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Is North Korea a victim of western propaganda?

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    i'm so sorry i watched that.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    but you have looked at one image and decided it is the absolute truth and anything else is a fake. not very critical.
    No, I weighed up the likelihood of an Ivy League academic photooshopping a photo in a book that wasn't about North Korea, and came to the conclusion that there are probably power outages at night in North Korea, which are widely reported on, and that claims of no electricity are indeed fake.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    I found this one on a bbc article, 86 vs 96

    _85983832_koreasatelite.jpg

    link


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    No, I weighed up the likelihood of an Ivy League academic photooshopping a photo in a book that wasn't about North Korea, and came to the conclusion that there are probably power outages at night in North Korea, which are widely reported on, and that claims of no electricity are indeed fake.

    but you have no idea where he got that image. he might not even be aware himself if it is has been doctored. the image is definitely a composite so who knows what else has been done with it. you need to think critically about your sources.

    ETA you also dont know WHEN that pic was taken.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    NORTH KOREA BEST KOREA!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I've no doubt that many 'Fake News' stories are circulated about NK in the west.

    Everyone in the world does propaganda. We're just more subtle about it here in the west.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    No, I weighed up the likelihood of an Ivy League academic photooshopping a photo in a book that wasn't about North Korea,
    But the picture could be photoshopped for reasons that have nothing to do with N.Korea. Like I said the last time the picture was likely composed of lots of little photos due to it's size. The way the photos were taken and compiled may make the light polution look worse than it really is making the light sources seem bigger than they really are. Maybe the author said I want the planet to look like it's lit up to highlight modern cities for my architecture book. Other photos show that N.Korea had more light pollution in the past so the picture could be from that time and not representative of how it is today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    I'm not convinced by the photo showing the bright lights in NK. The youtube link posted earlier contains shots of the wider picture, which shows the world. The level of light intensity doesn't seem right to me. India (all of it) is much brighter than the east coast of Australia, for example. Also the intensity at the southern edge of the Sahara seems impossible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭Kolido


    biko wrote: »
    Screenshot_from_2017-06-19_15-41-19.png

    Have a feeling thats fake, I doubt the entire coastline is covered with sandy beaches!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    I think that ATNM needs to be sent to a reeducation camp to stop him asking the 'wrong questions'.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's from Vishaan Chakrabarti's book, A Country of Cities.

    As you have the book in front of you: what is the copyright on the image? The date the photo was taken? The photographer? Camera type? etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I'm not convinced by the photo showing the bright lights in NK. The youtube link posted earlier contains shots of the wider picture, which shows the world. The level of light intensity doesn't seem right to me. India (all of it) is much brighter than the east coast of Australia, for example. Also the intensity at the southern edge of the Sahara seems impossible.

    maxresdefault.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    The North Koreans have a truly archaic electricity network, so even though power can be produced, it can't get to where it needs to go most of the time.They use a hybrid of old Chinese and Soviet Union switching gear, most of which can't be readily upgraded.

    Say what you want about the Irish Free State, but they had the foresight to invest heavily in a electricity generation and distribution network that was far ahead of its time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I watch a show on North Korea filmed inside the country. People started praising a picture of Kim for restoring their sight. The doctor that came over and performed the operations was ignoring him.
    Now you could say that they were putting on a show but for whom? Was it for the western media or Kim? If it was to show the western media then why would they think it makes them look well? If for Kim why did he think this looks well?

    They went to a "museum" and it showed Kim had invented loads of things which we know he didn't.

    There is no need for any special propaganda it is visible from what they want and allow people to see.

    There was a massive famine. There is insane stories because they have done insane things and made up stories will enter the world but that is all around us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭LadyMacBeth_


    I can kind of see your point, OP. I watched a documentary about NK and it seems as if it is difficult at times to distinguish between fact and western propaganda. Listening religiously to what the US has to say is a bit like believing everything you hear on fox news, there is an agenda there. That being said though, maybe the more ludicrous stories about haircuts aren't true but from the evidence that we do have it seems like a very cruel and oppressive regime to live under.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,731 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    For all we know that photo is of what the author projects North Korea (and everywhere else) could/would be like if cities were developed in the way that the author wished, rather than what they are now.

    OP have you ever seen the book, do you know the context of the photo, or are you simply working of a photo of a page of the book?


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can kind of see your point, OP. I watched a documentary about NK and it seems as if it is difficult at times to distinguish between fact and western propaganda. Listening religiously to what the US has to say is a bit like believing everything you hear on fox news, there is an agenda there. That being said though, maybe the more ludicrous stories about haircuts aren't true but from the evidence that we do have it seems like a very cruel and oppressive regime to live under.
    I entirely agree, it is oppressive and offensive to human rights in a multitude of ways.

    In fact, I'd go further, and suggest that some of the spin is counter-productive, and antagonizes and lampoons the country, which then tries harder and harder to show the world it is willing to fight back.

    Politics is rarely so black and white. I do think there is a lot more going on in North Korea than despotic lunacy. I think the DPRK leadership largely believes it is offering an alternative, and preferable way of living than (what it sees, and I don't necessarily disagree with) a brutally unfair capitalist/ imperialist system of governance, with rampant inequality built into it.

    North Korea is surrounded on all sides by countries that have invaded it, and sees the US, a country which killed one quarter of its population in living memory, as the architect of global aggression, which has completely reneged on its 1994 agreement with North Korea. This isn't an unreasonable view to hold.

    And although it doesn't excuse the human rights abuses occuring in North Korea, I'd merely suggest that we view the actions of North Korea in its real context, instead of dismissing it as an unhinged little country under the thumb of a madman. Like I said, it isn't that simple.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    They have nuclear weapons because they spend disproportionately large amounts of the nations capital on military expenditure. Have you seen the NASA space image of the earth and north korea is the only completely dark nation on the globe(other than some lights in pyongyang)?Dont think you can put real life imagery down to western propaganda. Its war weapons are relatively advanced while the nations population lives in absolute poverty with little in the way of many human comforts, completely medieval infrastructure outside of the capital

    Aside from he fact you have citizens risking their lives to get out of the country and telling everyone about life inside, it sounds even worse than how western media portrays if anything


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wakka12 wrote: »
    They have nuclear weapons because they spend disproportionately large amounts of the nations capital on military expenditure. Have you seen the NASA space image of the earth and north korea is the only completely dark nation on the globe(other than some lights in pyongyang)?Dont think you can put real life imagery down to western propaganda. Its war weapons are relatively advanced while the nations population lives in absolute poverty with little in the way of many human comforts, completely medieval infrastructure outside of the capital

    Aside from he fact you have citizens risking their lives to get out of the country and telling everyone about life inside, it sounds even worse than how western media portrays if anything
    Can you see any possible rationale for North Korean militarism, considering what the United States did to that country in living memory? Considering that the US has rowed back on its military agreement with North Korea?

    I'm not defending militarism, but any discussion of militarism should probably begin with the most militarised, most agressive country on the planet.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Can you give us a run down of the Korean War?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    In fairness to our resident loony lefties, North Korea dropped any mention of Marx and Lenin from their 'constitution' a few years ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Can you see any possible rationale for North Korean militarism, considering what the United States did to that country in living memory? Considering that the US has rowed back on its military agreement with North Korea?

    I'm not defending militarism, but any discussion of militarism should probably begin with the most militarised, most agressive country on the planet.

    Well I think it should begin with the country that is spending so much on militarisation that it is to the detrement of the quality of life of its citizens (and thats an understatement)
    USA could spend less on it too and more on other beneficial infrastructure but it cant even be compared to NK


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    otto's dead...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Biggest lickspittle on boardz


    Otto Warbier has died following his mysterious coma state that occurred in North Korea. Murdering bastards.
    The American student who was released last week after being held in captivity for more than 15 months in North Korea has died, his family says.
    Otto Warmbier, 22, returned to the US last Tuesday, but it emerged he had been in a coma for a year.
    North Korea said botulism and a sleeping pill led to the coma, but US doctors have disputed this account.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40335169


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    spurious wrote: »
    There's a guy called Jaka Parker has an interesting set of videos on YouTube about North Korea. Not political as such, but an insight into life as a tourist.

    I've watched his videos and they are very informative but I'm more than a little suspicious of him. Surprised that an outsider has such freedom in Pyongyang. I know a few people who have been there and they weren't allowed outside of their hotel, which was on an island, without their minders.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    Otto Warbier has died following his mysterious coma state that occurred in North Korea. Murdering bastards.



    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40335169

    I really hope someone puts a bullet in Kim soon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    i think its unfair how every big hack is blamed on north korea .
    i,m not saying the north koreans dont try to hack usa websites or companys .
    But the seem to be blamed for most major hacking incidents .
    I think china and russia have more advanced hacking groups and north korea is at least 10 years behind russia in terms of technology.
    The internet in north korea is only avaidable to government employees.
    not to the general public.
    Even cuba has wifi and smartphones are sold to anyone who wants one .
    Its hard to have any sympathy for a government that sends people to labour camps for watching a western film on a dvd.
    in the 60s and 70.s russians could travel abroad as students or tourists
    to a limited extent, or watch european tv ,read western books,or watch western videos, thru items smuggled in to russia.
    Look at documentarys on north korea .its like going to a poor country in the 60s .
    The tv stations just broadcast political speechs or government propoganda .
    Ordinary people may not know what is going on in the rest of the world ,
    unless the watch western media smuggled in from other countrys .
    Even iran is more liberal than north korea.
    ordinary people can use the web ,even if many websites are blocked .
    china was maybe like north korea in the 60.s but it now has now moved on to a more moderate policy in regard to to trade and
    it does not have an agressive stance to the west or the united states .
    I don,t expect china to go to war with any western country .
    Theres 1000,s of people who are trained in china and russia and they have acess to the latest tech/ hacking techniques .


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    riclad wrote: »
    i think its unfair how every big hack is blamed on north korea .
    I think china and russia have more advanced hacking groups and north korea is at least 10 years behind russia in terms of technology.

    That could explain why the Norks are getting caught, and the Russians/Chinese are doing much better.


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ipso wrote: »
    Can you give us a run down of the Korean War?
    I'm no more going to give you a "run down" of the Korean War than any other undisputed event that is already well described in school-leaving textbooks in any civilised country, as is the case for the Bolshevik Revolution, World War 2, or indeed the Korean War. I am not Google, nor am I some secondary school history teacher. Do your own homework on the basics.

    If any of us are going to express an opinion, I think it's fair that we all assume that we have each bothered to make ourselves aware of the pertinent facts, right?

    It will come as no surprise to most normal-headed people, that any country which has been invaded by all of its neighbours within living memory, that any country which has had one-quarter of its population wiped out by the USA in living memory (which country reneged on a demilitarisation agreement), is entitled to take steps to protect itself.

    Let me be clear. North Korea is not entitled to pursue the path it has decided to take. It has flatly denied to its citizens a fundamental right to free speech and to control their own destiny. The DPRK is a paternalistic, authoritarian basketcase. Everybody knows that.

    But there is also a huge amount of pro-US propaganda surrounding media reports of North Korea.

    No, North Korea is not Hell on Earth.
    Yes, there are far worse basket cases.

    No, it is not devoid of democracy.
    Yes, it has a parliament.

    No, Kim Jong Un is not the all-powerful leader.
    Yes, he has an unprecedented shortage of power compared to his father and grandfather respectively.

    No, Kim Jong Un is not Head of Government.
    Yes, he is in charge of Defence. He is comparable to a Foreign Minister.
    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well I think it should begin with the country that is spending so much on militarisation that it is to the detrement of the quality of life of its citizens (and thats an understatement)
    That's a fair point. But you have to take into context that a country that has benefited economically from its military force (such as the USA) will naturally spend less (as a % of GDP) than a country which is extremely vulnerable to hostile forces on its borders, and which has suffered for reasons of economic and diplomatic sanctions.

    The fact remains, the USA is the most aggressive and militaristic state on this planet, which perpetuates the exact same hero-worship of its military as North Korea, except on a far grander and more elaborate scale, with blatant imperialist aims.
    otto's dead...
    I'm so sorry. I notice you used only his first name. Did you know him personally? My condolences to you and to your loved ones.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    was in north korea in 2009 for a few days. the OP is talking complete bollox.

    there is one party there, the workers party. if you want to live in the cities. then you have to be a member. there is nothing along the lines of an organised opposition. to say that it's democratic is just laughable. it's like saying Robert Mugabe was elected fair and square all those times.
    you are right in that kim jong un and kim jong il are not the head of state, since kim il sung is still regarded as President, although he lies in a glass box beside his son in the mausoleum.

    there isn't an equal society. the military comes first (probably why they have one of the biggest armies in the world) when it comes to food. then loyal party members.
    as for no cars on the streets from google maps satellite photos, it's because there are feck all. the top brass in the military went around in white VW passats. on the road between Pyongyang and Kaesong, we saw one other vehicle, which was the bus carrying the other half of the tour group. it was a 2 hour journey.
    in all public spaces, there were kids practicing for the Mass games, which, according to our guides, goes on every day for 6 months. in Kaesong, the public square had adults lined up listening to some guy on a megaphone. we weren't told what was going on, but they seemed too old for the games.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    was in north korea in 2009 for a few days. the OP is talking complete bollox.

    there is one party there, the workers party. if you want to live in the cities. then you have to be a member. there is nothing along the lines of an organised opposition. to say that it's democratic is just laughable. it's like saying Robert Mugabe was elected fair and square all those times.
    you are right in that kim jong un and kim jong il are not the head of state, since kim il sung is still regarded as President, although he lies in a glass box beside his son in the mausoleum.

    there isn't an equal society. the military comes first (probably why they have one of the biggest armies in the world) when it comes to food. then loyal party members.
    as for no cars on the streets from google maps satellite photos, it's because there are feck all. the top brass in the military went around in white VW passats. on the road between Pyongyang and Kaesong, we saw one other vehicle, which was the bus carrying the other half of the tour group. it was a 2 hour journey.
    in all public spaces, there were kids practicing for the Mass games, which, according to our guides, goes on every day for 6 months. in Kaesong, the public square had adults lined up listening to some guy on a megaphone. we weren't told what was going on, but they seemed too old for the games.

    Seen the pics. 1984 style brainwashing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Vincent Vega


    johnp001 wrote: »
    This film talks about the subject mentioned in the OP:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw-p84oWW84

    I found it very interesting to see a possible different interpretation of the subject of North Korea.

    Just wanted to point out that this isn't a real NK made documentary.
    Was made some filmmakers in New Zealand.

    It's kind of a pointed satire attacking western culture and it's use of media propaganda as a means of control.

    Brilliant film in any case. Well worth the watch.
    Here it is in full:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    biko wrote: »
    Screenshot_from_2017-06-19_15-41-19.png
    On a separate note, the DPRK is animated less by communism than by a weird something it refers to as Juche.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I'm not saying North Korea is some utopia, but how many of you have actually thought critically about how it is portrayed, and have sought a balanced reporting on North Korean political and social life?

    Have you ever considered that at least *part* of what you're swallowing may be propaganda?
    I was critical enough of coverage, and interested enough in the country anyway, to get up and go to the DPRK some years ago as ballsymchugh above has done.

    Nothing I saw there over the course of a week suggested for one moment that the portrayal of the country in media outlets with reliable journalistic standards - for example, the BBC - was in any way inaccurate or unreliable. In many ways, it was worse than what I'd heard - the sight of children panning for gold in small rivers, and armed guards sitting in raised huts guarding corn fields, being two things which still stick in my mind.

    The place is a hell-hole in all respects and if you think that there is anything admirable in the country at all beyond the bravery of the people who've escaped from it with their lives, then I politely suggest that you go there and see it for yourself :)


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    was in north korea in 2009 for a few days. the OP is talking complete bollox.

    there is one party there, the workers party. if you want to live in the cities. then you have to be a member. there is nothing along the lines of an organised opposition. to say that it's democratic is just laughable. it's like saying Robert Mugabe was elected fair and square all those times.
    you are right in that kim jong un and kim jong il are not the head of state, since kim il sung is still regarded as President, although he lies in a glass box beside his son in the mausoleum.

    there isn't an equal society. the military comes first (probably why they have one of the biggest armies in the world) when it comes to food. then loyal party members.
    as for no cars on the streets from google maps satellite photos, it's because there are feck all. the top brass in the military went around in white VW passats. on the road between Pyongyang and Kaesong, we saw one other vehicle, which was the bus carrying the other half of the tour group. it was a 2 hour journey.
    in all public spaces, there were kids practicing for the Mass games, which, according to our guides, goes on every day for 6 months. in Kaesong, the public square had adults lined up listening to some guy on a megaphone. we weren't told what was going on, but they seemed too old for the games.
    I always thought North Korea is one of the last places I'd want to live on this planet, but your description just shoved it up a few notches above Sudan, Libya, Palestine, Offaly and Ethiopia.

    No cars on the street? Heaven forfend.

    Kids playing sports in public spaces? Oh the depravity?

    Oh come on. Of course North Korea is not anybody's idea of a retirement village. It's a horrible, brutal, authoritarian dictatorship.

    But neither is it the worst existence on the planet. We have to stop thinking of politics as black and white. Those people who govern North Korea probably see themselves as offering a valid alternative to life under an arbitrary, cruel and inhumane system of government, just as we see ourselfves.

    That's all I'm trying to say. It isn't all black and white. We think we are right, and so do they. Lets not let orientalism obscure our view of political differences and indeed, propaganda, in our own country.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    That's all I'm trying to say. It isn't all black and white. We think we are right, and so do they. Lets not let orientalism obscure our view of political differences and indeed, propaganda, in our own country.
    You evidently have never visited the place and I would politely suggest that you drop by the place before airing any more uninformed views about it :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    I always thought North Korea is one of the last places I'd want to live on this planet, but your description just shoved it up a few notches above Sudan, Libya, Palestine, Offaly and Ethiopia.

    No cars on the street? Heaven forfend.

    Kids playing sports in public spaces? Oh the depravity?

    Oh come on. Of course North Korea is not anybody's idea of a retirement village. It's a horrible, brutal, authoritarian dictatorship.

    But neither is it the worst existence on the planet. We have to stop thinking of politics as black and white. Those people who govern North Korea probably see themselves as offering a valid alternative to life under an arbitrary, cruel and inhumane system of government, just as we see ourselfves.

    That's all I'm trying to say. It isn't all black and white. We think we are right, and so do they. Lets not let orientalism obscure our view of political differences and indeed, propaganda, in our own country.

    So your saying it's a horrible country but we should stop talking about it?.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    So your saying it's a horrible country but we should stop talking about it?.
    No, Militiades is claiming that because "we think we're right" that we should not criticize a military dictatorship which murders its own citizens for attempting to leave the country.

    Additionally, "orientalism".


  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So your saying it's a horrible country but we should stop talking about it?.
    Oh, not at all.

    I think North Korea deserves widespread condemnation, being as it is a force of international aggression. North Korea denies basic human rights to its citizens, deprives them of free speech, and deserves to be overthrown by its own people.

    But I would place the United States, the United Kingdom, most of the European Union, Russia and Australia far higher on the list of activists and conspirators towards international, ideological aggression than some Tom Thumb dictatorship like the DPRK.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,427 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    But I would place the United States, the United Kingdom, most of the European Union, Russia and Australia far higher on the list of activists and conspirators towards international, ideological aggression than some Tom Thumb dictatorship like the DPRK.
    Would I be right in thinking that you acquire the information upon which you base your political opinions from media outlets like RT, Sputnik News, Infowars and GlobalResearch.ca?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Victims? No not all.

    Authors of their own downfall is more like. The fact that the people can't or won't see Kim Jong Un for what he really is is worrying and baffling. How can they think the likes of what was done to Otto Warmbier is ok?

    They have only themselves to blame for the way the rest of us view.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 910 ✭✭✭BlinkingLights


    The biggest issue is that it's one place that needs the regime taken down by its own people as anyone else stepping in will likely cause war.

    I think though we need to also be careful here not to just ignore reports from defectors and exiled people who seem to all tell very similar stories of serious brutality.

    Humans can do really horrific things and the response of not believing the reports is pretty common. A lot of people didn't believe the Nazi regime was really doing the things it did because they seemed so insanely brutal it just seemed unimaginable. The reports from Cambodia were not taken as seriously as they should have been, the ethic cleansing in the Balkans wasn't assumed to be as bad as it was.

    Even in Ireland the reports of the famine were assumed to be political nonsense in the 19th Century by many. In the 20th century reports of various institutional abuse problems were ignored. Even the most recent issues from Tuam and the bodies in the underground tanks to many seemed too horrible to be possibly true, but they were.

    There's a need to filter US tabloid, gung ho, belicose stories but there's also a need to listen to accounts from people who've been there and not to just ignore evidence. There's something very, very wrong going on in North Korea. That's fairly evident at this stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,638 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I'm no more going to give you a "run down" of the Korean War than any other undisputed event that is already well described in school-leaving textbooks in any civilised country, as is the case for the Bolshevik Revolution, World War 2, or indeed the Korean War. I am not Google, nor am I some secondary school history teacher. Do your own homework on the basics.

    If any of us are going to express an opinion, I think it's fair that we all assume that we have each bothered to make ourselves aware of the pertinent facts, right?

    It will come as no surprise to most normal-headed people, that any country which has been invaded by all of its neighbours within living memory, that any country which has had one-quarter of its population wiped out by the USA in living memory (which country reneged on a demilitarisation agreement), is entitled to take steps to protect itself.

    Let me be clear. North Korea is not entitled to pursue the path it has decided to take. It has flatly denied to its citizens a fundamental right to free speech and to control their own destiny. The DPRK is a paternalistic, authoritarian basketcase. Everybody knows that.

    But there is also a huge amount of pro-US propaganda surrounding media reports of North Korea.

    No, North Korea is not Hell on Earth.
    Yes, there are far worse basket cases.

    No, it is not devoid of democracy.
    Yes, it has a parliament.

    No, Kim Jong Un is not the all-powerful leader.
    Yes, he has an unprecedented shortage of power compared to his father and grandfather respectively.

    No, Kim Jong Un is not Head of Government.
    Yes, he is in charge of Defence. He is comparable to a Foreign Minister.

    That's a fair point. But you have to take into context that a country that has benefited economically from its military force (such as the USA) will naturally spend less (as a % of GDP) than a country which is extremely vulnerable to hostile forces on its borders, and which has suffered for reasons of economic and diplomatic sanctions.

    The fact remains, the USA is the most aggressive and militaristic state on this planet, which perpetuates the exact same hero-worship of its military as North Korea, except on a far grander and more elaborate scale, with blatant imperialist aims.

    I'm so sorry. I notice you used only his first name. Did you know him personally? My condolences to you and to your loved ones.



    it is you that needs to educate themselves. the korean war started when the north invaded the south. the north were the aggressors. And it was UN military action that stopped them. you need to start reading better books.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    It probably helps that weed grows wildly and is legal (or as good as) in NK. Apparently, government agencies have sold some abroad in order to get foreign currency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    There must be something wrong with countries where everyone is doing Riverdance all the time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,672 ✭✭✭elefant


    The debate about every picture in the world, apart from one, of North Korea at night being doctored is priceless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I can understand a country like Cuba staying under communism for the reason that if the regime falls, the drug cartels will take over. Id rather live under communism than street by street turf wars for drugs.

    North Koreans has the choice of communism or what life is like in South Korean. It's an easy choice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,530 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    But I sometimes see people liking and sharing the most ridiculous (and sometimes, clearly false) stories about North Korea, with unstinting credulity.

    This is probably because the country produces extreme true stories
    First of all, the country is presented as being technologically mediaeval, despite the fact that it has nuclear technology possessed by only a handful of countries on the planet.

    It's not being presented as such - it is medieval. Most people are either in what we would consider extreme poverty or close to.

    The technology (like any third world country) is there, but it's selective. Only the wealthy and elites will have access. The country cannot afford nuclear tech, but leadership only pursues it to protect/preserve themselves and their way of life
    There is also the trope of dictatorship, when in fact Kim Jon Un is neither the Head of Government nor the Head of Parliament (yes, there is a parliament in North Korea)

    No trope, Kim Jong Un is the supreme leader, like his father and grandfather previously
    I also believe that Kim Jong Un would be a socialist icon if he had the dashing good looks of a young Che Guevara, but is instead reviled as a lunatic (but why?) despot because of his chubby appearance.

    He is reviled because he is a brutal leader, nothing to do with looks.
    Western media also seem to accept without question the testimonies of those who have fled North Korea

    The testimonies often corroborate each other. Due to the nature of the country not everything can be verified

    Also stop referring to it as "Western media", it's world media. S Korea is capable of propaganda in this regard - sources can be difficult to verify, but on aggregate much of what we know about N Korea is true


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