The best player from each country to play England

eagle eye

The funny thing is that a lot of people here only remember Giggs as an older player. He was one of the best in the world for a long period of time from his late teens to close to thirty years of age. He went back a little bit after that but still maintained a high enough standard to continue starting in one of the best teams in the Premier league.

8-10

For me the home nations would be Shearer, Dalglish, Giggs and Best.

Haven't seen Bobby Charlton play at the time so can't include him....although using that logic I shouldn't include Best either but pretty sure he beats any NI player I have seen!

For Ireland it's Roy Keane.

There's 2 ways to look at it, best players from a country to have played in England, or best players in the English league from each country and I reckon it has to be the latter. Jari Litmanen is Finland's best player and he played in England...but Hyypia was the better Finn in the English league. Same goes for the Giggs/Bale debate. Rush comes closer to Giggs than Bale for performances in England

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

Jayop wrote: »

Ah lads. If you're going to nominate someone give the other contenders. Like for me I'd have Cantona head and shoulders for France.

Lol, loved Cantona but it's not even close. Thierry Henry is far and away the best Premier league player to ever come out on France. Second would be his former teammate Patrick Viera.

I'd have Cantona above Vieira though fairly close, then again I'm a United fan, but yeah without question the best from France has to be Henry - considering both peak and how long they were in peak, he's arguably the Premier leagues best ever full stop.

GT_TDI_150

R00ster wrote: »

Belgium : Hazard or Kompany? Kompany probably shades it at this moment IMO. If Hazard will probably overtake him in a few years if he stays at Chelsea.

Phillipe Albert?
Romelu Lukaku?
Alderweireld?
Verthongen?
Moussa Dembele?
Kevin Debruyne?
Thibaut Courtois?
Vermaelen?
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
Fellaini?

AidoEirE

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So the list is limited to those we saw play?

I didn't see that in the OP.

Sheesh, suggesting someone considered to be one of the best footballers ever might just also be a candidate for best to play in England seems to have annoyed some. Glad I didn't also mention Ian Rush...

Not at all, hands up i went a stretch to far with the british debacle, but best player to come from a country and you have charles, i have giggs.
I never seen charles play but seen giggs for many years like most.
After re-reading my post think i came across as a ass to you, not my intention.
And to be fair i just found out about a player who i wouldnt have known about.
Read his wiki and he had a solid career for the time he played football.

Giggs still better though

Jayop

domrush wrote: »

I can understand to a degree as peak Bale was a better player than peak Giggs IMO, however when you look at Giggs's career as a whole I think it's one of the most impressive things to be achieved in modern football so Giggs tops Wales list for me as well.

Giggs was as good as Bale when both were in their PL peak. Bales last and best season was great but Giggs had high scoring seasons too where he actually won things.

I honestly think even United fans under state how good Giggs was for so long. It's not even close when looked at as a whole.

Billy86

Re John Charles, a lot of his best years were at Juventus. One Welsh player forgotten by time was Billy Meredith, who was the Stanley Matthews and George Best of football before either were even born, playing for over 34 years from 1890 - 1924. Played over 650 league games (over 740 total) for man utd and man city scoring over 170+ goals in the old outside forward position which traditionally didn't involve scoring many, this despite losing four years of his career to WW1. He was abit of a one man show/tourist attraction for his dribbling skills in a time when that wasn't really much of a thing. Won promotion with city as well as their first ever FA Cup, then moved to man utd and helped them to their first fa cup and first two league trophies, as well as the first ever charity shield game. He also led Wales to two British Home championship trophies when England (and I think Scotland?) were among the very very best teams in the world, if not the best.

Also chewed toothpicks during games, because players used to me tougher damn it! :mad:

He was a founding member of the players union that went on to become the PFA, and went on to have a career in hospitality a d film, even acting in a movie. He died shortly after the Munich Air disaster and for decades was in an unmarked grave, but lives on as a trivia question, just shy of a century after his retirement still being the oldest player on the history of man city and of man utd.

Jayop

Great shout. Forgot Meredith was Welsh actually. Read a fair bit about him over the years. Some scandal over the transfers.

Billy86

Also not sure if they've been mentioned but surely hyypia for Finland (had nothing against him as a player or person but HATED United playing against him, he was so good at stifling play cleanly as well as in the air of course) and lung berg for Sweden?

And for the low hanging fruit, Dwight Yorke for Trinidad and Tobago.

Billy86

Jayop wrote: »

Great shout. Forgot Meredith was Welsh actually. Read a fair bit about him over the years. Some scandal over the transfers.

Indeed there was!

Also an aside, Matthews wasn't even the best English winger of his generation. That belongs to Tom finney, who belongs just outside the likes of Charlton and Moore as the best ever English player. Apologies by the way, didn't notice this was PL era only!

Ferris_Bueller

I think we should have just agreed to leave it to Premier League era players, throwing names into the hat from the 1890s makes the whole thing a bit pointless if none of us have ever seen them play.

Billy86

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

I think we should have just agreed to leave it to Premier League era players, throwing names into the hat from the 1890s makes the whole thing a bit pointless if none of us have ever seen them play.

Yeah, hadn't seen the OP and was just referring to John Charles to be fair. But PL era, it's Giggs hands down.

Scotland in that time... Colin Hendry maybe? They've not had a tonne of talent in the last 25 years, though I remember thinking he was formidable with Blackburn (detested him).

England is a bit of a tough one too, probably Shearer but Scholes, Lampard, and perhaps Campbell, Ferdinand, Terry, Adams and Gerrard would also be in the mix.

Ireland, Keane hands down.

Norn Iron, jaysus this one is lacking...maybe Jonny Evans, Keith Gillespie or Maik Taylor?

domrush

Spain is quite a tough one, standouts for me are:
Xabi Alonso
Fabregas
Torres
De Gea
Silva
Costa

Probably give to Fabregas for doing it over such a long spell with two different teams, Torres was immense for Pool but his Chelsea years bring him down in my eyes.

eh i dunno

Pienaar deserves a mention for best South African. Brilliant little player at Everton before going to spurs.

Billy86

Aussies are interesting... Cahill, Kewell, Schawazer or Viduka? Think I'd lean to Cahill but it's close, esp with Viduka at his best.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

Aussies are interesting... Cahill, Kewell, Schawazer or Viduka? Think I'd lean to Cahill but it's close, esp with Viduka at his best.

Viduka at his best was the best Aussie player. Frankly he was a beast when he bothered his arse as he had unbelievable touch,strength,finishing and heading ability.He'd have been way more consistent if his attitude/work rate improved but when he turned it on he was something else.

bucketybuck

domrush wrote: »

I can understand to a degree as peak Bale was a better player than peak Giggs

No, he was not.

Cantona and Best had the right idea, retire early and keep your world class status, seems like if a player sticks around long enough then 20 years later people forget just how good he was in his prime.

Dirty Dingus McGee

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, he was not.

Cantona and Best had the right idea, retire early and keep your world class status, seems like if a player sticks around long enough then 20 years later people forget just how good he was in his prime.

He was though.Bale won 2 footballer of the year awards. Giggs never won a legitimate one.His one was a lifetime achievement award but they don't have that so they voted for him as the footballer of the year . Giggs never produced a season quite like Bales final season at Spurs where he pulled a rabbit out of a hat constantly and won Spurs games.He never had close to the international career Bale has had either.

You could make the opposite argument about Giggs that his longevity gave his career an overall status above his true level in the game where he was always a level below being a truly great player.

bucketybuck

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He was though.Bale won 2 footballer of the year awards. Giggs never won a legitimate one.His one was a lifetime achievement award but they don't have that so they voted for him as the footballer of the year . Giggs never produced a season quite like Bales final season at Spurs where he pulled a rabbit out of a hat constantly and won Spurs games.He never had close to the international career Bale has had either.

You could make the opposite argument about Giggs that his longevity gave his career an overall status above his true level in the game where he was always a level below being a truly great player.

No, he was not. But I'll just have to give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't around to watch football in the nineties.

And your final paragraph is just laughable. 20 years ago people were comparing Giggs to George Best and yet you seem to think that people only started calling him a legend because he stuck around into his late thirties?

Yeah, sure. Next up people will be saying Kante was better than Roy Keane and Hazard was better than Henry.

764dak

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's amazing how few really top players from the other great football nations have actually played in England, especially given the money involved since the start of the PL. And the standard seems to be getting worse, not better.

Because they overpay Spanish and Portuguese speaking players.

Dirty Dingus McGee

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, he was not. But I'll just have to give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't around to watch football in the nineties.

And your final paragraph is just laughable. 20 years ago people were comparing Giggs to George Best and yet you seem to think that people only started calling him a legend because he stuck around into his late thirties?

Yeah, sure. Next up people will be saying Kante was better than Roy Keane and Hazard was better than Henry.

I was around for most of his career.He was probably at his best in his early 20's and he was excellent up until the early 00's and then I thought he faded for a few years before having his late career revival.He was an excellent player but Bale at his best was much better.

No I wouldn't say Kante was better than Roy Keane or Hazard was better than Henry because they clearly aren't as good as those players.

You support Man Utd so you're bound the be biased in his favour.

Quazzie

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, he was not. But I'll just have to give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't around to watch football in the nineties.

And your final paragraph is just laughable. 20 years ago people were comparing Giggs to George Best and yet you seem to think that people only started calling him a legend because he stuck around into his late thirties?

Yeah, sure. Next up people will be saying Kante was better than Roy Keane and Hazard was better than Henry.

How come he never won a POTY award then?

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I was around for most of his career.He was probably at his best in his early 20's and he was excellent up until the early 00's and then I thought he faded for a few years before having his late career revival.He was an excellent player but Bale at his best was much better.

No I wouldn't say Kante was better than Roy Keane or Hazard was better than Henry because they clearly aren't as good as those players.

You support Man Utd so you're bound the be biased in his favour.

It does help being the star player in the team for a start, while Giggs had votes split with the likes of Keane, Beckham and Scholes. Alongside world class talent all around him, Bale has not looked quite as impressive at Real - still really good, but he's sharing the limelight. Added to that, the first year he won it was pretty weak in terms of competition - though in the second he had RVP (did fall off at the end though) and Suarez (Evra incident, biting incident) to contend against, and he was fantastic that year.

A lot of people forget Giggs was perhaps the best winger in the world for a number of years at his peak.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

It does help being the star player in the team for a start, while Giggs had votes split with the likes of Keane, Beckham and Scholes. Alongside world class talent all around him, Bale has not looked quite as impressive at Real - still really good, but he's sharing the limelight. Added to that, the first year he won it was pretty weak in terms of competition - though in the second he had RVP (did fall off at the end though) and Suarez (Evra incident, biting incident) to contend against, and he was fantastic that year.

A lot of people forget Giggs was perhaps the best winger in the world for a number of years at his peak.

In my opinion he was always behind Figo at the top of wingers of his generation and Robert Pires when he came to england was a bit ahead of Giggs also.

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He was though.Bale won 2 footballer of the year awards. Giggs never won a legitimate one.His one was a lifetime achievement award but they don't have that so they voted for him as the footballer of the year . Giggs never produced a season quite like Bales final season at Spurs where he pulled a rabbit out of a hat constantly and won Spurs games.He never had close to the international career Bale has had either.

You could make the opposite argument about Giggs that his longevity gave his career an overall status above his true level in the game where he was always a level below being a truly great player.

OMG, how wrong can one man be?

Ryan Giggs was one of the best players in the world for about ten years from the age of 19 to 29. He was certainly in the top three wingers at all times during that period.

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

OMG, how wrong can one man be?

Ryan Giggs was one of the best players in the world for about ten years from the age of 19 to 29. He was certainly in the top three wingers at all times during that period.

Bale was better.

That is what the argument was.

You support Man Utd so again like I said above you are obviously going to be biased in his favour.

Why didn't he win player of the year between the ages of 19-29?

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

In my opinion he was always behind Figo at the top of wingers of his generation and Robert Pires when he came to england was a bit ahead of Giggs also.

Figo played on the other side of the park though so Giggs would have been considered the best player in the world in his position for quite a long time.

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

Figo played on the other side of the park though so Giggs would have been considered the best player in the world in his position for quite a long time.

The point was about wingers in general.

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Bale was better.

That is what the argument was.

I don't agree at all. Bale got to the level Giggs was at as a teenager before he went to Real Madrid. Giggs was at a different level in his early twenties to what Bale achieved.

I'll agree that his goalscoring ability was much better than Giggs but as an overall player he wasn't as good as Giggs in his prime.

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The point was about wingers in general.

So whatever suits you. Right?

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

So whatever suits you. Right?

No.

I responded to a point that said he was one of the best wingers in the world.The post didn't specify which side.

You really need to read these things more carefully before you come storming in.

Jayop

If we're saying Bale ass better than Giggs we're as well packing up and going home. Farcical

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

If we're saying Bale ass better than Giggs we're as well packing up and going home. Farcical

You support Man Utd as well so you're bound to be biased in his favour.

Bale at his best is above Giggs at his best.

If Giggs was so much better than Bale why didn't he win any player of the year awards when he was at his best?

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

In my opinion he was always behind Figo at the top of wingers of his generation and Robert Pires when he came to england was a bit ahead of Giggs also.

96-98 I would have gone with Giggs over Figo, who really hit his stride around the turn of the century (and who definitely had the better peak, don't get me wrong). I would definitely have 1990s Giggs ahead of early 2000s Pires, comparing their peaks.

pjohnson

Can we move the fcuk on from Wales since its so highly controversial?

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You support Man Utd as well so you're bound to be biased in his favour.

Bale at his best is above Giggs at his best.

If Giggs was so much better than Bale why didn't he win any player of the year awards when he was at his best?

The same reason Bale hasn't been close to consideration for awards in La Liga - because it's a lot harder to shine when the team isn't built around you and plenty of others can and do take the limelight.

Billy86

pjohnson wrote: »

Can we move the fcuk on from Wales since its so highly controversial?

Here's a nice and easy one so.

IncognitoMan

eagle eye wrote: »

OMG, how wrong can one man be?

Ryan Giggs was one of the best players in the world for about ten years from the age of 19 to 29. He was certainly in the top three wingers at all times during that period.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Bale was better.

That is what the argument was.

You support Man Utd so again like I said above you are obviously going to be biased in his favour.

Why didn't he win player of the year between the ages of 19-29?

I'm fairly sure eagle eye doesn't support Man Utd.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

The same reason Bale hasn't been close to consideration for awards in La Liga - because it's a lot harder to shine when the team isn't built around you and plenty of others can and do take the limelight.

Giggs was pretty much the main man along with Cantona in the early premier league years and even then in those years I don't think he was at Bales level. Giggs had nobody of Ronaldo's ability to take the shine off him as well (not counting the time Ronaldo was at united as Giggs had declined by then) so it's hard to hold that against Bale.

He's top quality I just think Bale did more at his best than Giggs did.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

Here's a nice and easy one so.

I disagree.Igor Stepanovs was miles ahead of Pahars.1 title and 2 FA cups says it all.:D

Jayop

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You support Man Utd as well so you're bound to be biased in his favour.

Bale at his best is above Giggs at his best.

If Giggs was so much better than Bale why didn't he win any player of the year awards when he was at his best?

Because there were better players that year. That's like comparing two songs from different era's and saying why didn't one get to no1 yet the other did. It doesn't take into account what each was up against.

If Bale was so good why didn't he win anything? It's the same stupid thing.

Jayop

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Giggs was pretty much the main man along with Cantona in the early premier league years and even then in those years I don't think he was at Bales level. Giggs had nobody of Ronaldo's ability to take the shine off him as well (not counting the time Ronaldo was at united as Giggs had declined by then) so it's hard to hold that against Bale.

He's top quality I just think Bale did more at his best than Giggs did.

Are you talking about Bale at real? That's nothing got to do with this read the OP man.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

Because there were better players that year. That's like comparing two songs from different era's and saying why didn't one get to no1 yet the other did. It doesn't take into account what each was up against.

If Bale was so good why didn't he win anything? It's the same stupid thing.

Yes and lets be honest the standard of the premier league when Giggs was at his best was well behind the standard today and when Bale was playing there . With that you've actually made an argument against him rather than for him.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

Are you talking about Bale at real? That's nothing got to do with this read the OP man.

No.When he was at Spurs.His last few seasons there were brilliant.He was on the premier league team of the year 3 times, PFA player of the year twice, and was named on the UEFA team of the year twice in that spell also.

Jayop

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Yes and lets be honest the standard of the premier league when Giggs was at his best was well behind the standard today and when Bale was playing there . With that you've actually made an argument against him rather than for him.

Was it?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

Was it?

All the top leagues in Europe have improved in the last 20 years or so because players aren't staying in the smaller leagues any more.Quality players used to stay in the smaller leagues for an awful lot longer back then than they do now.All the talent is now being squashed into the top 4 or 5 leagues and that wasn't the case in the past. Jari Litmanen didn't leave Ajax until he was 28, that level of player would be gone from Ajax by 21 or 22 now.

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

My point is if you've never seen him play how can you possibly categorically declare he is better than Giggs? You can't, because you do, then essentially you are saying you'll accept the judgement of someone else over your own.

If that's the case I'll make sure to dismiss your opinion in future as being someone elses, and therefore not worth reading

Just as well Pele didn't play in England then, isn't it? I mean, he'd be out of the running in this topic...

Jayop

Bale only won player of the year once. I guess Kevin Phillips was better than Giggs too given he won it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

Bale only won player of the year once. I guess Kevin Phillips was better than Giggs too given he won it.

He won the PFA player of the year twice.

2010-11 and 2012-13.

Kevin Phillips was a one season wonder.Bale isn't. He's won 3 champions league titles.

Jayop

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He won the PFA player of the year twice.

2010-11 and 2012-13.

Kevin Phillips was a one season wonder.Bale isn't. He's won 3 champions league titles.

None while playing in England.

So it's the pfa not the premier league player of the year you mean. OK.

Giggs won that in 09.