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Removal of half day

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13

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    #62
    5rtytry56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56


    Cork Lass wrote: »
    . This persons lack of knowledge is worrisome considering the position they hold.
    and lack of common sense.


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    #63
    Cork Lass
    Registered Users Posts: 6,858 ✭✭✭Cork Lass


    Graham wrote: »
    If something comes to light that could be considered a danger to the employees or a risk to the organisation of course it could be taken away.

    Maybe you could argue the case if it were a half days holiday but good luck trying to convince someone that an afternoon on the lash at work is somehow protected.

    I agree that it could but not without discussion which would most likely involve the union. However, the op sounds like a Line Manager and would not have the authority to take this away. It's a sad state of affairs if our Civil Servants are being paid to get plastered. The op should really be dealing with this issue. Is it any wonder the Civil Service/Public Service gets such a bad name.


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    #64
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Civil Service wrote: »
    Taking action for the specific offence would create a huge amount of problem for me, both from my team and management.

    Well, you can't do anything then. Take it on the chin and move on.


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    #65
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    pilly wrote: »
    You're talking about a civil service here though that still get time off to "cash cheques" on a Friday!! Different kettle of fish in Ireland. Drinking is not frowned upon as much as in the UK.

    I must work in a different Civil Service or an alternative dimension. I've been in my role as a CO for the past 2 years and never got time off to cash a cheque.


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    #66
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I must work in a different Civil Service or an alternative dimension. I've been in my role as a CO for the past 2 years and never got time off to cash a cheque.

    The time off is not "to cash a cheque", that's why it's in inverted commas.

    An extra hour off was given way back when so that employees could cash cheques and that was never taken away.

    Which I'm sure you know anyway.


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    #67
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I must work in a different Civil Service or an alternative dimension. I've been in my role as a CO for the past 2 years and never got time off to cash a cheque.

    Yeah the bank time was taken off civil servants years ago.


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    #68
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    pilly wrote: »
    The time off is not "to cash a cheque", that's why it's in inverted commas.

    An extra hour off was given way back when so that employees could cash cheques and that was never taken away.

    Which I'm sure you know anyway.

    pilly you are wrong, it was 30 minutes given per week and that was removed years ago from all civil servants.


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    #69
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Cork Lass wrote: »
    I agree that it could but not without discussion which would most likely involve the union. However, the op sounds like a Line Manager and would not have the authority to take this away. It's a sad state of affairs if our Civil Servants are being paid to get plastered. The op should really be dealing with this issue. Is it any wonder the Civil Service/Public Service gets such a bad name.

    I doubt this 'privilege' has ever been officially sanctioned. My guess is it started as a 'great work on the stock-take lads here's a few drinks' and now it's come to be expected.

    I also doubt there's any union in the land daft enough to stick it's head up in the current environment and argue for it's public sector members beer-time.


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    #70
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    pilly wrote: »
    The time off is not "to cash a cheque", that's why it's in inverted commas.

    An extra hour off was given way back when so that employees could cash cheques and that was never taken away.

    Which I'm sure you know anyway.

    How would I know?? I work my hours and that is it. I get no hours off or any extra time at all off. Sure there's even married women working here now, imagine that.


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    #71
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    pilly you are wrong, it was 30 minutes given per week and that was removed years ago from all civil servants.

    So, how many hours a week does a civil servant work now?


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    #72
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    pilly wrote: »
    So, how many hours a week does a civil servant work now?

    They actually took away the 30 minutes bank time per week and upped their working day by 30 minutes per day.


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    #73
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    They actually took away the 30 minutes bank time per week and upped their working day by 30 minutes per day.

    Doesn't answer the question?


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    #74
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    pilly wrote: »
    Doesn't answer the question?

    Well if you knew what hours they were working before hand like youve implied already then add 30 minutes to it.


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    #75
    ct5amr2ig1nfhp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ct5amr2ig1nfhp


    In reality, most managers wouldn't know the meaning of Custom and Practice.

    I do agree that punishing the team for a transgression of one team member is not in the best interests of the team.
    Cork Lass wrote: »
    Perhaps that may be the case but surely anyone would know that you simply cannot punish a whole team for the behaviour of one individual. That's pretty basic knowledge. Also a manager should be aware of Custom and Practice and that they cannot sImply decide to take away a half day. This persons lack of knowledge is worrisome considering the position they hold.


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    #76
    drake70
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭drake70


    pilly wrote: »
    Doesn't answer the question?

    Most civil servants will work forty three and a quarter hours gross per week, i.e. inclusive of lunch breaks.

    Source and further information:
    http://www.per.gov.ie/en/circulars-11-and-12-of-2013-working-hours-and-worksharing-arrangements/


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    #77
    Kirk Van Houten
    Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭Kirk Van Houten


    Can the OP please confirm the industry he/she is in.


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    #78
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    pilly wrote: »
    So, how many hours a week does a civil servant work now?
    drake70 wrote: »
    Most civil servants will work forty three and a quarter hours gross per week, i.e. inclusive of lunch breaks.
    [/url]

    It looks like 37 hours when you exclude lunch breaks.


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    #79
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    The obvious answer to the op is to discipline the worker for causing a scene rather than getting drunk on the site.

    Write him up and issue a written warning and going forward you can stop all drinking on site.


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    #80
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Civil Service wrote: »
    If I make it official, he gets sacked. It's not an breach that I can give an official warning for

    So what if he gets sacked? Whats the issue with that? Is he your son or something?


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    #81
    Love2love
    Registered Users Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭Love2love


    As said before if the custom has been established, it would be a hard road to take it away.

    To be honest though, I'm surprised that Senior Management are allowing staff to drink on the premises from a vicarious liability point of view. The combo culture in this country is growing out of control.


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    #82
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Love2love wrote:
    To be honest though, I'm surprised that Senior Management are allowing staff to drink on the premises from a vicarious liability point of view. The combo culture in this country is growing out of control.

    Agreed, it's a court case waiting to happen.


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    #83
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Graham wrote: »
    It looks like 37 hours when you exclude lunch breaks.
    7 hours and 24 minutes worked exclusive of lunch which is a minumum of 30 minutes.

    Just stop the drinking in the portacabin and let them blame their collegue for the loss.


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    #84
    jcd5971
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    silent_spark wrote:
    You're protecting a member of staff who is guilty of gross misconduct, while removing privileges from staff who had nothing to do with it? Are you seriously considering this? This is a terrible idea, the potential impact on the morale of the other staff is bad enough, but why are you circumventing your workplace's disciplinary rules by not reporting this person? You're risking your own position on top of everything.

    No need for me to add anything further this post=good advice


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    #85
    jcd5971
    Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    Civil service wrote:
    Without elaborating too much, taking action was pretty much out of the question. It would have made my life pretty difficult, and certainly wouldn't have been a course of action that my management would have been too happy with, irrespective of it being policy.

    Civil service wrote:
    A can of worms really, bizarre as it sounds.

    Approach someone in your command chain, i.e. your boss/manager you report to and ask for advice off the record.


    I know many times over the years as a manager, I have gotten advice from a few different members of my cohort before making a decision.

    You don't necessarily need to make a formal complaint in order to let your bosses know.


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    #86
    bill66
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭bill66


    pilly wrote: »
    So, how many hours a week does a civil servant work now?

    A standard day is 7 hours 24minutes, not including lunch break. It was previously 6 hours 57 minutes. Bank time, which was only available to pre 2003 civil servants has been abolished. It was never removed from the working week. This information is freely available so your misunderstanding is hard to understand.


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    #87
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,211 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Message for OP.

    Stop the practice of drinking at work on work time. It's a sackable offence for ALL concerned.

    If management knew that workers were drinking on site during work hours then they are in serious trouble as well.

    You say you know the person was drinking on site and they were drunk but unless you can PROVE this then the individual will escape censure. Have you got people to come forward to say this person was drinking? Do you have them on CCTV? And when others see that they're going to be punished for the sins of others then I'd be surprised if anyone backed you up.

    Even if the person drinking gets caught they could invoke the alcohol and drug policy in the CS and, as the CS deems alcohol abuse as a medical issue, then they could conceivably walk away from this if seen to tackle their alcohol "problem".

    By turning a blind eye to what you knew was going on you're now in the firing line. You have a duty of care to your employees, not just the person drinking but ALL employees.

    If I was in your position I'd have a quiet off the record word with the individual and ask them what happened and why? I'd listen to what they said but there's very little you can do apart from that but just to ensure that no more drinking takes place on work time at work.

    By the way, if I was you and this story is true, I'd be deleting this thread before anyone else sees it. It's going to end worse for you then anyone else.


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    #88
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Don't punish the entire team - bad choice and will only put you in a difficult spot with the others.

    You can't give this lad an official warning for being drunk, but you can sit him down for a chat and make it clear that you've heard a "rumour", which if in any way true would be an instantly sack-able offence.
    You don't have any evidence at this time to follow up on, but you hope there wont be any more "rumours" of this nature in future as they are taken very seriously.


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    #89
    largepants
    Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭largepants


    bill66 wrote: »
    A standard day is 7 hours 24minutes, not including lunch break. It was previously 6 hours 57 minutes. Bank time, which was only available to pre 2003 civil servants has been abolished. It was never removed from the working week. This information is freely available so your misunderstanding is hard to understand.

    Oh he understands ok but he chooses to believe what Mick down the pub tells him.

    As you stated this information is freely available. Same hours as someone working 9-5.30 with an hour for lunch.


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    While the getting hammered on site is not on I do find the shock at people drinking onsite quite funny. It's very common to have a stocked beer fridge in the office in many countries outside of Ireland and I often get beer and wine provided to me in meeting rooms etc when attending meetings in companies other European counties.

    We used to have a spirits session in a meeting room at work every once in a while too (plenty of senior people in the company involved) was great craic trying all sorts of spirits people would bring in and getting nicely merry. While this was never officially allowed, drinking in the office wasn't banned either but then someone over did it on wine at an official event and they decided to ban drinking in the building so we had to curtail our little events and eventually they died out which was a pity.


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    #91
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    That is true - my last staff party was onsite and we all got wrecked.


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