Apprenticeships mechanics

MKelly202

Autochange wrote: »

I did play with the idea but decided a clean break from the trade while i was young enough was the best option. Plus i live in a small town with 2 already well established garages so it may not have been the best business wise decision for me.

All of the above i mentioned in my previous posts are just my opinion and you or someone else may see things differently. If you are struggling to find an apprenticeship maybe approach some garages and offer to do 2 weeks or a month unpaid as work experience. It will give you a bit of an insight into what to expect work wise and you can speak to the mechanics and other apprentices working there.

Good luck hope it works out for you[/Q

I see what you mean. Well from someone with experience i cant argue with that insight like, It a shame really. Yeah ill look into do that seems like a good thing to do, hopefully it iwll go good. Thanks for the help and advice appreciate it

John_Rambo

Autochange wrote: »

Main dealers charge so much by the hour as the overheads are crazy. Plus there are a lot of staff in a dealership who don't bring in any money. Admin etc. Take insurance, rent , training etc etc into the hourly rate charged. Dealerships make about 15% markup on most parts sold with service parts being the bread and butter. If a dealer is charging example 100 euro per hour then the mechanic may make 11 to 15 ph from that. I worked on a site in Dublin recently and the plumbers were charging 31 ph.
It's a different trade I know but the constant buying of new tools and diagnostic equipment plus continous up skilling means a career in the motor trade is not worth it.
I don't think the public are under paying for repairs and services. It's expensive enough especially in main city dealers. But it dosnt filter down to the mechanic.

Well, that's a bleak reality explained very well, so thanks for that. It's a strange anomaly giving the fact that we're a nation of car lovers and a nation that's more car reliant than most countries. Somebodies creaming the money in and it's not hitting the skilled mechanics, who are, basically the most important people in the equation. You guys need a union!

Autochange

heres the kicker.... The motor trade 'union' is the SIMI! So the garage owners have the say in what the mechanics should be paid! Crazy isnt it. FYI 3 rd year electrical rates as set by solas or fas are higher than qualified mechanic pay rates by a few euro

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/craft/Pages/ApprenticeInfo.aspx

JC01

John_Rambo wrote: »

Well, that's a bleak reality explained very well, so thanks for that. It's a strange anomaly giving the fact that we're a nation of car lovers and a nation that's more car reliant than most countries. Somebodies creaming the money in and it's not hitting the skilled mechanics, who are, basically the most important people in the equation. You guys need a union!

I'd agree with everything Autochange said and actually got attacked on here in the past for expressing the same sentiments about the motor trade.

Funnily enough what you just said is half the problem; we are a nation of car users not car lovers. Generally people here are very poorly educated about cars and are only interested in the lowest cost for a job. Most people seem to think mechanics are spanner monkeys with little to no training and that cars are very simple, trying to explain the complexitys of a modern car is usually a waste of time as they don't want to hear it and you usually get a response along the lines of "ye but the nixer-merchant down the road will do that for half the price"

As an ex-mechanic Iv done the 40hr weeks plus 10-20hrs of nixers myself, it's usually the only way to make a decent living at it but by doing that I'm adding to the problem because I'm actually undercutting my own employer massively because I don't have the overheads he does, this then means less income for him, less pay for the mechanics etc etc.

It's an odd cycle that basically becomes a race to the bottom cost-wise and it'll take a massive shift in the industry to fix the problem. SIMI are a law unto themselves and like the status quo so that's not changing anytime soon.

Thank god im now out of the industry and working in a totally unrelated sector where my entry-level salary was ~10k above my qualified mechanic rate after 5yrs exp. Plus Iv a much better lifestyle, much less hours worked and my job doesn't constantly try to poison and break my body.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

That's insane Autochange and I'm not doubting you for one minute. I'm guessing motor mechanic has to be one of the more complex apprenticeships, suspension, engines (of more than two fuels) gears box, electrics etc... How did this happen? Are we underpaying for car mechanical services in Ireland?

Well most mechanics won't do much electrical stuff, there are auto sparks for that.

Most mechanics won't do a gearbox rebuild, there are gearbox specialists for that.

Most mechanics won't overhaul an engine for you, there are engine overhaul specialists for that.

Most employed mechanics are essentially parts fitters.

The majority of good ones are after specialising (engine overhaul or gearbox businesses) or have their own garage.

Attaining the mechanical qualification isn't overly difficult.

Toyotafanboi

I would argue that most main dealer "mechanics" would comfortably do electrical chasing, gearbox work, engine teardown etc.

kona

Augeo wrote: »

Attaining the mechanical qualification isn't overly difficult.

Are you a mechanic?

Toyotafanboi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I would argue that most main dealer "mechanics" would comfortably do electrical chasing, gearbox work, engine teardown etc.

I'd disagree
Give them another brand of car and see how they get on.

kona wrote: »

Are you a mechanic?

No, do you need to have gone through it to know how difficult it is?
I've seen countless electrical apprenticeship exam papers over the years.

Toyotafanboi

Augeo wrote: »

I'd disagree
Give them another brand of car and see how they get on.

That's a slightly jaundiced approach.

bucketybuck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'd disagree a bit. Having an interest in cars and mechanics would a posotive that i would bring to an interview but i wouldnt expect an interviewee to know anything really and some would almost consider it a bad thing.

And I disagree with you.

We have spent a lot of time and money on our apprentice programmes in the past 5 years, with very good results I might add, and I most definitely want applicants to demonstrate knowledge and an interest in mechanical work itself. That doesn't mean they need to arrive fully qualified, but it makes a massive difference if the young lad wants to be a mechanic and has tinkered a bit in his own time.

You know who the very worst apprentices are? The lads who don't know what they want to do and decide to give mechanical work a try. The lads who can't find work and decide an apprenticeship is better than stacking shelves. Those lads are always the worst for us, they are the ones that we have to keep on top of and have to double check every ****ing nut and bolt, they have no innate interest in the job and just want to daydream the day through until quitting time.
Even the bull****ter know-it-all boy racers are better than the lads who hadn't a clue what it was all about and find they don't actually like the reality.

On a different note, I see some of the usual rubbish being spouted in this thread. Just fitters yeah? Not wall street is it? And yet the forum and country is choc full of people who haven't a clue about cars, its rather ironic really.

It may not be wall street, but I will say one thing that I say to all of our apprentices. You will never meet a man more in demand than a good mechanic. Work hard, put the hours in, learn your trade and it won't be long before min wage is a thing of the past, because a lad with a good reputation will have work and job offers coming out of his hole.

kona

Augeo wrote: »

I'd disagree
Give them another brand of car and see how they get on.



No, do you need to have gone through it to know how difficult it is?
I've seen countless electrical apprenticeship exam papers over the years.

Yea id have to say you would have to go through it to be qualified to discuss how difficult it is.

Otherwise your talking out of your coco.

kona

kona wrote: »

Yea id have to say you would have to go through it to be qualified to discuss how difficult it is.

Otherwise your talking out of your coco.

Well if it was difficult there'd be lots of lads failing it, there'd be a shortage of skills, the wages wouldn't be sh1t for the mostpart.

Do you have to qualify as a brain surgeon to have an opinion on how difficult it is to attain the qualifications?

Which is more difficult? Do you have to go through both to have an opinion?

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

..........

It may not be wall street, but I will say one thing that I say to all of our apprentices. You will never meet a man more in demand than a good mechanic. Work hard, put the hours in, learn your trade and it won't be long before min wage is a thing of the past, because a lad with a good reputation will have work and job offers coming out of his hole.

And the salary would be? Please quantify, if the demand is so high it would have to be really decent surely? Supply and demand etc etc..........

ShadowHearth

DrFunkatron wrote: »

If you don't dress appropriately for an interview it gives the impression you're not arsed about getting a job, personally I'd hire the guy who took the time to prepare himself assuming all other boxes are ticked. Like it or not people are judged by appearances as well as what's on the CV.

I am a bit late to the party, but holy ****, this is the part of hiring and interview world is the most stupid and idiotic. Declined, because had no tie?!
In a way this part that chefing world that does not suck. You can be dressed up as the most fanciest cock in town, but it means feck all.
I had interviews where I walked in right after my shift with chefing pants on and t shirt, still smelling of kitchen. Same as the dude before me. They know that good chefs are busy as **** and have tight time frames. You can walk in for interview with best suit ant tie, but nobody gives a **** as all of the bull**** will be washed off first day or trial day.
In my all interviews I wore jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, chefing cloths. Nobody gave a ****, they cared to see me actually work.

Sexual Chocolate

I done one of those plc mechanical courses a few years back as well as one day (sometimes more) work experience a week in an independent franchise/tyre fitters.

The work experience really opened my eyes as to the ****ty conditions such as pay and watching at how miserable the mechanics were so in short I never pursued it.
Thinking of it there I actually worked in the same place as a well known former member of this forum who was actually the only one to say positive things and take his job serious out of about 7 or 8 other workers.

I learned a few things, mostly tyre related, but the main thing I did learn was to not ever leave my own car into one of these franchise places. Quite sad but its the truth.

Do I regret it ? I dont know tbh. I do wonder if I had done my WE in a main dealer would things be different.

Would I try and get back into it ? Probably not, like I said it was a few years back and I have being working at something different since I finished the course so I would find it very difficult to live off the apprentice wage, I just about cut it fine on minimum at the moment....


But thats just my experience of it all. Best of luck with it OP, just make sure its what you want.

bucketybuck

Augeo wrote: »

And the salary would be? Please quantify, if the demand is so high it would have to be really decent surely? Supply and demand etc etc..........

Honestly, I consider your posts in this thread not worth responding too.

kona

Augeo wrote: »

Well if it was difficult there'd be lots of lads failing it, there'd be a shortage of skills, the wages wouldn't be sh1t for the mostpart.

Do you have to qualify as a brain surgeon to have an opinion on how difficult it is to attain the qualifications?

Which is more difficult? Do you have to go through both to have an opinion?

Here pal dont get butthurt because your opinion is aload of bollix.

Being a mechanic is far more than passing exams ( youve seen a few sparks examination papers so they must be the same as a mechanics right?) You actually need to have a pair of hands that can do more than type ****e into a computer, judging by some of the work i see done by "enthusiasts" a pair of hands is not something alot of the population are blessed with.

Wonder what you do for a living, must be some difficult job that nobody here would understand.

JC01

Definatly disagree with some of the stuff said on here but Iv always thought the qualification was way too "easy" to attain, in my phases there was maybe 5/12 lads who actually had a clue yet all of us passed each exam. The most completely useless hadnt a bulls notion fella actually matched me as the best results in phases 2 and 6 because the lecturers loved him.

In reality all you have to really do to get the qualification is hang around at it for 4 odd years, whether your brilliant or crap the end result is largely the same; do you have your papers? "Yes"

This not only hurts the trade due to poor quality "qualified" mechanics but really hurts the standing off the qualification which some lads take very seriously and work there asses off for.

MKelly202

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I disagree with you.

We have spent a lot of time and money on our apprentice programmes in the past 5 years, with very good results I might add, and I most definitely want applicants to demonstrate knowledge and an interest in mechanical work itself. That doesn't mean they need to arrive fully qualified, but it makes a massive difference if the young lad wants to be a mechanic and has tinkered a bit in his own time.

You know who the very worst apprentices are? The lads who don't know what they want to do and decide to give mechanical work a try. The lads who can't find work and decide an apprenticeship is better than stacking shelves. Those lads are always the worst for us, they are the ones that we have to keep on top of and have to double check every ****ing nut and bolt, they have no innate interest in the job and just want to daydream the day through until quitting time.
Even the bull****ter know-it-all boy racers are better than the lads who hadn't a clue what it was all about and find they don't actually like the reality.

On a different note, I see some of the usual rubbish being spouted in this thread. Just fitters yeah? Not wall street is it? And yet the forum and country is choc full of people who haven't a clue about cars, its rather ironic really.

It may not be wall street, but I will say one thing that I say to all of our apprentices. You will never meet a man more in demand than a good mechanic. Work hard, put the hours in, learn your trade and it won't be long before min wage is a thing of the past, because a lad with a good reputation will have work and job offers coming out of his hole.

Great comment! thanks

MKelly202

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I disagree with you.

We have spent a lot of time and money on our apprentice programmes in the past 5 years, with very good results I might add, and I most definitely want applicants to demonstrate knowledge and an interest in mechanical work itself. That doesn't mean they need to arrive fully qualified, but it makes a massive difference if the young lad wants to be a mechanic and has tinkered a bit in his own time.

You know who the very worst apprentices are? The lads who don't know what they want to do and decide to give mechanical work a try. The lads who can't find work and decide an apprenticeship is better than stacking shelves. Those lads are always the worst for us, they are the ones that we have to keep on top of and have to double check every ****ing nut and bolt, they have no innate interest in the job and just want to daydream the day through until quitting time.
Even the bull****ter know-it-all boy racers are better than the lads who hadn't a clue what it was all about and find they don't actually like the reality.

On a different note, I see some of the usual rubbish being spouted in this thread. Just fitters yeah? Not wall street is it? And yet the forum and country is choc full of people who haven't a clue about cars, its rather ironic really.

It may not be wall street, but I will say one thing that I say to all of our apprentices. You will never meet a man more in demand than a good mechanic. Work hard, put the hours in, learn your trade and it won't be long before min wage is a thing of the past, because a lad with a good reputation will have work and job offers coming out of his hole.

Bucketybuck..

For me, right now I couldn't care less about minimum wages , If I was getting the Fas apprenticeship wages through phase 1 to 4 id be delighted. I just want to get in with a decent garage and work. I want to learn the trade,work up to become a master technician with a brand and then learn auto electrician work.

I would work my ass and off there'd be no bull**** about it. I came on to this forum for advice because of not being successful in previous interviews and I'm frustrated that I got no where.. What advice would you give to me from your experience with apprentices?

anything would be helpful, thanks!

kona

kona wrote: »

Here pal dont get butthurt because your opinion is aload of bollix.

Being a mechanic is far more than passing exams ( youve seen a few sparks examination papers so they must be the same as a mechanics right?) You actually need to have a pair of hands that can do more than type ****e into a computer, judging by some of the work i see done by "enthusiasts" a pair of hands is not something alot of the population are blessed with.

Wonder what you do for a living, must be some difficult job that nobody here would understand.

I reckon you might be the butt hurt one
My point about the sparks exams wasn't at all what you think it was.
Well, as you aren't qualified to do my job in your own book your opinion on it is invalid I don't type sh1te into a computer as a profession btw bud.

JC01 wrote: »

............. Iv always thought the qualification was way too "easy" to attain, in my phases there was maybe 5/12 lads who actually had a clue yet all of us passed each exam. The most completely useless hadnt a bulls notion fella actually matched me as the best results in phases 2 and 6 because the lecturers loved him.

In reality all you have to really do to get the qualification is hang around at it for 4 odd years, whether your brilliant or crap the end result is largely the same; do you have your papers? "Yes"

This not only hurts the trade due to poor quality "qualified" mechanics but really hurts the standing off the qualification which some lads take very seriously and work there asses off for.

As I said, not difficult to attain Kona will struggle to disregard your view as you are qualified as a mechanic.
Anyone who reckons it's difficult to qualify as a mechanic is delirious or severely blinkered.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Honestly, I consider your posts in this thread not worth responding too.

Basically you don't want to quantify what the "in demand" lads who are overwhelmed with job offers earn
We all know why you won't.

bucketybuck wrote: »

............ You will never meet a man more in demand than a good mechanic. Work hard, put the hours in, learn your trade and it won't be long before min wage is a thing of the past, because a lad with a good reputation will have work and job offers coming out of his hole.

That comment of yours is laughable tbh, and you know it too.

Brian?

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'd be aiming towards main dealers if I was looking. There is a drought of good mechanics at the moment and a lot of manufacturers are recommending their dealers to take on apprentices to grow their own future mechanics. An independent is fine but I'd say in 99% of independents it's all about who you know.

You don't need any skills to become an apprentice which makes it both very easy and very difficult. We get numerous C.V.s every day for mechanic and apprentice positions. I'd say the ticket to getting an interview for getting an apprentice position is having a well presented C.V. even if there isn't much content. Don't use silly or large fonts or switch between fonts, don't ramble on etc, a well formatted C.V. is your best bet. Any sloppy C.V.'s, ones with poor spelling, bad grammar etc don't go down well.

When you get to an interview, dress smart. The amount of people coming to interviews lately with a terrible dress sense is phenomenal. I've witnessed a few recently where even one chap turned up in a pair of Canto's and his county colours ffs. A lot of lads aren't wearing ties too which is bad, wear a tie, we had one average fella in and we were stuck to fill a position so he was likely to land the job if he was any way decent and after a bit of deliberation, the reason he didn't get a call back is because he wasn't wearing a tie. You don't need an Armani suit but if you are cash strapped a Pennies suit is a minimum IMO.

That's a bit silly. I interviewed people a few errors ago, hired 2 from 5. Some wore ties, some didn't. It had zero baring on their suitability to the job.

Clean yourself up and dress decent, but I don't think any decision should be based on the presence of a tie.

kona

Augeo wrote: »

I don't type sh1te into a computer as a profession btw bud.

.

You should give it a go, your extremely talented at it.

I see ypuve no problem talking **** about other trades yet wont say what high level job you have.

kona

kona wrote: »

You should give it a go, your extremely talented at it.

I see ypuve no problem talking **** about other trades yet wont say what high level job you have.

You seem annoyed
As another mechanic has said, it's way too easy to attain the qualification. Lads with no interest and no clue get qualified. Many of them remain in the industry.

The pay is poor for many/most mechanics working in garages they don't own.

You can come along and deny it's easy to get qualified as a mechanic, the other lad can say good mechanics are in huge demand with plenty job offers yet not quantify what they are offered

None of that changes the facts, easy to get qualified, lots of sh1t mechanics about, pay is poor etc etc.

I don't claim I have a high level job btw
You are essentially trying to convince folk a mechanic is though

kona

Augeo wrote: »

You seem annoyed
As another mechanic has said, it's way too easy to attain the qualification. Lads with no interest and no clue get qualified. Many of them remain in the industry.

The pay is poor for many/most mechanics working in garages they don't own.

You can come along and deny it's easy to get qualified as a mechanic, the other lad can say good mechanics are in huge demand with plenty job offers yet not quantify what they are offered

None of that changes the facts, easy to get qualified, lots of sh1t mechanics about, pay is poor etc etc.

I don't claim I have a high level job btw
You are essentially trying to convince folk a mechanic is though

Theres lots of **** people in all jobs that managed to get qualified somehow :rolleyes:

Youve come on to a thread that a young lad created asking about becoming a mechanic.
All you contributed was to belittle the trade and then claim its easy to get qualified(bacause you have seen another trades exam papers so therefore another trade must be the same).

You were asked what you do for a living that is so much more in demand and well paid than a car mechanic (or parts fitter as you called them) and you couldnt even reply

Im not even a car mechanic.

bucketybuck

Augeo wrote: »

Basically you don't want to quantify what the "in demand" lads who are overwhelmed with job offers earn
We all know why you won't.

Why I won't? The reason I wouldn't is because I can guess your motives and know that no matter what answer I give you will disregard it.

There are lads on our workshop floor right this minute earning €1000+ per week with overtime, and in fact there are 5 people on that floor earning more than I do despite the small fact that I am their boss. And I know about the job offers they all get because its a small industry and everybody talks, not to mention how many times I've had to give another bump to a lad who just got offered the world by one of the resurgent construction or fleet companies.

But sure what would I know, I only run a workshop.

bucketybuck

MKelly202 wrote: »

What advice would you give to me from your experience with apprentices?

anything would be helpful, thanks!

There is no one answer, but when I get a chance later on I will try and explain the sort of things I look for in interviews!

kona

kona wrote: »

..............

Im not even a car mechanic.

You wouldn't know how easy it is so to become one

kona wrote: »

..............

You were asked what you do for a living that is so much more in demand and well paid than a car mechanic (or parts fitter as you called them) and you couldnt even reply .............

What I do for a living has nothing to do with how great or otherwise in demand mechanics are paid.

kona wrote: »

................. then claim its easy to get qualified(bacause you have seen another trades exam papers so therefore another trade must be the same)..............

That wasn't my point at all. It's more difficult to become an electrician, better paid job, more folk applying and much better opportunities. The exams are still not tough though.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why I won't? The reason I wouldn't is because I can guess your motives and know that no matter what answer I give you will disregard it.

There are lads on our workshop floor right this minute earning €1000+ per week with overtime............

Overtime isn't really included in salaries .............. overtime could be every Saturday.
As you run a workshop I'm sure you agree that in general, mechanics get paid badly.

Autochange

To the guy saying it's not difficult to to become a mechanic ie pass the exams in a way you are correct. You listen somewhat in class then write what you remember on exam day. It's not difficult. They go over and over it and drill it into you.

It's when you are actually on the job and the variety of issues you come across can be overwhelming for some. The electrical systems in modern vehicles can have up to 15 ecus using coded hi/low 6v and 12v canbus wiring. To be able to diagnose either electrical or mecanical issues you must know how everything works and talks to each other. Faults can be intermittent causing a variety of strange issues. You can spend days going through mountains of wiring and testing while pulling a car to pieces. Then the next job for example could be an engine rebuild on an engine type you have never seen before which will need stripping down leaving a mountain of parts to be reasembbled .It's always evolving new systems, new engines, new diagnostic techniques. More and more training. While all the time your "efficency and productivity" s under scrutiny.

The fundamentals of an electricians job don't change or evolve unless they move into that field. As a mechanic you don't have a choice you must keep learning and all for half the same pay as other trades in some circumstances.

If you have never actually worked as a mechanic on modern vehicles you do not have a clue what it's like.