2017/18 UEFA Champions League

Jayop

blueser wrote: »

If that's the case, how do Shakhtar constantly get into Pot 1. I don't remember them ever doing anything of note in the CL. Is the Ukranian league (and the winning of it) more credible than, say, the Dutch or Belgian leagues?

I said this a few days ago. The current system if having the top 8 league winners in pot 1 is a joke and leaves the draw totally unbalanced. It should be the top 3 league winners and then the 5 best teams by coefficient.

Cookiemunster

blueser wrote: »

If that's the case, how do Shakhtar constantly get into Pot 1. I don't remember them ever doing anything of note in the CL. Is the Ukranian league (and the winning of it) more credible than, say, the Dutch or Belgian leagues?

In UEFAs eyes, yes it is because it has a higher UEFA ranking than those leagues.

Jayop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Isn't it ranked on how often you have been in the CL and how far the teams gets each time it's in it

Pot 1 is now the top 8 league winners. Pure disaster.

TheCitizen

super_furry wrote: »

Really good draws for Liverpool and United. Spurs got shafted, City should have enough to go through and Chelsea should walk their there group. Celtic are goosed.

Celtic will be happy with that draw, could've been a lot worse. They will aim to beat Anderlecht for 3rd spot and anything after that will be a bonus. Will fancy ourselves against anyone at Parkhead.

Tottenham won't qualify out of that Group, especially not with the attitude they have to European competition.

Shanotheslayer

Sam Hain wrote: »

Others as in every other team in the competition?

I'm sure the Maribor fans on Boards are furious.

cj maxx

Jayop wrote: »

Group A: Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow
Group B: Bayern Munich, Paris St-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic
Group C: Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Roma, Qarabag
Group Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting Clube de Portugal
Group E: Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor
Group F: Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord
Group G: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig
Group H: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham, Apoel Nicosia

Just marking the page

irishman86

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Wa??

Probably one that easiest groups.

I dont get where hes coming from at all
I thought they had drawn a hard group after the comment :pac:

Jayop

TheCitizen wrote: »

Celtic will be happy with that draw, could've been a lot worse. They will aim to beat Anderlecht for 3rd spot and anything after that will be a bonus. Will fancy ourselves against anyone at Parkhead.

Tottenham won't qualify out of that Group, especially not with the attitude they have to European competition.

Had you been in groups E, F or G there's a chance that you could have gotten to the next round though.

irishman86

blueser wrote: »

If that's the case, how do Shakhtar constantly get into Pot 1. I don't remember them ever doing anything of note in the CL. Is the Ukranian league (and the winning of it) more credible than, say, the Dutch or Belgian leagues?

Yes

Sam Hain

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I'm sure the Maribor fans on Boards are furious.

The Apoel fans are seemingly furious based on reports coming out of Cyprus.

blueser

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Isn't it ranked on how often you have been in the CL and how far the teams gets each time it's in it

But what have Shakhtar actually done in the CL to earn a place in pot 1? And if, as someone else has said, it's the winners of the top 8 leagues in Europe, I'm not sure how the Ukranian league would get such a high ranking. Ah well; it's not going to change now!

citytillidie

blueser wrote: »

But what have Shakhtar actually done in the CL to earn a place in pot 1? And if, as someone else has said, it's the winners of the top 8 leagues in Europe, I'm not sure how the Ukranian league would get such a high ranking. Ah well; it's not going to change now!

But it's not only CL, if Ukrainian teams also have a good run in the EL that will boost the league standings

dfx-

Shaktar, Napoli and Feyenoord are not the easiest draws for City if they're not switched on from the start. Plenty of room to slip up.

Jayop wrote: »

I said this a few days ago. The current system if having the top 8 league winners in pot 1 is a joke and leaves the draw totally unbalanced. It should be the top 3 league winners and then the 5 best teams by coefficient.

It's fine as it is. It rewards winning the big leagues and punishes teams who just hang around the top four.

blueser

blueser wrote: »

But what have Shakhtar actually done in the CL to earn a place in pot 1? And if, as someone else has said, it's the winners of the top 8 leagues in Europe, I'm not sure how the Ukranian league would get such a high ranking. Ah well; it's not going to change now!

Think jayop cleared up the way pot 1 works now. (League winners in Europe's top leagues)
Asuming all other pots work as before

Cookiemunster

blueser wrote: »

But what have Shakhtar actually done in the CL to earn a place in pot 1? And if, as someone else has said, it's the winners of the top 8 leagues in Europe, I'm not sure how the Ukranian league would get such a high ranking. Ah well; it's not going to change now!

Its quite simple really. Shakhtar (and the other Ukranian clubs) have out performed the teams from the likes of Belgium and the Netherlands in Europe over the last 5 seasons and now the Ukrainian league is ranked above them.

Jayop

dfx- wrote: »

Shaktar, Napoli and Feyenoord are not the easiest draws for City if they're not switched on from the start. Plenty of room to slip up.



It's fine as it is. It rewards winning the big leagues and punishes teams who just hang around the top four.

Hanging around top 4 like Barca?? Sorry, but coming second in LaLiga or the Premier League is a greater achievement that winning several of those pot 1 leagues.

Surely the whole thing would be aiming towards having a balanced draw, and having a team in pot 1 with a lower coefficient than most of those in pot 4 is a joke.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Think jayop cleared up the way pot 1 works now. (League winners in Europe's top leagues)
Asuming all other pots work as before

yep

blueser

That's me told.

citytillidie

Only the top 8 this year as Real won the league and CL last season. It is normally the top 7 and CL holders.

dfx-

Jayop wrote: »

Hanging around top 4 like Barca?? Sorry, but coming second in LaLiga or the Premier League is a greater achievement that winning several of those pot 1 leagues.

Surely the whole thing would be aiming towards having a balanced draw, and having a team in pot 1 with a lower coefficient than most of those in pot 4 is a joke.

It's the Champions League, you should be rewarded for winning the league, whether it's the Spanish or Portuguese or Russian Premier Divisions as long as it is top 8.

Leicester won the league, so they got the handy draw despite the co-efficient. Be consistently around the top four like Spurs, you get a dreadful draw.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think United and Liverpool will be the happiest of the UK-based teams. Spurs and Celtic got real stinkers. I think Chelsea's group looks tough but I'd expect them to come through it. Napoli will be tricky for City but I fancy them to win their group.

I think Group G looks fascinating: Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, Leipzig. All of those sides are capable of taking points off each other. I'd be reasonably confident predicting the qualifiers of the groups except for this one.

Rekop dog

It leads to a more exciting group stage than the way they did it a few years ago based purely on team seeding. I don't particularly agree with the fairness of it because this season and last there's been some really unbalanced groups based on level difficulty, but we're seeing more good games early which is less boring than it was.

Jayop

dfx- wrote: »

It's the Champions League, you should be rewarded for winning the league, whether it's the Spanish or Portuguese or Russian Premier Divisions as long as it is top 8.

Leicester won the league, so they got the handy draw despite the co-efficient. Be consistently around the top four like Spurs, you get a dreadful draw.

Leicester would still have been Pot1 last year by the old system and the one I mentioned.

Look United got a great group thanks to the system so I'm not complaining because of that, but it's a crap system.

Rekop dog

On club coefficients the 1st and 7th best team are together in one group this year, the 3rd and 5th in another and 4th and 7th are in another.

Not many competitions in sport with potential to pit the best teams against each other so early, it's a silly system.

internelligent

When are the fixture dates decided?

Richard Hillman

The new system is better than the old one but it still generally pans out in a dull fashion.

They should restructure it in a way that not all the second place teams qualify. The group winners get in automatically and the best seconds go through. My preference would be similar to the nfl system. 4 groups of 8. The highest 4 point scorers go straight to the Quarter Finals, with the other 4 winners playing the best 4 runners up in the second round.

I don't subscribe to "but some teams had harder groups". That's life. All teams are in the same seeding, they are technically balanced.

Seeing teams getting through after bad rounds is nauseating. I remember Zenit got in on 6 points before. 6/18 points is relegation form

sligeach

Celtic have got absolutely screwed once again.

Manchester United have gotten their obligatory handy group.

Spurs got a raw deal too.

Without a doubt, M U got by far the handiest draw.

Yawns

Sam Hain wrote: »

Others as in every other team in the competition?

Others as in the other English teams. Everyone else understands except one. I think people act thick on the soccer forum on purpose. Kinda like when driving to Dublin. Most people keep left on the M7/M9 , using the overtaking lane for it's purpose until they hit Naas then hog the middle lane. Just pure thick for the sake of it...

Jayop

sligeach wrote: »

Celtic have got absolutely screwed once again.

Manchester United have gotten their obligatory handy group.

Spurs got a raw deal too.

Without a doubt, M U got by far the handiest draw.

We're in Pot2 on merit. Of course we're going to get easier draws than Celtic Pot4, Liverpool/Spurs Pot3. That's how it works like.:rolleyes:

Father Hernandez

When are the fixtures announced for each group?

Nothing online as far as I can see

TheCitizen

sligeach wrote: »

Celtic have got absolutely screwed once again.

Manchester United have gotten their obligatory handy group.

Spurs got a raw deal too.

Without a doubt, M U got by far the handiest draw.

Celtic are happy with the draw.

A Dub in Glasgo

Celtic v PSG - Tuesday 12/09
Anderlecht v Celtic - Wed 27/09
Bayern v Celtic - Wed 18/10
Celtic v Bayern - Tue 31/10
PSG v Celtic - Wed 22/11
Celtic v Anderlecht - Tue 05/12

mickmackey1

I don't see why everybody is saying Spurs got a rotten draw, Dortmund are a sort of bellweather side you really should be beating if you want to take on the big boys.

sligeach

TheCitizen wrote: »

Celtic are happy with the draw.

In some respects, the hierarchy are. But Rodgers dream of Champions League football after Christmas is probably dead in the water already. I hope not.

NIMAN

Its time UEFA took a look at their seeding.

Likes of Benfica, Spartak Moscow in Group 1 is a joke.

If you are like Liverpool in Pot 3 you should end up getting a big team, not a relatively handy group. And I'll say nothing for Utd. If you asked Jose to handpick his own group it would have been hard to get better.

TheCitizen

sligeach wrote: »

In some respects, the hierarchy are. But Rodgers dream of Champions League football after Christmas is probably dead in the water already. I hope not.

Europa League after Christmas would be fine as well. That would be the target and finishing higher than 3rd would be a bonus. Celtic at home always formidable. They'll target a win over PSG in the first game.

deaddonkey15

sligeach wrote: »

Celtic have got absolutely screwed once again.

Manchester United have gotten their obligatory handy group.

Spurs got a raw deal too.

Without a doubt, M U got by far the handiest draw.

The only thing "handy" about United's group is having Benfica as top seeds and avoiding the big guns. The 3rd and 4th seeds are pretty much the standard you'd expect.

ArmaniJeanss

NIMAN wrote: »

Its time UEFA took a look at their seeding.

Likes of Benfica, Spartak Moscow in Group 1 is a joke.

Pot 1 is the Champions Pot, the other 3 pots are seeded by coefficient.
Its a new idea (2 years) so they did 'look at their seeding'.

Father Hernandez

NIMAN wrote: »

Its time UEFA took a look at their seeding.

Likes of Benfica, Spartak Moscow in Group 1 is a joke.

If you are like Liverpool in Pot 3 you should end up getting a big team, not a relatively handy group. And I'll say nothing for Utd. If you asked Jose to handpick his own group it would have been hard to get better.

The bitterness from some fans on this thread is gas.

They have the winners of the top 7/8 in pot 1 which is rightfully so as the top 7/8 leagues in Europe. The likes of Benfica and Spartak have earned their right to be in pot 1 by winning their domestic leagues.

It allows the 'weaker' teams to not come up against the likes of Real, Bayern, PSG right away giving them a decent chance of going further in the competition which is only right, more upsets.

Leicester last season were rightfully in pot 1 after winning the PL over 38 games. Pitting them against inevitable strong pot 1 & 2 teams could have seen them with no chance at all which is wrong IMO

Jayop

Father Hernandez wrote: »

The bitterness from some fans on this thread is gas.

They have the winners of the top 7/8 in pot 1 which is rightfully so as the top 7/8 leagues in Europe. The likes of Benfica and Spartak have earned their right to be in pot 1 by winning their domestic leagues.

It allows the 'weaker' teams to not come up against the likes of Real, Bayern, PSG right away giving them a decent chance of going further in the competition which is only right, more upsets.

Leicester last season were rightfully in pot 1 after winning the PL over 38 games. Pitting them against inevitable strong pot 1 & 2 teams could have seen them with no chance at all which is wrong IMO

The top 3 leagues winners always went to pot 1.

Francie Barrett

dfx- wrote: »

It's the Champions League, you should be rewarded for winning the league, whether it's the Spanish or Portuguese or Russian Premier Divisions as long as it is top 8.

Leicester won the league, so they got the handy draw despite the co-efficient. Be consistently around the top four like Spurs, you get a dreadful draw.

fair enough.

Father Hernandez

Father Hernandez wrote: »

The bitterness from some fans on this thread is gas.

They have the winners of the top 7/8 in pot 1 which is rightfully so as the top 7/8 leagues in Europe. The likes of Benfica and Spartak have earned their right to be in pot 1 by winning their domestic leagues.

It allows the 'weaker' teams to not come up against the likes of Real, Bayern, PSG right away giving them a decent chance of going further in the competition which is only right, more upsets.

Leicester last season were rightfully in pot 1 after winning the PL over 38 games. Pitting them against inevitable strong pot 1 & 2 teams could have seen them with no chance at all which is wrong IMO

Jayop wrote: »

The top 3 leagues winners always went to pot 1.

I know, I'm just using Leicester as an example as it was out of the ordinary for them to win it. If it were all based on coefficients for example, they'd have been in pot 4. The way they have it now is very fair

ArmaniJeanss

Jayop wrote: »

The top 3 leagues winners always went to pot 1.

That's not true at all, didn't City famously get some stinker draws from Pot 2 and Pot 3 the times they went in as reigning EPL champions.

Rekop dog

mickmackey1 wrote: »

I don't see why everybody is saying Spurs got a rotten draw, Dortmund are a sort of bellweather side you really should be beating if you want to take on the big boys.

Well they've been runners up and made the quarters on two other occasions in the last five years, better than any English side has faired in that period.

None of the English sides have done much in the last half decade or so to suggest any of them will have it too easy in their groups, they're all always predicted to come through their groups handily but hasn't panned out that way of late.

NIMAN

Father Hernandez wrote: »

The bitterness from some fans on this thread is gas.

They have the winners of the top 7/8 in pot 1 which is rightfully so as the top 7/8 leagues in Europe. The likes of Benfica and Spartak have earned their right to be in pot 1 by winning their domestic leagues.

It allows the 'weaker' teams to not come up against the likes of Real, Bayern, PSG right away giving them a decent chance of going further in the competition which is only right, more upsets.

Leicester last season were rightfully in pot 1 after winning the PL over 38 games. Pitting them against inevitable strong pot 1 & 2 teams could have seen them with no chance at all which is wrong IMO

I'm a neutral btw, so am not bitter. I just want to see good competitive groups, I have no vested interest in the draw other than that.

You say the draw allows 'weaker' teams the chance to avoid Real, Bayern, PSG right away?? how so? Those teams will always play teams weaker than them.

But the draw is set up now to allow a group of Real, Dortmund, Spurs, whereas you then have a muck group like Utds or Liverpools. Groups where from the off the teams from Pot 3 are likely favourites to win them. That shouldn't be possible.

I know winners of leagues deserve to be in Pot A and get special treatment, well tell that to Irish, Estonian, Welsh or Moldovan clubs who have to play 3 qualifiers to get anywhere near a Group knockout game.

Spartak Moscow are not a great side. Show me their CL record in the last 10 years that justify them getting a spot higher than Juve?

You know what I'd like to see, One big f*** off pot. Throw them all in, and draw them randomly. You take your chance. Odds are you'll never have Real, Barca, Munich, PSG in the one group. And it would be a lot more exciting than this every year.

klose

I think spurs could get second in their group myself, dortmund ain't the same team as a few years back still very good of course but them and spurs should be an open game. Of course spurs made an absolute balls of their group last year so that still has to be taken into consideration.
Liverpool and United certainly got the luck of the draw respectively, never ideal playing away in Moscow in freezing temperatures however.

NIMAN

klose wrote: »

I think spurs could get second in their group myself, dortmund ain't the same team as a few years back still very good of course but them and spurs should be an open game. Of course spurs made an absolute balls of their group last year so that still has to be taken into consideration.
Liverpool and United certainly got the luck of the draw respectively, never ideal playing away in Moscow in freezing temperatures however.

I'm sure they would have taken it ahead of playing in Munich, Madrid, or Turin.

Sure they can wear gloves!

klose

NIMAN wrote: »

You know what I'd like to see, One big f*** off pot. Throw them all in, and draw them randomly. You take your chance. Odds are you'll never have Real, Barca, Munich, PSG in the one group. And it would be a lot more exciting than this every year.

Would be interesting to see I suppose but would never work as surely tv rights is the big thing these days,i mean not only are there seeded groups but then there are restrictions on them i.e only 2 English teams per 4 groups eg a,b,c and d and e,f, g and h(different this year obviously with there being 5 English teams ), aren't Russian and Ukrainian teams still not allowed play in the group stage? I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of other technicities and restrictions nestled into the whole draw.

Dirty Dingus McGee

My predictions

Man Utd,Benfica
Bayern,PSG
Chelsea,Roma
Barca,Juve
Liverpool,Sevilla
Man City,Napoli
Porto,Leipzig
Real Madrid,Dortmund

Jayop

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

That's not true at all, didn't City famously get some stinker draws from Pot 2 and Pot 3 the times they went in as reigning EPL champions.

Yeah now you say it I think youre right

Guy:Incognito

No cl but el . I'm sure I'm missing something really obvious here but looking at the sky sports score app it says Milan won 1-0 away tonight and the tie finished 1-1. But it has them going through on away goals .

Is it a mistake and the won on penos?

Edit. Googling the results and apparently they won 7-0 on aggregate. Someone in sky having a serious issue it'd seem. I checked the scores with about 20 mins to go and it said 1-1 on aggregate so not just a mess up at full time.