Carabao Cup (League Cup)

Liamalone

A second for Leicester, Slimani with a corker

What a goal!

Pick it out!

niallo27

Disappointing but hard to pretend it matters that much. It's the second side out there.

GavRedKing

M!Ck^ wrote: »

What a goal!

Pick it out!

I agree with ya from earlier, pressure will be on Klopp IMO if they dont turn this around.

He wont be sacked in the short term, that would be stupid but questions have to be seriously asked about why he didnt sign a CB after Van Djiks deal was dead in the water.

They can defend to save their lives.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Disappointing but hard to pretend it matters that much. It's the second side out there.

It doesn't matter that your team is out of a competition you probably had the only chance of winning? Maybe the FA Cup too at the most.

That defence has to worry you.

Jayop

niallo27 wrote: »

Disappointing but hard to pretend it matters that much. It's the second side out there.

T'is the 4th tier competition that you enter at the start of the year and I'd rather go out in the first round than the semi-final, but still it's a piece of silverware.

niallo27

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It doesn't matter that your team is out of a competition you probably had the only chance of winning? Maybe the FA Cup too at the most.

That defence has to worry you.

No not really I couldn't care less about the league cup. Unless you get to a semi final or final not many teams do. Oh yes the defence terrifies me.

irishman86

I know hes conceded twice, but Danny Ward continues to impress me
I only seen him a few times at Aberdeen but last season he looked good with Huddersfield, you have to presume he could get his chance soon

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

I agree with ya from earlier, pressure will be on Klopp IMO if they dont turn this around.

He wont be sacked in the short term, that would be stupid but questions have to be seriously asked about why he didnt sign a CB after Van Djiks deal was dead in the water.

They can defend to save their lives.

It's grand. I got shot down earlier because I dislike Liverpool. But was honestly trying to share a neutral opinion on the situation.

This really is a dreadful result in a very poor start to the season.

And most of it is because of consistent errors in defence and the inability to organise his defence for set pieces.

Fine if you are happy with scraping champions league and winning nothing every year but from talking to close friends who are Liverpool fans they expect more are are not happy the same issues have not been addressed.

Can't keep using the excuse that he's a new manager.

Rayne Wooney

Klopp will be sacked in the next 12ish months imo

Jayop

TBH I'd have much preferred had they won this and lost at the weekend.

irishman86

niallo27 wrote: »

No not really I couldn't care less about the league cup. Unless you get to a semi final or final not many teams do. Oh yes the defence terrifies me.

Have to agree with you, looking at the teams both teams played at this stage the team doesnt care if they go out
Semis is when it gets interesting maybe qf at a stretch

Jayop

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Klopp will be sacked in the next 12ish months imo

I honestly can't see it. He's still hero worshiped on the likes of RAWK and he's the biggest name to go there for a long time. Who do they get if they sack him? The fans demand a certain style of play and what top manager would be available that can do that?

niallo27

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's grand. I got shot down earlier because I dislike Liverpool. But was honestly trying to share a neutral opinion on the situation.

This really is a dreadful result in a very poor start to the season.

And most of it is because of consistent errors in defence and the inability to organise his defence for set pieces.

Fine if you are happy with scraping champions league and winning nothing every year but from talking to close friends who are Liverpool fans they expect more are are not happy the same issues have not been addressed.

Can't keep using the excuse that he's a new manager.

They are ahead or arsenal same points as spurs and two behind Chelsea. It hasn't been a great start but it hasn't been that bad. They overcome a tough qualifier as well.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Klopp will be sacked in the next 12ish months imo

yeah. I think the downward spiral has started, not many managers last past 3 years with nothing to show for money spent.

He's not gone as close to the challenge as Rodgers did, and they won't be near the league this season either, and it's hard to see that squad improving enough next summer to get near United/City/Chelsea next season.

Unearthly

A shaky start by Leicester but the class shined through in the end from the ex premier league champions

Berserker

niallo27 wrote: »

Disappointing but hard to pretend it matters that much. It's the second side out there.

Really, recall seeing you win it when KK was in charge a few seasons ago and it was celebrated like a major trophy?

Jayop

Comparing him to Rodgers, while fun, is unfair given Rodgers had at his disposal the best player in the league at the time, while Rodgers clearly doesn't have anyone near that level. Sturridge was also banging them in then.

Liamalone

Unearthly wrote: »

A shaky start by Leicester but the class shined through in the end from the ex premier league champions

Second string Leicester side turned up in the second half after sleeping for the first half.

Rayne Wooney

Jayop wrote: »

I honestly can't see it. He's still hero worshiped on the likes of RAWK and he's the biggest name to go there for a long time. Who do they get if they sack him? The fans demand a certain style of play and what top manager would be available that can do that?

No trophies this season and you'll see the cracks appearing

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

They are ahead or arsenal same points as spurs and two behind Chelsea. It hasn't been a great start but it hasn't been that bad. They overcome a tough qualifier as well.

That's fine Niallo but he's escaping the criticism from any critics for what should be considered inept in his organising of a defence or having a plan b when the press isn't working.

Rodgers took alot of stick and I keep hearing the old Suarez excuse but I think it will expire if the same problems continue to persist.

Tbf no credit given to Leicester. Good result and I really like the manager. He's done a fantastic job since he's taken over and I was ok so baffled when Claudio was sacked.
His manner and attitude are also very likeable.

ERG89

irishman86 wrote:

Have to agree with you, looking at the teams both teams played at this stage the team doesnt care if they go out Semis is when it gets interesting maybe qf at a stretch

When Liverpool reached the semis last year the first time we picked a first choice team we got knocked out.
It's been a dreadful start for the season after knocking out Hoffenheim but the game the weekend will be bigger given the recent form (and form in the second half of last season) it's important not to be dropping even more points. Spartak away on Tuesday is going to be tough, on this form anyone is made into a difficult fixture.

Paleblood

You mightn't care about the League Cup but anyone that's played sport, at any level, will know what losing does to a team. Put out a second string if you want, but win the bloody game. Fergie and Wenger done it often enough. Give the young lads a run but back them up with enough muscle to actually win the game and keep confidence in the team.

Jayop

Paleblood wrote: »

You mightn't care about the League Cup but anyone that's played sport, at any level, will know what losing does to a team. Put out a second string if you want, but win the bloody game. Fergie and Wenger done it often enough. Give the young lads a run but back them up with enough muscle to actually win the game and keep confidence in the team.

Surely there was enough first teamers who started to not allow that to be an excuse?

HONKEY TONK

It's like Liverpool Football Club don't actually want a trophy and have brainwashed their fans into accepting it.

Klopp really looked under pressure there.

"I'm sick of conceeding these types of goals!"

Maybe he should consider the coaching??

Paleblood

Jayop wrote: »

Surely there was enough first teamers who started to not allow that to be an excuse?

Of course. They had more than enough.

I had the comment of a previous contributor in mind when I wrote that, and that led me to digress slightly. He suggested it was a second string out there, which is clearly untrue. My point was that even if you are going with a second string there's a right way and a wrong way to do it.

Jayop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Klopp really looked under pressure there.

"I'm sick of conceeding these types of goals!"

Maybe he should consider the coaching??

In fairness, it might have been a bit windy.

pjohnson

If you're not gunna be fighting for the title then whats the point in jacking in a possible trophy. While not the most prestigious its still a trophy.

Jayop

pjohnson wrote: »

If you're not gunna be fighting for the title then whats the point in jacking in a possible trophy. While not the most prestigious its still a trophy.

I don't think they exactly jacked it going by the selection, but I agree with the sentiment. It's not the most prestigious you're right, but it's usually won by the better teams so it's valued enough by them to go for it. Recently been won by United, City, Chelsea.

Rekop dog

Hilarious the amount of posters here that go OTT on short term form.

Klopp had them above Arsenal and United in his first full season last year, two teams who outspent them, particularly the latter. And they played significantly better football than both.

Season is only a handful of games old, I'd be more inclined to judge his credentials on a complete season than 7% of the current season.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

Managers and clubs/players clearly value the league cup a bit higher than fans do.

Given the list of recent winners.

A trophy is a trophy, Mourinho won the two "mickey mouse" tournaments last season, but it was two trophies all the same.

Winning trophies is a culture, target the ones you can realistically win and those small steps are the building blocks of success.

niallo27

Addison Weak Statistician wrote: »

Managers and clubs/players clearly value the league cup a bit higher than fans do.

Given the list of recent winners.

A trophy is a trophy, Mourinho won the two "mickey mouse" tournaments last season, but it was two trophies all the same.

Winning trophies is a culture, target the ones you can realistically win and those small steps are the building blocks of success.

I agree with the sentiment but every manager in the premier league will field a weakened team these two nights so you can't really use it as something to knock klopp on.

Jayop

You'd honestly think Liverpool were some paupers of football the way they go on about how much United spend all the time over and over. The little plucky underdog from the Mersey. FFS, the 8th highest spend in Europe in the last few years.

Also, whether you play better football is entirely debatable. Sure you go out and attack all the time but tbh there's nothing beautiful about getting beaten 2-0 by the Leicester reserve team while having a load of shots.

Liverpool always pad their attacking stats under Klopp anyway. Maybe it's time to realise that the reason you have massive possession stats in most games is because ceding possession to you has been proven to be an effective tactic because your manager doesn't know how to coach a defense. Teams are prepared to let you have the ball and allow you to pad your goal attempt stats by 10 per game with nothing shots from outside the box.

But yeah, it's samba football that we're all terrified of.

Jayop

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment but every manager in the premier league will field a weakened team these two nights so you can't really use it as something to knock klopp on.

You can't kcock him for playing a few lesser names, but you can knock him for going out and getting beat by a Leicester team that was doing the same. If United play a team full of kids tomorrow and lose you can be sure I'll be going mad about it.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment but every manager in the premier league will field a weakened team these two nights so you can't really use it as something to knock klopp on.

yeah, including the manager who was managing Premier League Leicester City.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have played a weakened team, but he should have assembled a squad capable of winning that match, even in a weakened state.

It's extremely damning that Leicester's "second string" beats Liverpool's.

There is zero depth to an already threadbare squad, and that Liverpool side is going to struggle to get 4th this season.

And there'll be no more excuses.

niallo27

Jayop wrote: »

You'd honestly think Liverpool were some paupers of football the way they go on about how much United spend all the time over and over. The little plucky underdog from the Mersey. FFS, the 8th highest spend in Europe in the last few years.

Also, whether you play better football is entirely debatable. Sure you go out and attack all the time but tbh there's nothing beautiful about getting beaten 2-0 by the Leicester reserve team while having a load of shots.

Liverpool always pad their attacking stats under Klopp anyway. Maybe it's time to realise that the reason you have massive possession stats in most games is because ceding possession to you has been proven to be an effective tactic because your manager doesn't know how to coach a defense. Teams are prepared to let you have the ball and allow you to pad your goal attempt stats by 10 per game with nothing shots from outside the box.

But yeah, it's samba football that we're all terrified of.

It's effective and gets results though as last year's league positions show. You might wait more than 5 games to write him off this year. Years of supporting utd has you spoiled into expecting instant success.

Jayop

niallo27 wrote: »

It's effective and gets results though as last year's league positions show. You might wait more than 5 games to write him off this year. Years of supporting utd has you spoiled into expecting instant success.

Not writing him or the team off at all. I was replying to Rekop's post. Also, it's effectiveness is really not that clear. He's got a win percentage for Liverpool lower than Rodgers, Evans, Houllier and Benitez. 4 of the 8 managers in the premier league era. I you think that's effective then good for you.

I waited a long time as a young United fan for success so expecting it instantly is not my style. I also backed our last two managers for a lot longer than the majority of fans.
I fully expect you to compete for top 4, in fact I expect you to get it and Klopp to strengthen next year. But he does have his faults, and pointing to big possession stats of shots on goal in games you lose is completely meaningless when like I said, teams cede possession to you as a tactic and you shoot over and over from stupid positions.

rgace

Jayop wrote: »

when like I said, teams cede possession to you as a tactic and you shoot over and over from stupid positions.

Well it could also be argued that teams are afraid to keep possession against Liverpools pressing, at the moment Liverpool are not attacking/finishing as well as they can but if they win their next couple the crisis is over.

Jayop

rgace wrote: »

Well it could also be argued that teams are afraid to keep possession against Liverpools pressing, at the moment Liverpool are not attacking/finishing as well as they can but if they win their next couple the crisis is over.

What does it matter what way you want to put it when the end result is the same as what I said and that is that Liverpool's possession stats in most games are padded because the opposition manager know the best way to play against them is to cede possession. Be that because the opposition is afraid of being caught by the press or because they themselves feel that Liverpool struggle to break them down and they can pinch a win on the break. The fact remains that the reason you have 65% or more possession in games is the choice of the other manager.

rgace

It doesnt really matter but it was more of a reply to your samba football comment earlier.

Teams will play like that against Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea etc and if those bigger teams are good enough they will break them down, I am not convinced teams sit deeper against Liverpool then Chelsea causing skewed stats

Jayop

rgace wrote: »

It doesnt really matter but it was more of a reply to your samba football comment earlier.

Teams will play like that against Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea etc and if those bigger teams are good enough they will break them down, I am not convinced teams sit deeper against Liverpool then Chelsea causing skewed stats

My Samba football comment was in response to this...

Rekop dog wrote: »

Hilarious the amount of posters here that go OTT on short term form.

Klopp had them above Arsenal and United in his first full season last year, two teams who outspent them, particularly the latter. And they played significantly better football than both.

Season is only a handful of games old, I'd be more inclined to judge his credentials on a complete season than 7% of the current season.

And yeah, team sit deeper against both Liverpool and Man City than they do other teams as a general rule.

Rekop dog

But their movement and fluidity was vastly superior to teams I mentioned. I still believe it is and they'll outscore the majority this season.

Also re your win % comparison, he came in during a season when the team was a mess, without the benefit of a pre season or time to put his stamp on the squad. I'd be only counting results from last season but that won't suit your clear agenda I'm sure.

Jayop

Rekop dog wrote: »

But their movement and fluidity was vastly superior to teams I mentioned. I still believe it is and they'll outscore the majority this season.

Also re your win % comparison, he came in during a season when the team was a mess, without the benefit of a pre season or time to put his stamp on the squad. I'd be only counting results from last season but that won't suit your clear agenda I'm sure.

Will you give the same honour to the managers he was compared against then? If you look at stats you have to look at the total stats otherwise they're worthless.

His win % since the start of last year including the CL qualifiers is 57%. A bit better admittedly, but can you also have a look at the other managers and see what part of their total tenure you don't want to examine?

Jose has a 59% win rate at United over the same period with far more games.

Rekop dog

Jayop wrote: »

Will you give the same honour to the managers he was compared against then? If you look at stats you have to look at the total stats otherwise they're worthless.

His win % since the start of last year including the CL qualifiers is 57%. A bit better admittedly, but can you also have a look at the other managers and see what part of their total tenure you don't want to examine?

Jose has a 59% win rate at United over the same period with far more games.

I'm just saying you can't throw out stats without context. Rodgers and Rafa had a pre season to buy players and work on their desired tactics. Klopp was thrown in mid season with someone else's team at a very low ebb. Evans was around in an era where there was no City or Chelsea or multi billionaire teams, Liverpool were probably the 2nd biggest spenders then.

Is that including Europa league? In any case Jose spent twice the amount Liverpool have in that period. He'd really ought to have a higher win percentage than that.

Jayop

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm just saying you can't throw out stats without context. Rodgers and Rafa had a pre season to buy players and work on their desired tactics. Klopp was thrown in mid season with someone else's team at a very low ebb. Evans was around in an era where there was no City or Chelsea or multi billionaire teams, Liverpool were probably the 2nd biggest spenders then.

Is that including Europa league? In any case Jose spent twice the amount Liverpool have in that period. He'd really ought to have a higher win percentage than that.

A higher win percentage than that of Alex Ferguson who had 59%??

It's a damn fine figure and it's really surprised me that it was that high given how many sucky draws we had last year. Also, if Jose chooses to use the money available to him and Klopp doesn't then how should that be used a s a stick to beat Jose with?

Rekop dog

Jayop wrote: »

A higher win percentage than that of Alex Ferguson who had 59%??

It's a damn fine figure and it's really surprised me that it was that high given how many sucky draws we had last year. Also, if Jose chooses to use the money available to him and Klopp doesn't then how should that be used a s a stick to beat Jose with?

If I remember right Fergie didn't spend too much time playing in the Europa league against inferior opposition such as Zonya, or playing his stars in the league cup to bulk up his win %, he was too busy playing Europes elite in the CL and you know winning leagues. But continue to make ridiculous statistical comparison with no context, I'm enjoying it.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Rekop dog wrote: »

If I remember right Fergie didn't spend too much time playing in the Europa league against inferior opposition such as Zonya, or playing his stars in the league cup to bulk up his win %, he was too busy playing Europes elite in the CL and you know winning leagues. But continue to make ridiculous statistical comparison with no context, I'm enjoying it.

I suppose Liverpool lost tonight to focus on the Champions League haha. The Liverpool squad is piss poor. Stagnated and you are no where near trophies so in no position to question our 2 trophies last season.

Klopp had one job to improve the defense, which everyone could see, but what did he do. Buy attackers and the Ox.

Jayop

Rekop dog wrote: »

If I remember right Fergie didn't spend too much time playing in the Europa league against inferior opposition such as Zonya, or playing his stars in the league cup to bulk up his win %, he was too busy playing Europes elite in the CL and you know winning leagues. But continue to make ridiculous statistical comparison with no context, I'm enjoying it.

Honestly, what else can I compare Jose's stats to? They are what they are. Has has a 59% win rate. You can decide to dismiss that as too small a sample size if you want and you could be right, but to do that after making the argument that Klopp's sample size should be reduced even more is a bit farcical.

Also, see this is what happens when you have a big squad of good players. You can rest people for the league cup games and still have people complain you're playing your stars to bulk up your win rate. :pac:

Rekop dog

Pheonix10 wrote: »

I suppose Liverpool lost tonight to focus on the Champions League haha. The Liverpool squad is piss poor. Stagnated and you are no where near trophies so in no position to question our 2 trophies last season.

Klopp had one job to improve the defense, which everyone could see, but what did he do. Buy attackers and the Ox.

I'm not a Liverpool fan

Jayop wrote: »

Honestly, what else can I compare Jose's stats to? They are what they are. Has has a 59% win rate. You can decide to dismiss that as too small a sample size if you want and you could be right, but to do that after making the argument that Klopp's sample size should be reduced even more is a bit farcical.

Also, see this is what happens when you have a big squad of good players. You can rest people for the league cup games and still have people complain you're playing your stars to bulk up your win rate. :pac:

I didn't say the sample size was too small. I'm saying it's a relatively easier sample than what Fergie would have faced most seasons so it's not a fair comparison.