory, didn't Mourinho step onto the pitch while the ball was very close to him, in play? That and stepping on when the ball is completely dead from a goal are worlds apart.

The rule is they are not allowed encroach.. that’s my point.. that’s the very thing that is wrong with the officiating in the game.. the refs are allowing one rule for some and other rules for others.. and that’s not just to do with Jose and Pep..

I couldn’t give a shîte if It was Pep or my grandmother, the rule should be across the board or should be taken from the rulebook

citytillidie

Aww boohoo Jose got banned for being on the field and Pep did not. There are plenty of examples of managers coming onto the pitch when their team has scored a late winner and nothing happening. There is not many examples of other managers stepping onto the pitch when a player is close by and breaking on his team that could be seen as interfering with play.

Skylinehead

astradave wrote: »

The rule is they are not allowed encroach.. that’s my point.. that’s the very thing that is wrong with the officiating in the game.. the refs are allowing one rule for some and other rules for others.. and that’s not just to do with Jose and Pep..

I couldn’t give a shîte if It was Pep or my grandmother, the rule should be across the board or should be taken from the rulebook

And my point is that context always influences severity. Like every walk of life.

Skylinehead

Everton

Skylinehead wrote: »

And my point is that context always influences severity. Like every walk of life.

Nope. It's a written rule. They are there to be followed to the letter of the law.
That's how officiating is supposed to work.

Trigger

Liverpool

Skylinehead wrote: »

And my point is that context always influences severity. Like every walk of life.

The rule is written in black and white, the rules are made to be adhered to.. my point isn’t really about this particular rule but the rules of the game in general when the officials fail to interpret them correctly and that leads to conflicts within the game itself.

Just look at the Mignolet and Kompany yellow cards.. they both should have been Red cards but yellows were issued..

The Kompany one I have no doubt it was because the Ref didn’t want to “ruin the game” by issuing a red.. but he ruined that game for Leicester by not

Skylinehead

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Nope. It's a written rule. They are there to be followed to the letter of the law.
That's how officiating is supposed to work.

What exactly is the rule and punishment? If they're both written down in the laws of the game as "manager on pitch must be sent off" then you're right. Are they?

Skylinehead

Everton

Skylinehead wrote: »

What exactly is the rule and punishment? If they're both written down in the laws of the game as "manager on pitch must be sent off" then you're right. Are they?

It's already been provided to you in this thread. And a simple google will get it for you.

Skylinehead

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's already been provided to you in this thread. And a simple google will get it for you.

Where was it provided? And look Mick you said this, not me:

It's a written rule. They are there to be followed to the letter of the law.

What written rule? If you make an argument don't expect me to find your sources. Basic debating convention that.

Turtyturd

If the rule is written in black and white it should be adhered to. Unfortunately when you allow those who apply the rules a bit of agency it will lead to annoying inconsistencies, bias, and them putting their own context on the incident.

With Mourinho’s history he’ll always get the brunt of it.

Skylinehead

Everton

Skylinehead wrote: »

Where was it provided? And look Mick you said this, not me:



What written rule? If you make an argument don't expect me to find your sources. Basic debating convention that.

Maybe I couldn't be arsed finding it for an anonymous poster perhaps?
Basic not giving a **** that.

Actually sure why not, might aswell entertain you and see you try worm out of this.

Managers may not cross the line during play, which restricts them from approaching the pitch. In 1999, FIFA put the fourth official in charge of enforcing this rule, although substitutes may warm up along the side of the pitch.

Turtyturd

Everton

Turtyturd wrote: »

If the rule is written in black and white it should be adhered to. Unfortunately when you allow those who apply the rules a bit of agency it will lead to annoying inconsistencies, bias, and them putting their own context on the incident.

With Mourinho’s history he’ll always get the brunt of it.

So that's the point that's been made already here multiple times. The officiating is the issue.

Skylinehead

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Maybe I couldn't be arsed finding it for an anonymous poster perhaps?
Basic not giving a **** that.

Actually sure why not, might aswell entertain you and see you try worm out of this.

The technical area is marked by a white line, varying in size but always "1m (1yd) on either side of the designated seated area and extend[ing] forward up to a distance of 1m (1yd) from the touch line", according to the Laws of the Game.[1]

Managers may not cross the line during play, which restricts them from approaching the pitch. In 1999, FIFA put the fourth official in charge of enforcing this rule, although substitutes may warm up along the side of the pitch.[1]

Finally, thank you. So now (despite your moaning about having to back up an argument, which I find odd) we get to the crux of the matter - it does not mention a standardised punishment. Meaning it's at the refs discretion no?

Skylinehead

Everton

Skylinehead wrote: »

Finally, thank you. So now (despite your moaning about having to back up an argument, which I find odd) we get to the crux of the matter - it does not mention a standardised punishment. Meaning it's at the refs discretion no?

Not sure how you are not getting this. It's a written rule and it's meant to be followed.
If the ref or specifically the 4th official doesn't apply the letter of the law then that's what people are complaining about.

Trigger

Liverpool

Here is the official wording from the 2017 manual:

The technical area relates to matches played in stadiums with a designated seated area for team officials and substitutes as outlined below:
9. The technical area
• the technical area should only extend 1 m (1 yd) on either side of the designated seated area and up to a distance of 1 m (1 yd) from the touchline
• markings should be used to define the area
• the number of persons permitted to occupy the technical area is defined by
the competition rules
• the occupants of the technical area:
• are identified before the start of the match in accordance with the competition rules
• must behave in a responsible manner
• must remain within its confines except in special circumstances, e.g.
a physiotherapist/doctor entering the field of play, with the referee’s permission, to assess an injured player
• only one person at a time is authorised to convey tactical instructions from the technical area

Manual here for anyone who wishes to have a look

https://football-technology.fifa.com/media/1245/lotg_17_18_en.pdf

Skylinehead

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not sure how you are not getting this. It's a written rule and it's meant to be followed.
If the ref or specifically the 4th official doesn't apply the letter of the law then that's what people are complaining about.

But there's a lot of ambiguity as to what the punishment is. It could be being sent off (Mourinho) or it could be a warning (Guardiola) depending on context (severity of the encroachment). As far as I can tell, the letter of the law is being followed.

super_furry

Liverpool

Whatever about stepping on the pitch, Guardiola should be absolutely hammered for the way he wrapped his arm around the neck of and screamed into the face of Nathan Redmond after the match. Pure scumbag behaviour to go after a player like that because he didn't play the kind of football that would make it easier for your side to win.

The FA have to come down on him.

Skylinehead

super_furry wrote: »

Whatever about stepping on the pitch, Guardiola should be absolutely hammered for the way he wrapped his arm around the neck of and screamed into the face of Nathan Redmond. Pure scumbag behaviour to go after a player like that because he didn't play the kind of football that would make it easier for your side to win.

Now that was utterly bizarre. Redmond took it well, I don't think I would have.

citytillidie

super_furry wrote: »

Whatever about stepping on the pitch, Guardiola should be absolutely hammered for the way he wrapped his arm around the neck of and screamed into the face of Nathan Redmond after the match. Pure scumbag behaviour to go after a player like that because he didn't play the kind of football that would make it easier for your side to win.

The FA have to come down on him.

Sure it is ok to grab players around the next the FA have set that precedent from last season when a certain player was not punished for doing it

Everton

Sky are blaming a book for spurs poor form :P

Jayop

Everton

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Sky are blaming a book for spurs poor form :P

First Wembley, now a book.

sligeach

Sam Allardyce has been appointed Everton manager for the next 18 months, that's fairly underwhelming.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42186164

ERG89

M!Ck^ wrote:

Sky are blaming a book for spurs poor form

Well it is a book by Balague who has a reverse midas touch

pjohnson

citytillidie wrote: »

Sure it is ok to grab players around the next the FA have set that precedent from last season when a certain player was not punished for doing it

Fair Point

Iused2likebusts

Liverpool

Pep is doing a great job. He has come up with a way to get 5 key attacking players into his team and remain solid defensively. He was left a squad of talented attacking players and an ageing back line. He sorted out the defence over the summer and has them now playing lovely attacking football. Easier to do all that when you can offer the type of money he can of course. But the way he sets up his team to play is great.The improvement in sterling is unreal.

Rekop dog

Spurs

I'm sure he's helped Sterling but some of the praise Pep is getting for his improved form is over the top. Sterling was always going to get stronger, smarter and more consistent as he grew into adulthood.

They really ought to be doing what they're doing for the money they've spent.

SEPT 23 1989

Liverpool

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm sure he's helped Sterling but some of the praise Pep is getting for his improved form is over the top. Sterling was always going to get stronger, smarter and more consistent as he grew into adulthood.

They really ought to be doing what they're doing for the money they've spent.

What about Fabian Delphs improvement under Pep?

irishman86

Everton

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

What about Fabian Delphs improvement under Pep?

The same player that was brilliant before moving to City :rolleyes:
Just because Pep picks him doesnt mean hes improved him

~Rebel~

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm sure he's helped Sterling but some of the praise Pep is getting for his improved form is over the top. Sterling was always going to get stronger, smarter and more consistent as he grew into adulthood.

They really ought to be doing what they're doing for the money they've spent.

To an extent, but if you look at the goals Sterling is scoring, they're coming from areas he just wasn't even in before. All his rubbish edge of the box scuffed shots are largely gone, and instead he's become a tap-in merchant, arriving late. A lot of that comes down to Pep I think.

Even moments like this (which im sure we've all seen by now), where he shows Sterling a very specific movement, which he scores from a few days later;
https://twitter.com/Mindfootballnes/status/933104929564250112

suffering golfer

Liverpool

Jayop wrote: »

What about screaming maniacally into a players face while shoving him?

According to the player himself, pep was actually very complementary to him.

UrbanFret

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm sure he's helped Sterling but some of the praise Pep is getting for his improved form is over the top. Sterling was always going to get stronger, smarter and more consistent as he grew into adulthood.

They really ought to be doing what they're doing for the money they've spent.

Money,Money,Blah,Blah,Blah. You would think every other team gets their players for nothing or brought them all through the youth system. City have busted the cosy cartel in English football, sure it cost a lot of money but it's been well worth it. Unless you think the team from stretford winning nearly all the time was entertaining.;)

suffering golfer

Liverpool

super_furry wrote: »

Whatever about stepping on the pitch, Guardiola should be absolutely hammered for the way he wrapped his arm around the neck of and screamed into the face of Nathan Redmond after the match. Pure scumbag behaviour to go after a player like that because he didn't play the kind of football that would make it easier for your side to win.

The FA have to come down on him.

According to Redmond himself, Pep was actually quite complimentary to him. Yep, that is terrible scumbag behaviour by Pep...

ERG89

suffering golfer wrote:

According to the player himself, pep was actually very complementary to him.

Pep would only give his honest opinion of him if he lost so I'd believe that.

Rekop dog

Spurs

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

What about Fabian Delphs improvement under Pep?

He was very good at Villa, I'm not sure his performance level has eclipsed that of late, pretty hard to assess when the standard of player around him at City is so superior.

I'm not bashing Pep here, he's clearly an elite manager but think the weight of praise being leveled at him as opposed to the ridiculously talented squad at his disposal is disproportionate, as it's arguably been throughout his career.

And no sign of AndersonisGod for over 3 months. And don't think he has simply rereged.

I know it's silly and he was irritating, but when a poster just disappears sometimes you wonder what might have happened...

Lukker-

Deleted User wrote: »

And no sign of AndersonisGod for over 3 months. And don't think he has simply rereged.

I know it's silly and he was irritating, but when a poster just disappears sometimes you wonder what might have happened...

I reckon he got sick of the abuse

Trigger

Liverpool

Lukker- wrote: »

I reckon he got sick of the abuse

Think his access was taken away, that’s my understanding anyways...

Moving on, there is some nice games going on tomorrow, Chelsea v Newcastle, Watford v Spurs and United v Arsenal