GGG V Canelo - Sept 16th( See First post for Info on How to Watch)

Maravilla33

Canelo Points

walshb wrote: »

I'd pick a heap of MWs over the past 40 years to beat him...

Take our own Steve Collins...how does GGG beat him?

He won't KO or stop him, that's for sure..

By outboxing him. GGG isn't all about power. He has a lovely jab, decent timing and shot selection, great chin, good stamina. I think he beats Collins handy on pts. I do agree vs Canelo he looked on the slide a bit and may be slightly past his best.

Agree with you he struggles vs many ATG MWs. I find the GGG vs Hearns fight you mention intriguing. Could Tommy dominate with his skills and jab, does he have the power at MW to deter GGG and like some of Tommy's other fights is it only a matter of time before GGG catches him.

Maravilla33

Canelo Points

Maravilla33 wrote: »

By outboxing him. GGG isn't all about power. He has a lovely jab, decent timing and shot selection, great chin, good stamina. I think he beats Collins handy on pts. I do agree vs Canelo he looked on the slide a bit and may be slightly past his best.

Agree with you he struggles vs many ATG MWs. I find the GGG vs Hearns fight you mention intriguing. Could Tommy dominate with his skills and jab, does he have the power at MW to deter GGG and like some of Tommy's other fights is it only a matter of time before GGG catches him.

Edit: struggles seems like a harsh choice of word. I think he has the tools to make most h2h matches interesting just that the competition is fairly elite

Henno30

Canelo KO

Press row scores

StringerBell

Canelo Points

Taken me a couple of days to digest my disgust.

Fight went more or less as I expected, GGG looking the better but Canelo did cope with the pressure and boxed well enough to be fair. He avoided getting hit clean too often and didn't fold when he did feel the power. For his part GGG just showed once again that he is basically made of steel. Also his conditioning is superb at 35 years of age, never stopped coming forward, looking to trade and pressure his opponent.

He was robbed of a win, yes, and the fight was a snapshot of the best and worst of boxing.

I hate this sport I love at times, what should have been a shining peak in the sport has again left a sour taste. I had it 116-112 for GGG, a comfortable nights work for him in terms of him never really being in any trouble of losing the fight, not able to get his man out, but a clear winner none the less. To have a 118-110 for either man is just plain ridiculous and that she scored the fight for Canelo in that manner is too stupid to be corrupt to be perfectly honest. She is just not up to the job, and given some of her previous cards it has been coming a long time.

I would view this fight as evidence GGG is on the slide too unfortunately, the amount of times he had Canelo against the ropes, or in a corner and allowed him use the same defensive half turn left and spin out of trouble was unreal, his corner even pointed it out to him at one point to change how he was throwing the straight right, make it more like a hook, even if he had taken a chance, taken a half step right himself after throwing a jab going for the follow up right Canelo was there every single time for it and would have been caught cleanly.

I think he was worried about the speed of the counters and the body shots early, I think he was comfortable enough toward the late rounds that Canelo didn't have anything to get him out of there with to go looking for a proper tear up. The GGG of old would have ended that I think, but with how well Canelo took the ones that did get through I am not certain either.

wonderfullife

The biggest problem for Canelo is the fact his power doesn't translate against natural 160lb'ers.

This is a great short video clip showing Canelo landing 3x picture-perfect overhand rights plum on the chin. It flattened Kirkland and Khan. GGG laughed it off.

https://twitter.com/BoxingBritain1/status/909873715655081984


As for the judging, MMA also uses the 10-point-must system and Luke Thomas did a pretty good breakdown on how a judge in good faith could end up with scores ranging from 50-45 for one guy to 49-46 for the other guy.

Basically if Mrs. Byrd was easily led by the crowd, I can easily see why she kept going for Canelo in razor-tight rounds.

Also, and this is important IMO:

Corruption doesn't necessarily mean handing over wads of cash in brown-paper-envelopes.

Boxing *mostly* still uses the practice where the promoters of the event pay everything to do with the judges for the fight. The athletic commissions decide the judges but they are getting paid by the promoters. It's not just the wages either - they pay the expenses on the hotels, the transport, the food, everything for the judges.

So, for example, Oscar de la Hoya might put up Mrs. Byrd in a $1,500-a-night hotel room as opposed to a $300 room. She might appreciate the nice room. He might lay on a Rolls Royce to shuttle her around as opposed to a Merc. She might like the nice car. These things can be in the back of her mind watching a fight. They shouldn't be but they can be.

There's so many implicit ways promoters can get judges to like them without ever sitting down and talking to them. If the athletic commission knows a promoter likes a certain judge, they'll tend to give them those judges. Then if a judge knows a certain promoter is going to treat them extremely well, it's only human nature to score a tight round in favour of that promoters fighter - do Oscar a good turn and get an even nicer hotel room next time.

There's nothing illegal or improper about doing all these little tricks because until boxing reforms its rules, it's always going to be the foxes guarding the hen-house. Leonard Ellerbe, Oscar de la Hoya, Eddie Hearn... name the promoter and you can be damn sure they'll know exactly how to legally butter up judges.

TL;DR - It's possible without alleging a direct fix to believe that any judge could be a) easily influenced by the pro-Canelo crowd and b) have a conflict of interest in the sense that the promoter treated them very well and they wanted to be assigned to the promoters fight again, so they score tight rounds in one direction.

snowflaker

Canelo Points

Apart from one wild scorecard I don't see what the issue is. A draw is a fair result.

Brief_Lives

Canelo Points

Any rematch announced?

yabadabado

Canelo Points

Wouldn't mind seeing GGG fighting Saunders but I doubt BJ has any interest bar all his **** talking online.GGG would take his head off and be nice to see him unify the division.

I have a severe dislike of Saunders .

Sweet Science

I had it 115-113 for GGG

We seen the best and worst of both fighters . Early on Canelo looked very sharp . When he stood in the centre of the ring early on he looked very much in control with some great body work . However he reverted back to going against the ropes getting a breather and by the mid rounds he just wanted to make the final bell . I did think he finished well though and won the last 2 rounds from memory.

GGG displayed his best and worst in the fight aswel . His ability to take shot and walk someone down is frightening . He is relentless and wears people down mentally and physically . However his boxing IQ and array of shots leaves a lot to be desired . He refused to go to the body instead throwing the same shots over and over again . 3 times a round Canelo escaped from the corner with one shuffle to the left. Amazing how easy it happened.

A great nights entertainment though have no issue with people seeing it a draw even though i think GGG won myself

walshb

Canelo KO

Sweet Science wrote: »

I had it 115-113 for GGG

We seen the best and worst of both fighters . Early on Canelo looked very sharp . When he stood in the centre of the ring early on he looked very much in control with some great body work . However he reverted back to going against the ropes getting a breather and by the mid rounds he just wanted to make the final bell . I did think he finished well though and won the last 2 rounds from memory.

GGG displayed his best and worst in the fight aswel . His ability to take shot and walk someone down is frightening . He is relentless and wears people down mentally and physically . However his boxing IQ and array of shots leaves a lot to be desired . He refused to go to the body instead throwing the same shots over and over again . 3 times a round Canelo escaped from the corner with one shuffle to the left. Amazing how easy it happened.

A great nights entertainment though have no issue with people seeing it a draw even though i think GGG won myself

Nice breakdown. GGG is just a tad slow and ponderous. Slow to get the shots off. I always felt this but it seemed more clear the other night.

I mean, take away the forward pressure and his work just wasn't all that good.

Slow to get the shots off, and the shots just didn't have any wow behind them.

Canelo's work was better, just that he couldn't sustain it.

Henno30

Canelo KO

Golovkin's disadvantage in handspeed is getting really obvious now. That combined with his lack of upper body movement severely limits his options offensively. What's keeping him up there is his jab, which is as good as you'll see at the moment, his very efficient footwork, and of course his chin. If his chin cracks he'll be done, but it's looking pretty solid for the time-being.

walshb

Canelo KO

Henno30 wrote: »

Golovkin's disadvantage in handspeed is getting really obvious now. That combined with his lack of upper body movement severely limits his options offensively. What's keeping him up there is his jab, which is as good as you'll see at the moment, his very efficient footwork, and of course his chin. If his chin cracks he'll be done, but it's looking pretty solid for the time-being.

What impressed me more from GGG than anything was his defence. I thought he would be hit clean a lot more. He blocked and parried and avoided a lot of Canelo's shots. His feet being key.

walshb

Canelo KO

wonderfullife wrote: »

The biggest problem for Canelo is the fact his power doesn't translate against natural 160lb'ers.

This is a great short video clip showing Canelo landing 3x picture-perfect overhand rights plum on the chin. It flattened Kirkland and Khan. GGG laughed it off.

The OR from the other night did not land on GGG near as flush and compact as the shot that took Kirkland out. You should see how GGG ever so slightly took the sting from it, as well as it being a little over extended in comparison to the Kirkland shot. Looked brilliant in real time, but slow mo it's clear that it landed a little short as well as GGG slightly pulling away from it.

The Khan KO shot was also a lot cleaner as regards connection.

Burial.

Canelo KO

LOL, Canelo's power is legit against any 160 lber, it just so happens Golovkin has somehow inherited Marvin Hagler's chin. Cinnamon could have replicated the Tommy Hearns punch on Duran and Golovkin still would probably be standing and nodding his head. Freakish ability to take a punch.

Morrison J

Canelo Points

Did Cotto inherit the chin of Marvin Hagler too? Canelo couldn't put a dent in him either. I think his power is very overrated and might be a problem when he faces big middleweights like Jacobs for example.

Morrison J

Canelo Points

walshb wrote: »

Henno30 wrote: »

Golovkin's disadvantage in handspeed is getting really obvious now. That combined with his lack of upper body movement severely limits his options offensively. What's keeping him up there is his jab, which is as good as you'll see at the moment, his very efficient footwork, and of course his chin. If his chin cracks he'll be done, but it's looking pretty solid for the time-being.

What impressed me more from GGG than anything was his defence. I thought he would be hit clean a lot more. He blocked and parried and avoided a lot of Canelo's shots. His feet being key.

Does the subtle things defensively very very well. Rarely gets the credit for it.

walshb

Canelo KO

Morrison J wrote: »

Does the subtle things defensively very very well. Rarely gets the credit for it.

Agreed, and would you believe it only hit me the other night. I never thought he was very poor defensively, just not as subtle and clever as he showed the other night. His feet on the prowl are always lauded, but it was his backwards/lateral movement when needed that really impressed me the other night.

I guess the opponent in front of you can bring out the best. He needed to be defensive and cautious and subtle, and he was.

walshb

Canelo KO

Morrison J wrote: »

Did Cotto inherit the chin of Marvin Hagler too? Canelo couldn't put a dent in him either. I think his power is very overrated and might be a problem when he faces big middleweights like Jacobs for example.

Canelo has average to above average MW power. Not a real banger IMO.

I'd rate it 7/10 at MW.

The Kirkland and Khan KOs are exaggerating the power buzz with him. He got full power and leverage in vs Khan at a beautiful angle hitting the sweet spot against a man who does not take a punch all too well, as well as being a smaller man.

Similar with Kirklnad, who was broken down up to that point, and the last shot was full connection and clean on a man who was ready to go.

walshb

Canelo KO

Oh, and I am not sure how GGG reacts to a Hearns bomb clean on the chin. The one that hit Duran.......and there are others...

Throw in G-man and Julian Jackson as well....

hbhook

Canelo Points

I'm seeing a report on BoxingScene that Golden Boy prefer an immediate rematch.Ugh. Idk, maybe it suits Golovkin seeing as he's getting up there. It would be great if he was carrying the WBO belt into a rematch next May.

Sweet Science

1.3 million ppv buys . Not too shabby considering when it fell

Ultimate Seduction

Shabby enough considering it was "the fight of the century" "the best against the best" bla bla bla

AJ v Vlad did 1.1 million in the UK alone.

Canelo v Chavez Jr did over 1 million

A flop.

Almost a full month after "the circus" which every boxing fan in the world watched.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Canelo Points

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Shabby enough considering it was "the fight of the century" "the best against the best" bla bla bla

AJ v Vlad did 1.1 million in the UK alone.

Canelo v Chavez Jr did over 1 million

A flop.

Almost a full month after "the circus" which every boxing fan in the world watched.

Hard to call it a flop.

I mean it generated more money than any UFC event in history. So really it's tough to call it a flop.

For the fight it was though it is a little disappointing though.

Burial.

Canelo KO

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Shabby enough considering it was "the fight of the century" "the best against the best" bla bla bla

AJ v Vlad did 1.1 million in the UK alone.

Canelo v Chavez Jr did over 1 million

A flop.

Almost a full month after "the circus" which every boxing fan in the world watched.

Reports that it won't break the Mayweather/Pacquiao record and given the MMA following that tuned in it makes your last statement redundant.

Sweet Science

PPVs are quite dear in the US.

Having to fork it 80 dollars 3 weeks after probably already doing it isnt easy . I think 1.3 million is good

Considering the most promoted fight in history didnt sell as well as they thought either


Think its the 4th or 5th boxing PPV that has sold over 1m this year - good going .

walshb

Canelo KO

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Shabby enough considering it was "the fight of the century" "the best against the best" bla bla bla

AJ v Vlad did 1.1 million in the UK alone.

Canelo v Chavez Jr did over 1 million

A flop.

Almost a full month after "the circus" which every boxing fan in the world watched.

In this shallow expectation-less mediocre world of entertainment and fame and value for money it was a "flop."

For those who value class, style and depth and realism it was far from a flop....It was a success.

Ultimate Seduction

What has this got to do with MMA or Ufc? It didn't sell well when you think of how other fights have done this year. I'm sure they were aiming for 2.5 - 3m buys

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Canelo Points

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

What has this got to do with MMA or Ufc? It didn't sell well when you think of how other fights have done this year. I'm sure they were aiming for 2.5 - 3m buys

I said its hard to call it a flop when it's outselling the top UFC event of all time.

1.3 m buys is relatively decent it s a pity it didnt do more considering the quality of the fight.

Ultimate Seduction

It did practically the same buys as Canelo v Chavez Jr. It's a flop for the promoters.

I didn't say the fight wasn't good, and I didn't say anything about MMA

walshb

Canelo KO

In terms of overall success with fighters not named Tyson, Oscar, Lennox, Manny, Holyfield, Floyd I think it did good numbers.

I am not sure but I don't think Tyson or Lewis topped 1.3 in any of their PPV fights....

Edit. Tyson and Holyfiled and Lewis did top 1.3 million PPV buys