GGG V Canelo - Sept 16th( See First post for Info on How to Watch)

Morrison J

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

If you're basing that comment purely on their relative opposition I'd have to seriously disagree.

If you're talking ability, size, style etc. then that's an entirely different issue. Canelo has faced better opposition than Golovkin.

I'm talking size and all the variables that come with it eg power, strength etc. Canelo hasn't felt power in the same stratosphere as GGG's. He also isn't going to be able to outmuscle him like he can the Liam Smith and Amir Khan's of this world.

Physically, he's going into unknown waters entirely. The corpse of Chavez counts for nothing.

Mr.Ed wrote: »

Canelo's best win without doubt is Cotto who do you pick as Golovkins from that line up??

Not the version of Cotto he beat imo. I'd say Lara is his best win personally and it's very debatable whether he actually won that.

Danny Jacobs is GGG's best win. Completely outmatched physically and still came through.

Morrison J

Canelo Points

Aye the graphic is trying to demonstrate the step up in size not skill. Physically, this is a massive step up for Canelo.

megadodge

Canelo KO

pac_man wrote: »

I don't think the comparison of opposition comes into the equation. Canelo has boxed the bigger names but it means nothing if none of them are at middleweight.

In the context of the original post, I wasn't sure was it showing how 'great' Golovkin's opposition was compared to Canelo's, when the reality is Canelo would beat every one of Golovkin's opponents also, with the exception of Jacobs, which would be a 50/50 affair in my opinion.

I really like Golovkin, but his opposition has been nothing special and you have to wonder if his last two performances were not overly impressive simply because they might well have been the most skilled boxers he ever faced. He could also be on the slide. Who knows, but that's what makes this such an intriguing fight.

megadodge

Canelo KO

Morrison J wrote: »

Aye the graphic is trying to demonstrate the step up in size not skill. Physically, this is a massive step up for Canelo.

Golovkin is not a particularly big middleweight. I'd actually say he's quite small by modern middleweight standards.

Morrison J

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

Golovkin is not a particularly big middleweight. I'd actually say he's quite small by modern middleweight standards.

Aye but he's a bigger puncher than every other middleweight out there.

Canelo couldn't hurt Cotto who is the same size as Brook. Golovkin literally broke Brook's face. That's the step up we're talking about here for Canelo. It's massive in every sense.

snowflaker

Canelo Points

Excellent 24/7, definitely whet my appetite for Sunday Morning!!!

megadodge

Canelo KO

Morrison J wrote: »

Aye but he's a bigger puncher than every other middleweight out there.

Canelo couldn't hurt Cotto who is the same size as Brook. Golovkin literally broke Brook's face. That's the step up we're talking about here for Canelo. It's massive in every sense.

So, put simply, the fella with the more power wins?

Are you Walshie in disguise?

Morrison J

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

So, put simply, the fella with the more power wins?

Are you Walshie in disguise?

Power will be a massive factor as it is in all of GGG's fights yeah. It's not the only factor but I think I've broken down how I see this fight playing out enough times in previous pages.

I'm just saying in terms of the graphic, it really shows how Canelo has never felt anything like GGG's power or strength before. It's a massive variable going into this fight. Expecting him to take GGG's power despite the fact Canelo hasn't tested himself against anyone who can punch remotely as hard as him would have me worried if I was a Canelo backer.

He's going from feeling the punches of Liam Smith and Amir Khan to feeling the punches of the P4P biggest puncher in the sport. It's hard to do the size of the step up he's taking justice.

selectamatic

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

So, put simply, the fella with the more power wins?

Are you Walshie in disguise?

Considering that both men involved tend to get hit quite a lot (by elite standards) during a fight; power could well be the most important aspect of this fight.

Schwanz

Draw

No matter your opinion on the winner here, I'm very sure Boxing fans are ready and hoping for an absolute barn-stormer.

Fight of the year awaits imo and it's nice to see real warriors go at it for the good of the sport and not for the greasing of the palms by money.

megadodge

Canelo KO

selectamatic wrote: »

Considering that both men involved tend to get hit quite a lot (by elite standards) during a fight; power could well be the most important aspect of this fight.

Golovkin gets hit quite a lot. Alvarez doesn't. He has a very good defense, much better than Golovkin's.

mdwexford

Schwanz wrote: »

No matter your opinion on the winner here, I'm very sure Boxing fans are ready and hoping for an absolute barn-stormer.

Fight of the year awaits imo and it's nice to see real warriors go at it for the good of the sport and not for the greasing of the palms by money.

Yeah that's why they are going at it.

Good of the sport, don't think they're bothering with pay checks at all sure.

selectamatic

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

Golovkin gets hit quite a lot. Alvarez doesn't. He has a very good defense, much better than Golovkin's.

Alvarez does get hit. Especially against the ropes.
Smith hit him 115 times in 9 rounds. Khan won rounds against him. And they were two of his weaker opponents. He has a good defense, not a very good defense.

Genady gets hit for sure;
moreso than Canelo? Again yes.

but Canelo is hittable and saying he isn't is a false narrative.

yourdeadwright

Canelo KO

What is the best place to watch this on Sunday morning ?
Any good sites I could chrome cast it from ?

Sweet Science

mdwexford wrote: »

Yeah that's why they are going at it.

Good of the sport, don't think they're bothering with pay checks at all sure.

Take a day off

ThunderCat

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

Golovkin gets hit quite a lot. Alvarez doesn't. He has a very good defense, much better than Golovkin's.

GGG seems happy to eat shots in order to get close and get off shots of his own. If Canelo doesn't have the power to seriously discourage this then Golovkin walks him down and stops him in my opinion. When you also factor in how good Golovkins chin is then it could be a world of hurt for Canelo. Even after this fight I think Jacobs will still have been Golovkins toughest test.

megadodge

Canelo KO

selectamatic wrote: »

Alvarez does get hit. Especially against the ropes.
Smith hit him 115 times in 9 rounds. Khan won rounds against him. And they were two of his weaker opponents. He has a good defense, not a very good defense.

Genady gets hit for sure;
moreso than Canelo? Again yes.

but Canelo is hittable and saying he isn't is a false narrative.

Speaking of false narratives, could you point out where I said Canelo isn't hittable?

selectamatic

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

Speaking of false narratives, could you point out where I said Canelo isn't hittable?

Ah right so you mean he doesn't get "hit quite a lot", I wrongly took you up to mean he doesn't get hit. Apologies.

That's fair enough, I thought you were going down the path of extreme view points that this fight appears to be bringing out of some people.

nacho libre

Canelo KO

I feel Canelo win's this quite easily if he can take Golovkin's power. Canelo to me is the better boxer, but it maybe that he is ahead on points then gets stopped mid way through the fight. Gennady is either in decline, or not motivated, because in his last two fights he was quite easy to hit, but maybe that's because he knew his chin was good enough to take it. If you notice against Lemieux he wasn't as hittable, although that might due to Lemieux not being good enough to tag him clean.

megadodge

Canelo KO

selectamatic wrote: »

Ah right so you mean he doesn't get "hit quite a lot", I wrongly took you up to mean he doesn't get hit. Apologies.

That's fair enough, I thought you were going down the path of extreme view points that this fight appears to be bringing out of some people.

Fair enough.

We both agree then that this is a real hard fight to call. I can see reasons why both can win, but I just don't understand those who think it will be an 'easy' fight for either fighter.

selectamatic

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote: »

Fair enough.

We both agree then that this is a real hard fight to call. I can see reasons why both can win, but I just don't understand those who think it will be an 'easy' fight for either fighter.

Ay 100%, very hard one to call. I myself am leaning with a golovkin win with perhaps a late stoppage but by christ he'll have it well earned if he gets it. A close Canelo points win wouldn't surprise me either truth be told.

What would surprise me is Alvarez schooling ggg I just don't see that happening unless golovkin has aged massively and I don't think he has at all.

Especially seeing as the Jacobs fight was so good. It was a fight where momentum swung back and forth quite a few times and definitely in my mind wasn't close because of a poor golovkin performance (as is the narrative with some) it was close because Jacobs put in one of the best displays I've ever seen from him. Now detractors will say very few rated Daniel Jacobs before that fight but I feel he earned his praise rather than Gennady allowing him to flourish. He was in the form of his life and peaking physically too and still came up that touch short.

A real rip roaring contest is my wish and I hope it comes true as both men deserve the fame and cash a FOTY bout will bring.

hbhook

Canelo Points

The grand arrivals are happening right now on ringtv.com.

hbhook

Canelo Points

ze final press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zAwIXsXl1E

Morrison J

Canelo Points

megadodge wrote:

Fair enough.

megadodge wrote:

We both agree then that this is a real hard fight to call. I can see reasons why both can win, but I just don't understand those who think it will be an 'easy' fight for either fighter.

I don't think anyone is saying it's an easy fight for either fighter. I do think it's an easy fight to call though, if that makes sense.

Can't see the logic in favouring Canelo when he has so many disadvantages going into it. GGG has the size, accuracy, stamina, power, better jab, better feet, ring IQ and more proven chin.

Canelo is younger, throws flashier, probably more eye catching punches and has better head movement. What else?

Then there's the fact that we've no idea how Canelo will react to facing a real puncher. GGG has taken punches from way bigger hitters then Canelo. He'll have no problem taking that power. Can Canelo take GGG's best shots? Recently nobody bar a 180lbs Danny Jacobs has been able to (arguably without taking GGG's best shots) so I'd doubt it.

This reminds me so much of only recently when people starting picking Broner to beat Garcia. Boxing fans try to outsmart themselves sometimes. It's simple when you break it down imo. Nearly everything points to GGG winning this fight more times than not.

Gamebred

Any reason why Canelo looks drawn out and so pale making this weight? thought it would be a handy one for him.

Mr.Ed

Gamebred wrote: »

Any reason why Canelo looks drawn out and so pale making this weight? thought it would be a handy one for him.

Going by recent pictures he's put on a lot of muscle mass for this fight from his last fight vs Chavez and he had put on maybe 10lbs from his fight previous to that.

He never was a full fledged Middleweight really before maybe not still but all this added bulk may have backfired on him and he's having a tough time cutting back down

megadodge

Canelo KO

Morrison J wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying it's an easy fight for either fighter. I do think it's an easy fight to call though, if that makes sense.

Can't see the logic in favouring Canelo when he has so many disadvantages going into it. GGG has the size, accuracy, stamina, power, better jab, better feet, ring IQ and more proven chin.

Canelo is younger, throws flashier, probably more eye catching punches and has better head movement. What else?

Then there's the fact that we've no idea how Canelo will react to facing a real puncher. GGG has taken punches from way bigger hitters then Canelo. He'll have no problem taking that power. Can Canelo take GGG's best shots? Recently nobody bar a 180lbs Danny Jacobs has been able to (arguably without taking GGG's best shots) so I'd doubt it.

This reminds me so much of only recently when people starting picking Broner to beat Garcia. Boxing fans try to outsmart themselves sometimes. It's simple when you break it down imo. Nearly everything points to GGG winning this fight more times than not.

In relation to the breakdown of attributes I'll briefly give my opinion.
Size - GGG but not massively.
Accuracy - Canelo. GGG's is good too, but Canelo is ridiculously accurate once someone isn't literally running away from him like Lara did. If Lara had been more positive he would have won that fight, but then again maybe he would have been more in the line of fire and if Angulo could floor him twice....
Stamina - GGG clearly.
Power - GGG. But you constantly mention Canelo's "average" power, which is clearly wrong.
Jab - Equal. Both very good.
Feet - GGG. But as I've said Canelo is at his best when the opposition comes at him, so really the feet won't be a major factor here.
Ring IQ - Really cannot see why GGG's is supposed to be superior. Not being able to outbox Floyd Mayweather shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the Mexican with, which I suspect it is but you'll deny it.
Chin - Equal. I've never seen Canelo in any sort of trouble. But wait for it, somebody will misremember Cotto's brother yadda, yadda....

Canelo has faster hands and a better defense. I strongly suspect he will win the earlier rounds by simply being the better boxer, however, it's when it goes into the second half that the real fight begins. Can Canelo hold him off for the full 12 with his average stamina? That's the key for me. If Alvarez had top notch stamina I'd strongly fancy his chances.


If you check back on the Broner/Garcia prediction thread here, I believe every single poster bar one picked Garcia.

And finally, I wish you'd stop constantly mentioning Amir Khan and Liam Smith as if they're supposed to be the very best opponents Canelo has ever fought and he's making this huge jump in class for the first time. It's like me guaranteeing you if Golovkin takes punches from Canelo as flush as the one Daniel Geale caught him with he won't be KOing him in the same instance. Neither have any relevance to this fight.

normanoffside

GGG KO

I'd be more worried with GGG's weight issues than Canelo's. GGG was clearly a little tubby coming into this camp and I am not sure he has caught up. Looks like he is 4-5 lbs behind his normal check weights (30 and 7 day). He always struck me as a guy who was always in shape (like Hagler) but not this time.
Canelo is well aversed at cutting weight but GGG has never had to. In the latest press conference, GGG sounded a little dry in the mouth.

Ultimate Seduction

normanoffside wrote:

I'd be more worried with GGG's weight issues than Canelo's. GGG was clearly a little tubby coming into this camp and I am not sure he has caught up. Looks like he is 4-5 lbs behind his normal check weights (30 and 7 day). He always struck me as a guy who was always in shape (like Hagler) but not this time. Canelo is well aversed at cutting weight but GGG has never had to. In the latest press conference, GGG sounded a little dry in the mouth.

GGG has made 160 every single fight. I think he looks in better shape now than he ever has..

normanoffside

GGG KO

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

GGG has made 160 every single fight. I think he looks in better shape now than he ever has..

I have no doubt he will make 160. I just worry a little that he is having to work a little more than usual to make it, I don't think he has ever really had to 'cut' before unlike Canelo.