2017/18 UEFA Champions League

spiralism

inforfun wrote: »

Can see that red card being scratched of his record.
Wasnt given for comments but for "touching" the referee.
Which Buffon didnt do but Douglas Costa.

https://twitter.com/chrismd10/status/984316325676929025

Could appeal it but don't see the point really. Costa should have walked if it was indeed him and it looks like it. That's the game you play when you crowd a ref though, i've no problem with him putting his foot down on that sort of ****e.

Benatia should have seen red though. Unbelievable to not even give a 2nd yellow, that's an obvious goalscoring opportunity and a straight red imo.

Knex*

spiralism wrote: »

They sledged him for a solid three minutes prior to him actually taking the spot kick. Juve fans whistling, real fans trying to drown them out which made it louder still and all that madness going on with Buffon in the background. He composed himself in the time it takes to take a deep breath and drilled a totally unsaveable penalty into the top corner. Buffon or not, that's never getting stopped

He's unreal at that. Remember him doing it last year when he was getting a green laser pointed at his eyes from the crowd.

He's about to go point it out to the ref, but the whistle is blown. You see him take a massive breath, all irritation gone from his face, pure focus, and he slots it away.

His drive, focus and determination is just incredible to watch. I'm not sure how people hate him, tbh.

mickmackey1

Knex. wrote: »

He's unreal at that. Remember him doing it last year when he was getting a green laser pointed at his eyes from the crowd.

He's about to go point it out to the ref, but the whistle is blown. You see him take a massive breath, all irritation gone from his face, pure focus, and he slots it away.

His drive, focus and determination is just incredible to watch. I'm not sure how people hate him, tbh.

Take it easy, he's missed loads of penalties down the years. Not to mention the 473 free kicks he's taken since one went in.

irishman86

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Take it easy, he's missed loads of penalties down the years. Not to mention the 473 free kicks he's taken since one went in.

What utter drivel

The Golden Miller

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Take it easy, he's missed loads of penalties down the years. Not to mention the 473 free kicks he's taken since one went in.

It's unbelievable he's still taking them, that on such big occasions and important moments, Real win a free in a dangerous area and all the players and everyone in the stadium know it's a wasted great chance before Ronaldo even takes it.

spiralism

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It's unbelievable he's still taking them, that on such big occasions and important moments, Real win a free in a dangerous area and all the players and everyone in the stadium know it's a wasted great chance before Ronaldo even takes it.

He's definitely taken a step back from that lately. The one free they got in a threatening position yesterday he didn't take it. Pretty sure Isco did.

irishman86

spiralism wrote: »

He's definitely taken a step back from that lately. The one free they got in a threatening position yesterday he didn't take it. Pretty sure Isco did.

That doesnt fit the hate Cristiano narrative though

NIMAN

TheCitizen wrote: »

Actually Oliver didn't get everything right. Benatia was on a yellow so should have been sent off. The red should have went to him.

Maybe his foul was deserving of another yellow?

Not all fouls are automatic yellows.

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

That doesnt fit the hate Cristiano narrative though

Are you suggesting he doesn't take the vast vast majority of them still? Why is such an abysmal free taker, in which he's counting on the law of averages to fluke one ever now and then, still taking free's at all?

NIMAN

Billy86 wrote: »

I didn't get to see the game and kept hearing last night how Juve were robbed and everything was rigged... then I saw the penalty decision. How is that being robbed? Am I missing some context here or something?

How the game went:

Juve played well, score 3 goals against a poor Madrid side to bring the tie level and looked like it was heading into extra time.

Then Madrid have a player fouled in the box in injury time, a penalty is awarded and every analyst and journo seems to think this was the correct decision.

During this a Juve player manhandles the ref, and is rightly sent off. In this case most sane people agree the red card was correct, only dissenters are those who think because the player is a generally nice guy and near the end of his career that he should be allowed to get away with this (Tend to find these same folk think Zidane didn't deserve a red card either when he nearly broke Matterazzi's chest with a heat butt in a WC Final).

Madrid score the penalty. Game over. Madrid through, just about. Juve played really well and it was a cruel loss for them, but there wasn't that much controversy really.

super_furry

inforfun wrote: »

^^^^

Enjoy:

That's a crazy stat. Never going to happen but I'd love to see how Pep would get on without a budget or taking over an already established giant team.

Lining him up with a job like Benitez has had at Newcastle would be fascinating.

The Golden Miller

super_furry wrote: »

That's a crazy stat. Never going to happen but I'd love to see how Pep would get on without a budget or taking over an already established giant team.

Lining him up with a job like Benitez has had at Newcastle would be fascinating.

Trying to impose a tiki-taka game style on a lesser team without real quality, would mean they'd struggle to break most teams down. He'd get a team motivated and pressing high, but ultimately alot of running around and sideways passing to no real end

NIMAN

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Trying to impose a tiki-taka game style a lesser team without real quality, would mean they'd struggle to break most teams down. He'd get a team motivated and pressing high, but ultimately alot of running around and sideways passing to no real end

Sounds like Man City with Sterling up front.

The Golden Miller

NIMAN wrote: »

Sounds like Man City with Sterling up front.

Sounds like any team he's managed or will manage bar Barca.

NIMAN

There would be an argument that an average manager could have achieved what Pep did with Barca, Bayern and Man City, with unlimited funds to spend and having started off with the array of talent at Barca.

Outside of Barca, he has failed fairly spectacularly in the CL with both Bayern and City, despite having decent squads and pots of cash. For me winning the leagues wasn't really that much of an achievement.

CL is where its at. Its what top managers measure themselves against in the last decade or so. Thats why Jose is often seen as a busted flush these days. Pep isn't helping his 'genius' tag much the last few years.

elefant

Knex. wrote: »

His drive, focus and determination is just incredible to watch. I'm not sure how people hate him, tbh.

Only somebody very blinkered couldn't appreciate Ronaldo for those attributes, and many of his other incredible qualities.

These obviously aren't the things people dislike about him though. I imagine most people who aren't fans of Ronaldo don't hate him either.

NIMAN

After watching Madrid last night, and seeing how poor they are when Ramos isn't in the team, I now fancy Munich as my favourites for the CL.

The Golden Miller

NIMAN wrote: »

There would be an argument that an average manager could have achieved what Pep did with Barca, Bayern and Man City, with unlimited funds to spend and having started off with the array of talent at Barca.

Outside of Barca, he has failed fairly spectacularly in the CL with both Bayern and City, despite having decent squads and pots of cash. For me winning the leagues wasn't really that much of an achievement.

CL is where its at. Its what top managers measure themselves against in the last decade or so. Thats why Jose is often seen as a busted flush these days. Pep isn't helping his 'genius' tag much the last few years.

His style really compliments how Barca play, and you could argue his only success in Europe has been down to Messi. Messi gives you that cutting edge in teams who dominate possession, without him the attack can be very blunt. We've seen his Barca team play without Messi the odd time in the league, still great but without a real potent offensive threat to really open a 10 man defense, as was the case with Bayern the last few years.

So ye, he still has alot to prove in my eye's. He'll improve a good team in the sense they'll now completely dominate matches, but once the standard is raised at the tail end of the CL he'll continue to fall short

GavRedKing

NIMAN wrote: »

After watching Madrid last night, and seeing how poor they are when Ramos isn't in the team, I now fancy Munich as my favourites for the CL.

After the QFs, everyone will rightfully think they can win it and wont fear any of the other teams.

The "best" final would be Real v Bayern but I'd like to see Roma win it.

spiralism

GavRedKing wrote: »

After the QFs, everyone will rightfully think they can win it and wont fear any of the other teams.

The "best" final would be Real v Bayern but I'd like to see Roma win it.

The best final would be one that doesn't have Liverpool in it imo. **** that noise, half the country's heads would be done in.

inforfun

No warm fuzzy feelings for any of the 4 so let Robben have it.
He deserves that after being made look like a fool in the Dutch team by Danny Blind so he has no WC to go to.

ERG89

NIMAN wrote: »

There would be an argument that an average manager could have achieved what Pep did with Barca, Bayern and Man City, with unlimited funds to spend and having started off with the array of talent at Barca.

Outside of Barca, he has failed fairly spectacularly in the CL with both Bayern and City, despite having decent squads and pots of cash. For me winning the leagues wasn't really that much of an achievement.

CL is where its at. Its what top managers measure themselves against in the last decade or so. Thats why Jose is often seen as a busted flush these days. Pep isn't helping his 'genius' tag much the last few years.

He's definetly improved City and some of the players there. Sterling, Dr Bruyne especially & even Silva who was great previously is playing like he's 26 again.
Bayern though I felt he wasted Lahm in midfield and had Rafinha who is utterly average replace him at right back. Bernat at left back instead of Alaba was another one that stunted the latter as a player imo.
Robben & Ribery were both pushing their mid 30's when he left and I always thought he wasted their last few years at the top as they were outstanding under Heynckes previously. Playing Javi Martinez at centre back too was another blunder for a player who flourished under Jupp.
I often feel like he overcomplicates basic things and if you don't buy into his philosophy your dead man walking which is the detriment of the side if they need to approach a situation differently. You kinda saw this with the way he treated Aguero until the last few months tbh.

Regarding the Champions League I dunno personally I don't think Zidane is a very good manager but he's been damn successful in that tournament. Like Ancelotti he entrusts his players which works well with an experienced side but for instance if he was in charge of Atletico or Juve they wouldn't make it to the finals they did imo

TheCitizen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It wouldn't have been an either /or though, I doubt Buffon would have acted any better had benetia been sent off. It would have just meant Juve down to 9.

It could have been. If the ref had brandished a red for Benatia as he should have then that would've stopped Buffon and the rest of them in their tracks.

TheCitizen

inforfun wrote: »

Can see that red card being scratched of his record.
Wasnt given for comments but for "touching" the referee.
Which Buffon didnt do but Douglas Costa.

https://twitter.com/chrismd10/status/984316325676929025

Two mistakes by the ref so. Benatia should've got a second yellow and it was Costa that actually manhandled the ref with a dig. Buffon left to take the blame for it 'cos he was the main man standing there berating the ref.

SlickRic

the reality with Pep is that his style, with the quality of players he always has at his disposal at the clubs he's managed, absolutely mauls average teams. it just mauls them.

if your team does not have the quality on the ball to keep it, and if your team doesn't have the tactical nous to press them properly, which most average teams don't, you're done for. it's death by a thousand paper cuts. if they don't get you early, you'll inevitably get tired late, and they'll do you then.

he is an utterly magnificent coach, but there is a glaring deficiency there when it comes to games against the biggest teams in Europe.

when his teams have gone out in the last several years in the Champions League, I think his team wasn't mauled defensively just once.

you cannot underestimate how lucky he was to have Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and ALSO Puyol. you had a bull at the back who could keep the door shut. Xavi and Iniesta could walk rings around everyone they were that good (the coach has a huge role to play, but without those 2 once in a generation talents, you can only be so dominant). then you had Messi. Pep still had to put them all in the right positions, obviously, but he had every tool at his disposal.

he dominated the German League. fair play to him. not to be underestimated, but again, his players and his techniques meant average teams just can't cope.

Pep's problem blatantly comes when he's against a team that can keep the ball constructively, and put his defence and midfield under pressure with the press, and can be clinical when needed. Liverpool have done it 3 times now to City. Utd did it in the 2nd half at the weekend. Pep's teams have been destroyed at times by Bayern, Real and even Monaco last season, letting in far too many goals.

he is vulnerable.

I'm aware this is holding him to the highest possible standard, but that is where he is operating. he earns £15m a year, and was expressly brought in to deliver the Champions League, and he's not meeting that brief, and tbh, has failed badly for a number of years now at City and Bayern.

MD1990

SlickRic wrote: »

the reality with Pep is that his style, with the quality of players he always has at his disposal at the clubs he's managed, absolutely mauls average teams. it just mauls them.

if your team does not have the quality on the ball to keep it, and if your team doesn't have the tactical nous to press them properly, which most average teams don't, you're done for. it's death by a thousand paper cuts. if they don't get you early, you'll inevitably get tired late, and they'll do you then.

he is an utterly magnificent coach, but there is a glaring deficiency there when it comes to games against the biggest teams in Europe.

when his teams have gone out in the last several years in the Champions League, I think his team wasn't mauled defensively just once.

you cannot underestimate how lucky he was to have Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and ALSO Puyol. you had a bull at the back who could keep the door shut. Xavi and Iniesta could walk rings around everyone they were that good (the coach has a huge role to play, but without those 2 once in a generation talents, you can only be so dominant). then you had Messi. Pep still had to put them all in the right positions, obviously, but he had every tool at his disposal.

he dominated the German League. fair play to him. not to be underestimated, but again, his players and his techniques meant average teams just can't cope.

Pep's problem blatantly comes when he's against a team that can keep the ball constructively, and put his defence and midfield under pressure with the press, and can be clinical when needed. Liverpool have done it 3 times now to City. Utd did it in the 2nd half at the weekend. Pep's teams have been destroyed at times by Bayern, Real and even Monaco last season, letting in far too many goals.

he is vulnerable.

I'm aware this is holding him to the highest possible standard, but that is where he is operating. he earns £15m a year, and was expressly brought in to deliver the Champions League, and he's not meeting that brief, and tbh, has failed badly for a number of years now at City and Bayern.

If Man City got Van Dijk that would have been a huge signing.

Thank god we got him.

Mr.Micro

TheCitizen wrote: »

Two mistakes by the ref so. Benatia should've got a second yellow and it was Costa that actually manhandled the ref with a dig. Buffon left to take the blame for it 'cos he was the main man standing there berating the ref.

A very disappointing end to a great game. Agree.... Oliver got scared and reacted accordingly. Madrid got lucky.

TheCitizen

Mr.Micro wrote: »

A very disappointing end to a great game. Agree.... Oliver got scared and reacted accordingly. Madrid got lucky.

I think it's important to make the point that the ref made a couple of big mistakes under pressure. Buffon perhaps has a case for misidentification for the red.

Gbear

SlickRic wrote: »

the reality with Pep is that his style, with the quality of players he always has at his disposal at the clubs he's managed, absolutely mauls average teams. it just mauls them.

if your team does not have the quality on the ball to keep it, and if your team doesn't have the tactical nous to press them properly, which most average teams don't, you're done for. it's death by a thousand paper cuts. if they don't get you early, you'll inevitably get tired late, and they'll do you then.

he is an utterly magnificent coach, but there is a glaring deficiency there when it comes to games against the biggest teams in Europe.

when his teams have gone out in the last several years in the Champions League, I think his team wasn't mauled defensively just once.

you cannot underestimate how lucky he was to have Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and ALSO Puyol. you had a bull at the back who could keep the door shut. Xavi and Iniesta could walk rings around everyone they were that good (the coach has a huge role to play, but without those 2 once in a generation talents, you can only be so dominant). then you had Messi. Pep still had to put them all in the right positions, obviously, but he had every tool at his disposal.

he dominated the German League. fair play to him. not to be underestimated, but again, his players and his techniques meant average teams just can't cope.

Pep's problem blatantly comes when he's against a team that can keep the ball constructively, and put his defence and midfield under pressure with the press, and can be clinical when needed. Liverpool have done it 3 times now to City. Utd did it in the 2nd half at the weekend. Pep's teams have been destroyed at times by Bayern, Real and even Monaco last season, letting in far too many goals.

he is vulnerable.

I'm aware this is holding him to the highest possible standard, but that is where he is operating. he earns £15m a year, and was expressly brought in to deliver the Champions League, and he's not meeting that brief, and tbh, has failed badly for a number of years now at City and Bayern.

While I'd agree, there's sometimes a lack of weight given to luck in these circumstances.

Take lord and saviour Cristiano Ronaldo after last night.
If Alex Sandro holds his line, ok maybe Real still win on the night or after it goes to penalties (they were on top at that stage, so it's not unlikely), but it was very small margins.

Salah's goal in the first leg could've easily been ruled out, and when them scoring the first goal would've been a huge deal, or even scoring any goal at all, it was a huge momentum shift.
Liverpool still might've won the tie, of course, but it was very very close despite the 5-1 aggregate scoreline suggesting otherwise.

Go back further, to Real's first CL win in ages where they equalise right at the death with a Ramos header. They were minutes away from this eulogised Zidane era never coming to pass.

With really good teams, there can be huge momentum shifts, and if you switch off for a short period of time, another good team can just put you away.

There's huge variability in knockout football. Over a relatively small sample size, even just by dumb luck you can get the sorts of results Guardiola has seen.

NIMAN

ERG89 wrote: »

He's definetly improved City and some of the players there. Sterling, Dr Bruyne especially & even Silva who was great previously is playing like he's 26 again.

Again, they have looked fantastic in the league, when it got to the crunch, did they impress?

OK so he has Sterling scoring league goals - but how many against the cannon fodder of the EPL?

If Sterling was a natural goalscorer, City would have sailed past Liverpool and Utd in recent games. He's not and they were beaten in both.

I would also say De Bruyne only played well for 45min v Liverpool. 1st half of 2nd leg. Apart from that, didn't hurt Liverpool too much.

He needs to be getting his players to be doing it in the CL when it matters, not against Huddersfield or West Brom.

SlickRic

Gbear wrote: »

While I'd agree, there's sometimes a lack of weight given to luck in these circumstances.

Take lord and saviour Cristiano Ronaldo after last night.
If Alex Sandro holds his line, ok maybe Real still win on the night or after it goes to penalties (they were on top at that stage, so it's not unlikely), but it was very small margins.

Salah's goal in the first leg could've easily been ruled out, and when them scoring the first goal would've been a huge deal, or even scoring any goal at all, it was a huge momentum shift.
Liverpool still might've won the tie, of course, but it was very very close despite the 5-1 aggregate scoreline suggesting otherwise.

Go back further, to Real's first CL win in ages where they equalise right at the death with a Ramos header. They were minutes away from this eulogised Zidane era never coming to pass.

With really good teams, there can be huge momentum shifts, and if you switch off for a short period of time, another good team can just put you away.

There's huge variability in knockout football. Over a relatively small sample size, even just by dumb luck you can get the sorts of results Guardiola has seen.

while true, there is also no such thing as an unlucky coach.

Turtwig

I don't for one second buy the argument that Pep couldn't do it with weaker teams. You only need to look at his strongest first XI for Barca B to see that he's a quality coach of weaker teams too.

squawka wrote:

Goalkeeper: Oier Olazabal
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Oier-1024x683.jpg



Age: 27
Current club: Granada CF
2007/08 apps: 31
Career path: Barcelona, Granada CF, Real Sociedad

Oier was promoted to Barcelona’s first-team in 2008 and made one La Liga appearance for the Blaugrana. He joined Granada in 2014.

Right Back: David Corcoles
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Corcoles.jpg



Age: 31
Current club: Racing Santander
2007/08 apps: 30
Career path: Hercules, Valencia B, Barcelona B, Recreativo, Albacete, Racing Santander

Signed from Valencia’s B team in 2007 for £425k, Corcoles made 65 appearances for Barcelona B before leaving in 2009.

Centre Back: Chico Flores
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Chico-1024x790.jpg



Age: 29
Current club: Lekhwiya SC
2007/08 apps: 10
Career path: Cadiz, Portuense, Barcelona B, Almeria, Genoa, Mallorca, Swansea City, Lekhwiya SC

Yep, that one. Flores played only ten times after joining on loan but he has enjoyed a good career since. When he’s not winding up Sam Allardyce, he can be found playing his football in Qatar.

Centre Back: Marc Valiente
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Valiente-1024x710.jpg



Age: 29
Current club: Maccabi Haifa
2007/08 apps: 29
Career path: Barcelona B, Sevilla B, Valladolid, Maccabi Haifa

Valiente never played for the first team but carved out a successful career nonetheless, featuring over 150 times for Valladolid, before moving to Israel in 2015.

Left Back: Victor Sanchez
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Victor-Sanchez-1024x681.jpg



Age: 29
Current club: Espanyol
2007/08 apps: 30
Career path: Barcelona B, Barcelona, Xerez, Getafe, Neuchatel Xamax, Espanyol

Sanchez has made his name in Catalonia but at Espanyol rather than Barcelona. He made 14 appearances for Barcelona in their treble-winning season before moving on for regular football.

Defensive Midfield: Dani Toribio
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/dani-toribion.jpg



Age: 28
Current club: Alcorcon
2007/08 apps: 17
Career path: Barcelona B, Terrassa, Malaga, Ponferradina, Villarreal B, Murcia, Alaves, Alcorcon

The versatile midfielder is now playing for Alcorcon in the second-tier.

Defensive Midfield: Dimas Delgado
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Dimas-Delgado-1024x641.jpg



Age: 33
Current club: Western Sydney Wanderers
2007/08 apps: 23
Career path: Gramenet, Barcelona B, Numancia, Cartagena, Recreativo, Western Sydney Wanderers

Played an important role in the title win but found the path to the first-team blocked. Now seeing out his career in Australia.

Defensive Midfield: Xavi Torres
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Xavi-Torres-1024x784.jpg



Age: 29
Current club: Sporting Gijon
2007/08 apps: 28
Career path: Villarreal B, Alicante, Barcelona B, Malaga, Levante, Getafe, Betis, Sporting Gijon

A composed central midfielder, Torres has spent the majority of his career in La Liga, most notably with Levante between 2010/12.

Central Midfield: Sergio Busquets
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/reu_1438365.jpg



Age: 28
Current club: Barcelona
2007/08 apps: 23
Career path: Barcelona B, Barcelona

Promoted to the first-team following Guardiola’s appointment, Busquets replaced Yaya Toure in midfield and has become a mainstay of the side ever since.

Central Midfield: Abraham Gonzalez
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Abraham-Gonzalez-1024x714.jpg



Age: 31
Current club: UNAM
2007/08 apps: 37
Career path: Terrassa, Barcelona B, Cadiz, Gimnastic, Ponferradina, Alcorcon, Espanyol, UNAM

A key member of the side, Abraham Gonzalez, currently plays in the Mexican top-flight.

Central Midfield: Thiago Alcantara
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GettyImages-173555107-1024x707.jpg



Age: 25
Current club: Bayern Munich
2007/08 apps: 5
Career path: Barcelona B, Barcelona, Bayern Munich

Drafted in for a handful of appearances after impressing for the Juvenil side, Thiago has gone on to become one of the finest playmakers in Europe, albeit at Bayern Munich rather than Barcelona.

Attacking Midfield: Victor Vazquez
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Vazquez-1024x698.jpg



Age: 29
Current club: Cruz Azul
2007/08 apps: 22
Career path: Barcelona B, Barcelona, Club Brugge, Cruz Azul

Regarded as one of Barcelona’s finest talents, injuries hampered Vazquez’s progress. He played three times for Barca and scored on his Champions League debut before signing for Club Brugge in 2011 and then Cruz Azul last year.

Left Wing: Jeffren
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/jeffren22.jpg



Age: 28
Current club: Eupen
2007/08 apps: 27
Career path: Barcelona B, Barcelona, Sporting CP, Valladollid, Eupen

Will always be enshrined in Barcelona folklore after scoring in the historic 5-0 win over Real Madrid. Now playing in the Belgian top flight.

Left Wing: Iago Falque
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Falque-1024x703.jpg



Age: 26
Current club: Torino (loan)
2007/08 apps: 17
Career path: Barcelona B, Juventus, Tottenham, Southampton, Almeria, Rayo Vallecano, Genoa, Roma, Torino

Still only 26, Falque has been extremely well-travelled but seems to have finally settled in Italy.

Right Wing: Pedro Rodriguez
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Pedro-1024x771.jpg



Age: 29
Current club: Chelsea
2007/08 apps: 37
Career path: Barcelona B, Barcelona, Chelsea

Similarly to Busquets, Pedro established himself as a key member of the first-team in the 2008/09 season. He joined Chelsea in 2015 after slipping down the pecking order and won the Premier League in 2017.

Centre Forward: Gai Assulin
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Assulin-1024x725.jpg


Age: 25
Current club: Sabadell
2007/08 apps: 22
Career path: Barcelona B, Manchester City, Brighton, Racing Santander, Granada, Hercules, Mallorca, Hapoel Tel-Aviv, Sabadell

Touted as a future star of the game, Assulin’s career has taken a nosedive since he left Barcelona in 2010. He’s playing in the Spanish second-tier with Sabadell.

Centre Forward: Emilio Guerra
image: http://www.squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/guerra-1024x652.jpg



Age: 34
Current club: Velez C.F.
2007/08 apps: 26
Career path: Espanyol B, Vilassar Mar, Figueres, Reus, Palamos, Linares, Sabadell, Granada B, Zaragoza B, Barcelona B, Atletico Madrid B, Atletico Ciudad, Castellon, Benidorm, Puertollano, Malaga B, Kavala, Sageata, Academica, Velez CF

The definition of a journeyman. Guerra is playing for his 20th club Velez C.F in the Spanish lower leagues.


Source

Criticisms I have of Pep is his conservative approach to away legs. His game is mentally ridiculously taxing and players frequently start to burn out mentally from it as the season goes on. Physical exhaustion plays a role too as they no longer play with the same intensity but reading interviews from previous players it's clear their heads were the first to fry. For knockout footballs basics and getting those right is the most important. Sophistication leads to more potential for errors. Otamendi has swapped from his usual position. City played an unorthodox system in the first leg against pool. All these things help to make errors occur.

At Barca he was absolutely blessed with technical and positional genius that could change shape and roles as a given match evolved. Since leaving Barca above all he has lost Busquest and Messi. The former I think is actually more intrinsically important to his defensive organisations against transistions.

citytillidie

Bayern München (GER)
UEFA club ranking: 2
This season: P10 W8 D1 L1 F23 A8
Possible first-choice XI: Neuer; Kimmich, Hummels, Boateng, Alaba; Martínez, Vidal, Thiago; Ribéry, Müller, Lewandowski
Top scorer: Robert Lewandowski (5)
Current league position: Champions
Last semi-final: 2015/16, 2-2 v Atlético (lost on away goals)
European Cup semi-final record: W10 L8
European Cup best: 5x winners (2013)
Top #UCLfantasy scorer: Robert Lewandowski (44)
Why they might win it: Jupp Heynckes is in charge. Enough said.

Liverpool (ENG)
UEFA club ranking: 25
This season: P10 W6 D4 L0 F33 A7
Possible first-choice XI: Karius; Alexander-Arnold, Lovren, Van Dijk, Robertson; Oxlade-Chamberlain, Henderson, Milner; Mané, Firmino, Salah
Top scorer: Roberto Firmino, Mohamed Salah (8)
Current league position: 3rd
Last semi-final: 2007/08, lost 4-3 v Chelsea
European Cup semi-final record: W7 L2
European Cup best: 5x winners (most recently 2005)
Top #UCLfantasy scorer: Roberto Firmino (65)
Why they might win it: The sheer force of momentum behind them.

Real Madrid (ESP)
UEFA club ranking: 1
This season: P10 W7 D1 L2 F26 A12
Possible first-choice XI: Navas; Carvajal, Ramos, Varane, Marcelo; Casemiro, Modrić, Kroos, Isco; Benzema, Ronaldo
Top scorer: Cristiano Ronaldo (15)
Current league position: 4th
Last semi-final: 2016/17, won 4-2 v Atlético
European Cup semi-final record: W15 L13
European Cup best: 12x winners (most recently 2017)
Top #UCLfantasy scorer: Cristiano Ronaldo (84)
Why they might win it: When was the last time they didn't?!

Roma (ITA)
UEFA club ranking: 21
This season: P10 W5 D2 L3 F15 A12
Possible first-choice XI: Alisson Becker; Florenzi, Manolas, Fazio, Kolarov; Strootman, De Rossi, Nainggolan; Cengiz Ünder, Džeko, Perotti
Top scorer: Edin Džeko (6)
Current league position: 4th
Last semi-final: 1983/84, won 3-2 v Dundee United
European Cup semi-final record: W1 L0
European Cup best: semi-finals (1983/84)
Top #UCLfantasy scorer: Edin Džeko (54)
Why they might win it: There's no discounting a team that did THAT to Barcelona!

Skylinehead

citytillidie wrote: »

Roma (ITA)

Last semi-final: 1983/84, won 3-2 v Dundee United

European Cup best: semi-finals (1983/84)

That can't be right!

citytillidie

Skylinehead wrote: »

That can't be right!

Maybe UEFA thinks winning a semi final is better than saying runner up

LuckyLloyd

Over a large sample size of domestic football we can conclude that Pep Guardiola's teams have been historically great (there are various records and stats that can back this up), in three different leagues. The counter argument is about context: how good his starting squads were; how much money he was awarded to improve them; how good the fundamental structures at the club were; how truly competitive each of the three leagues were during his time there. I'm not sure how compelling those arguments are really, as the clubs concerned have been successful or unsuccessful by times under different managers. Nothing is guaranteed, and the level of dominance at times stretches the assertion that Pep is a victor of circumstance.

******

The European Cup is a different animal, and more difficult to draw strong conclusions from. Sample size is a factor when looking at it. You have 180 minutes against each side (and 90 in the final), and those sides are generally the best in Europe. So each tie is a relatively short period of time on the pitch meaning the variance can be huge.

His record overall is 16 - 7 in two legged ties (for a comparison, Rafael Benitez is 28 - 9). Of 9 outings in the European Cup, he's won 2, reached the semis 5 times, lost in the QF once and the second round once. Really, it's a very good record overall*.

The defeats in 2010 (Inter), 2012 (Chelsea) and 2016 (Athletico) were all decided by a hair's breath. The margins for another three finals are very very thin. That is countered somewhat by the 2009 victory over Chelsea of course, but it's an easy way to understand the first point: the variance involved here makes it difficult to make super strong statements.

What we can say however, is that three of his last five CL campaigns have ended with somewhat humiliating defeats. A 5 - 0 drubbing by Real in 2014, conceding 6 goals to unfancied Monaco last year, getting thumped 5 - 1 by Liverpool this week. We can also say that - variance accepted - he has gotten further away from the Cup with each job change.

*And I think the problem here is that Pep is supposed to be the GOAT, or is argued to be the GOAT on the basis of how good that Barca side were, how revolutionary they are considered and on the basis of the various league records set across Spain, Germany and now England this year. And so, his record as is leaves one underwhelmed in that context.

NIMAN

So in summary, he's a bit cr@p in the CL in recent years?

Turtwig

The thing is though if you pick any manager they more often than not do not win the Champions League - and they all have had exceptionally good teams. Zidane is currently the big exception to this but then again he's not even competed in the UCL five times yet.

Hector Savage

Does AndersonIsGod post here anymore ?

Tom Mann Centuria

Hector Savage wrote: »

Does AndersonIsGod post here anymore ?

No.

The Talking Bread

TheCitizen wrote: »

Mr.Micro wrote: »

A very disappointing end to a great game. Agree.... Oliver got scared and reacted accordingly. Madrid got lucky.

I think it's important to make the point that the ref made a couple of big mistakes under pressure. Buffon perhaps has a case for misidentification for the red.

No he doesn't! !!

beya2009

I wonder if fatigue was an issue for Man City and Barca although I cannot accept that as a legit excuse for their shortcomings in UCL. 3 of the 4 semi-finalists are well behind in their domestic leagues.

NIMAN

I see Del Piero more or less said that Buffon was wrong in what he said and that in hindsight he'll probably reconsider his comments.

TomSweeney

ERG89 wrote: »

I love Brian Kerr pronouncing Juan Jesus as Jaysus

Hector Savage

Pity about AndersonIsGod , I didn't agree with him but liked his posts for the entertainment value at least ...

SlickRic

i'd be flabbergasted if Bayern and Real drew each other.

bucketybuck

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd be flabbergasted if Bayern and Real drew each other.

Its a 1/3 chance that they will be paired together, why would you be flabbergasted?

TomSweeney

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its a 1/3 chance that they will be paired together, why would you be flabbergasted?

Think there might be a hint of sarcasm in the post ...

SlickRic

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its a 1/3 chance that they will be paired together, why would you be flabbergasted?

i just have a feeling they'll be kept apart by 'fate'.

bucketybuck

SlickRic wrote: »

i just have a feeling they'll be kept apart by 'fate'.

There was enough conspiracy nonsense posted when Madrid were given a stonewall penalty without people now starting into the "draw is fixed" scenarios.