2017/18 UEFA Champions League

beya2009

That's rare opposing fans applaud player from another team. Funnily enough last time that probably happened was when Brazilian Ronaldo had a great game against man u at old trafford.

martyos121

beya2009 wrote: »

That's rare opposing fans applaud player from another team. Funnily enough last time that probably happened was when Brazilian Ronaldo had a great game against man u at old trafford.

It actually happened in 2014 when Jonjo Shelvey scored a screamer at Anfield for Swansea.

And people said mentioning Jonjo Shelvey relevantly in a Champions League thread couldn’t be done...:pac:

Rekop dog

beya2009 wrote: »

That's rare opposing fans applaud player from another team. Funnily enough last time that probably happened was when Brazilian Ronaldo had a great game against man u at old trafford.

Ronaldinho got a starding ovation in the Bernabeu before.

Turtwig

beya2009 wrote: »

That's rare opposing fans applaud player from another team. Funnily enough last time that probably happened was when Brazilian Ronaldo had a great game against man u at old trafford.

It happens quite a lot.
Lewadoski.
Messi.
Salah.
Isco
De Bruyne.
Rakitic.
Ronaldinho.


There is actually a really long list of these instances.

dirtyden

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo has been incredible in this calender year 2018 so far.

I think when both Ronaldo & Messi retire everyone will realise there the 2 greatest players of all time. Easily better than Pele & Maradona.

I think all three should be discussed at the same level but there is no way either Messi or Ronaldo are easily better than Maradona. No way. Maradona almost single handed winning the 1986 World Cup was as good as I have ever seen a footballer play.

Trigger

dirtyden wrote: »

I think all three should be discussed at the same level but there is no way either Messi or Ronaldo are easily better than Maradona. No way. Maradona almost single handed winning the 1986 World Cup was as good as I have ever seen a footballer play.

I see what you did there.. touché

tanko

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Second half takeaways: What a man.



On a lower note, was I imagining it or could you hear monkey chants ~80th minute when Marcelo was taking a throw-in?

No you didnt imagine it, clearly picked up by the pitchside mics.

DJIMI TRARORE

Anyone on here think KDB has a chance of the ballon dor,esp if city win CL (possibility) or Belgium get to WC SF(not a hope of them winning it)

beya2009

DJIMI TRARORE wrote: »

Anyone on here think KDB has a chance of the ballon dor,esp if city win CL (possibility) or Belgium get to WC st(not a hope of them winning it)

Yep why not. He's easily top 5 best players in the world and a UCL win to complete the treble would be some achievement but I can't see it happening.

martyos121

DJIMI TRARORE wrote: »

Anyone on here think KDB has a chance of the ballon dor,esp if city win CL (possibility) or Belgium get to WC st(not a hope of them winning it)

Never gonna happen, no matter how much he may end up deserving it. To be honest, after Philipp Lahm was snubbed for the award in 2013 despite being the absolute best player in Europe (and adapting to a brand new position so seamlessly in the second half of that year that it looked like he played his entire career in midfield), I lost any hope that a player outside of Messi and Ronaldo would ever win the award while at least one of those two was still playing at a high level.

Some people think the award is given for having the best individual season, others think it’s for being the best footballer in the world during that year. Whatever of those two ways you look at it, it’s been awarded incorrectly a number of times and it’s really just a popularity contest.

Richard Hillman

dirtyden wrote: »

I think all three should be discussed at the same level but there is no way either Messi or Ronaldo are easily better than Maradona. No way. Maradona almost single handed winning the 1986 World Cup was as good as I have ever seen a footballer play.

All of Maradona's achievements are defunct for being a Doper.

bucketybuck

Ronaldo and Messi kept winning it because every season they have been miles ahead of every other player on the planet, regardless of how much somebody wanted their favourite player to win it that particular year.

Show me a list of players that deserved to win the Ballon d'or at any point in the last decade and I'll show you a list of players not as good as Messi or Ronaldo, by any metric.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ronaldo and Messi kept winning it because every season they have been miles ahead of every other player on the planet, regardless of how much somebody wanted their favourite player to win it that particular year.

Show me a list of players that deserved to win the Ballon d'or at any point in the last decade and I'll show you a list of players not as good as Messi or Ronaldo, by any metric.

In fairness, I thought Pepe deserved it for the year he had with Real and Portugal when he was absolutely immense in both the CL and Euros and contributed to both of those wins that year as much if not more than Ronaldo imo. Very hard not to give it to the guy with the 50 odd goals though I guess

mickmackey1

Richard Hillman wrote: »

All of Maradona's achievements are defunct for being a Doper.

The England defence certainly looked like dopes when he left 5 of them on their a$s

ERG89

bucketybuck wrote:

Show me a list of players that deserved to win the Ballon d'or at any point in the last decade and I'll show you a list of players not as good as Messi or Ronaldo, by any metric.

Thought Xavi or Iniesta could have won it when Spain were winning all around them & they were the best midfielders in Europe when there were was a lot of good midfielders. The one thing I'd say about Ronaldo/Messi to Pele/Maradona is the later had to put up with a lot more physicality. When Maradona was playing there was a lot of talented defenders too all around Europe now there are close to an endangered species

mickmackey1

theoneeyedman wrote: »

BTW, what qualifies Juve to be termed 'European giants'? Italian giants yes, but for all their titles and perennial European Cup/Champions league participants, they have only won it twice.

They were the first club to win all 3 European trophies.

NIMAN

Anyone else think the CL is getting to the stage now when the same 4 teams are going to be dishing out trashings right up to the later stages?

I mean, Madrid made Juve look like a poor side tonight.

And up to now, too many teams are being spanked out of sight. A lot of big scorelines in the knockouts, which obviously doesn't bode well for future group stages which are likely to be walks in the park for the big boys.

(Although I do think the retirement of Messi and Ronaldo will be greatest levellers)

ERG89

NIMAN wrote:

Anyone else think the CL is getting to the stage now when the same 4 teams are going to be dishing out trashings right up to the later stages?

Bit harsh on Man City expecting them to be trashed, they haven't even played yet joking obviously
I think City are the only English side who can trade with the big sides on a consistent basis in the knockouts. PSG need to toss out a lot to make the step up as most of that side failed too often on the big stage. Even Bayern now aren't what they were 2 or 3 years ago.
Real & Barca still a step above as long as Ronaldo & Messi exist.

bucketybuck

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone else think the CL is getting to the stage now when the same 4 teams are going to be dishing out trashings right up to the later stages?

I mean, Madrid made Juve look like a poor side tonight.

And up to now, too many teams are being spanked out of sight. A lot of big scorelines in the knockouts, which obviously doesn't bode well for future group stages which are likely to be walks in the park for the big boys.

(Although I do think the retirement of Messi and Ronaldo will be greatest levellers)

The ruling bodies have put a lot of time and effort into making the big clubs bigger, its absolutely no surprise at all that we have reached a point where the same clubs are dominant year after year. There will of course always be a few outliers but the trend is only going one way, and the scary part is that they are not finished yet. Let them implement a Euro super league or whatever and then you'll really see a procession of "big" games that mean **** all.

TomSweeney

Spurs would have done much better against Real then Juve did ... shame really ...

NIMAN

This is my point, football for me, and a lot of people I know, is getting kinda boring.

It seems the point at which the CL got interesting is moving closer to the semi's every year, as the big boys are separating from the 'slightly less big boys'.

The groups are now a waste of time imho.

And it used to get interesting come the knockouts. Now the 1st round of knockouts is more or less a formality.

Football has to be exciting, interesting and intriguing for fans to keep their interest. Juve are being fooled as they keep walking Serie A.

I'd guess now Madrid and Barca don't care much for La Liga, the big prize is the CL now.

NIMAN

And the daftest thing of all, after Madrid's demolition of Juve tonight, if Madrid don't win the CL this year, Zidane will get the boot.

~Rebel~

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone else think the CL is getting to the stage now when the same 4 teams are going to be dishing out trashings right up to the later stages?

I mean, Madrid made Juve look like a poor side tonight.

And up to now, too many teams are being spanked out of sight. A lot of big scorelines in the knockouts, which obviously doesn't bode well for future group stages which are likely to be walks in the park for the big boys.

(Although I do think the retirement of Messi and Ronaldo will be greatest levellers)

To be fair, so did Spurs though. Were much better across the park over the two legs, but just Spurs'd themselves up in the end when it really counted. But this Juve side is a good step behind past ones.

Madrid are absolutely fantastic obviously, but I reckon Juve are only ahead of Seville in terms of the remaining quality of teams.

Officer999

Bayern seriously flying under the radar again. Don't think they would fear any team in the semis.

The Talking Bread

Officer999 wrote: »

Bayern seriously flying under the radar again. Don't think they would fear any team in the semis.

Meh

The other 3 "likely " semi finalists would fear BM less than BM would fear them to put things in perspective

inforfun

martyos121 wrote: »

Never gonna happen, no matter how much he may end up deserving it. To be honest, after Philipp Lahm was snubbed for the award in 2013 despite being the absolute best player in Europe (and adapting to a brand new position so seamlessly in the second half of that year that it looked like he played his entire career in midfield), I lost any hope that a player outside of Messi and Ronaldo would ever win the award while at least one of those two was still playing at a high level.

Some people think the award is given for having the best individual season, others think it’s for being the best footballer in the world during that year. Whatever of those two ways you look at it, it’s been awarded incorrectly a number of times and it’s really just a popularity contest.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ronaldo and Messi kept winning it because every season they have been miles ahead of every other player on the planet, regardless of how much somebody wanted their favourite player to win it that particular year.

Show me a list of players that deserved to win the Ballon d'or at any point in the last decade and I'll show you a list of players not as good as Messi or Ronaldo, by any metric.

Sneijder deserved it in 2010 (CL with Inter, WC final and WC top scorer) and Robben in 2014
They can have it wrong once (2010) but not giving it to Robben in 2014 was farcical.
Both didnt even make the last 3.

Rekop dog

It's not the same 4 teams dominating though. Both Juve and Atleti made the final twice in the last four years, it's hardly been a procession for the big four you speak of. Atleti extremely unlucky not to win one of those finals imo. They look like they're close to being back to elite status again with Costa in the side. They're not a team to steamroll anyone like Real but they've proven they can consistently mix it with the very best of them.

Juve have just dropped off a little in quality this season but that's natural with any side, it's an ageing squad and they've lost a Pirlo Vidal Pogba midfield that got them to the first final.

They've both done far more than City have anyway in this competition. Obviously they're a different beast this season but still have plenty to prove in this competition and are going up against one of the consistent European overachievers tonight so nothing's guaranteed there. City have a long way to go before we put them in boringly predictable category.

But you look back at any era of the CL it's never been wildly open. You had your Milan and Ajax era early to mid 90's, then a Real, Juve, Bayern period of dominance after that, then early to late naughties Barca and Milan were miles the best, then there a period when United Chelsea Barca excelled. There been a random winner or two thrown in there but that's just the nature of tournament football.

I've always found this competition to be the best in sport and still do to this day. To associate it with a work like boring probably speaks more for your own love of the game rather than anything different happening now compared to before.

Rekop dog

inforfun wrote: »

Sneijder deserved it in 2010 (CL with Inter, WC final and WC top scorer) and Robben in 2014
They can have it wrong once (2010) but not giving it to Robben in 2014 was farcical.
Both didnt even make the last 3.

I'm sensing a slight Dutch bias here haha. And neither were in the same stratosphere as Messi or Ronaldo at any period including those season.

bucketybuck

inforfun wrote: »

Sneijder deserved it in 2010 (CL with Inter, WC final and WC top scorer) and Robben in 2014
They can have it wrong once (2010) but not giving it to Robben in 2014 was farcical.
Both didnt even make the last 3.

Robben in 2014 was not as good as either Ronaldo or Messi were in 2014.

Ronaldo had 52 goals and 18 assists, Messi had 53 goals and 23 assists. Robben had 21 goals and 17 assists.

Ronaldo won the Champions league. Messi won La Liga and got to a world cup final. Robben picked up another German title and got to the world cup semi finals.

Performances are subjective but if the 50+ goals aren't proof of performance there is also my opinion that Messi and Ronaldo continued to dominate games more than any other player in 2014, including Robben.

Which was the point, you might have liked Robben and thought that those few games busting up and down the field in the world cup looked impressive (yes I remember them) but the reality is that while he did well, by any metric he was not as good as the two lads who were doubling his goal tally and winning all the big prizes. Farcical would have been passing over the best just in the name of giving somebody else a turn.

Turtwig

Up until their major blunder that led to Ronnies amazing goal Juve were very much in the match. They're weren't massively inferior to Madrid. Granted, the tie is now probably done, but that's the sport comprehensive victories will happen. Play that match again last night and the result could have been different.
Key turning points being:
Juve squandering equaliser opportunities.
Chielini moment prior to Ronaldo goal.
That goal.
Dybala sending off.
Allegri gambling and going all out with ten men. Gamble backfired.

inforfun

Rekop dog wrote: »

I'm sensing a slight Dutch bias here haha. And neither were in the same stratosphere as Messi or Ronaldo at any period including those season.

Of course there is Dutch bias there in a sense that i remember their performances better than most of you here.
Bucketybuck asked for examples of players who should have won it instead of ronaldo or messi.
Someone mentioned Pepe in 2016. No matter how much i hate the guy, i think he deserved it more than Ronaldo in 2016.
Any German here might have put a good argument forward for Neuer in 2014.

But if winning the Scudetto, the CL en top scorer and finalist of the WC in 2010 isnt enough to win it for Sneijder..... He didnt even make the top 3.
And dont get me wrong, i am no Sneijder fan.
Certainly the last 4 years i have developed a healthy dislike for him as the only thing important on the pitch for Wesley Sneijder was Wesley Sneijder.

And Robbben did a little bit more in 2014 than just run during a few matches in the WC.

Bridge93

I'm surprised people are calling it boring. The nature of sport is the best teams will win out more times than not. And those teams won't fall away after one year. That's true of the Champions League or domestic leagues.

It's true of any sport too. Look at Usain Bolt or Mo Farah in athletics. The All Blacks in rugby. The last 7 Heineken Cups have been won by 3 teams. Last 4 six nations by two with the other coming second when they didn't win it. Australia have won four of the last 5 cricket world cups.

It's very rare in top level pro sport to have perfect competition all the time.

Guy:Incognito

"best player" awards are all relative and a bit pointless.

There are defenders that have as good a season defending as strikers will goalscoring but won't get the recognition. Goalkeepers are shockingly dismissed too.

GavRedKing

Wasn't on last night but that Ronaldo goal, some serious technique from the man.

Have to also say that it could have been much worse for Juve, Real hit the woodwork twice but once Dybala was sent off, Real knew the tie was done and dusted at that stage but prior to Ronaldos 2nd, Juve were arguably the better side.

The Semi finals are shaping up nicely, Real are pretty much confirmed there, Bayern have one foot in the SF, youd have to fancy Barca over two l legs against Roma and City/Pool is tough to call but I'd favour City given their domestic dominance.

eagle eye

If Real make the final and Ronaldo scores in the SF and final there are a lot of people who are going to be eating crow after calling time on his career a couple of months ago.

Billy86

inforfun wrote: »

Sneijder deserved it in 2010 (CL with Inter, WC final and WC top scorer) and Robben in 2014
They can have it wrong once (2010) but not giving it to Robben in 2014 was farcical.
Both didnt even make the last 3.

I don't know that not giving it to Robben was farcicial, but it not going to one of him, James Rodriguez or Mascherano (who was the best player in the tournament by a distance but marketing reasons would have never allowed that) absolutely was.

Messi had a good tournament as did others like Neymar, but it was 100% clear as soon as he was given it that FIFA were eager for that to happen before a single ball had been kicked in the tournament.

EDIT: Just now noticing that was for the Ballon d'Or and not 2010 WC best player - never mind!

eagle eye

Personally thought Kroos was the best player in 2014.

Rekop dog

inforfun wrote: »

Of course there is Dutch bias there in a sense that i remember their performances better than most of you here.
Bucketybuck asked for examples of players who should have won it instead of ronaldo or messi.
Someone mentioned Pepe in 2016. No matter how much i hate the guy, i think he deserved it more than Ronaldo in 2016.
Any German here might have put a good argument forward for Neuer in 2014.

But if winning the Scudetto, the CL en top scorer and finalist of the WC in 2010 isnt enough to win it for Sneijder..... He didnt even make the top 3.
And dont get me wrong, i am no Sneijder fan.
Certainly the last 4 years i have developed a healthy dislike for him as the only thing important on the pitch for Wesley Sneijder was Wesley Sneijder.

And Robbben did a little bit more in 2014 than just run during a few matches in the WC.

Sneijder wasn't even the best player in his own team that year. He's far too mercurial to ever be considered the best over a years sample of games. Millito got Serie A player of the year that season. He was also the star in the CL final. I'd have had Maicon and Zanetti ahead of Wesley in terms of influence in that side that season too.

And he was joint top scorer with three others in the world cup. Good achievement all the same but he wasn't unbelievably standout that year despite the successes.

The Floyd p

Rekop dog wrote: »

And he was joint top scorer with three others in the world cup. Good achievement all the same but he wasn't unbelievably standout that year despite the successes.

Not to mention that his WC was a tad overrated tbh, it sounds great saying he did all those things but upon further analysis he wasn't as dominant as it sounds. Messi was the best player in the world in 2010, CR deserved it in 2014. International football is almost always more heavily weighted than club success, but the truth of the matter is that consistently performing well is what should count for more.

I can't really disagree with any Ballon D'or given out since 2006 when Cannavaro won it for 7 great games.

inforfun

Rekop dog wrote: »

Sneijder wasn't even the best player in his own team that year. He's far too mercurial to ever be considered the best over a years sample of games. Millito got Serie A player of the year that season. He was also the star in the CL final. I'd have had Maicon and Zanetti ahead of Wesley in terms of influence in that side that season too.

And he was joint top scorer with three others in the world cup. Good achievement all the same but he wasn't unbelievably standout that year despite the successes.

All nice and well that you dont want to agree on Sneijder but it was Messi who won it for Iniesta en Xavi in 2010.
So he scored 60 goals in 2010 but he dint win the Cl, didnt win the WC, but he won La Liga.

Again, someone asked for any players who were worthy of winning it any year Messi or Ronaldo won it.
Most of the times they won it deservedly but not all 10x they won it combined.
Just as i think there were occasions one of the 2 won it while the other should have.

Adamcp898

tanko wrote: »

No you didnt imagine it, clearly picked up by the pitchside mics.

Puts all the "weren't the Juve fans great for applauding Ronaldo" crap into perspective.

Skylinehead

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Meh

The other 3 "likely " semi finalists would fear BM less than BM would fear them to put things in perspective

Even if they don't fear Bayern, they should fear Heynckes. He knows what needs to be done. I'd have them ahead of City, easily.

inforfun

Yep, Grandad's last trick.

GavRedKing

Skylinehead wrote: »

Even if they don't fear Bayern, they should fear Heynckes. He knows what needs to be done. I'd have them ahead of City, easily.

Ya, I'd agree.

I'd have Barca, Real, Bayern and then City, as favourites as of right now.

I don't think there's much between Barca, Real, Bayern either.

Reals experience and ability to get results in the CL despite having several moments of madness at the back every game, makes me think they've struck a deal with the devil for the CL again this year.

ERG89

Messi back in; Roma without Nainggolan & Under. Could be over tonight.


Barcelona: Ter Stegen; Sergi Roberto, Pique, Umtiti, Jordi Alba; Semedo, Sergio Busquets, Rakitic, Iniesta; L Suarez, Messi

Barcelona bench: Cillesen, Dembele, Vermaelen, Paulinho, Gomes, Paco Alcacer, Denis Suarez

Roma: Alisson; Bruno Peres, Manolas, Fazio, Kolarov; Pellegrini, De Rossi, Strootman; Florenzi, Dzeko, Perotti

Roma bench: Skorupski, Juan Jesus, Gonalons, Gerson, Defrel, El Shaarawy, Schick

Ferris_Bueller

Turtwig wrote: »

Up until their major blunder that led to Ronnies amazing goal Juve were very much in the match. They're weren't massively inferior to Madrid. Granted, the tie is now probably done, but that's the sport comprehensive victories will happen. Play that match again last night and the result could have been different.
Key turning points being:
Juve squandering equaliser opportunities.
Chielini moment prior to Ronaldo goal.
That goal.
Dybala sending off.
Allegri gambling and going all out with ten men. Gamble backfired.

Yeah pretty much my thoughts on the game too, if you had of swapped Ronaldo with Higuain it could easily have been Juventus who were 2-0 up after an hour. Ronaldo is an amazing player, how he has adjusted his game over the years and still decides such important games.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think any loss beyond 2 goals ends the tie for Roma.

Unicrons Dad

Is the draw for the semis made ?

Mr.Nice Guy

Barca lead 1-0. De Rossi O.G.

A Dub in Glasgo

What a fine finish from De Rossi