ESB home charger

Falcon L

Hi All, I am told that the ESB do a tidy job of installing the home charge point. Do they run surface wiring? How do they get the cable back to an internal fuse board?

If anyone has pictures of an installation where cabling has been taken from a fuse board on an internal wall, that would be helpful.

Thanks.

KCross

They do the job the same as any other electrician who would be fitting an external socket. It will be job/site specific as to how it is actually done.

e.g. Will the cable be exposed outside will determine whether SWA cable is required. Can you access the attic to run the cable back to the distribution board? How long is the run etc.

Until you get someone to look at your actual job you won't know how it will be done.

Falcon L

There is an external socket where the charger would be needed, but it's just a spur off a socket in the room behind it. I presume this would be left alone, and a new cable taken back to the main box in the house? The external socket is in a well sheltered car port, closed on 2 sides. No access via attic. Distance from the board to the point would only be a few meters.

Mrs L is very particular about wiring clipped in corners and for her it would be a deal breaker. In her view, the whole electric car idea would hinge on this. She's not really committed to the project in the first place, so such a small affair as exposed wiring would tip her over the narrow edge on which she is perched. She's normally leaning towards sustainable living as much as possible, but she's very unsure about these new fangled electric cars. :rolleyes:

Help me out here guys.

goz83

Tell her what she needs to hear. The rest is history :pac:

KCross

Falcon L wrote: »

There is an external socket where the charger would be needed, but it's just a spur off a socket in the room behind it. I presume this would be left alone, and a new cable taken back to the main box in the house?

Yes, new cable would be advisable as this isn't a phone you are plugging in and you could overload that spur.

You need 6sqmm cable on the basis that its a short run.

Falcon L wrote: »

The external socket is in a well sheltered car port, closed on 2 sides. No access via attic. Distance from the board to the point would only be a few meters.

It really depends on the layout of the walls. Is the distribution board at the back of the wall where the charge point would go?

You can drill a hole in the wall and have the cable hidden behind the charge point and up the wall on the other side but that depends on what is on the other side of that wall.


There is no magic here. The cable has to go from the charge point to the distribution board so you'd have to tell us what the layout is.

KCross

Falcon L wrote: »

There is an external socket where the charger would be needed, but it's just a spur off a socket in the room behind it.

Just reading that piece again. Any chance a new cable could be run through the same ducting in the socket in the room behind it. If you can fish a cable up that duct (they are usually tight though so maybe not) you might be able to do it that way.

Falcon L

I'm aware there is no magic solution, but you must remember that I have no experience whatsoever of what is involved. That is why I'm seeking some help from people on here who have had a point installed. For example: I have no idea at what height from the ground the point is normally mounted.

My main board in the house is on an internal wall close to a door out to the car port. If the unit was mounted at chest height on the external wall, it would only be 1m from the box. It seems that some level of exposed wiring is inevitable. Do they put it in trunking?

Sorry for the clueless questions, but I thought there would be friendly help available here.

Falcon L

KCross wrote: »

Just reading that piece again. Any chance a new cable could be run through the same ducting in the socket in the room behind it. If you can fish a cable up that duct (they are usually tight though so maybe not) you might be able to do it that way.

No, that wouldn't be a runner. The socket is fed through that white oval conduit stuff, buried in the wall, and heading up into the ceiling. It's a storey and a half bungalow, so no attic to go into.

KCross

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm aware there is no magic solution, but you must remember that I have no experience whatsoever of what is involved. That is why I'm seeking some help from people on here who have had a point installed. For example: I have no idea at what height from the ground the point is normally mounted.

My main board in the house is on an internal wall close to a door out to the car port. If the unit was mounted at chest height on the external wall, it would only be 1m from the box. It seems that some level of exposed wiring is inevitable. Do they put it in trunking?

Sorry for the clueless questions, but I thought there would be friendly help available here.

I thought I was giving friendly help!

Chest height is probably a tad too high but personal preference really. I'd say a little above waist height is where it needs to be at.


It sounds like you will be drilling the wall to get it out to the car port and then running the cable along the wall to where you want the charger point. It can and probably should be put in trunking.

oinkely

Figure out where you are going to put the charger, find the best route to the fuse board. Send the wife out to a spa for an afternoon, chase the wall so you can bury the cable and have it filled and plastered before she gets back.

Alternatively get a leaf with the standard 3.3 kw charger and a granny lead and just plug it into the existing socket to charge it. not as quick as a dedicated charger, but works fine for us on car number 2 or when we are at our caravan.

Falcon L

KCross wrote: »

I thought I was giving friendly help!

Chest height is probably a tad too high but personal preference really. I'd say a little above waist height is where it needs to be at.


It sounds like you will be drilling the wall to get it out to the car port and then running the cable along the wall to where you want the charger point. It can and probably should be put in trunking.

Yeah, you are. I wasn't having a go at you. Just rambling on, as I tend to do.

Right, good, now we're getting somewhere... waist height ish.

Is there any issue having the point right beside the door? If not, the route would probably be out the side of the fuse box > about 20cm to the inside wall > through the wall > down about 1m to waist height (ish). That would be about level with the front of the car, maybe 2m from the middle of the grille.

Does that sound about right?

KCross

Falcon L wrote: »

Yeah, you are. I wasn't having a go at you. Just rambling on, as I tend to do.

Right, good, now we're getting somewhere... waist height ish.

Is there any issue having the point right beside the door? If not, the route would probably be out the side of the fuse box > about 20cm to the inside wall > through the wall > down about 1m to waist height (ish). That would be about level with the front of the car, maybe 2m from the middle of the grille.

Does that sound about right?

Sounds fine. The cable from the charge point to the car is usually 5m.
If you can drill the wall from the inside out and get it just right there would be no cable showing on the outside.

The charge point does stick out from the wall quite a bit(6"+) and and the cable can stick out further again if its an untethered charge point with the socket forward facing. It will need to be a few feet away from the door to ensure someone doesn't come out the door and hit against it.

goz83

If you don't want the charger handle sticking out so much, you can use a bracket to mount it sideways.

unkel

You don't need to do anything! The esb contractor does a neat job, they use ducting too. Just make sure you supply the 6mm2 cable otherwise they will use 4mm2 which is not suitable for upgrading. Install is completely free too :cool:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Install is completely free too :cool:

Only if you buy a new car. Not sure if thats the case here. The OP didn't specifically say that.

Falcon L

OK, I think I'm a bit clearer now on what would be fitted and where. If the only issue beside the door is that someone might bump into it, I'll be OK as it's a straight out kinda door.

Thanks for the knowledge and the picture. Very helpful. I feel fully armed to bat away any and all objections to the charging point.

unkel

KCross wrote:

Only if you buy a new car. Not sure if thats the case here. The OP didn't specifically say that.

He does mention the esb though and they are only involved in free installations when you buy a new vehicle!

Falcon L

KCross wrote: »

Only if you buy a new car. Not sure if thats the case here. The OP didn't specifically say that.

Yeah, new. Looking at the Zoe or maybe the Ioniq. The Leaf reminds me too much of an old Megane around the arse end. Maybe the new shape will be better.:)

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

You don't need to do anything! The esb contractor does a neat job, they use ducting too. Just make sure you supply the 6mm2 cable otherwise they will use 4mm2 which is not suitable for upgrading. Install is completely free too :cool:

Nigel will run 6 sq if you ask him

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

He does mention the esb though and they are only involved in free installations when you buy a new vehicle!

The free wall charger is essentially a SEAI grant scheme. It's not the ESB that does the install , it's a contractor. ecars acts as a facilities

unkel

BoatMad wrote:

Nigel will run 6 sq if you ask him

He took some convincing and me providing the cable (thanks to people on this forum I came prepared)

unkel

BoatMad wrote:

The free wall charger is essentially a SEAI grant scheme. It's not the ESB that does the install , it's a contractor. ecars acts as a facilities

I know that. The parties in the contract are ESB and the new EV buyer though. Who pays for the installation and who does the actual work are irrelevant.

rocky

Colleague got a SH Leaf from a Nissan main dealer and got free charger install, I thought this was only for new cars?

KCross

rocky wrote: »

Colleague got a SH Leaf from a Nissan main dealer and got free charger install, I thought this was only for new cars?

The official SEAI funded scheme is only for new cars.

However, nothing stopping the dealer offering a charge point as part of a deal on a secondhand car but you can be sure it was added on to the price of the car.

thelikelylad

unkel wrote: »

He took some convincing and me providing the cable (thanks to people on this forum I came prepared)

He put in 6sq for me without much fuss.

Also, not sure if it's been shared here, but this doc is interesting for those looking to up the charging current. I wouldn't call it 'flashing', it's a simple config change. I haven't done it myself yet but it looks fairly straightforward.

unkel

thelikelylad wrote: »

He put in 6sq for me without much fuss..

I must have broken the ice (no pun intended)

We had a fairly robust discussion about it (well mostly about another issue), but he then did it without further fuss. Was a neat install too, no complaints here.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

I must have broken the ice (no pun intended)

We had a fairly robust discussion about it (well mostly about another issue), but he then did it without further fuss. Was a neat install too, no complaints here.

I asked Nigel for 6 sq and a 32A capable socket which the evse is plugged into

No issues and this was early 2016

NIMAN

Can I ask a general question re charging at home?

If I get an EV, does your charge point have to be linked directly to your houses fuse box? I have plugs in my garage, but it's detached from the house. I know little of electrics, but if there is power out in the garage is it easy enough for an electrician to install a wall mounted charge point?

Or would it have to be on the outside wall of the house near the fuse box?

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

Can I ask a general question re charging at home?

If I get an EV, does your charge point have to be linked directly to your houses fuse box? I have plugs in my garage, but it's detached from the house. I know little of electrics, but if there is power out in the garage is it easy enough for an electrician to install a wall mounted charge point?

Or would it have to be on the outside wall of the house near the fuse box?

It would depend on a few things.

- What amp rated charger you get.... 16A or 32A.
- What cable is feeding the supply to the garage

You can put the charge point wherever you want but it has to be fed from a cable that can take the current.

At a guess your garage probably does not have a sufficiently sized cable to take an additional 32A. 16A might even be too much if all you currently have in the garage is a light and a socket. You basically need to get an electrician to check the size of that cable feeding the garage and only then will you know whats required.

If the existing cable cannot take the extra load you would have no choice but to run another cable(6mm2 minimum) from the garage back to the distribution board in the house.

NIMAN

Thanks for that info.

My garage currently has 1 x 5ft fluorescent light, 1 x normal hanging bulb and 4 x double power sockets.

Not sure if that info will help.

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

Thanks for that info.

My garage currently has 1 x 5ft fluorescent light, 1 x normal hanging bulb and 4 x double power sockets.

Not sure if that info will help.

It doesn't really. The cable can obviously handle that load but the thing is can it handle an extra 16A or 32A. Impossible to know until someone eyeballs the cable.

e.g. No point in the car charging fine but then you turn on the light and a heater(or some other device) and the fuse tripping.

Do you think it would be difficult to pull another cable from the garage to the distribution board in the house? That would be the ideal scenario as you could pull a cable capable of supplying 32A and then future proof the charge point and make it independent of everything else in the garage.

unkel

Is it a new EV or a second hand one you're getting? The answer is different for both cases

NIMAN

It will be second hand. So all done at my own expense.

If I bought a leaf, it would be one with a 6.6 OBC.

goz83

Realistically, you will need to be running 6sq cable for tor a 32A CP to be installed. You would likely not be able to run more than the granny charger with the existing set up.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Is it a new EV or a second hand one you're getting? The answer is different for both cases

Why would that be? The only difference there is who pays for it. The technical aspects of how it will be done (which is what he asked) will be the same regardless.

NIMAN wrote: »

It will be second hand. So all done at my own expense.

If I bought a leaf, it would be one with a 6.6 OBC.

If you get a 6.6kW Leaf you should get a 32A charger and that will almost definitely require a new cable (6mm2 or 10mm2 if its a long run to the board).

Fermi

unkel wrote: »

You don't need to do anything! The esb contractor does a neat job, they use ducting too. Just make sure you supply the 6mm2 cable otherwise they will use 4mm2 which is not suitable for upgrading. Install is completely free too :cool:

Could you please explain me the benefit of using the 6mm cable?

KCross

Fermi wrote: »

Could you please explain me the benefit of using the 6mm cable?

There are two main charge point ratings... 16Amp and 32Amp. The higher the amps the faster the car charges (IF the car supports it)
e.g. a 3.3kW capable car will only charge at 16A. A 6-7kW capable car will charge at 32A.

The more amps the thicker the cable needs to be.

6mm2 cable allows you to run either charge point. The lighter 4mm2 cable won't support a 32Amp charge point.

rocky

Fermi wrote: »

Could you please explain me the benefit of using the 6mm cable?

Not burning down the house would be one

(in case you charge at 6.6kw+/32A)

Fermi

KCross wrote: »

There are two main charge point ratings... 16Amp and 32Amp. The higher the amps the faster the car charges (IF the car supports it)
e.g. a 3.3kW capable car will only charge at 16A. A 6-7kW capable car will charge at 32A.

The more amps the thicker the cable needs to be.

6mm2 cable allows you to run either charge point. The lighter 4mm2 cable won't support a 32Amp charge point.

OK Thanks, got it.

So obviously thinker the cable, more power it can handle. But, in the email ESB sent me they mentioned they install the 3.6kW charger and they do not do the 7kW. Does this matter?

KCross

Fermi wrote: »

OK Thanks, got it.

So obviously thinker the cable, more power it can handle. But, in the email ESB sent me they mentioned they install the 3.6kW charger and they do not do the 7kW. Does this matter?

The idea of pushing for the larger cable is that if you decide at a later date (say 5yrs from now) that you want a 7kW capable car and you want to upgrade your charge point it would mean running a new cable. Depending on your circumstances that could involve chasing walls etc.The cable is the only hard piece of the install.

The charge point itself is no more difficult than wiring a plug and just 4 bolts to the external wall so it can be done in "minutes".

So, yes, eCars will only install a 16A charge point(3.6kW) but if you get them to put in 6mm2 cable now it future proofs the install for you.A simply swap out of the charge point, no messing with cables, will allow you to double your charge rate.

And apparently the charge point that eCars install for you can be programmed for 32A so you might not even need to get a new charge point. You can simply reconfigure the one they install for 32A(as long as you have the correct cable in).

BoatMad

NIMAN wrote: »

It will be second hand. So all done at my own expense.

If I bought a leaf, it would be one with a 6.6 OBC.

a 16A can in theory be installed as a spur from a radial or ring , without a feed to the consumer board directly

A 32A feed will require a dedicated feed

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Why would that be? The only difference there is who pays for it. The technical aspects of how it will be done (which is what he asked) will be the same regardless.

For a new EV, the free EVSE will be wired directly to the consumer unit and will get its own RCBO. Without this (photographed, documented and signed-off), the contractor doesn't get his money from the ESB

For a second hand one, anything goes (as long as the sparks says it's ok)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

For a new EV, the free EVSE will be wired directly to the consumer unit and will get its own RCBO. Without this (photographed, documented and signed-off), the contractor doesn't get his money from the ESB

For a second hand one, anything goes (as long as the sparks says it's ok)

I don't get the distinction. Your local spark has to adhere to the same regulations as the ESB sub-contractor who is also just a spark as well. Taking a picture of the RCBO controlling it doesn't show the ESB anything about how it has been wired up (e.g. cable used, is it shared with other plugs etc) so anything your local guy can do the ESB can do too and still get paid.

So, I don't see how new or used really matters to the OPs question.

NIMAN

BoatMad wrote: »

a 16A can in theory be installed as a spur from a radial or ring , without a feed to the consumer board directly

A 32A feed will require a dedicated feed

I got an electrician to check the cable into my garage today. It's 6mm apparently.

Was telling him about a possible EV purchase, and a charge point around the garage area and he thinks it should be fine.

So if he was able to install it, I take it I could only get a 16A point? If so, would this be limiting for the future? How fast would that charge a 6.6 leaf?

Water John

It would charge at half pace. Full charge would be 8 hours instead of 4. The wall charge unit will dictate the max and the car will only draw that.

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

I got an electrician to check the cable into my garage today. It's 6mm apparently.

Was telling him about a possible EV purchase, and a charge point around the garage area and he thinks it should be fine.

So if he was able to install it, I take it I could only get a 16A point? If so, would this be limiting for the future? How fast would that charge a 6.6 leaf?

Most likely you can only get a 16A EVSE if you plan to share that cable with the existing lights and 4 sockets.

A 16A EVSE will deliver a max of about 3.6kW so thats your charge limit regardless of whether you have the 6.6kW OBC or not.

It is limiting for the future but you have to balance that against the costs of running another cable. Any idea how much pulling a new cable would be?

Maybe stick with the 16A for now and deal with it later when you know you actually need it. Maybe 16A will do you, depending on your mileage and usage profile.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Taking a picture of the RCBO controlling it doesn't show the ESB anything about how it has been wired up (e.g. cable used, is it shared with other plugs etc)

All of it is photographed and documented! I've seen them do it myself. If all the paperwork and pictures are not in order, they don't get paid. It's actually so bad that the ESB forbids them to use anything but an 16A RCBO.

I didn't believe the contractor when he told me that he is not allowed to put a 40A one in. While the contractor was doing the work, I was on the phone with the guy in ESB responsible for the EVSE program. He waffled and talked a lot of sh1te about people having 10kW cookers and 10kW showers and problems on the main fuse even though I told him I don't have anything in the house more powerful than my kettle. He refused to allow the contractor to use a 40A RCBO. Or in a word: verboten!

The only reason getting the free 16A EVSE upgraded to 32A is ridiculously expensive, is that the contractor gets nothing off the ESB for the 32A install